Skummy Ecchi

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Apr 18, 2019
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I don't see Damien as forgivable any time soon. If he goes off to another school and turns his life around, does some good work for one of Rachael or Willabelle's associates then after a few years they could make up with him, but anything short of that would feel very wrong. He went too far for forgiveness to come easy.
That is your decision, but I would like to offer a counterpoint, respectfully.

Forgiveness is not a metric that one can measure out imperically, its based point to point based on how one feels the actions taken have negatively affected people at large. So saying that Damien went too far for forgiveness to come easily, did he really?

He did bad, yes, but in desperation and a time of confusion and uncertainty. Not an excuse for the actions, but rather a lens by which to see why they occurred. He didn't cause us direct harm, he was just a leg man for something worse, and trying to scale down what Ryker was doing. If put in the same shoes, I'm sure many good people can and will take up some less than moral stances if it means getting their loved one the support they need-just because you are out of options.

Emotionally speaking, Damien was manipulated and coerced into aiding Ryker's ambitions, objectively speaking I think in so far as what he perpetrated against us-he is merely an unfortunate soul who really got the short end of plenty of sticks. Humans are fragile, and at the same time, willing to go through a lot of lengths to protect the people they care about. This includes our MC, who got the shit kicked out of him in an effort to ensure everyone else stayed safe. Foolish? Yes, the both of them are. Damien isn't evil, he was just scared and needed help-help that was given to him at a price and that ultimately cost him everything.

Now as for Jasmine, yeah there's no excusing that behavior, and really that isn't a player forgiving Damien moment-that is between Jasmine and Damien and us being there for our big booty lovely lady :). She seems to have written him off, so we should do the same in that avenue, we can be disgusted by how he did this to her but in the end I don't think that falls under the purview of forgiveness that we can be giving out. It's a stance we can take on him personally, but should not affect how we approach how he can begin the process of redemption and moving forwards.

All in all, I think Damien has done far less than any other antagonist of this story so far, being more or less an anti-villain that was set up specifically as a fall guy, for when shit got bad. Did he do wrong? Yes. Should he be punished? Yes. Should that punishment be excessive or extreme to the point of disregarding his motives? No, not really. Leniency I feel, should be granted in this situation, and we should think about what kind of shit we would do if Azel were put in that same instance. As well as if it was just her and us with nobody to help back us up in that moment.

In the end I feel like redemption should come much more impactfully, and sooner, than many people are feeling. Not in so far as all is forgiven and all is forgotten-but that in that same way all of it came crashing down around us. In that we lost what we felt was a good teammate, that so to can a meteoric rise be made back up to show that when not being manipulated and twisted around a person's finger, Damien can do some incredible things in the background that ultimately, at the very least, shows that he was simply dealt a bad hand, and acted poorly with it.

The Jasmine stuff notwithstanding, as I feel that once Jasmine defines she is over it, we should be over it as well. Especially if he is a lot more honest with himself, and doesn't pull this again in future relationships that might be inferred, if he is brought up at all in the future.

so yeah, that's my feels on it, I just kinda picked you cause I'd been seeing those kinds of messages for a while and finally just decided to have my own rebuttal.. No malice is intended, just an academic retort to your stance with my own observations and meditations :)
 

ImperialD

Devoted Member
Oct 24, 2019
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I see Damien as redeemable as he was under enormous pressure and didn't do anything to harm MC and even tried to get him to just leave. Ryker is not. He's just a bastard who was working almost the whole game to harm the MC. He'll either stay in a coma or wind up going up the river. I do think Jasmine will be added to the Harem. That's another black mark on Damien how he hurt her. It would also help the team getting Damien back as he was still a great player, while Ryker was mediocre and his attitude would hurt more than even a decent player's skills would help.
yeah i say fuck Damien .. he's a lying ass fuck that can burn in hell before i forgive that piece of shit ..... i'm saying this with all love and sincerity :devilish:
 

JGNeon

Active Member
Feb 24, 2021
595
1,798
Regarding Damien, I can agree that it's complicated when it comes to his future forgiveness and/or redemption. Yes, he was coerced by Ryker while in an emotionally unstable state. Yes, he tried to minimize the "damage" by under-reporting what he saw while spying on MC. But, he also treated Jasmine like she didn't exist, and whether or not that's "just" between Jasmine and Damien, that kind of shitty treatment doesn't sit well with MC when it comes to someone he cares about. Damien also broke the team's trust (as did Kenji) by their behavior, so there's that.

Honestly, I don't see any redemption of Damien in the near future, unless he does something extremely miraculous, but even then, the positive impact on Damien would be minor (given his betrayal in the past).
 
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ZTex

Engaged Member
Apr 3, 2019
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i hope you all ( that like Damien ) realize that he got transferred to another school .. so seeing him again is not likely (y)
I mean, is it wrong to enjoy the best written character in the game ?

So far he's the only character not to be exceedingly one note. Now, work in progress and things can and probably will change but saying that he's gone and forgotten is pretty silly. We know the MC isn't going to forgive him and that yes he's transferring schools to be closer to his mother and is getting assistance from Willabelle in doing so but that doesn't remove the chance of another interaction or us seeing him again. Unless you want to write off his history with the other characters he's wronged and just let that be a loose end.

My personal feelings are that Damien could and probably should show up at least twice more. One so Jasmine can get closure and Mackey (i think thats who he was with or was it Lee.../shrug) can take a side. The other to show the PC and Willabelle that their efforts weren't in vain when it comes to providing him some help. After that narratively, if we see him again or not i don't care. If BD decides he's better served as just a face in the crowd or as a player on another team is his choice.
 

ImperialD

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Oct 24, 2019
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I mean, is it wrong to enjoy the best written character in the game ?

So far he's the only character not to be exceedingly one note. Now, work in progress and things can and probably will change but saying that he's gone and forgotten is pretty silly. We know the MC isn't going to forgive him and that yes he's transferring schools to be closer to his mother and is getting assistance from Willabelle in doing so but that doesn't remove the chance of another interaction or us seeing him again. Unless you want to write off his history with the other characters he's wronged and just let that be a loose end.

My personal feelings are that Damien could and probably should show up at least twice more. One so Jasmine can get closure and Mackey (i think thats who he was with or was it Lee.../shrug) can take a side. The other to show the PC and Willabelle that their efforts weren't in vain when it comes to providing him some help. After that narratively, if we see him again or not i don't care. If BD decides he's better served as just a face in the crowd or as a player on another team is his choice.
she got closure when Damien called her at your house and broke it off with her ....he was with Ryker and those others that hung out with Ryker ... you forget the bowling alley ? and when he followed Jasmine to your newer house to talk with you one last time ?
and your correct when saying its all upto BD anyways ... but we'll just have to wait and see i would think ;)
 

ZTex

Engaged Member
Apr 3, 2019
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she got closure when Damien called her at your house and broke it off with her ....he was with Ryker and those others that hung out with Ryker ... you forget the bowling alley ? and when he followed Jasmine to your newer house to talk with you one last time ?
and your correct when saying its all upto BD anyways ... but we'll just have to wait and see i would think ;)
He never interacted with Jasmine, so how could Jasmine get any closure from that ?
All Jasmine got was the MC huggin her and telling her what a dick he was. That's not closure.

She needs to be the one to have the face to face with him to properly vent / slap the shit outta him should she choose to. Crying in the arms of the MC only continues the damsel in distress personality she had and we know she's not given her own desires to do more.
 

ImperialD

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Oct 24, 2019
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He never interacted with Jasmine, so how could Jasmine get any closure from that ?
All Jasmine got was the MC huggin her and telling her what a dick he was. That's not closure.

She needs to be the one to have the face to face with him to properly vent / slap the shit outta him should she choose to. Crying in the arms of the MC only continues the damsel in distress personality she had and we know she's not given her own desires to do more.
so your saying she wasn't laying on your couch and Damien called her ???? play the game again ............................
 

ImperialD

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Oct 24, 2019
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I'm saying that's not closure. You and i have very different definitions of the word if you think a phone call is getting closure.
yeah i would think your right about that .... i'm done with this convo ... its going nowhere :oops:
last tidbit of info .. did she not say she knew they where ending ????
 

ZTex

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Apr 3, 2019
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yeah i would think your right about that .... i'm done with this convo ... its going nowhere :oops:
last tidbit of info .. did she not say she knew they where ending ????
He never interacted with Jasmine, so how could Jasmine get any closure from that ?
All Jasmine got was the MC huggin her and telling her what a dick he was. That's not closure.

She needs to be the one to have the face to face with him to properly vent / slap the shit outta him should she choose to. Crying in the arms of the MC only continues the damsel in distress personality she had and we know she's not given her own desires to do more.
Emphasis added since it keeps being missed.
 

ImperialD

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Oct 24, 2019
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look you don't have to be that way ... i was being nice i had thought .. and yes i had seen what was being said .. and no you don't need eye contact to break it off with someone Damien didn't .... but i guess you dont see the trees because the forest is in the way ....

final comment i'm gonna make ....on this subject ... take care :)
 
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ZTex

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Apr 3, 2019
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look you don't have to be that way ... i was being nice i had thought .. and yes i had seen what was being said .. and no you don't need eye contact to break it off with someone Damien didn't .... but i guess you dont see the trees because the forest is in the way ....

final comment i'm gonna make ....on this subject ... take care :)
Speaking of not seeing the trees from the forest. Yikes man.

So you're saying Jasmine should lower herself to Damien's standards and just ghost the man, never get any recourse for that note she wrote or have any revelation that she was being used by Damien to hide the fact that he was in the closet.

Jasmine should narratively be given the chance to confront him and get closure. I get you think that a phone call is the way to go, but that does nothing for Jasmine as a character. If you happen to like the Damnsel in Distress Archetype or the Frail Lady who needs a capable man to handle her affairs fine. That's not how Jasmine has been portrayed and it would serve her better to be the one to handle her own affairs rather than the MC.
 
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