VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

[Darkdevil66]

You must be registered to see the links

Hello,

Soo...

1. Workstation
2. CH3 Status
3. Previews

1. Workstation

TLR at the end of the text.
Over the past weeks, I had a back-and-forth with the Nvidia tech support & also did a lot of research to see if memory pooling would still work through PCI-E, etc.
Nada... "Hey, let's charge almost 10,000€ for a GPU that can't even pool its memory like the predecessor."
That's pretty much the only reason why I want the A6000/Pro Cards.
But it's not going to happen with this GEN.
So I reconsidered and I'm doing the following now:
Instead of a Workstation with 2xA6000 ADA, I'm getting a custom-built workstation with 4x4090.
And on top of that, an A6000 (Old Gen).
I already have an old Gen A6000, and adding another with a NvLink will give me roughly 96GB VRAM.
I'd say 70% of my scenes can be rendered with 24GB. 30% need more than that. (Exceptions are updates like CH6 SG, which is 80% far above 24GB.)
So, I will have one PC with 2xA6000 Old Gen, that only renders the big scenes. (Every single update will have them.)
Meanwhile, the 4x4090 Workstation is going to render everything else.
And it's not just the raw speed of the GPU that's going to matter...
A good friend of mine is rendering on a 4090, and while he showed me a few animations, I noticed how fast they were rendering... But not because of the Cuda cores... But because of how fast the 4090 slurped the textures & other thingies into the memory.
Between each frame is a pause where the GPU loads all the textures & info into the memory... And while I created the Tabletop animations, this pause could take up to five minutes. (Before every single frame.)
This took longer than the actual rendering part & is also the reason why you never got a yoga/stretching cinematic in Chapter 3x5... As each memory loading pause took 15min and I abandoned it.
So it appears that it would also speed up animations by A LOT.
But I first have to test it, and then I can show you some graphs.
Oh, the custom Workstation (water-cooled GPUs) is also almost 8000€ cheaper than the previous double A6000 ADA Workstation.)
Both games would be made on both PCs. No more designated PCs. Both games are going to enjoy the fruits and WIAB won't face any downtime due to VRAM issues.
I can't get the workstation yet and have to wait for the Steam release, as you know, my old tax office hasn't submitted my 2021 numbers yet, and atm I wouldn't even get a loan for 2000€.
With the 5000 series GEN, I'll take another look at the Pro cards... But I need that scaleable VRAM.

TLR: Instead of a Workstation with 2xA6000s ADA, I get a custom Workstation with 4x4090 & a separate old Gen A6000 to upgrade my current WiAB PC to 96GB VRAM. New Workstation is almost 9000€ cheaper. Still can't get it before Steam, tho. Both Games would be made on both PCs. WIAB won't face any downtime.

2. Status of Chapter 3
CH3 is coming along great.
I still need to render ~400 renders. (96 of them are currently in the queue, and ~300 need to be set up.)
I've already started with postwork, and as soon as I have around 500 renders done in post, I will start testing.
We're getting pretty close now.

3. Previews - 4K attached
Sneaky MC



Zoey-Moey



New important environment



WiAB: Probably early September.
SG: Probably late September.

- Ocean

 

[sorco2003]

You must be registered to see the links

Hello,

Soo...

1. Workstation
2. CH3 Status
3. Previews

1. Workstation

TLR at the end of the text.
Over the past weeks, I had a back-and-forth with the Nvidia tech support & also did a lot of research to see if memory pooling would still work through PCI-E, etc.
Nada... "Hey, let's charge almost 10,000€ for a GPU that can't even pool its memory like the predecessor."
That's pretty much the only reason why I want the A6000/Pro Cards.
But it's not going to happen with this GEN.
So I reconsidered and I'm doing the following now:
Instead of a Workstation with 2xA6000 ADA, I'm getting a custom-built workstation with 4x4090.
And on top of that, an A6000 (Old Gen).
I already have an old Gen A6000, and adding another with a NvLink will give me roughly 96GB VRAM.
I'd say 70% of my scenes can be rendered with 24GB. 30% need more than that. (Exceptions are updates like CH6 SG, which is 80% far above 24GB.)
So, I will have one PC with 2xA6000 Old Gen, that only renders the big scenes. (Every single update will have them.)
Meanwhile, the 4x4090 Workstation is going to render everything else.
And it's not just the raw speed of the GPU that's going to matter...
A good friend of mine is rendering on a 4090, and while he showed me a few animations, I noticed how fast they were rendering... But not because of the Cuda cores... But because of how fast the 4090 slurped the textures & other thingies into the memory.
Between each frame is a pause where the GPU loads all the textures & info into the memory... And while I created the Tabletop animations, this pause could take up to five minutes. (Before every single frame.)
This took longer than the actual rendering part & is also the reason why you never got a yoga/stretching cinematic in Chapter 3x5... As each memory loading pause took 15min and I abandoned it.
So it appears that it would also speed up animations by A LOT.
But I first have to test it, and then I can show you some graphs.
Oh, the custom Workstation (water-cooled GPUs) is also almost 8000€ cheaper than the previous double A6000 ADA Workstation.)
Both games would be made on both PCs. No more designated PCs. Both games are going to enjoy the fruits and WIAB won't face any downtime due to VRAM issues.
I can't get the workstation yet and have to wait for the Steam release, as you know, my old tax office hasn't submitted my 2021 numbers yet, and atm I wouldn't even get a loan for 2000€.
With the 5000 series GEN, I'll take another look at the Pro cards... But I need that scaleable VRAM.

TLR: Instead of a Workstation with 2xA6000s ADA, I get a custom Workstation with 4x4090 & a separate old Gen A6000 to upgrade my current WiAB PC to 96GB VRAM. New Workstation is almost 9000€ cheaper. Still can't get it before Steam, tho. Both Games would be made on both PCs. WIAB won't face any downtime.

2. Status of Chapter 3
CH3 is coming along great.
I still need to render ~400 renders. (96 of them are currently in the queue, and ~300 need to be set up.)
I've already started with postwork, and as soon as I have around 500 renders done in post, I will start testing.
We're getting pretty close now.

3. Previews - 4K attached
Sneaky MC
View attachment 2820768


Zoey-Moey

View attachment 2820769

New important environment

View attachment 2820770

WiAB: Probably early September.
SG: Probably late September.

- Ocean

Lots of interesting things, not the dates, that's sad.
Not long ago in the SG thread I answered that each developer had their needs, and they knew them, and that each graphics card had advantages and disadvantages. With this configuration, it is clear that the advantages of the 4090 are many, even a user had commented that pci express 5.0 allowed to pull the VRAM (I do not know how it will do it, I have not tested it), so a new generation workstation should be able to stock the memory (apart from the speed that naturally has).
Great news in general!
Who was the friend? Kentyrr?

 

[Uriel ☁]

Out of curiosity, why put 4x4090 on a single pc instead of spreading them out on multiple pcs?
VRAM doesn't stack so it would only help with the speed, and I'm certain rendering 4 pictures on 4 pcs with a 4090 each is much faster than rendering them on a single 4x4090 pc.

This solutions always look good on paper, until you're faced with DAZ's (lack of) optimization for them.

 

[faramata]

Out of curiosity, why put 4x4090 on a single pc instead of spreading them out on multiple pcs?
VRAM doesn't stack so it would only help with the speed, and I'm certain rendering 4 pictures on 4 pcs with a 4090 each is much faster than rendering them on a single 4x4090 pc.

This solutions always look good on paper, until you're faced with DAZ's (lack of) optimization for them.

" I already have an old Gen A6000, and adding another with a NvLink will give me roughly 96GB VRAM. "
I dunno, I also read and heard that DAZ can't use the combined RAM of several cards but apparently Ocean heard otherwise.

 

[Razrback16]

Nice dev update, thanks - that's crazy on NVidia's end; to stop allowing the VRAM to stack on the Ada workstation card is nuts. Taking away one of its main selling points; might as well just have a big billboard telling creators not to buy it since that is undoubtedly a huge draw for other developers just as it was for Ocean. A multi gpu Ada Quadro rig as originally planned would have been fantastic - lower power usage, less heat generation, etc. and with the astronomical energy costs in Germany that would have been a great match, but hey gotta do what you gotta do and find a plan b. Glad to hear the workstation is going to be liquid cooled, too; been running liquid cooled CPUs & GPUs in my rigs for around 20 years now and I couldn't endorse it more positively overall.

" I already have an old Gen A6000, and adding another with a NvLink will give me roughly 96GB VRAM. "
I dunno, I also read and heard that DAZ can't use the combined RAM of several cards but apparently Ocean heard otherwise.

Ya I've seen some banter on that as well; I've been curious if it's just a DAZ issue. I know Ocean has said he wants to move to Blender, so if Blender works well with VRAM stacking then that'll be another good reason to expedite the transition.

 

[Nurikabe]

Out of curiosity, why put 4x4090 on a single pc instead of spreading them out on multiple pcs?
VRAM doesn't stack so it would only help with the speed, and I'm certain rendering 4 pictures on 4 pcs with a 4090 each is much faster than rendering them on a single 4x4090 pc.

This solutions always look good on paper, until you're faced with DAZ's (lack of) optimization for them.

I thought that the 4090s and all cards moving forward got rid of NVLink? There is a limitation with DS and number of cards.

 

[PushMyButton]

well, the game is top-end, but there is little content in the game, and I would like to see content with other guys, for example, with girls having sex and doing blowjob, and the animation of sex is very short, and there is no choice of poses for sex

 

[wizardcock]

Can someone explain to me why Ocean blurs the background so much? he talks about how the environment is important, spends so much time, but the characters are always in the blurry, bad visible background

 

[yossa999]

Can someone explain to me why Ocean blurs the background so much? he talks about how the environment is important, spends so much time, but the characters are always in the blurry, bad visible background

I assume that this is to create the effect of presence and to deepen the immersion in the scene. Have you ever noticed that when you look at an object in front of you, all the details on the periphery of your vision and in the distance seem to be blurred? That's what I think he was trying to achieve.
And it has been used many times in SG as well. For example, you are talking to someone in the hallway of a college and that person is in focus, while those passing in the background are blurred. But suddenly someone from the passers-by attracts your attention, and the picture changes. The person in front of you is now blurred, and the one you noticed in the distance, as well as those who are next to them, is in focus.

Google answers this:

Background blur is a common technique used by photographers for years as a way to keep the focus on their most important subject. The idea is to focus on the element in the foreground, by removing the hard lines and distracting detail in the background, to truly make the element pop.

But only Ocean knows for sure. Maybe he did it just for lulz.

 

[Nurikabe]

Can someone explain to me why Ocean blurs the background so much? he talks about how the environment is important, spends so much time, but the characters are always in the blurry, bad visible background

Yep, it is a standard photographic principle called depth of field (DOF). It is important in highlighting the subject when the context (background) is less important. Look at any non-landscape image or film. They all use it. Even landscape if the image has a primary subject, like a tree.

When done well, it creates a beautiful image with a nice bokeh (the ability of a lens to render the out-of-focus part of the image). Photographers pay a lot of money for lenses that create great DOF and a fantastic bokeh. The ability to use DOF is a good measure of an experienced 3D renderer compared to an amateur.

When the background is important, it is kept in focus.

 

[wizardcock]

Yep, it is a standard photographic principle called depth of field (DOF). It is important in highlighting the subject when the context (background) is less important. Look at any non-landscape image or film. They all use it. Even landscape if the image has a primary subject, like a tree.

When done well, it creates a beautiful image with a nice bokeh (the ability of a lens to render the out-of-focus part of the image). Photographers pay a lot of money for lenses that create great DOF and a fantastic bokeh. The ability to use DOF is a good measure of an experienced 3D renderer compared to an amateur.

When the background is important, it is kept in focus.

I understand, but he uses it everywhere absolutely, in every render and the degree of background blur is like too strong, it's impossible to tell what's in there. And even if there are 2 people in the frame, in 80% that one of them will be blurred. In each render it's just the character and that's it, but I'd like to see the details of the environment as well

 

[Nurikabe]

I understand, but he uses it everywhere absolutely, in every render and the degree of background blur is like too strong, it's impossible to tell what's in there. And even if there are 2 people in the frame, in 80% that one of them will be blurred.

There is certainly using too much of the effect. Or not using the window properly to keep everyone in focus. I did notice that in a few shots too. The Daz Studio DOF tool isn't the most intuitive and easiest thing to use. And it can be counterintuitive to a person with photography experience. Sometimes you have to use a ridiculous F-Stop that only exists in the digital world. Or "camera lenses" that aren't possible physically. It's difficult to master is what I am saying.

 

[John972]

Yep, it is a standard photographic principle called depth of field (DOF). It is important in highlighting the subject when the context (background) is less important. Look at any non-landscape image or film. They all use it. Even landscape if the image has a primary subject, like a tree.

When done well, it creates a beautiful image with a nice bokeh (the ability of a lens to render the out-of-focus part of the image). Photographers pay a lot of money for lenses that create great DOF and a fantastic bokeh. The ability to use DOF is a good measure of an experienced 3D renderer compared to an amateur.

When the background is important, it is kept in focus.

I cannot think of any easier practical illustration of this than comparing the original SG Ch 1 & 2 renders with the reworks.

The original renders had an unnaturally large DOF and often featured angles of view wider than normal human vision (around 46°)

This made the rendered scenes look fake (like many FPS games) and sometimes too busy. Oceans current use of composition and DOF gives him far greater control in manipulating the viewer's attention (while also giving his game a cinematic feel).

 

[rj677]

You must be registered to see the links

Hello,

Soo...

1. Workstation
2. CH3 Status
3. Previews

1. Workstation

TLR at the end of the text.
Over the past weeks, I had a back-and-forth with the Nvidia tech support & also did a lot of research to see if memory pooling would still work through PCI-E, etc.
Nada... "Hey, let's charge almost 10,000€ for a GPU that can't even pool its memory like the predecessor."
That's pretty much the only reason why I want the A6000/Pro Cards.
But it's not going to happen with this GEN.
So I reconsidered and I'm doing the following now:
Instead of a Workstation with 2xA6000 ADA, I'm getting a custom-built workstation with 4x4090.
And on top of that, an A6000 (Old Gen).
I already have an old Gen A6000, and adding another with a NvLink will give me roughly 96GB VRAM.
I'd say 70% of my scenes can be rendered with 24GB. 30% need more than that. (Exceptions are updates like CH6 SG, which is 80% far above 24GB.)
So, I will have one PC with 2xA6000 Old Gen, that only renders the big scenes. (Every single update will have them.)
Meanwhile, the 4x4090 Workstation is going to render everything else.
And it's not just the raw speed of the GPU that's going to matter...
A good friend of mine is rendering on a 4090, and while he showed me a few animations, I noticed how fast they were rendering... But not because of the Cuda cores... But because of how fast the 4090 slurped the textures & other thingies into the memory.
Between each frame is a pause where the GPU loads all the textures & info into the memory... And while I created the Tabletop animations, this pause could take up to five minutes. (Before every single frame.)
This took longer than the actual rendering part & is also the reason why you never got a yoga/stretching cinematic in Chapter 3x5... As each memory loading pause took 15min and I abandoned it.
So it appears that it would also speed up animations by A LOT.
But I first have to test it, and then I can show you some graphs.
Oh, the custom Workstation (water-cooled GPUs) is also almost 8000€ cheaper than the previous double A6000 ADA Workstation.)
Both games would be made on both PCs. No more designated PCs. Both games are going to enjoy the fruits and WIAB won't face any downtime due to VRAM issues.
I can't get the workstation yet and have to wait for the Steam release, as you know, my old tax office hasn't submitted my 2021 numbers yet, and atm I wouldn't even get a loan for 2000€.
With the 5000 series GEN, I'll take another look at the Pro cards... But I need that scaleable VRAM.

TLR: Instead of a Workstation with 2xA6000s ADA, I get a custom Workstation with 4x4090 & a separate old Gen A6000 to upgrade my current WiAB PC to 96GB VRAM. New Workstation is almost 9000€ cheaper. Still can't get it before Steam, tho. Both Games would be made on both PCs. WIAB won't face any downtime.

2. Status of Chapter 3
CH3 is coming along great.
I still need to render ~400 renders. (96 of them are currently in the queue, and ~300 need to be set up.)
I've already started with postwork, and as soon as I have around 500 renders done in post, I will start testing.
We're getting pretty close now.

3. Previews - 4K attached
Sneaky MC
View attachment 2820768


Zoey-Moey

View attachment 2820769

New important environment

View attachment 2820770

WiAB: Probably early September.
SG: Probably late September.

- Ocean

You know its sad when I cant even look at a Dev Log that should in theory be positive to one of my favourite AVNs without thinking of all the ways that WIAB somehow someway will be cucked all over again .

I was and still am of the opinion that the better AVN made by Ocean is by far WIAB just based on the setting of the story it tells... College AVNs just dont do it for me anymore after having played 1000+ of them and because of that every story that doesnt have that setting is refreshing to me.

So the fact that this game seems to always be the "2nd game"/ "3rd wheel" for Ocean, just makes me think the worst for it every time .

It almost seems like (this coming from a person that isnt on the discord and just reads updates from time to time) when something goes wrong with Ocean/his setup its this game that suffers. For example:
SG last release: 9/03/23
WIAB last release: 17/11/22
But lo and behold, they are getting both released on September (6 months wait for SG, which is kinda normal, while WIAB took 10 months..............)

It depresses me not only seeing this thread be as dead as it is right now but also the fact that after all these years we still didnt catch up this new version to the old version of this game ....

And because of that, I refuse to keep clinging on to hope and have expectations for this game just because the dev says something that in theory MIGHT be good for WIAB... Unless Ocean starts to show results and actually starts "developing" the WIAB consistently for over a couple releases, Im just gonna continue being pessimistic and sad about this game

To the ones that are still hopeful for WIAB, I wish you all the best ...

 

[Jstforme]

You know its sad when I cant even look at a Dev Log that should in theory be positive to one of my favourite AVNs without thinking of all the ways that WIAB somehow someway will be cucked all over again .

I was and still am of the opinion that the better AVN made by Ocean is by far WIAB just based on the setting of the story it tells... College AVNs just dont do it for me anymore after having played 1000+ of them and because of that every story that doesnt have that setting is refreshing to me.

So the fact that this game seems to always be the "2nd game"/ "3rd wheel" for Ocean, just makes me think the worst for it every time .

It almost seems like (this coming from a person that isnt on the discord and just reads updates from time to time) when something goes wrong with Ocean/his setup its this game that suffers. For example:
SG last release: 9/03/23
WIAB last release: 17/11/22
But lo and behold, they are getting both released on September (6 months wait for SG, which is kinda normal, while WIAB took 10 months..............)

It depresses me not only seeing this thread be as dead as it is right now but also the fact that after all these years we still didnt catch up this new version to the old version of this game ....

And because of that, I refuse to keep clinging on to hope and have expectations for this game just because the dev says something that in theory MIGHT be good for WIAB... Unless Ocean starts to show results and actually starts "developing" the WIAB consistently for over a couple releases, Im just gonna continue being pessimistic and sad about this game

To the ones that are still hopeful for WIAB, I wish you all the best ...

For me and I'm sure many others, whenever a dev re-masters graphics and tweaks the already told parts of the story for a game that's not even half way finished is a pretty good sign that the dev is either milking or unable to come up with new content...therefore not worth supporting or talking about. Honestly, graphics are secondary to a well told or in this case spicy story, and the fact this dev has so much focus on graphics does not bode well...should have finished his story first before dicking around with lighting and other crap that doesn't matter at the end of the day.

 

[Nurikabe]

For me and I'm sure many others, whenever a dev re-masters graphics and tweaks the already told parts of the story for a game that's not even half way finished is a pretty good sign that the dev is either milking or unable to come up with new content...therefore not worth supporting or talking about. Honestly, graphics are secondary to a well told or in this case spicy story, and the fact this dev has so much focus on graphics does not bode well...should have finished his story first before dicking around with lighting and other crap that doesn't matter at the end of the day.

I don't think that represents Ocean in any way. There is no doubt he is a perfectionist and that can be a major downfall.

This thread's liveliness (or any thread) is always one step away from an update, dev log, or image post. I agree that Ocean needs to tell the story. Get it out and release it. Then let those perfectionist feelings kick in and make changes if needed. This story has taken a back seat to Summer's Gone for a long time. When it comes to comparing it to the original version, I struggle with which is better. On one hand, that story was being released and updated regularly. But there were flaws and some significant weaknesses in the story. The visuals were beginner, but Ocean was a beginner at the time.

Perhaps taking this chance to rework the story and graphics will pay off in the end. It seems to have major improvements graphically. It is far too early to see where the story is going and what improvements have been made. From the dev logs and posts that Ocean has made on the subject, it sounds like he is making some significant changes to the story. The new version will be significantly different from the previous version. It is safe to say we have no clue where it is going. In some ways, that makes me sad for a story that I enjoyed. There are changes that I don't agree with, but overall, they are welcome and are true improvements.

Time will tell.

 

[slightchance]

Came here to see if this project has moved forward a little so the last Dev log gave me a chuckle. There are developers out there who do so much more with much less - from storytelling, scope to writing. He's investing so much time in one single aspect of the process that I wouldn't be surprised when he proclaims that he needs more time to study AI because "that would give him the edge on the market and cut render time by 2%".

 

[klou]

Came here to see if this project has moved forward a little so the last Dev log gave me a chuckle. There are developers out there who do so much more with much less - from storytelling, scope to writing. He's investing so much time in one single aspect of the process that I wouldn't be surprised when he proclaims that he needs more time to study AI because "that would give him the edge on the market and cut render time by 2%".

And some of the post are about computer specs blah blah rather than the actual progress update.

 

[Kassandara]

People do always find a way to complain about something

 

[Ass Fan]

It's funny because that's the absolute truth there will always be