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Jul 2, 2017
220
303
I agree that positive thinking is good and all, but some people would rather eat a cake full of shit then play Sandbox. It's not a preference to some people. They have been HEAVILY burned by it. I've been burned by Foot of the Mountains. Sandbox could be the hottest chick in the world but I'd still avoid it like Aids. I'm not even saying Sandbox is implented badly or even good for that matter in this game, merely that someone that hates it and thinks it's bad for the game isn't automatically a "10 year old child"
Sure thing man. Dev always want make this game with some sandbox mechanic but story is still most imporatnt for him. Mad king is not Lewdlab or Icstor with 10 000 $ per month. He make this game in his free time as hobby and chalange and he is open for any sugestion and opinion.
 

Content_Consumer

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2019
1,021
3,514
Grindy sandbox is a hard nope from me.

Screenshot_1.png

For example the above would take 4 years just to pay for itself ...
It gets worse;
Screenshot_2.png

10 years to pay for itself and making villages somehow doesn't contribute to increased population/growth, according to the "earnings" at least.

what a pointless waste of time that contributes basically nothing to the story telling.
As far as I can see, at max speed 1 day = 24 real life seconds, so 1 year is about 2.4 real hours. So if the project takes 10 years to pay for itself then you need to leave the game running for a full real day just to pay for itself.
The pinnacle of stupid design where to play the game you have to not play the game.

Alternately, anyone with even the slightest ability to use search can just fine out how to edit the save file and edit in the money and citizens so they don't waste their actual real life for no reason.

If devs want to see one of the few sandbox implementations that are tolerable when paired with an extremely compelling story then look at Love of Magic book 1.
I'm still not totally sold on the layout for book 2 but because I know how good book 1 was and because a regular choice based UI wouldn't work since LoM book 2 is actually much more of a game than a VN I'll accept it.
 
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Larry2000

Dev/Head Writer of Unexpected Opportunity
Game Developer
May 9, 2017
1,438
3,433
Sure thing man. Dev always want make this game with some sandbox mechanic but story is still most imporatnt for him. Mad king is not Lewdlab or Icstor with 10 000 $ per month. He make this game in his free time as hobby and chalange and he is open for any sugestion and opinion.
I'm glad you understand what I mean. As you said, I hope he gets the feedback he needs to continue. If it's deemed bad, maybe he strays away from it, if it's okay. Maybe he can improve it. And if it's best thing since sliced bread, then add more and more I say! But yeah, we need feedback to ascertain that information.
 

Gamle

Member
Dec 11, 2018
187
106
Has anybody been able to enable the edict "Building Estates"? For me it is blanked out and Im wondering if that depends on that it is not implemented yet, or if I need to enable some other edict first?? (other than the ones before in the same edict ofc, wich I have done). Was thinking of resources or smth.. :/

Edit. Just so you guys know, now I seem to be able to build it. I didnt build anything else but the roads, but I dont think it was that what triggered it, cause i couldnt build it directly after even if i did have the money. I think that the amount of money to build isnt 10k as it says but something more, or maybe there has to be a certain amount of time between builds.
 
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billyjoebobmartin

Active Member
Dec 8, 2020
733
861
Mad King

i feel like there's a huge oversight with using citizens as workforce and them not being taxable. i mean i understand soldiers being exempt, and that was stated... but workforce under royal employ? i would think their wages could be high enough to warrant taxation, if not head tax, then other taxes like sales, house/land ownership, etc.

i'm also under the impression that the population costs for industry should be lowered (by half or more). alternately population growth could be made easier, otherwise without slaves the player will be waiting on population growth more than coin... by a lot of wait time if they focus on economy first (which we should) unless salvery is used... a third option is farming and trade would directly affects population growth per upgrade. i'm thinking multiplicatively, so lvl 1 farming would double the weekly growth from 50 into 100, lvl 2 = 150, etc. with trade as well only affecting the base value and not stacking atop farming... unless we really need that high of a pop cap later on.

on the same topic, industry population requirements should become a locked population stat that until a decree is lifted thus can't be used for other things (but is still taxable), and tie into total population count that the kingdom can hold. might also mean the initial pop cap needs raised.

btw why does the kingdom look like it's isolated on an island? i'm very confused since it looked like the gate was directly facing inland during the battle scenes. yet via sandbox kingdom overview the city gate looks to be facing the ocean... also where are the docks in sandbox view?

i know that MC burned all the boats and/or ships... but once lumber industry is at lvl 1 i would think crafting some cheap (100 copper+) boats for early game sea trade for low cost low return should be a thing... actually, were none of the boats MC's mom was using belonging to the kingdom? i would think at least a few of them should... thus enabling sea trade from game start... or rather once you have ANY industry started to have goods to sell (probably including slaves).

what the hell was MC's dad doing in regards to kingdom management? the royal coffers only have 100 coppers initially... how the hell was he paying the few soldiers he had? much less any import taxes or even the imports themselves?!?!!

not going to bother with slaves myself since this sandbox seems grindy as all hell in terms of wait time, and it being something you can't enable without repercussions. which imo is REALLY dumb, since in medieval ages no one would care. or rather the few-to-anyone against slavery would still blindly accept and build relations with anyone who has outlawed it even if they used slavery priory, or even uses them currently but is being convinced to outlaw it. (take what you can get to further the ideal type thing)

lastly i'm not liking the sandbox thus far, it involves WAY too much waiting, in terms of replay-ability the type of sandbox bit your adding to this is... probably going to be VERY low. i encourage a turn-by-turn type sandbox over this. though i will admit this is quite innovative of you... but i don't think it should be a part of this game. it being it's own standalone thing would be better.

edit: also it seems the sandbox part itself lags after some time (a bit over an hour at max time speed for me) and needs to be saved/loaded or it slows to a crawl (no idea if it crashes after that... but i would assume so).
 
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Spyderwraith

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2017
1,194
939
after the implementation of the sandbox is there any other interactions with anyone else outside of Julia?

I'm already into day 3 of this waiting for the time to pass and i have not found a button to skip the entire week to get money- only the up arrow which very slowly and with what appears to be lag ups the time of day.
I would highly recommend an easier way or a more visible button that lets you skip entire swaths of time. the current waiting period will grow old quite quickly.

I would also suggest a "skip to story button" that will give you options to skip to the next relevant story progression with a character"

Thirdly- i would almost consider having this sandbox kingdom management game as a side download to the main game- as innovative as it seems it should be a separate download in my opinion- let the people who enjoy playing Civilization play Civilization and people who enjoy VN play VN separately

Edit: as i keep thinking of things to add as constructive
The other issue with Sandbox is we now need a dedicated quest log- one that specifically gives us step by step instructions on how to unlock scenes
having an ambiguous "if you do this it will change how you interact with characters" isn't enough.
Quest 1: get income up to 500 reward: new scene
quest two: get income up to 1000 reward: new scene

or something like that.
As it stands now people will get tired of doing random shit until something triggers. And will be constantly wondering if they missed something or whatever

edit two: A general rule of thumb- individuals who frequent websites like this and play games of this nature usually, and i say usually, because I don't speak for everyone, but they usually don't like when Math is placed into the game as a factor that you need to begin thinking about in grand detail. So this management system that says in the tutorial "remember royal soldiers don't get taxed and you have to pay them money"
I'm already having flashbacks to advanced Calculus in High School. That will make me run away quicker than a rock thrown at a hornets nest.

edit three: i know it';s generally frowned upon to discuss other games on here in the forum of someone else but. to the point of giving players choice, if you're really wanting to give this sandbox idea a shot there is a game called " The DeLuca Family" on here, that Dev has Sandbox and VN options. He set it up so that for folks that want the sandbox element can choose Sandbox and the ones who play VN and only want VN to choose VN
I would suggest a system like that where you give people a choice. this way you can keep doing your sandbox kingdom idea and the VN

Edit 4: The only time in the game it tells me the days of the week is the introduction tutorial of the sandbox- I've already forgot what days of the week correspond with whatever equivalent cypher word- and have not found any mention of a way to go back to that screen that translates the days of the week- (the question mark book makes no mention of these changed days of the week either) Add this to the in game tutorial so that there is a way we can go back and check it. Or make something that automatically translates the day of the week when you hover over the mouse on the day of the week section
 
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Pinsel

Active Member
Dec 25, 2019
821
729
I am enjoyned this Game, als long ist stayed as VN, but now i can not anymore. I was burnt by too many sandbox games or VNs who turn in sandbox. Sry. wish you luck with your game and i will miss Morrigan and the sound of this amazing game. But i am out now. pace
 

ohhiimfox

Active Member
May 24, 2018
527
1,963
Liked the game... until sandbox got inside it. good luck with ur game Dev but i'm out.

Edit: IDK why Dev's go for Sandbox modes.. it's like AAA Games going for "Open World" you can have the best story the best characters. this Sandbox/Open World bullshit just ruins the story and the pace of the story in my eyes. Witcher 3 is a good example story says "Hey you gotta Hurry and find your "daughter" but at the same time the games says Oh boy here you have 1million sidequest that you can do... Ruins the pace of the story completely...!

Same is it with the Sandbox mode in this AVN Genre.. you can work your butt off with the story and characters. the game will not be same with Sandbox.
 
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GamleErik89

Member
Sep 13, 2018
365
947
I was hyped till I read the changelog and saw this:
- First part of the sandbox, implemented. This contains the economic engine, day/night cycle, edicts, brothel, and the army management.
I am sick and tired of fucking sandbox everywhere, as it usualy turns otherwise great games to shit when added post establishment. I have yet to find a sandbox game that is actually enjoyable. Doable and ok, yes, but not good, great or awesome. It can have the greatest models, backstories, and main plot ever, but adding sandbox usually equals out the game to an "Ok at best" rating, and "bug riddled garbage etc." at worst. I'll nope the fuck outta here, especially after reading that the same shit grind is present here too, despite claims otherwise. Reading that an interactive game based on immersion is being run in the background. This is bad. Really bad.:cautious: I've been burned enough by post establishment sandboxes.


PS:Someone ping me if it actually turns out to be as "grindless" as claimed. Or the sandbox suddenly got redacted...:HideThePain:
 

Content_Consumer

Well-Known Member
Dec 24, 2019
1,021
3,514
I was hyped till I read the changelog and saw this:
I am sick and tired of fucking sandbox everywhere, as it usualy turns otherwise great games to shit when added post establishment. I have yet to find a sandbox game that is actually enjoyable. Doable and ok, yes, but not good, great or awesome. It can have the greatest models, backstories, and main plot ever, but adding sandbox usually equals out the game to an "Ok at best" rating, and "bug riddled garbage etc." at worst. I'll nope the fuck outta here, especially after reading that the same shit grind is present here too, despite claims otherwise. Reading that an interactive game based on immersion is being run in the background. This is bad. Really bad.:cautious: I've been burned enough by post establishment sandboxes.


PS:Someone ping me if it actually turns out to be as "grindless" as claimed. Or the sandbox suddenly got redacted...:HideThePain:
Love of magic probably has the best sandbox design I've seen as it actually make sense due to how the game/story is designed.
99% of sandboxes though are a total waste of time and this one is probably the worst I've ever seen.

You literally have to leave the game running, while not actually playing it just to accumulate money and citizens.
either that or just edit the save so you don't have to ever wait for anything.
 

Carefree247

Member
May 24, 2019
310
636
screenshot0003.png

Hell, even I'd weep with joy having a HOT crazy yandere GF around.

The sandbox element is bugged with the income and happiness since I have not generated income besides raiding my bigoted neighbor.
 
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Ellioto

Active Member
Sep 26, 2017
519
279
ohhh cool its been a while since this was updated, is there any new sister stuff? forgot her name but the one that reminds me of yennefer lol
 

jish55

Well-Known Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,739
3,922
So I'm on the fence with this latest update. I love the game, but at the same time, the sandbox REALLY needs work. Like perhaps if the dev implemented the sandbox as a side menu and not something we're forced to stare at, it could work far better. Also as others have said, it's WAY too grindy, like to such an insane degree that after 5-10 minutes of staring at it, I said screw it, saved the game, and shut it off.
 
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