VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[Deleted member 327695]

While the models look absolutely stunning in the remake, NTR wise, the story seem to be a downgrade. I denied Miru sex like 4 times in a row but she didn't even flirt with other guys at all or seem frustrated. No one tried to make a move on her as well.

How worthless Miru would be if she started flirting with another character just because you denied her sex four times.
That's exactly the reason why this game was in such bad need of a rework. (Besides other glaring issues.)

What sense does NTR make if the character is an absolutely untrustworthy bag of trash, that cheats on you the second you dare to deny sex?


But don't blame the player, blame the game.

And the game is a sea of uninspired games with GFs/wives that fuck everything the second the male part did something not to their liking.
Or even worse, a girl that loses all her brain cells because she saw a big dick.

Hollow female characters that are just fuck props.


I'm taking a completely different approach. Who cares if some slut with a shrimp personality cheats on you?

At this rate, not sure how long will it be before we can see another dick enter her.

It will take a very long time until that happens. At least in a cheating scenario.

If that's not to your liking and you prefer a girl like "Anne" from TAC, then this game isn't for you.

The previous story was much better.

The story is something entirely different.

It's a plot in Miru's sea of plots that are currently being built.


Every single thing you mentioned is a positive remark. Thank you.

 

[M3lly]

How worthless Miru would be if she started flirting with another character just because you denied her sex four times.
That's exactly the reason why this game was in such bad need of a rework. (Besides other glaring issues.)

What sense does NTR make if the character is an absolutely untrustworthy bag of trash, that cheats on you the second you dare to deny sex?


But don't blame the player, blame the game.

And the game is a sea of uninspired games with GFs/wives that fuck everything the second the male part did something not to their liking.
Or even worse, a girl that loses all her brain cells because she saw a big dick.

Hollow female characters that are just fuck props.


I'm taking a completely different approach. Who cares if some slut with a shrimp personality cheats on you?



It will take a very long time until that happens. At least in a cheating scenario.

If that's not to your liking and you prefer a girl like "Anne" from TAC, then this game isn't for you.



The story is something entirely different.

It's a plot in Miru's sea of plots that are currently being built.


Every single thing you mentioned is a positive remark. Thank you.

So right now we are at chapter 2 and there is still 0 sign of any build up for NTR no matter how bad you treat Miru. Where are you going with this? I am not even talking about something so extreme like TAC. But there has to be some form of build up right?

I admit I was getting a little impatient and I understand that you want the story to be as realistic as possible. I still don't think the previous story was that bad and really enjoyed it though.

 

[sorco2003]

How worthless Miru would be if she started flirting with another character just because you denied her sex four times.
That's exactly the reason why this game was in such bad need of a rework. (Besides other glaring issues.)

What sense does NTR make if the character is an absolutely untrustworthy bag of trash, that cheats on you the second you dare to deny sex?


But don't blame the player, blame the game.

And the game is a sea of uninspired games with GFs/wives that fuck everything the second the male part did something not to their liking.
Or even worse, a girl that loses all her brain cells because she saw a big dick.

Hollow female characters that are just fuck props.


I'm taking a completely different approach. Who cares if some slut with a shrimp personality cheats on you?



It will take a very long time until that happens. At least in a cheating scenario.

If that's not to your liking and you prefer a girl like "Anne" from TAC, then this game isn't for you.



The story is something entirely different.

It's a plot in Miru's sea of plots that are currently being built.


Every single thing you mentioned is a positive remark. Thank you.

Query on this topic:
Will all NTR routes follow more or less the same logic?
Because reading that a certain character is going to have the longest NTR path, the first thing that came to my mind is that maybe that character could use jealousy as a way of punishment or to call attention.
Although she will probably be the one who has more "endurance" in the face of mistreatment, lies and deceit....

 

[Old Man Al]

So right now we are at chapter 2 and there is still 0 sign of any build up for NTR no matter how bad you treat Miru. Where are you going with this? I am not even talking about something so extreme like TAC. But there has to be some form of build up right?

I admit I was getting a little impatient and I understand that you want the story to be as realistic as possible. I still don't think the previous story was that bad and really enjoyed it though.

I think you have the wrong expectations here.
I am pretty sure WIAB will be a marathon, not a sprint. So my guess would be that nothing is happening fast here - which means in the end everything that happens with a long foreshadowing will have WAY more impact than in your average VN. And that is something really refreshing imo.
Most VNs feel rushed, especially when reaching the end. And THIS ruined several VNs that I liked til just before the end.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Query on this topic:
Will all NTR routes follow more or less the same logic?
Because reading that a certain character is going to have the longest NTR path, the first thing that came to my mind is that maybe that character could use jealousy as a way of punishment or to call attention.
Although she will probably be the one who has more "endurance" in the face of mistreatment, lies and deceit....

preach brother preach

I may not know anything about NTR but I know ocean is a once-in-a-lifetime genius and a brilliant Storyteller

I speak for everyone in the off-topic Forum when I say we're all lucky to have him

 

[PashafromRussia]

How worthless Miru would be if she started flirting with another character just because you denied her sex four times.
That's exactly the reason why this game was in such bad need of a rework. (Besides other glaring issues.)

What sense does NTR make if the character is an absolutely untrustworthy bag of trash, that cheats on you the second you dare to deny sex?


But don't blame the player, blame the game.

And the game is a sea of uninspired games with GFs/wives that fuck everything the second the male part did something not to their liking.
Or even worse, a girl that loses all her brain cells because she saw a big dick.

Hollow female characters that are just fuck props.


I'm taking a completely different approach. Who cares if some slut with a shrimp personality cheats on you?



It will take a very long time until that happens. At least in a cheating scenario.

If that's not to your liking and you prefer a girl like "Anne" from TAC, then this game isn't for you.



The story is something entirely different.

It's a plot in Miru's sea of plots that are currently being built.


Every single thing you mentioned is a positive remark. Thank you.

Should we expect girls in the game who have become prostitutes to pay gas bills?

 

[Deleted member 327695]

So right now we are at chapter 2 and there is still 0 sign of any build up for NTR no matter how bad you treat Miru. Where are you going with this? I am not even talking about something so extreme like TAC. But there has to be some form of build up right?

Correct.

At the moment, nothing is more important than building a fundament for each of the characters, including Miru.
This is the wrong time to think about NTR.

The thought or desire to do someone else doesn't just form overnight. (In a relationship, and actually risking said relationship.)

As the story and characters progress on their journey through WiAB. They'll be confronted with their own feelings and beliefs.

And I think it's also worth mentioning that there's not just "Cheating NTR.".
Because cheating NTR needs the biggest amount of build-up to make it believable.

Sharing, swinging, etc. you can introduce comparably fast.


It has become quite a rumor that only by treating people bad you'd get NTR.
That's one way to get it.

But not the only way.
Lots of tiny decisions that build up on each other over time can lead to something similar. This involves neutral decisions from the MCs side.
Every character watches the story through their own lens. Keep in mind, they don't have your point of view.

Treating Miru badly at the moment would just make her think that you're having a bad time.

My focus lies on building a meaningful story, that also includes the NTR part of the game.

It might take a lot longer... But when it happens, you'll never forget it.

Query on this topic:
Will all NTR routes follow more or less the same logic?
Because reading that a certain character is going to have the longest NTR path, the first thing that came to my mind is that maybe that character could use jealousy as a way of punishment or to call attention.
Although she will probably be the one who has more "endurance" in the face of mistreatment, lies and deceit....

No, not all of them.

Personalities are different, and so is the past that defined each and every one of them.

Miru's route is quite different from the others, just because she's your girlfriend.
Others like Leia are single.

It's also not always about "punishment", etc.
Sometimes said person didn't act with any bad intention at all. They were just living their life without knowing it'd hurt someone... Or not caring, as they've got their own life to live.

preach brother preach

I may not know anything about NTR but I know ocean is a once-in-a-lifetime genius and a brilliant Storyteller

I speak for everyone in the off-topic Forum when I say we're all lucky to have him

Thank you Vidal, but that's going a little too far and makes me feel a little uncomfortable.

I'm just a dude who creates story games with adult elements.


At the moment, I'm nowhere near a Patrick Rothfuss.

 

[jaw1986baby]

If people want to know the problem with having ANY level of NTR they only need to look at those clamoring for it here in this thread. They don't care about character progress or mild levels that might make sense. They always want to jump straight to a line of dicks fucking a main LI/GF like Miru.


They are not compatible with any intelligent story

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

While the models look absolutely stunning in the remake, NTR wise, the story seem to be a downgrade. I denied Miru sex like 4 times in a row but she didn't even flirt with other guys at all or seem frustrated. No one tried to make a move on her as well.

The previous story was much better. At this rate, not sure how long will it be before we can see another dick enter her.

View attachment final_636be4c67fb1ee001704f1f2_675655.mp4

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

How worthless Miru would be if she started flirting with another character just because you denied her sex four times.
That's exactly the reason why this game was in such bad need of a rework. (Besides other glaring issues.)

What sense does NTR make if the character is an absolutely untrustworthy bag of trash, that cheats on you the second you dare to deny sex?


But don't blame the player, blame the game.

And the game is a sea of uninspired games with GFs/wives that fuck everything the second the male part did something not to their liking.
Or even worse, a girl that loses all her brain cells because she saw a big dick.

Hollow female characters that are just fuck props.


I'm taking a completely different approach. Who cares if some slut with a shrimp personality cheats on you?



It will take a very long time until that happens. At least in a cheating scenario.

If that's not to your liking and you prefer a girl like "Anne" from TAC, then this game isn't for you.



The story is something entirely different.

It's a plot in Miru's sea of plots that are currently being built.


Every single thing you mentioned is a positive remark. Thank you.

Oceanlab please don't listen to these fools they're just looking for a quick fap

believe me the rest of us love this game and the story your telling

keep up the great work

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

Correct.

At the moment, nothing is more important than building a fundament for each of the characters, including Miru.
This is the wrong time to think about NTR.

The thought or desire to do someone else doesn't just form overnight. (In a relationship, and actually risking said relationship.)

As the story and characters progress on their journey through WiAB. They'll be confronted with their own feelings and beliefs.

And I think it's also worth mentioning that there's not just "Cheating NTR.".
Because cheating NTR needs the biggest amount of build-up to make it believable.

Sharing, swinging, etc. you can introduce comparably fast.


It has become quite a rumor that only by treating people bad you'd get NTR.
That's one way to get it.

But not the only way.
Lots of tiny decisions that build up on each other over time can lead to something similar. This involves neutral decisions from the MCs side.
Every character watches the story through their own lens. Keep in mind, they don't have your point of view.

Treating Miru badly at the moment would just make her think that you're having a bad time.

My focus lies on building a meaningful story, that also includes the NTR part of the game.

It might take a lot longer... But when it happens, you'll never forget it.






No, not all of them.

Personalities are different, and so is the past that defined each and every one of them.

Miru's route is quite different from the others, just because she's your girlfriend.
Others like Leia are single.

It's also not always about "punishment", etc.
Sometimes said person didn't act with any bad intention at all. They were just living their life without knowing it'd hurt someone... Or not caring, as they've got their own life to live.






Thank you Vidal, but that's going a little too far and makes me feel a little uncomfortable.

I'm just a dude who creates story games with adult elements.


At the moment, I'm nowhere near a Patrick Rothfuss.

okay okay you're not a genius but at least can I say that you're very nice

 

[NebulousShooter]

How worthless Miru would be if she started flirting with another character just because you denied her sex four times.
That's exactly the reason why this game was in such bad need of a rework. (Besides other glaring issues.)

What sense does NTR make if the character is an absolutely untrustworthy bag of trash, that cheats on you the second you dare to deny sex?


But don't blame the player, blame the game.

And the game is a sea of uninspired games with GFs/wives that fuck everything the second the male part did something not to their liking.
Or even worse, a girl that loses all her brain cells because she saw a big dick.

Hollow female characters that are just fuck props.


I'm taking a completely different approach. Who cares if some slut with a shrimp personality cheats on you?



It will take a very long time until that happens. At least in a cheating scenario.

If that's not to your liking and you prefer a girl like "Anne" from TAC, then this game isn't for you.



The story is something entirely different.

It's a plot in Miru's sea of plots that are currently being built.


Every single thing you mentioned is a positive remark. Thank you.

Correct.

At the moment, nothing is more important than building a fundament for each of the characters, including Miru.
This is the wrong time to think about NTR.

The thought or desire to do someone else doesn't just form overnight. (In a relationship, and actually risking said relationship.)

As the story and characters progress on their journey through WiAB. They'll be confronted with their own feelings and beliefs.

And I think it's also worth mentioning that there's not just "Cheating NTR.".
Because cheating NTR needs the biggest amount of build-up to make it believable.

Sharing, swinging, etc. you can introduce comparably fast.


It has become quite a rumor that only by treating people bad you'd get NTR.
That's one way to get it.

But not the only way.
Lots of tiny decisions that build up on each other over time can lead to something similar. This involves neutral decisions from the MCs side.
Every character watches the story through their own lens. Keep in mind, they don't have your point of view.

Treating Miru badly at the moment would just make her think that you're having a bad time.

My focus lies on building a meaningful story, that also includes the NTR part of the game.

It might take a lot longer... But when it happens, you'll never forget it.






No, not all of them.

Personalities are different, and so is the past that defined each and every one of them.

Miru's route is quite different from the others, just because she's your girlfriend.
Others like Leia are single.

It's also not always about "punishment", etc.
Sometimes said person didn't act with any bad intention at all. They were just living their life without knowing it'd hurt someone... Or not caring, as they've got their own life to live.






Thank you Vidal, but that's going a little too far and makes me feel a little uncomfortable.

I'm just a dude who creates story games with adult elements.


At the moment, I'm nowhere near a Patrick Rothfuss.

While I wholeheartedly agree with you and your direction, at least from what I've played and how you explained your intentions so far, my guess is that you build your game's popularity on people like him. You had to at least expect them to feel, no pun intended, cheated, right?

Feels a bit like what Hollywood is doing with adaptations and remakes right now, take an established IP, keep the recognizable brand and character names and tell an entirely different story than the fanbase expects it, then blame them for reacting badly. Just my 2 pfennig.

 

[Turret]

Just my 2 pfennig.

Special thumbs up for you mentioning real money!

 

[Deleted member 327695]

While I wholeheartedly agree with you and your direction, at least from what I've played and how you explained your intentions so far, my guess is that you build your game's popularity on people like him. You had to at least expect them to feel, no pun intended, cheated, right?

Feels a bit like what Hollywood is doing with adaptations and remakes right now, take an established IP, keep the recognizable brand and character names and tell an entirely different story than the fanbase expects it, then blame them for reacting badly. Just my 2 pfennig.

I get your point and would agree with it.
If I had released the rework with no word about its changes to the NTR approach. (It's not just the NTR, but the approach to all relationships.)

But besides mentioning it on Patreon multiple times when the rework was still just a draft, I also explained the new approach to a lot of people here in this thread over the past years.

And I don't know what else I could've done besides mentioning it here, on Discord, and on Patreon multiple times.

There's always gonna be someone that misses the news and gets upset.

 

[Vixen ♀]

Hey Ocean, couple questions if don't mind me ask and that if I may, since it also involves more or less with SG in same universe or so.
1) While I like minimal, I respect your choice to not divide in such chaotic branches (meh when comes to think of) and less at same time keep as long constraint on the story plot. Have you considered adding certain mini games and/or more freeroam realism (like chat with them, do game night, funky with them, etcetera) whereas befriend to maintain entertainment suspense on par with adult elements? Doesn't necessary have to change with perspective on the story visual. I feel like, even without lewd this slowburn was still not enough to be felt wholeheartedly and in comfort zone with these characters or just missing something out. I guess that's why Naomi/Miru are there? Touche

2) Do you expect to hope or intend that relationship progress to be ambient and affective in a certain way with consequences when the story progress too? e.g. after college, mid-college semesters, home, outside, heated drama whereas in any area. I can only imagine that my feelings as MC would change in a unspeakable pathways and so does that with friendship, chapter after chapter, coping mechanics is definitely intriguing here.
3) In terms of storytelling, will be doing renewed interest and exposure flashback memories of antagonists during in near foreseen future? For some actions, that might remind past of choices MC made back then/now to let aside past destiny. Mistakes are not meant to be sinned repeatable

Now this is more of non-related but it kinda of goes this way,
4) Would both games be released anytime soon for official platforms such as Epic, Steam, GOG distributions? Have you in mind going for exclusivity if up to it?
5) If it's in process of Beta, have you considered opting out for early access or maybe just a [Beta] depot branch next to public release if comes to that?
I don't expect indefinite answer to these or whatever if you don't have legitimate answers yet and that's totally fine by me. Just want to let know I would be buying only that's fair that I've enjoyed with upmost joy of your game(s) as of rework and of course, in supporting you to continue doing so your vision towards AVN.

Moin, mit Liebe

 

[Euron13]

Ok .. why is there a NTR toggle? There is nothing even close to that in the game. I remember that the first version got some, but here I cant see anything. But maybe I missed something.

I wouldnt mind Miru getting some fun on her own without the MC knowing. Especially when you can say no to sex with her.
I dont really care about her, because she is way to perfect (except her small boobs) to be enjoyable for me (trained fighter, perceptive, intelligent, funny, gamer girl and a nympho ...) - especially with all the other highly attractive girls.

Another downside for me is the amount of girls - to much to fast. The game doesnt take any time to show the relationship at the MCs home. We spend a lot of time in the "prologue" with Miru and then the game throws hot chicks at you by the dozen.

I would prefer to have them trickle in at a lower pace and to get more time with each of them. I cant remember half their names, because there are so many and for no reason.

The writing is weird - way to "pretentious" and over dramatic at time. No one really talks - everyone is just saying stuff and dances around the "thing" and "the situation" ... with the high pace of new girls and the snail pace that the story is progressing, it just feels strange.

I don’t give a fuck about NTR or most of what you’ve said, but you have hit upon why I don’t particularly like Miru. She’s toned down a lot from the original version, but she still feels like a very unrealistic character, a typical “dream girlfriend”.

For the most part the rest of the characters feel like interesting fuck ups, and more realistic as a result.

 

[Vidal the king of Pervert]

I don’t give a fuck about NTR or most of what you’ve said, but you have hit upon why I don’t particularly like Miru. She’s toned down a lot from the original version, but she still feels like a very unrealistic character, a typical “dream girlfriend”.

For the most part the rest of the characters feel like interesting fuck ups, and more realistic as a result.

I respectfully disagree although Miru is not my main girl I look forward to having her as just a friend i like

her

in fact although Leia is my one and only I fell in love with the entire family

one of my favorite scenes

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[mommysboiii]

So right now we are at chapter 2 and there is still 0 sign of any build up for NTR no matter how bad you treat Miru. Where are you going with this? I am not even talking about something so extreme like TAC. But there has to be some form of build up right?

I admit I was getting a little impatient and I understand that you want the story to be as realistic as possible. I still don't think the previous story was that bad and really enjoyed it though.

I dont even think you are into ntr or know what ntr is you are the same as harem fanbois you just wanna see love interest gets fucked/corrupted as fast as possible with most poeple as possible this is not ntr by the way

ntr always is about a very deep emotional connection and than getting betreayed but very slowly(a lot of build up) and you can use it for very good plot reasons/drama because this game is not a full focus ntr game

but slow ntr with deep emotional connection is real ntr(which is actually very tricky to do you need to be a very skilled writter to pull that off this is why 99% of ntr games suck at least the ones i played even if I LOVE THAT KINK) and it hurts so good so in my book this is a great thing so dont know your problem maybe you should watch a porn or play fast corruption game maybe that is more your thing

Query on this topic:
Will all NTR routes follow more or less the same logic?
Because reading that a certain character is going to have the longest NTR path, the first thing that came to my mind is that maybe that character could use jealousy as a way of punishment or to call attention.
Although she will probably be the one who has more "endurance" in the face of mistreatment, lies and deceit....

no spoilers for ntr mate pls ocean will be a 500iq storyteller (game of thrones moment incoming) so I want suprises

It might take a lot longer... But when it happens, you'll never forget it.

oh hell fucking yeah I am ready to get my heart torn into 1000 peaces a trauma for the next 20 years

If people want to know the problem with having ANY level of NTR they only need to look at those clamoring for it here in this thread. They don't care about character progress or mild levels that might make sense. They always want to jump straight to a line of dicks fucking a main LI/GF like Miru.


They are not compatible with any intelligent story

not really most of them dont understand what ntr is or they are not into ntr I would go even that far that a fast majority of games that have the ntr tag are not even ntr games

I dont wanna be mean but most porn/adult novel writers are not skilled enough to pull ntr off you need to be a very very very good writer to pull that off so ntr is not that great for amateur writers which most are on this site

 

[matschbirne]

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

wich one,... tobey, andrew, tom ?!?

 

[Turret]

At the moment, nothing is more important than building a fundament for each of the characters, including Miru.
This is the wrong time to think about NTR.

Hi Ocean!
I agree with a lot of what you wrote in your last couple posts here in the thread and I really look forward to how the various characters and relationships will develop. (with our players input and/or not)
That said and I am sorry if this question was answered before, but I did not see it asked so I do: I am no harem player, never was, but in the case of WIAB I want ask if there is the option of a "throuple" or understanding, swinging, however you want to name it, between 3-4 characters a possible end?
Because even if there are a lot of changes in the relationships from old WIAB to new WIAB coming, going by your post, for example Willi´s deep feelings for Miru and Leia are obvious even now. I know that such a threesome relationship will be hard to get, but it would be great if such an option exists.

Beside that I am also very interested how the crime/mystery elements will develop.
Bye for now!