tslojr

Member
Apr 8, 2021
241
1,290
I just think people get too hot-headed. I think it's better to be supportive and kind, rather than adding stress and criticism and endless suggestions on what he should do with the story.
That's an interesting thing to say when you literally started out your comment by insulting Grif.
Your examples of multiple storylines seems intentionally obtuse.
 
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Goopgoop

Newbie
Sep 10, 2022
64
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That's an interesting thing to say when you literally started out your comment by insulting Grif.
That's not an insult. His comparison was way off the mark. There's a big difference between a hypothetical combination of shows like NCIS, Numb3rs, 7th Heaven, Vampire Diaries and Gossip Girl all into one... and a VN about a college basketball star with a large female following getting pulled into a charity org and getting into a couple fights. His comparison also insinuates that each of those shows have only one overarching storyline. Which they don't. Every show has a core theme or concept, usually with a new broad story arc per season and, especially with detective series, often individual storylines per episode. Not to mention character development and relationship development weaved throughout.

If you can't see that that's an argument about the subject and not an ad hominem, then I dunno what to tell you other than "You're wrong.". He turned my initial argument about immersive worlds having a multitude of story lines into a strawman by creating a false analogy and criticizing the result. There's nothing hot-headed about pointing that out. The reason I was so direct about it is because he's smart enough not to do something like that unintentionally.

I don't get angry debating people. In fact, I really enjoy it.
 

Grif1001

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Aug 30, 2017
1,473
3,674
That's not an insult. His comparison was way off the mark. There's a big difference between a hypothetical combination of shows like NCIS, Numb3rs, 7th Heaven, Vampire Diaries and Gossip Girl all into one... and a VN about a college basketball star with a large female following getting pulled into a charity org and getting into a couple fights. His comparison also insinuates that each of those shows have only one overarching storyline. Which they don't. Every show has a core theme or concept, usually with a new broad story arc per season and, especially with detective series, often individual storylines per episode. Not to mention character development and relationship development weaved throughout.

If you can't see that that's an argument about the subject and not an ad hominem, then I dunno what to tell you other than "You're wrong.". He turned my initial argument about immersive worlds having a multitude of story lines into a strawman by creating a false analogy and criticizing the result. There's nothing hot-headed about pointing that out. The reason I was so direct about it is because he's smart enough not to do something like that unintentionally.

I don't get angry debating people. In fact, I really enjoy it.
Yes, I intentionally overexagerated my storyline example. It is a common debate tactic to take what someone is doing/saying and extend it to an almost ridiculous point to show the flaw in the process. But, since you didn't like that, let's back it down a bit. Sticking with the Paramount example, lets take another look at this by considering Star Trek. Paramount owns Star Trek. The are, however, wise enough to make multiple shows, instead of one that jumps back and forth all over space and time. Currently they have Discovery, Strange New Worlds, and Lower Decks, and while they have all had crossovers (yes, the Lower Decks cartoons were on an episove of SNW) they are not one show.
I currently have plans for 17 AVN's. I will probably have to turn those over to a child one day though, because I am not going to try and put them all in one game. (Actually I hope to build a studio that employees up to 4 teams of 3 and do 4 games at once. but that's beside the point.)

To be continued... have to take my kid to school.
 

Grif1001

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Aug 30, 2017
1,473
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I also think you're making a lot of assumptions about the story that come out of left field. I don't think it's fair to say there hasn't been any basketball. At first it was mostly training and getting to know the team. And there were a lot of problems with the team. Lots of practice, and gradually solving all those problems. Then the match against Jax' team. The story is definitely there. The MC himself also said relatively recently that he wants to focus on basketball more. So it's safe to assume that the story will shift back to that.
I never said that there "hasn't been any basketball" I said that it has "barely started", and yes, the MC did recently say that he want's to focus on basketball more; however, this is not the first time he has made similar comments regarding basketball and/or practices, and there has been no follow through in those regards. Actions speak louder than words, and the characters actions don't support that he will move his focus back to basketball. So, no, based on his past history, it is not "safe to assume that the story will shift back" to a basketball focus. His focus is, and almost certainly will remain on the family that he has built for himself, adding to that family, and dealing with lots of extemporaneous/impromptu stuff.

The assumption that they'll move again is pretty unwaranted. It's a big safe house with plenty of room. That's the thing about side-characters. They don't all move in and become major LIs. So it's good padding that creates interesting side-stories that don't gravitate towards the center.
These two thoughts seem a bit disconnected, but... in the unfinished 1st chapter alone we move what... four times? First we move to college, but not in a simple go off to college and always have a home to go back to way, no. We move mom with us so that is a complete move, then we move again in less than a day into another house, then a short time later we move again and give out current/old-new house to someone else even though we don't own that house. Which is weird. So, yeah, not 4 times, but 4 houses. Also, you say it's a big safe house, but people are coming and going there all the time. So yeah, there's no way his location is secret or secure. As for the side characters comment, yeah, side characters don't become major LI's... Except if we asked who people consider to be side character and who are major LI's I'm not sure you could get this thread to come to a consensus. Is Harper a major LI? Is Rachel, Is Anna? He keeps adding all the time. there are girls living in his home who aren't his girlfriends, and others who are his girlfriends that don't live with him...but he wants to keep them all safe so he continues to invite them to live with him. Eventually they will outgrow that house if he keeps collecting girls. So, yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say that at some point he will have to move again. Unless that house has a multi-leveled basement beneath it.

I just think people get too hot-headed. I think it's better to be supportive and kind, rather than adding stress and criticism and endless suggestions on what he should do with the story. Especially if you want him to keep creating it. It's counter-productive to make him feel like crap about what he's made. When a painter is creating a painting you don't complain that it doesn't look good yet before he's finished. Because you don't know what they envision as the final product. A vision which hasn't even entirely crystalized.
The reason that we are able to discuss, critique, and make comments and suggestions here is because BD never comes to F95. He has stated years ago that he won't come here ever again. So don't worry so much about his sensitivities. And I have been supportive and kind where he is concerned in the past and if you really read what I have written nothing I have said is out of any animosity. it is purely out of concern.

I, on the other hand do engage with the community here. I consider their comments and concerns and often share my thoughts about how those concerns will be delt with in the future. I am even more active with my Patreon and Discord as well, and I frequently chat with my discord members daily both in my server and through dm's. I know not everyone will like what I do. Some times that critique helps me grow, sometimes it gives me new ideas. sometimes it strengthens my resolve about what I already plan. I don't see it as counter productive when someone voices concern, unless it is purely useless cussing about something with no offer of a possible solution. As a dev, I welcome questions and suggestions that promote creativity. I will often ask trusted supporters their opinions in order to obtain feedback. I honestly think that if BD did read this thread and look at it objectively, it would possibly help him make some positive adjustments. Feedback isn't always positive, but it is rarely useless.

Oh, and also, As an artist and graduate of the Art Institute of Dallas, I have absolutely seen art instructors look at unfinished works and complain. "You need to redo this." "Your perspective is off here." "Why is this blue instead of red?" "What are you even trying to say here?" "This looks very convoluted and confused." It's that little push that causes us to try harder and do better.
 

Wolfeszorn

Active Member
Jul 24, 2021
623
2,074
I never said that there "hasn't been any basketball" I said that it has "barely started", and yes, the MC did recently say that he want's to focus on basketball more; however, this is not the first time he has made similar comments regarding basketball and/or practices, and there has been no follow through in those regards. Actions speak louder than words, and the characters actions don't support that he will move his focus back to basketball. So, no, based on his past history, it is not "safe to assume that the story will shift back" to a basketball focus. His focus is, and almost certainly will remain on the family that he has built for himself, adding to that family, and dealing with lots of extemporaneous/impromptu stuff
don´t forget that BD himself said at one point, that this game about a famous basketball player who went to this school to assist the local basketball team isn´t about basketball, it´s about impregnating as many women as possible. :ROFLMAO: soooo.... yeah
 

Dickbutttt

Newbie
Jun 12, 2020
24
72
View attachment 3475657

Dev Report #35 (March 24th, 2024)

Yo!

I made a book-sized report last week, this one isn't short but it's smaller.


As I mentioned in the last report, I will not be sharing any release dates until things are compiled and ready to be uploaded.
My current plan is to finish this scene I've been working on for Episode 14 before making any final decisions for the ending of Episode 13 where I'll then re-evaluate how I feel about it and make any changes I deem necessary before uploading it for all of you to play.

The update will be available to all tiers upon release, no tier timings.
It's shaping up to be 800+ renders and 20+ animations. (400 renders from the end of Episode 13, and 400 renders from the start of Episode 14.)
I do not plan on including all of Episode 14 in the upcoming update but Episode 14 will be the last update of Chapter 1 of Season 2. Meaning Episode 14 will include all of Days 37 and 38.
The plan is for Episode 14 to be around 900-1000 renders long so I'd say it's somewhere between 40%-50% complete.

It has been a very productive week, I was able to make 124 new renders and 3 new animations and another 70 renders for the redo. I added Armani, Aubrey, and Azel to the character sheets channel on discord, I made a lot of progress on finishing the basement and other rooms in the main home (Won't be seen in the upcoming update but they will be needed for the one following it), and I've almost finished writing for all of the scenes in Chapter 2.
(And just a quick heads up that chapter 2 will be quite a bit shorter than chapter 1 was in terms of render length but Chapter 2 will take us from Day 39 to Day 52. As mentioned before, there will be little time skips where the MC focuses on training so these days won't be giga-packed like Day 32 was.)

So, I'm afraid there's still nothing concrete to share right now, I should finish this scene for Episode 14 this week and I hope that gives me the ability to speak with a little more certainty in the next report.
And as far as pausing pledges go, I'm currently unsure if I will be this month or not. I want to, but after pausing 5 of the last 6 months I'm getting to a point where I'm not comfortably able to. Every month that was paused I continued to work, I was mainly pausing because I set goals that I was unable to meet.
In the event that I do unpause, everything that will be released in April will be made available to all former patrons via the discord so there is no pressure to have to keep your pledge active. You won't miss any posts as long as you join the discord by linking your discord to your patreon or subscribestar account.

That's all I have to share for now, I'm going to go get back to work!
Once again thank you all for your patience and understanding. I truly appreciate it. Have a wonderful week and I'll talk to all of you soon!
This seems to be going in the right direction. No more bullshit dates just telling us what he's working on approximately how much to look forward to (assuming he's not lying again) and relatively straight to the point.
 

MrLKX

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2021
1,535
2,461
I don't understand why the dev put a black stripe on the MC's face
Because it would be much more challenging to build the renders in such a way that the protagonist's face would be hidden by various elements (hands, arms, other people in general etc) or angles. Exactly the same with DITLO: Harper. And for what he does, he doesn't even have to go into Paint for 5 minutes to solve it. But hey, at least that allows him more time to design unnecessary birthday renders and another 12 dozen ladies who also need birthday renders. Apart from that, let's be honest: the only lady in this VN who still has her senses together is Jamie's mother, at least that was my last stand with her. Of course, she may have been duckfaced in the meantime.
 

Akabakka

Member
Jul 12, 2023
168
391
This seems to be going in the right direction. No more bullshit dates just telling us what he's working on approximately how much to look forward to (assuming he's not lying again) and relatively straight to the point.
I guess it depends of each person's outlook . I just see claims of some "sweaty and solid good work" from a notorious liar , while in that same post , he admits having nothing concrete to share yet .
 

Goopgoop

Newbie
Sep 10, 2022
64
62
Yes, I intentionally overexagerated my storyline example. It is a common debate tactic to take what someone is doing/saying and extend it to an almost ridiculous point to show the flaw in the process. But, since you didn't like that, let's back it down a bit. Sticking with the Paramount example, lets take another look at this by considering Star Trek. Paramount owns Star Trek. The are, however, wise enough to make multiple shows, instead of one that jumps back and forth all over space and time. Currently they have Discovery, Strange New Worlds, and Lower Decks, and while they have all had crossovers (yes, the Lower Decks cartoons were on an episove of SNW) they are not one show.
I currently have plans for 17 AVN's. I will probably have to turn those over to a child one day though, because I am not going to try and put them all in one game. (Actually I hope to build a studio that employees up to 4 teams of 3 and do 4 games at once. but that's beside the point.)

To be continued... have to take my kid to school.
Reductio ad absurdum often leads to fallacious arguments if you're not careful. Whilst there is a thing such as proof/refutation by contradiction in mathematics and propositional logic, you need to be able to logically derive falsehood for it to work. Put simply, if a proposition and its negation can both be derived from a premise, it proves the premise false.

My proposition is that immersive fictional worlds are built from many story lines. Rather than disproving it, your argument actually supports my proposition. You can take any of the Star Trek shows you mentioned, and you'll find a multitude of story lines in each of them. The fictional world of Star Trek is made immersive by having all these story lines, both within and across these various shows.

Let's say in the world of WVM, the creator wanted to make the world more immersive so he decided to create a spin-off. Split the story lines, like you want him to. Would that spin-off be about the same character, in the same time-span as the original? You can't extract just the basketball into one series and the charity in another, and the fights in another. All these events are related to each other, so they wouldn't feel right being separated. Each of those series would skip considerable parts of the story. But if he made a Damian spin-off that shows what happens to Damian after the events in the main series, or a prequel about how the MC got to where he is, that would be a spin-off just like we see in television.

As for "The reason that we are able to discuss, critique, and make comments and suggestions here is because BD never comes to F95."... That's utterly illogical to me. If he has said he will never come here again (probably because he got sick of people doing exactly what you're doing...), then regardless of what word you use, all you're really doing is complaining to feel better about your own frustration. It's ultimately a huge waste of your time, like shouting into the void.

And finally I wanted to say something about your art institute teachers. It exemplifies what I hate about art school. Who is the teacher to say something should be red instead of blue? Or whether something needs to be re-done? My creative development wasn't quite so limiting as the academic process. Art is in the eye of the beholder, which is why ultimately an artist should be selfish. You can't make something that everyone enjoys. An artist makes what THEY enjoy making, and they hope that other people can appreciate what they've made. An artist that cares too much about what other people think paralyzes their own creative process. Art school centers way too much on the consumer, because it's about creating "marketable" art.

My mother went to art school long long ago (she's in her 70s now). It was still a vocational school, but teachers taught techniques and skills, and didn't impose artistic focus to the degree modern schools do. I've seen her create all kinds of art in my lifetime. From wood-working to paintings, to little ceramic figures. Furniture, metal solding, the inside walls of our house, the list goes on and on. She always used to say "You will never finish if you're too perfectionistic. What feels like a flaw now can turn out to be a beautiful detail in the finished work.". I've got a talent for writing, English lit teachers always spoke very highly of me, but I write solely for myself. I just like to create stories and imagine places that don't exist. Even if I were to try to get something published, I would never write something for the sole purpose of being published. I write for me, if other people like it, good for them. If not, nobody's forcing them to read it.

I'm not going to respond to the self-plug you insert into the discussion. It makes it sound like you're more motivated by jealousy of his success than anything else. I've thus far held myself back from downloading your games and grading the writing to see if you live in a glass house. But I won't, because as I've made clear, that's not what artistic expression is about. I'm not here to judge your creativity. As long as you like what you've made, that's enough for me not to disparage it. Because it's an expression of you, and to disparage it would be to disparage you. I wonder what kind of games you would create if you let your imagination run free.
 

Grif1001

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Aug 30, 2017
1,473
3,674
Ok, well, it's clear that you are just going to argue with anything that I say, so there's no real point in continuing to discuss anything with you. The only final comment that I will make is to refer to your mother's quote...

"You will never finish if you're too perfectionistic. What feels like a flaw now can turn out to be a beautiful detail in the finished work."

This right here is another huge part of BD's problem. On numerous ocasions he has said that the delays were due to it not being perfect for him. He also has said that he can't hire anyone to help him because he is too much of a perfectionist to let any of it out be out of his control.

I am not sugesting that he make the game perfect. I am actually sugesting that he reduce distractions so that there are less details for him to fixate his perfectionism on so that he can progress easier. You say you are willing to just let him do whatever he wants because you don't want to stifle his creativity. Unfortunantly his unbridaled creativity clashes with his perfectionism and causes him to hit a point where one stifles the other, and he is at risk of letting his need for perfection to keep him from finishing.

Anyway, good luck to you. It's obvious to everyone that you are going to pitch your tent in BD's camp and defend him regardless of anything else that anyone says. Even people who are trying to be constructive. Anyway. Hope that works out for you.
 
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