VN Ren'Py Where It All Began [S1 Ch.4 Fix 1 Steam] [Oceanlab]

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Dr.TSoni

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As I said, I don't disagree with you. We just don't know enough, Ben might have been cheated on before or he might have a history of jealosy, Mon might have something to do with it too. I am only saying that we don't know enough of their relantioship to judge it. They could be a happy couple and Ben behavior is odd or Ben has a real motive to feel that jealous of William.
Honestly, I don't find it strange; even with all the doubts about their relationship, Mon seems out of Ben's league. I'd say it's almost natural for him to be jealous at the appearance of someone who seems to have an influence over his girlfriend that's out of his league.

There's plenty of other popular ones on this forum that will fall WELL before this. And the screams of anguish when those games get mafia remakes will be loud.
Leaving the "forbidden relationship" seems more practical to me than devoting oneself to the mafia.
 

Maccabbee

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Honestly, I don't find it strange; even with all the doubts about their relationship, Mon seems out of Ben's league. I'd say it's almost natural for him to be jealous at the appearance of someone who seems to have an influence over his girlfriend that's out of his league.


Leaving the "forbidden relationship" seems more practical to me than devoting oneself to the mafia.
Many games have those "forbidden relationships" as a core. They're not going to be the same games without it, and most can't pivot that completely. I am not a "cest" guy, but I like some games that use that trope extensively. Some of those games I think are hurt by using the trope, others it sort of blends in nicely, or are just great games whether its' cest or not.

Either way, I am not a fan of blocking people from getting what they want, if it doesn't harm anyone else.
 

Dr.TSoni

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others it sort of blends in nicely
Having played several of them myself, I can confirm that there are few who actually use it as a narrative theme and not simply insert it.

Either way, I am not a fan of blocking people from getting what they want, if it doesn't harm anyone else.
Unfortunately, it seems that live and let live no longer applies.
 

RNasc4444

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Leaving the "forbidden relationship" seems more practical to me than devoting oneself to the mafia.
Why couldn't it be aliens?!?!?! It's just as stupid but far more entertaining than mafia and allows for a much wider array of ideas to be put into the narrative.

Man this sucks. I love sci-fi! It should have been aliens!
Many games have those "forbidden relationships" as a core. They're not going to be the same games without it, and most can't pivot that completely. I am not a "cest" guy, but I like some games that use that trope extensively. Some of those games I think are hurt by using the trope, others it sort of blends in nicely, or are just great games whether its' cest or not.
You're leaving me confused here. How are we not seeing eye to eye on everything that has unfolded here so far?

I'm arguing both Ocean's games were created with incest at its very core and WiAB especially is so heavily reliant on it that it absolutely does not work without it.

I thought your stance was that incest was never core to either game and it works without it. Am I wrong?

Because I can give you the second, if it works for you it works for you. But trying to argue incest wasn't the absolute core idea in the creation of these 2 games is lunacy. And is factually false.
 
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Dr.TSoni

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LHDLLB

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Why couldn't it be aliens?!?!?! It's just as stupid but far more entertaining than mafia and allows for a much wider array of ideas to be put into the narrative.

Man this sucks. I love sci-fi! It should have been aliens!

You're leaving me confused here. How are we not seeing eye to eye on everything that has unfolded here so far?

I'm arguing both Ocean's games were created with incest at its very core and WiAB especially is so heavily reliant on it that it absolutely does not work without it.

I thought your stance was that incest was never core to either game and it works without it. Am I wrong?

Because I can give you the second, if it works for you it works for you. But trying to argue incest wasn't the absolute core idea in the creation of these 2 games is lunacy. And is factually false.
I actually think SG can work well with out incest, just make ir a strangeness of Noji because she raised the two of them and a resistence of Nika out of it. The problem is the The Race of Impossible Odds point and the talk outside Vic's house but at the time ocean was still wikining at us. Curious if he will change some dialogues befote S2 drops
 

hoshin0119

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It seems like the MC has a bad relationship with Katie and Leia because he left the family in the past. Has the reason for that ever been revealed? English isn’t my first language, so I sometimes have a hard time understanding everything while playing the game.
 

PTPorts

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Maccabbee

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Why couldn't it be aliens?!?!?! It's just as stupid but far more entertaining than mafia and allows for a much wider array of ideas to be put into the narrative.

Man this sucks. I love sci-fi! It should have been aliens!

You're leaving me confused here. How are we not seeing eye to eye on everything that has unfolded here so far?

I'm arguing both Ocean's games were created with incest at its very core and WiAB especially is so heavily reliant on it that it absolutely does not work without it.

I thought your stance was that incest was never core to either game and it works without it. Am I wrong?

Because I can give you the second, if it works for you it works for you. But trying to argue incest wasn't the absolute core idea in the creation of these 2 games is lunacy. And is factually false.
I used to think that as well, and was dubious about the rework. The rework was fine for me, and I am not missing the cest. The justification for the relationship in the game is believable enough for me as it is now.

My point is more "it was great how it was, but that doesn't exist anymore, and this new thing is fine for me on it's own merits."

I raised a daughter for the past 12 years, so I guess I got the message to "let it go."

edit: I feel like I need to add this: 'cest is not what brought me to the game, the stuff around it is: the characters, feelings, relationships, even the art. I don't miss the 'cest.
 
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Dr.TSoni

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It seems like the MC has a bad relationship with Katie and Leia because he left the family in the past. Has the reason for that ever been revealed? English isn’t my first language, so I sometimes have a hard time understanding everything while playing the game.
Katie is angry because William and Leia tortured her when they were little. Leia is angry because William left her behind without saying anything when he left.
As for the reason William left now, it's because he broke some mafia rules that forbade him from having a relationship with Leia.

Ohh no no that's Edgar. He's in another game.

I can't unsee the similarities :LOL:
Poor Alexander mistreated in other topics too XD
 

RNasc4444

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I raised a daughter for the past 12 years, so I guess I got the message to "let it go."
Weird thing to include. Feel like this should be directed at Ocean for the games he created but hey congrats on raising a daughter!
 

RNasc4444

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I actually think SG can work well with out incest, just make ir a strangeness of Noji because she raised the two of them and a resistence of Nika out of it. The problem is the The Race of Impossible Odds point and the talk outside Vic's house but at the time ocean was still wikining at us. Curious if he will change some dialogues befote S2 drops
Agreed! I feel like SG doesn't rely on it nearly as much. As long as you can find a plausible explanation for the MC and Nami ending up on Nojiko's care, that is. But it does require those script reworks.
 
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Maccabbee

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...
As for the reason William left now, it's because he broke some mafia rules that forbade him from having a relationship with Leia.
...
And, as I've been shown repeatedly, with Katie as well. Will was a player even back in his teens.
 

RNasc4444

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It seems like the MC has a bad relationship with Katie and Leia because he left the family in the past. Has the reason for that ever been revealed? English isn’t my first language, so I sometimes have a hard time understanding everything while playing the game.
It's not really explained. It is implied that he left for multiple reasons. Two of which were because he had a relationship with Leia and kissed Katie at some point.

Why would that make him leave? Because apparently the Mafia didn't like that.
 
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Maccabbee

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It's not really explained. It is implied that he left for multiple reasons. Two of which were because he had a relationship with Leia and kissed Katie at some point.

Why would that make him leave? Because apparently the Mafia didn't like that.
Part of it is also that while he loves Helen, he also seems to be terrified of her when she's angry. Death by snu-snu, perhaps?
 

hoshin0119

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Katie is angry because William and Leia tortured her when they were little. Leia is angry because William left her behind without saying anything when he left.
As for the reason William left now, it's because he broke some mafia rules that forbade him from having a relationship with Leia.
Poor Alexander mistreated in other topics too XD
What do you mean by "mafia rules" exactly? In the game, it shows that the main character left when he was young. Was he actually connected to the mafia in any way?
 
4.00 star(s) 237 Votes