VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [Ch. 3 Full] [Oceanlab]

4.30 star(s) 185 Votes
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Hahn1900

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Jan 3, 2021
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Well, lets face it, any DEV who want a safe environment should avoid patreon in the future... there are other platforms, more than enough.

Patreon has changed their rules incedibly fast these days and is acting unpredictable. And its not even sure how they will react to some games... i mean, there are still games on patreon that are CLEARLY incest games for example, with no way around it and they are still on, biggest of them, summertime saga. Well... why is it still on? Because of the income, patreon is getting a lot out of that game... WiaB didnt have that much support, enough to get by for ocean... but not enough to prevent a action from patreon.

Patreon isnt even chasing only incest or some other "grey zones"... no they are kinda deleting adult content one by one. Dont know what they are thinking but if they continue like this, they will lose a lot of income and subscribestar and others will get bigger and bigger.

Its a struggle for the DEVs to get their project moving onto another platform, but every DEV should consider to move their stuff away from patreon sooner or later. Its obvious that nothing is safe there and that the patreon rules are not really followed either... they have their doublestandards. If you are big enough like the DEVs Summertime Saga you can make anything you want, with not even hidden incest too. Others are just removed... now it happended to ocean (by far not the only one, there are tons of games and DEVs that were removed in the last months)

Hopefully ocean has tackled that beforehand and the subscribestar page is growing enough to get by.

Most important thing now is the Steam and GOG Release of both his games... many AVNs got on steam recently but not that many were a success... i really hope Ocean can have enough success to keep things going, well not going, to move FURTHER. He needs to get things done faster than in the past i would say... with the rwork thing out of the way, new hardware, the GOG and steam release, things should run smoother now... or better said, the MUST run smoother now.
 
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Maviarab

Maviarab

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Jul 12, 2020
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John972 said:
To be honest, Ocean played with fire and got burned.

He had a choice when he remade WIAB:

1. Keep certain themes (even if only implied), keep his Patreon base happy, but risk eventually falling afoul with Patreon (i.e. like putting your John Thomas in a sleeping alligators mouth and betting you won't get bit)

2. Remove certain themes completely (I think he could have done this without too much issue), piss off a bunch of supporters, but protect his Patreon revenue stream.

Don't for a moment kid yourself that Steam or SS are safe. Play with fire/push the boundaries and a third-party can pull the plug at any time and without warning.
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Steam don't care about incest...and as for Patreon supporters, WIAB has always had much less since Ocean took over SG and started the rework, so that's probably not the end of the world to him given it will be on Steam in the next few months itself.
 
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John972

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Apr 24, 2018
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Maviarab said:
Steam don't care about incest...and as for Patreon supporters, WIAB has always had much less since Ocean took over SG and started the rework, so that's probably not the end of the world to him given it will be on Steam in the next few months itself.
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Patreon didn't care as much at one stage either. Just because Steam may be "friendly" now, doesn't mean it will remain so in the future, especially if cc companies/processors choose to apply pressure.

The (valid) point I'm making is that Ocean risks losing his revenue streams to forces outside of his control. I don't want to see that happen.
 
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Ayhsel

Ayhsel

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May 9, 2019
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Maviarab said:
Which can happen to pretty much any business or person at any time. Some things you really have to stop worrying about.
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There is also the fact that... mmm how to say it...

"Close connection" between the characters in WIAB or between MC and Nami is at the core of the stories

WIAB does have it harder as I can count at least 3 main characters that would be a big no no innthat term, vs just one in in SG. But Nami is still so huge in the story that seems hard to avoid.

Only way it may work without issues is make a non i version. If it just happens that some fan decides to make a patch, that is another story.

EDIT: by fan patch, I hope I am being as clear as possible.
 
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John972

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Maviarab said:
Which can happen to pretty much any business or person at any time. Some things you really have to stop worrying about.
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Firstly, I see Ocean is clearly passionate about his games, as evidenced by his drive and perseverance over the years, despite obstacles and fan criticisms. If he was forced to stop because third party providers pull the plug, them I expect it to have an negative impact on him. It won't impact me, other than the fact I have a trait called empathy.

Your comment is throw-away and asinine. If any business chooses to flout rules or break the law, they run a higher risk of things going south. That doesn't just happen to any business at any time.
 
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Doomyk

Doomyk

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John972 said:
Patreon didn't care as much at one stage either. Just because Steam may be "friendly" now, doesn't mean it will remain so in the future, especially if cc companies/processors choose to apply pressure.

The (valid) point I'm making is that Ocean risks losing his revenue streams to forces outside of his control. I don't want to see that happen.
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Agree.In addition, do not forget that Steam may allow this, Patreon can still ban you for a *different* version on Steam. Otherwise, Ocean, like other developers, would not play the game *an unknown person posted some patch here*, but would calmly add on their Discord.
PS: The funny thing is that Patreon's rules state that fictional plot elements depicting incest and related to a larger work (for example, Game of Thrones) can be allowed:ROFLMAO:. I'm just sure that if someone decided to create an avn, then he would have been banned for even a tenth part of the GoT plot. One character like Ramsay Bolton would be enough for a ban.
 
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The Krogan Dude

The Krogan Dude

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Doomyk said:
Agree.In addition, do not forget that Steam may allow this, Patreon can still ban you for a *different* version on Steam. Otherwise, Ocean, like other developers, would not play the game *an unknown person posted some patch here*, but would calmly add on their Discord.
PS: The funny thing is that Patreon's rules state that fictional plot elements depicting incest and related to a larger work (for example, Game of Thrones) can be allowed:ROFLMAO:. I'm just sure that if someone decided to create an avn, then he would have been banned for even a tenth part of the GoT plot. One character like Ramsay Bolton would be enough for a ban.
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Or the Lannister and Targaryan background :BootyTime:
 
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John972

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Apr 24, 2018
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Doomyk said:
Agree.In addition, do not forget that Steam may allow this, Patreon can still ban you for a *different* version on Steam. Otherwise, Ocean, like other developers, would not play the game *an unknown person posted some patch here*, but would calmly add on their Discord.
PS: The funny thing is that Patreon's rules state that fictional plot elements depicting incest and related to a larger work (for example, Game of Thrones) can be allowed:ROFLMAO:. I'm just sure that if someone decided to create an avn, then he would have been banned for even a tenth part of the GoT plot. One character like Ramsay Bolton would be enough for a ban.
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I know, the hypocrisy is astounding and the rules likely only get enforced against the small fish. Add to that the fact that any third party can change their policy at any time. My view is that Ocean, as a business manager, has to assess the risk (of having "unfashionable" plot elements), decide how much risk he's willing to take on, and look mitigate risk where he can to protect his investment.

PS - I'm honestly surprised it took this long for Patreon to move against WIAB. Any person with an internet connection and Google could establish the truth about the WIAB plot, it's history, and the game add-on that can't be named (including the author of that add-on), with most of the evidence appearing in this very forum.
 
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Hahn1900

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2021
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John972 said:
I know, the hypocrisy is astounding and the rules likely only get enforced against the small fish. Add to that the fact that any third party can change their policy at any time. My view is that Ocean, as a business manager, has to assess the risk (of having "unfashionable" plot elements), decide how much risk he's willing to take on, and look mitigate risk where he can to protect his investment.

PS - I'm honestly surprised it took this long for Patreon to move against WIAB. Any person with an internet connection and Google could establish the truth about the WIAB plot, it's history, and the game add-on that can't be named (including the author of that add-on), with most of the evidence appearing in this very forum.
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Risk? What risk? Do you know the game summertime saga? If ocean would have made the amount of money like summertime saga is, he wouldnt have to deal with this problem now. Summertime Saga isnt even hiding the incest and doesnt get bothered by patreon, cause they earn a lot out of it too... WiaB was simply not big enough, someone reported it, and so patreon got rid of it... thats it.
 
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SonsOfLiberty

SonsOfLiberty

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John972 said:
I vaguely recall cc companies putting pressure on third party processors, such PayPal, over the years, Sadly, it's never-ending.
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You can still pay at all those sites with CC's. If it was really credit compainies why would they still let you use their cards to pay for porn?
 
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John972

Active Member
Apr 24, 2018
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Hahn81 said:
Risk? What risk? Do you know the game summertime saga? If ocean would have made the amount of money like summertime saga is, he wouldnt have to deal with this problem now. Summertime Saga isnt even hiding the incest and doesnt get bothered by patreon, cause they earn a lot out of it too... WiaB was simply not big enough, someone reported it, and so patreon got rid of it... thats it.
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What risk? You answered your own question, Is WIAB as big as SS? No! So, there was/is risk and that's how it played out.
 
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John972

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Apr 24, 2018
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SonsOfLiberty said:
That article just kind of proved the point it's not the CC's.
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From the same article:


PayPal said it was acting in part because banks and credit card companies it works with restrict such content, according to an email PayPal sent to Smashwords on February 24. Reuters obtained copies of the emails.

"Our banking partners and credit card associations have taken a very strict stance on this subject matter," PayPal said in the February 24 email. "Our relationships with the banking partners are absolutely critical in order to provide the online and mobile services we (offer) ... to our customers. Therefore, we have to remain in compliance with their rules, which prohibit content involving rape, bestiality or incest."
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It is even less acceptable for large financial institutions such as credit card companies to start making arbitrary decisions about what is and isn’t obscene. It’s not their job to act as moral arbiters, defining taste and effectively banning certain types of content from sale. If content is not clearly illegal, people should be able to both publish and purchase it. If content is straying into a grey area of legality then it is for the law, however flawed that law is, to challenge it.
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I recall when all this went down, and it affected other payment processors too, not just PayPal. Numerous news stories from the time pointed out the banks and cc companies applying pressure through their terms and conditions.
 
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4.30 star(s) 185 Votes