VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[The D0n]

dude what do you consider top notch money most of this games I mentiont make over 10.000 dollars a month(thisa re like top 1% of creators) do you have any idea how much that is for a niche thing like EROTIC VISUAL NOVELS there are like 3 or 5 guys that make your 50 k number a month because they build a LOYAL FANBASE at the start of this site THEY GOT LUCKY most people are not insecure or write in this forum at all they dont care what they jerk of too they were the first there are plenty of guys that have good renders and are the same like the games you mentioned harem with better renders that make maybe 1000 bucks a month

why do you think companys try to make mass effect 69 and assasins creed 20 and not new ips?? becasue they build a loyal fanbase and its risky to start new ip even with most skilled devs in the world and endless money in the world

most people dont care about optional ntr they just like the cheracters and build a connection with the community and cheracters they would still simp over there bad dig cheracters even with optional ntr

I do and I have stated why. NTR is a low share of the market in every aspect and to the majority of the userbase is a turn off.

That is why it is important to either make one or the other as narratively it just does'nt work.

Luck has nothing to do with it... and to assume like your assumption that everyone shares the same kink to you is breathtaking, a lot of people avoid mastubory kinks as they are not into the act. No one is at fault just pick a lane as a Developer.

NTR and Solo are like Oil and Water.....

 

[WastedTalent]

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[mommysboiii]

NTR is a low share of the market in every aspect and to the majority of the userbase is a turn off.

low share dosent make over 10.000 dollar a month in a niche market like erotic visual novels

That is why it is important to either make one or the other as narratively it just does'nt work.

what do you mean it dosent work narratively?? I already showed games that make over 10.000 dollars a month and are narratively fantastic with OPTIONAL NTR seeds of chaos ,our red string.......................... they are narratively on top compared to the average no story pokemon/women collecting games

Luck has nothing to do with it

I know its difficult to understand and it hurts the ego but yes its like everything in life 80% luck 10% right moment at the right time and 10% skill I know it hurts the ego but I am sorry it is what it is there are plenty of people that have better renders, better writting and (only make 1500 dollar a month) even if they are objectivly better than the 50 k a month games in every possible way AGIAN there is a reason why big companys making assasin creed 33 inestad of taking risk or beaing innovative

everyone shares the same kink to you is breathtaking

again most people are not insecure and they really really really dont care if they jerk of on bukakke,gangbangs,lesbian conent,milfs,teens,dominant ,sub content,pegging,trans/shemale content or whatever they really dont CARE at all

to the majority of the userbase is a turn off.

no the majority dosent care and dosent write in this forum or is insecure about pixels they dont care about gangbangs and all that stuff THEY JUST WANT interesting cheracters,interesting story and hot scenes to jerk of MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT INSECURE ON PIXELS

 

[Feru452ax]

MOST PEOPLE ARE NOT INSECURE ON PIXELS

Just wanted to post to agree HEAVILY with this. I don't judge, but I can't avoid to think that people crying over NTR on a porn game made with pixels are just VERY sad with their current life.

If a person isn't sad with their life, if they have a partner at their side, if they have a good job, friends, etc. they wouldn't get so hurt and angry at a pixel doing something. Or they wouldn't create feelings for a bunch of pixels assembled that LOOKS LIKE a person.

Like I said, I don't judge. The way world is these days, with all those stimulus bombing, and the pathetic "work untill you bleed so you can have the merit of not starving" created in neoliberalism for some wealthy people become "coaches" , all the filters on social media, etc, etc, etc. it's hard to be happy with your own life.

But people should stop to think the obvious for 2 sec: CHARACTERS IN A GAME/TV SHOW/MOVIE DON'T EXIST.

If NTR is not forced on the game, just avoid. If it's forced, don't play.
People who don't like scat on porn games will just skip it right? People who don't like lesbianism or gay content will skip it right? People who don't like harem will skip it right?

ust do the same, stop falling in love with pixels in an atempt to make yourself happier, it won't work.

 

[WICKEDp4th]

Just wanted to post to agree HEAVILY with this. I don't judge, but I can't avoid to think that people crying over NTR on a porn game made with pixels are just VERY sad with their current life.

If a person isn't sad with their life, if they have a partner at their side, if they have a good job, friends, etc. they wouldn't get so hurt and angry at a pixel doing something. Or they wouldn't create feelings for a bunch of pixels assembled that LOOKS LIKE a person.

Like I said, I don't judge. The way world is these days, with all those stimulus bombing, and the pathetic "work untill you bleed so you can have the merit of not starving" created in neoliberalism for some wealthy people become "coaches" , all the filters on social media, etc, etc, etc. it's hard to be happy with your own life.

But people should stop to think the obvious for 2 sec: CHARACTERS IN A GAME/TV SHOW/MOVIE DON'T EXIST.

If NTR is not forced on the game, just avoid. If it's forced, don't play.
People who don't like scat on porn games will just skip it right? People who don't like lesbianism or gay content will skip it right? People who don't like harem will skip it right?

ust do the same, stop falling in love with pixels in an atempt to make yourself happier, it won't work.

I kinda agree with you on this, but i want to add another layer to that stuff, to think about.

First i want to say, i'm not complaining about stuff in the AVN's. If i don't like it, i simply quit, but...
as a guy, that is relativly happy with his live, i still despise NTR to a degree, it's not because i fall in love with some artsy crafted women, but because i have the power of immersiveness (you can call it self-insertion), means i put myself very easy into the (any) main characters perspective (i'm simply made this way ). NTR is a very controversial topic, because i'm no cuck, i cannot enjoy this type of content, at least the Netorare part is a complete turn off for me.

I think you are right about some guys who dive to deep into the feelings department about "their" woman, but like i wrote, there are just simply (many) people who put themself into the MC's of these games and getting a huge turn-off by getting cucked. Obviously i cannot speak for others, but i would like to think that it is this way.

The public complaining is annoying, i agree.

 

[Dragon59]

Indeed, it's kinda odd that SG is so much more popular than WiAB (especially in Discord).

I have no clue what happened about the chapter count. I'm just guessing Ocean is taking a different approach to the story.

I know what it means here, but when I see SG, I can't help but think Suicide Girls.

 

[Ilhares]

I know what it means here, but when I see SG, I can't help but think Suicide Girls.
View attachment 2720828

I used to think about them, but I miss thr old logo (hair was up) and when they at least had a good reputation. Finding out from a couple locals how the company really treated them was a bit of a downer.

At least the pixel girls don't disappoint.

 

[omgx123]

Everybody project manager until it's time to do it for real and take responsibility for bad decisions
I mean SG will be released on Steam and it's a great opportunity to impress a huge audience and make the game widely known. But the responsibility is as great as the opportunity, there is only one chance to make the first impression. I'm perfectly sure Ocean rates the quality of the game for release on Steam much better than me, you, or anyone else and he is much more than anyone else interested in the success of the release. So if he sees music as the weakest point at the moment, I would trust him on that. After all, he made the game the way it is now, and most of us like it. Remember how much he was blamed and still being criticized for reworking the first chapters of SG? But if you read the reviews that are written in the thread by people who first saw SG, then in most cases there will be something along the lines: "Amazing graphics, simply the best, only a small part of the second chapter looks much worse, just a pimple on perfect skin, what was that lol?" Moreover, as far as I understand from the dev log, he still does not have the opportunity to purchase this super-duper cgi workstation anyway and the successful release can give such an opportunity. So if he believes that investing in music will add more value to the game at release than anything else, I'll trust him on that. It's a pity that WIAB's budget doesn't allow him to buy a good music only for this game, but in the past, many songs were common for both games and it worked perfectly, some songs became the hallmark of both games, so this is not a problem.

Well idk what he thinks exactly, did he do some kind of poll with 2 choices to his supporters? "Licensed expensive music or more update frequency with more content"
I am pretty sure the latter option would be chosen by most. And the thing is, if he releases an incomplete game on steam with updates/seasons to follow every time period, the people would be more eager to play the next update asap, and the dev should focus on releasing updates asap in this regard. On the other hand, if it was a full game release on steam and is completed, then the music would matter to complete the full package.
Anyway, the game is good, just the updates roll up too slowly, one almost have to replay from the start each time to remember what is going on.

 

[Ass Fan]

Man I still don't understand some people who complain because of the NTR even though it is optional and the player have the choice of it off or not at the beginning of the game
In the old version, this content was more focused on Miru's side So far, everything was fine with me because I didn't like that dragon version of her very much. Anyway now with some changes and this content being pulled to Leia I also confess that at the beginning it left me disappointed because she is my favorite but that's not why I'm going to keep complaining I'm just going to avoid it now for those who like it and are going to follow this path have fun everyone here has their own tastes and fetishes

 

[Nikko_]

Just a guess but it could be the NTR. That alone will alienate a huge amount of potential audience since it's pretty much a small minority of guys that like that kinda stuff.

Or it could be the fact that SG is way better written and has better characters. Not trying to hate WiAB, it is what it is. I dont think SG even has sex scenes. Keeping people interested despite the lack of it says a lot.

 

[The D0n]

Just wanted to post to agree HEAVILY with this. I don't judge, but I can't avoid to think that people crying over NTR on a porn game made with pixels are just VERY sad with their current life.

If a person isn't sad with their life, if they have a partner at their side, if they have a good job, friends, etc. they wouldn't get so hurt and angry at a pixel doing something. Or they wouldn't create feelings for a bunch of pixels assembled that LOOKS LIKE a person.

Like I said, I don't judge. The way world is these days, with all those stimulus bombing, and the pathetic "work untill you bleed so you can have the merit of not starving" created in neoliberalism for some wealthy people become "coaches" , all the filters on social media, etc, etc, etc. it's hard to be happy with your own life.

But people should stop to think the obvious for 2 sec: CHARACTERS IN A GAME/TV SHOW/MOVIE DON'T EXIST.

If NTR is not forced on the game, just avoid. If it's forced, don't play.
People who don't like scat on porn games will just skip it right? People who don't like lesbianism or gay content will skip it right? People who don't like harem will skip it right?

ust do the same, stop falling in love with pixels in an atempt to make yourself happier, it won't work.

Fair point, not that anyone addressed my point about the writing .... but I guess that must be crying in some weird way.

Either the story works as a Solo or they write a NTR plot... that is the beginning, end and only issue with NTR and Solo development.

Next person to bang on about people complaining about NTR without addressing my very simple point can save us all time and don't even bother to reply

 

[yossa999]

Well idk what he thinks exactly, did he do some kind of poll with 2 choices to his supporters? "Licensed expensive music or more update frequency with more content"
I am pretty sure the latter option would be chosen by most. And the thing is, if he releases an incomplete game on steam with updates/seasons to follow every time period, the people would be more eager to play the next update asap, and the dev should focus on releasing updates asap in this regard. On the other hand, if it was a full game release on steam and is completed, then the music would matter to complete the full package.
Anyway, the game is good, just the updates roll up too slowly, one almost have to replay from the start each time to remember what is going on.

Hey, as a game fan, I'm with you with all my heart. I would prefer more content over the music any day. Moreover, there are quite enough free tracks, not songs, but simply relaxing, trance music, which makes an excellent background for the darkish and foggy surroundings of most of the scenes in the game. But here we step into the artist's territory. Perhaps he does not consider the first season complete without key songs (not to mention his perfectionism), and here the final decision is up to him and not to user polls. Players will grumble and forget that the update took a month longer, but it is much more difficult to forget the absolute harmony of the picture, plot, cinematography and music. Moreover I can't deny that in some scenes music does really matter. Just imagine the most romantic movie you can think of. The lead characters are dancing to the end of love, wouldn't you think that music is extremely important to such a setting, to convey their feelings to the viewers as well as the looks, touches and whatnot? And poorly chosen music can simply turn the meaning of the scene from romance to travesty.

 

[Nachtfalke]

I really have a big problem to understand "NTR" correctly, so I am of the opinion it means cheating.

Of course I would never want to see other men on my girl, but what about other women? I read something about Lesbian NTR.

If my girl makes out with other girls it would not bother me is that the NTR ?

Sorry but in Germany maybe 5% would share their girl with other guys but I think 80% would like a bi girlfriend.

I have now in the game NTR on on as long as no man goes to my girlfriend, but if I set it to off comes no girl to my girlfriend ?

 

[dervalle007]

I really have a big problem to understand "NTR" correctly, so I am of the opinion it means cheating.

There you are not alone. Sometimes I feel like there are as many definitions of NTR as there are stars in the sky. But for the sake of simplicity, cheating describes it pretty well. There are just a lot of different perceptions of what cheating is. I recently played a game (The Lust City) where one of the LIs rode a dildo and there were actually some complete idiots who took that as NTR and cried about it.

 

[WICKEDp4th]

I really have a big problem to understand "NTR" correctly, so I am of the opinion it means cheating.

Of course I would never want to see other men on my girl, but what about other women? I read something about Lesbian NTR.

If my girl makes out with other girls it would not bother me is that the NTR ?

Sorry but in Germany maybe 5% would share their girl with other guys but I think 80% would like a bi girlfriend.

I have now in the game NTR on on as long as no man goes to my girlfriend, but if I set it to off comes no girl to my girlfriend ?

It mainly depends on the viewpoint of the people.

The NTR (Netorare) means your girlfriend/wife/whatever gets "stolen" from you, the point is the strong feeling of jealousy in this scenario.
Then there is the NTR (Netori) which means you are the one that steals the girl/wife from someone else.
There could at least be one more NTR branch, but i'm not 100% certain.

If your girl makes out with another girl (or guy) without your consent it would be considered cheating. Some guys are very offended by this kind of content (reasons are dislike of same-sex intercourse, cheating!)
With your consent it would be kinda like an open relationship or like friends with benefits i guess, but it depends on girl on girl (only) or both girls with one guy (you, the MC).

So tl;dr
Cheating (The girl is still emotionally attached to the MC) does not equal Netorare (another guy steals your girl and their love for the Main Character).

Falls du noch fragen hast, kannst du mir auch eine PM schicken.

 

[Nachtfalke]

I would so love to make Miru my submissive slave

 

[yossa999]

I really have a big problem to understand "NTR" correctly, so I am of the opinion it means cheating.

Of course I would never want to see other men on my girl, but what about other women? I read something about Lesbian NTR.

If my girl makes out with other girls it would not bother me is that the NTR ?

Sorry but in Germany maybe 5% would share their girl with other guys but I think 80% would like a bi girlfriend.

I have now in the game NTR on on as long as no man goes to my girlfriend, but if I set it to off comes no girl to my girlfriend ?

I recently had the same problem, without even knowing I had one. But I started wondering after they called me a cuck for not giving a fuck about a girl in one game who found herself a dick other than MC's because me with my MC did not like her and had no love interest in her
I myself don't really care about this crap, whether there is NTR in the game or not, I believe it's up to the game devs, if they feel it's necessery for their story, I'm ok with that. But when you hear about NTR, be 90% sure that this is not about a classic netorare, it's not a cheating or stealing a LI from MC they are talking about. And lately it becomes more and more annoying that the self-proclaimed anti-NTR police are checking almost every decent game and issuing fines to the devs that, in their opinion, do not fully comply with theirs own anti-NTR standards.
So after reading tons of posts from different people in different threads, I finally found the most honest and straightforward definition of this shit that many people have in mind by these three letters but for some reason do not say directly. I don't post a direct quote from other game thread here, but it's easy to find

I see this all the time in threads. The truth is that an NTR-hater doesn't care what NTR really means. They could care less. It's just a word for when they don't get all the women as LIs. All of them.

For an NTR-hater (I include myself in this category), NTR means this: "I don't want to see any dicks in the game that aren't the MC's. None. Not as flashbacks, not as dreams, never. And I want all the LIs. No one else touches them."

I know this doesn't reflect real life, but if I wanted real life I'd turn off my laptop and walk outside.

 

[Dragon59]

There you are not alone. Sometimes I feel like there are as many definitions of NTR as there are stars in the sky. But for the sake of simplicity, cheating describes it pretty well. There are just a lot of different perceptions of what cheating is. I recently played a game (The Lust City) where one of the LIs rode a dildo and there were actually some complete idiots who took that as NTR and cried about it.

Hard to believe that there are still guys jealous of/intimidated by dildos in 2023.
EDIT: Apparently I found one.

 

[Vopeco]

Fair point, not that anyone addressed my point about the writing .... but I guess that must be crying in some weird way.

Either the story works as a Solo or they write a NTR plot... that is the beginning, end and only issue with NTR and Solo development.

Next person to bang on about people complaining about NTR without addressing my very simple point can save us all time and don't even bother to reply

People just seem more interested in attempting to psychologize people around here or project motives onto them, but you bring up a good point. I don't think the issue you bring up is necessarily about NTR either. I've played games where simply lines of dialogue get left behind that don't make sense for the playthrough you're doing. When you have a girl that is there to fulfill a certain kink or play a particular role, as in she just has one route, it makes things simple, when you have a girl that has multiple routes it definitely complicates things for Devs, especially when there's multiple girls in the game that have to be tracked with multiple choices for them all. I've seen it time and time again that writing and consistency goes down the drain in the latter example, and as you say things can seem out of place because the same line of dialogue that was meant for another route is used again in a route where it wouldn't really make sense. Guess we'll have to wait and see when it comes to WIAB. I didn't really give a shit about the NTR because it was only Miru and I don't care about her or have any plans to do her route anyways, but I'm a little disappointed the NTR will branch out to other girls too. It could create a mess for people not trying to do NTR. The game already warns characters will act less realistically with NTR turned completely off, whatever that means, don't know if that's a good sign honestly.

 

[Vopeco]

Or it could be the fact that SG is way better written and has better characters. Not trying to hate WiAB, it is what it is. I dont think SG even has sex scenes. Keeping people interested despite the lack of it says a lot.

Yea it's certainly probably multiple things, I think however, there is a chunk of people that will simply see the NTR tag and skip it. It doesn't appeal to a lot of guy players or make them aroused, like picking your favorite girl or any other fetish, some will like and some won't.