VN Ren'Py Onhold We Were Just Kids [v0.3b] [MissFortune]

[Surplouf]

I post my opinion here and not in the review for two reasons:

1) This is only a opinion and not a formal review.
2) Giving the chance to respond if no agree with me.

I begin with the only negative point. In this story all female character are lesbian or bisexual. Only the teacher look straight. And how she do to know the orientation of people she see the first time 2 minutes ago?

This point have to be corrected because not realist. Give time to the characters to meet before sex.

This is a minor point.

The people knowing me know the sex scenes is not the most important for me but the story.

Yesterday i was bored and desperate to find something new. I see, in the update section, We were Just Kids. The render looks good and i decide to give it a try without expectation.

Surprise to discover one of the better storytelling artwork i find in this site since 5 years.

The author know how telling is story and is it at a rare level. From now i do not talk about a game but at literary work.

One of the best use of flashback i read since long time. I strongly suspect MissFortune to have a literacy formation i can not believe she is a beginning amator.

The sex scene are most closed to a good erotic scene than porn. Nothing irealist like anal fucking a girl meet 10 minutes agos. All scene have a link with the story, except the first in the park. This is a great quality.

The actual writing is really good. Is alredy a good script for a tv serie (Movie cut too much good stuff in is 2 Hour format). Only need few technical indication like the description of the place. He is already good for the screen.

Have a surprising blend of different style in the story. The narrative look inspired by the film noir movie. The construction by the young adult or musical classic movie like Breakfast Club, The Commitment or Trainspotting. Story how young adult discover the adult world. A great work of quality and creativity for the dialog. I see a touch off Ms Robinson in The Graduate with Dustin Hoffman. This level is really rare in the world of game we can find here.

Need a formation or a really big general culture to make a work of this quality and sure talent.

A hint for the quality:

I read and watch film and series a lot in my life. This is give me the capacity to guess a plot with a really good efficiency. Only in the 2/3 of the actual story i can begin guess what is coming and is only a guess. I do it a long time before generally.

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.

This message is already long. I do it short.

We were Just Kids as a really good surprise for me. This story is solid like diamond. You are ready to sell our soul to have the balance of the story not already show.

I suggest it strongly for this reasons.

 

[Nurikabe]

There's a lot of fair criticism here, honestly.

Transition's are a tricky one for me. Because I don't want to do a lot of hand-holding for the viewer or make it feel like I'm spelling it out for a grade-schooler, and while you're right about just tossing the viewer head-first into a new scene with no context is quite jarring, I find it difficult to strike a balance and end up leaning back toward the latter as I expect the viewer to pick up rather quickly as the context is usually obvious in and of itself. Short of scenes (flashbacks, etc.) where I purposely throw viewers blindly into something.

I try to throw in clues and undertones where I can. Sometimes they don't come right away or aren't completely obvious (and I understand that the waiting between updates makes this hard from a memory perspective.), but they're meant to not drop in anyone blind, as to tell what the next step for said character is. Luca calling hacker (Melissa) > hacker tells Luca that April is there > Luca on plane looking at an old picture of them > Goes to their home > Dinner with April. > Briton. I do realize this probably isn't the best way of going about it within what is essentially an episodic-esque format with months in between each new 'episode', so to speak. Just have to add it to the list of many things I can still improve on.

As for the women, at it's root, I feel that's more rooted in the women I've been around. It's not so much in the testosterone, but in that they have strong personalities. They're rough, grating, come on way to strong, hit like Holyfield, but they're there. Might be a little much, but I'd honestly have a hard time writing the shy, nerdy girl-esque character as I've just never really been around it. It'd feel surface, at best, if I tried. There should be more diversity in character design, and in hindsight, I might've gone a little ham on the piercings/tattoos/etc. But it is what it is now. And nothing's wrong with pretty guys. -__-

Rick Astley is love, Rick Astley is life. <3 (insert meme about being traumatized by rick rolling here.)

I thought I would take a moment to explain a bit more explicitly, and without the snark, what it means that I find most of the women to be aggressively masculine and the men to be so feminine that I couldn't tell if they were gay or straight, male or transmale. And a little about handholding. Reading back through it, I may have said more than I intended. But I hope it is received in a good place... I know the dev is making changes as we type. These are just thoughts as I replayed...again. This VN has a way of seeping into my mind at all hours. I think about it too much! It is what it is! Ok! OK. I am slowly backing away from the keyboard. (Really enjoy this VN.)

Spoiler: To save space and time for those who TL;DR

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[NakkiMuki]

I’ve never been a multiple protagonist fan. And at least this game doesn't improve the situation. It always goes into a situation where I press down on another protagonist and if there is a woman, then the woman is the one who gets nothing. Same in this game.

Positive

• graphics are ok
• The characters aren't the most used in these games and it's a nice variation.

Negatives

• two MCs
• Two overlapping stories are a hell of a mess.
• when there are two MCs, in my case the story of the other one is completely useless. Its material could have been used for that one MC story alone. That is, completely useless work to do that second MC.
• Someone said Female MC is helping Male MC get a harem. At least it doesn't look very much like that. In fact, she constantly gets some dating requests or the opportunity to share herself with others. My playing is not about lesbians and I don’t give a woman any chance anywhere to do anything if only possible. I don’t want to watch others fuck and I don’t want to see lesbians. The only way a Female MC gets something is if it turns to another MC. And it’s not possible for me to play Female MC in this game because I kind of connect it to the NTR side when there’s also Male MC in the game and it’s always Main MC for me.

Hopefully...

• Harem will start showing himself in the following versions.
• Female MC pointing towards male MC.
• Nothing is forced on a player to do or watch. So there should be choices. Just like now.
• you do not have to start each update from the beginning

 

[Deleted member 24136]

Three MC's are way too many.

Shame though , hope it gets a Rework.

Good Luck Dev.

 

[SamualHand]

I’ve never been a multiple protagonist fan. And at least this game doesn't improve the situation. It always goes into a situation where I press down on another protagonist and if there is a woman, then the woman is the one who gets nothing. Same in this game.

Positive

Negatives

So all negatives of the game are what you don't like. So it's a good game, just not your taste? Good graphics, good story, writing, nothing to complain. Maybe the issue in front of the monitor?

 

[OldMoonSong]

Writing is good, visuals/style and renders are good, most characters look good, but plot-wise there is way too much going on.

There are a few cases I saw where default character names are being used.

Also, on the subject of default names in general, if we're going to be given the option to rename characters, I'd prefer never to even see the default name--including in the renaming prompt.

Just "Enter a name, or leave blank for a default name", NOT "Enter a name, default is _____".

I have actual family members with names used here, so it's already tainted in my mind. Yeah, it's a "me" problem but whatever, it isn't a big ask and there's no reason NOT to delay info on default names until they're relevant (someone saying "I don't want to name them").

My 2 cents.

 

[Nurikabe]

Writing is good, visuals/style and renders are good, most characters look good, but plot-wise there is way too much going on.

There are a few cases I saw where default character names are being used.

Also, on the subject of default names in general, if we're going to be given the option to rename characters, I'd prefer never to even see the default name--including in the renaming prompt.

Just "Enter a name, or leave blank for a default name", NOT "Enter a name, default is _____".

I have actual family members with names used here, so it's already tainted in my mind. Yeah, it's a "me" problem but whatever, it isn't a big ask and there's no reason NOT to delay info on default names until they're relevant (someone saying "I don't want to name them").

My 2 cents.

I am the opposite. I typically have to click forward to learn what the character was named and then click back and rename if I don't like the name that was used. The level of annoying is a lot. I deal with it because, after all, it is just a little annoyance on my part. By "default names," I assume you mean the 3D character's given name when created. Not sure why using those names would ever be an issue if the author likes the name and wants to use it in the VN. Most people have no idea what character asset is being used and what its name is.

I do understand that seeing a name you recognize as a person in your life can be a bit off-putting and challenge your immersion at first. It typically does not take long to see the character as its own entity. Having pre-named characters is also nice when discussing the VN. Avoids the use of saying things like the FMC's BF, the red-headed skinny girl, etc.

Similarly, I often see complaints about using character assets without modifying them. Or using the same character asset as <insert the name of some other VN the player saw once>. Again, I do not see the issue. First, the high-quality characters are rare. Sometimes, you want a specific look and that character is it. Many times, that character is considered a favorite of the developer. Assets are expensive. And lastly, I do not see how that would be any different from the same Hollywood stars playing roles in numerous different movies.

 

[MissFortune]

I’ve never been a multiple protagonist fan. And at least this game doesn't improve the situation. It always goes into a situation where I press down on another protagonist and if there is a woman, then the woman is the one who gets nothing. Same in this game.

Negatives

• two MCs - Taste. You knew that going in. It was in both the tags and overview. You can't go labeling that a negative knowing full well that you were getting it.
• Two overlapping stories are a hell of a mess. - You've gotta pay attention. Speed-clicking/skipping through a protagonist you don't like is asking to get lost in a story with multiple moving parts. As I've already said, I'm not going to hold the player's/viewer's hands through it. Stuff that's supposed to be obvious is obvious, stuff that's supposed to be vague is left vague (for that moment in the story.).
• when there are two MCs, in my case the story of the other one is completely useless. Its material could have been used for that one MC story alone. That is, completely useless work to do that second MC. - Again, taste. Sometimes a story demands different approaches in telling it. I'm writing it in a way that feels natural for me, and with a layered storyline like this, it'd be nearly impossible to write a single pov/protagonist without leaving vital information out. Thus, either leaving the viewer clueless as to what's going on or dumping a wall of information on them. Neither is a hill worth dying on when I have plenty capable alternatives.
• Someone said Female MC is helping Male MC get a harem. At least it doesn't look very much like that. In fact, she constantly gets some dating requests or the opportunity to share herself with others. My playing is not about lesbians and I don’t give a woman any chance anywhere to do anything if only possible. I don’t want to watch others fuck and I don’t want to see lesbians. The only way a Female MC gets something is if it turns to another MC. And it’s not possible for me to play Female MC in this game because I kind of connect it to the NTR side when there’s also Male MC in the game and it’s always Main MC for me. - And that someone will eventually be right. What I'm doing is expanding the replay value by offering multiple LIs, and thus different endings/scenes. For both protagonists. Irregardless, the female MC can turn them all down. Nearly nothing is forced on the player. Even then, any attractive girl/woman is going to get asked out frequently. She'll have the chance to get with the male protagonist soon, but it's going to be a natural progression.

Hopefully...

• you do not have to start each update from the beginning - I've been rebuilding the code/variables. 0.4 (post-rewrite and re-render) should be the last time users will have to start over. Even then, holding down the ctrl/cmd key for a minute or two isn't going to kill anyone.

Therre's a lot taste-based critique here, and a fair bit of assumption. Some of which I've iterated more than a few times. Comments in orange.

Three MC's are way too many.

Two.

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but plot-wise there is way too much going on.

There are a few cases I saw where default character names are being used.

Also, on the subject of default names in general, if we're going to be given the option to rename characters, I'd prefer never to even see the default name--including in the renaming prompt.

Just "Enter a name, or leave blank for a default name", NOT "Enter a name, default is _____".

I have actual family members with names used here, so it's already tainted in my mind. Yeah, it's a "me" problem but whatever, it isn't a big ask and there's no reason NOT to delay info on default names until they're relevant (someone saying "I don't want to name them").

There's an overarching theme throughout, which should be obvious by the cutscenes/monologues. Predeterminism, fate, time, if and how everything is connected. It's on a larger scale for that reason. Everything is connected. Everything is a result/consequence of an action made by yourself or another. As big is the world may feel, it's small.

My bad about the default names, but it's bound to happen a couple times in nearly 7,200 lines of dialogue and code. Thanks for pointing it out.

I don't get the 'never even see the default name' point. How is the player expected to know what the said name is if they leave the default? That's straight up illogical. If you're already having trouble following the story, then what makes you think you could just have a name tossed at you without ever seeing it? How is the player supposed to know it's the default name for that character and not someone else being called in the background?

As far as having people related to you with the same name? Sucks, but not really my problem. I don't have any control over what people are named or who you're related to. If it presents that much of an issue, extract all the files and change the name of the characters yourself. It's a relatively simple process.

 

[OldMoonSong]

I don't get the 'never even see the default name' point. How is the player expected to know what the said name is if they leave the default? That's straight up illogical. If you're already having trouble following the story, then what makes you think you could just have a name tossed at you without ever seeing it? How is the player supposed to know it's the default name for that character and not someone else being called in the background?

You don't, let me further explain the default name point. It's actually much simpler than I think you may have interpreted it as.

I prefer to name the MC in the games I play. Seeing the 'default' name before even being given the option to name the character--to me--is experienced as "This person's name is ____ but you can rename it if you want" which is an entirely different message than simply "Would you like to name this character?" The difference being the notion that there's a "correct" or "canon" name for the MC. People who like to immerse themselves in the story would prefer to avoid the 'default' name idea altogether, but to see 'default = _____' is kind of like breaking the 4th wall in that regard. It's a seam in the immersive experience.

How is the player expected to know what the said name is if they leave the default?

By just leaving the name input blank, thereby saying "I don't want to name the character, I'll keep the default one, whatever it is." A prompt, for example:

> Prompt 1: "Define our protagonist's name (or leave blank for a default name)"

> Option A) leave blank

> Outcome: "Protagonist's name is Logan" (default)

> Option B) enter name "OldMoonSong"

> Outcome: "Protagonist's name is OldMoonSong"

In this scenario, we only learn the default name if we decide we don't want to rename the character (option A).

As opposed to the existing prompt:

> Prompt 2: "Define our protagonist's name (default is Logan)"

The difference being that in prompt 1, we don't have the opportunity to not know the default name. It can't be un-known, and that first association can stick with you, particularly if you have personal ties or associations with that name.

Knowledge of the default name is not required to decide whether or not we want to name the character ourselves. If we choose option A, then decide we don't like the default name (or have personal reasons to change it or are uncomfortable with the name for personal reasons), then we can just scroll back up to instead take the path of option B and name them ourselves.

If you're already having trouble following the story, then what makes you think you could just have a name tossed at you without ever seeing it?

I didn't say I couldn't follow the story, I said there was too much going on. I get that it's all connected by themes and the plot lines will eventually intersect in what will no doubt be interesting and dramatic ways, I was just saying there's a lot. Hopefully my explanation above illustrates that the 2nd half of this quote isn't actually an issue.

 

[vueenx12]

A game with a lot of goth chicks? MY MAN! It was amazing. Couldn't wait for more!

 

[Deval67]

I'm enjoying it so far. Loving the style and characters. The "multiple MCs" aren't a problem.

 

[Hordragg]

I prefer to name the MC in the games I play. Seeing the 'default' name before even being given the option to name the character--to me--is experienced as "This person's name is ____ but you can rename it if you want" which is an entirely different message than simply "Would you like to name this character?" The difference being the notion that there's a "correct" or "canon" name for the MC. People who like to immerse themselves in the story would prefer to avoid the 'default' name idea altogether, but to see 'default = _____' is kind of like breaking the 4th wall in that regard. It's a seam in the immersive experience.

There is no Schrödinger's cat here; all characters do have a canonical name, whether you learn it or not. The second half of your paragraph is invalidated by my liking to immerse myself in the story while being perfectly fine with the concept of canonical names. To me, the concept of naming characters is breaking the fourth wall.

By just leaving the name input blank, thereby saying "I don't want to name the character, I'll keep the default one, whatever it is." A prompt, for example:

> Prompt 1: "Define our protagonist's name (or leave blank for a default name)"
[…]
> Prompt 2: "Define our protagonist's name (default is Logan)"

The difference being that in prompt 1, we don't have the opportunity to not know the default name. It can't be un-known, and that first association can stick with you, particularly if you have personal ties or associations with that name.

Knowledge of the default name is not required to decide whether or not we want to name the character ourselves. If we choose option A, then decide we don't like the default name (or have personal reasons to change it or are uncomfortable with the name for personal reasons), then we can just scroll back up to instead take the path of option B and name them ourselves.

See, those prompts are shitey: non-immersive phrasing with parenthesis to boot. My personal preference are statements coupled with pre-filled input fields – using the default argument of renpy.input. Basically something like

This is your best friend Michael Long

So people like me can simply accept that fact and move on, while others can take their time to step out of the story, changing the last name…

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But that's just me.

 

[OldMoonSong]

all characters do have a canonical name, whether you learn it or not

This is simply untrue. Many games will prompt the player for a name without a default one. Examples: Being A DIK, Summer's Gone, Sunshine Love, Echoes of Lust, many more.

The second half of your paragraph is invalidated by my liking to immerse myself in the story while being perfectly fine with the concept of canonical names

What I call "immersing myself" is more like self-insertion into the game. If you like the concept of canonical names, that's more of a voyeuristic experience--you aren't the MC, you're a witness. Both preferences are totally valid, they're just different.

those prompts are shitey: non-immersive phrasing with parenthesis to boot

Those obviously are not meant to be the actual usages, I wrote them that way to CLEARLY illustrate the differences of information exposure between each "philosophy" of name determination. Any extra detail or effort in making the examples "immersive" would distract from the actual purpose of the example--to illustrate how to prompt a user for a name without explicitly calling out what the default name would be. See the forest behind the tree, my guy


I won't clutter the comments with any further discussion on default name preferences as it's getting off-topic, but I'll just reiterate that there's a lot in the game that I enjoyed--writing, visuals, characters, and the fact that the dev is clearly ambitious and taking on a big narrative which itself is distinguished from the typical AVN.

 

[estrada777]

Updated Android port. Nothing too fancy but let me know if you have any issues.

Version: 0.3 + WT/Gal Mod by scrappy
Size 311 MB

Spoiler: Features

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This unofficial port/version is not released by the developer, download at your own risk.

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(if it gives you a .zip, just rename it as .apk)

Appreciate my porting? Leave a Tip! You're supporting my efforts, paying for storage, and encouraging more ports!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Updated my android port!

 

[Hordragg]

This is simply untrue. Many games will prompt the player for a name without a default one. Examples: Being A DIK, Summer's Gone, Sunshine Love, Echoes of Lust, many more.

What I call "immersing myself" is more like self-insertion into the game. If you like the concept of canonical names, that's more of a voyeuristic experience--you aren't the MC, you're a witness. Both preferences are totally valid, they're just different.

Going by your initial statement about there being names of your family members being used I assumed you were talking character name changes in general, not solely the MCs'. So, point taken. As for the self-insertion: I don't need a character to carry my given name to 'be' them. Having wildly different characteristics (gender, age, build) can prove much more of a hindrance in my book.

Those obviously are not meant to be the actual usages, I wrote them that way to CLEARLY illustrate the differences of information exposure between each "philosophy" of name determination. Any extra detail or effort in making the examples "immersive" would distract from the actual purpose of the example--to illustrate how to prompt a user for a name without explicitly calling out what the default name would be. See the forest behind the tree, my guy

I won't clutter the comments with any further discussion on default name preferences as it's getting off-topic, but I'll just reiterate that there's a lot in the game that I enjoyed--writing, visuals, characters, and the fact that the dev is clearly ambitious and taking on a big narrative which itself is distinguished from the typical AVN.

Seeing as we're discussing the merits of different ways of implementing naming of the MCs in the context of this game, I do believe us to be very much on-topic. One proper solution to cater to both our preferences would be to present a choice (first-run, preferences dialogue) about whether or not the game should use default names. The actual naming could be styled like I described above with the input field either being empty or set to the default. Still needs a bit of work on looping and resetting the default if the field is cleared, but the general idea should satisfy most if not all.

Edit: Spelling.

 

[JRN]

does any one have just the WeWereJustKids-32.exe file

I'm missing one

 

[Claire R.E.]

does any one have just the WeWereJustKids-32.exe file
I'm missing one

 

[JRN]

Thank you very much.

 

[evetoyou]

Man, hearing Alissa in Arch Enemy makes me miss her in The Agonist. Wish AE would take advantage of her cleans more.

word! I'm extremely bored of AE. I was excited for it initially but it's just gotten dull, knowing what kind of range she has.

I've not played 0.3 yet (just found out about it!) but so far I've not really had any problem following the story, nor the couple of MC's - but then I do play for the story, though prefer female MC's, it's not any kind of dealbreaker. Excited to give 0.3 a go, as this is my one go to AVN to keep up with.

 

[MissFortune]

Thanks. Whenever I allowed 32bit in the distribution for any of the versions, it was causing Defender to flag it. Obviously, it was a false positive, but I really wasn't into hearing a bunch of people repeatedly bringing up how their AV flagged the VN as some sort of Trojan despite it being uploaded by the dev himself.