VN Ren'Py WVM [S2 Ch. 1 Ep. 13 B6] [Braindrop]

[PhazeUFO]

BD is probably less interested in what's going on here in the thread anyway, but slowly negative statements are now also piling up among his patrons. Giving up the social stuff might work for him, but right now it sounds more like: see nothing, hear nothing, say nothing to me.

Well, he did state that he had to become far less active here for his own mental health, so I assume he was pretty concerned with what was going on here.

 

[jonnyd901]

The negativity is his own doing...
He could have avoided all that if he had just continued to work on the game with constant updates on a reasonable schedule.

Instead he went the ICSTOR or Dammed route. ---> Milky City = Dead; Radiant = 99.79% Dead.

Could have been avoided for all those games... but no... it wasn't meant to be.

100% right plenty of other games like being a dik,artemis,AOA,leap of faith just to name a few have months between their updates some even close to half a year or more. Like you said they work on their games with updates,previews or renders every week to keep the fans interested. They won't even think about announcing an update till its ready that is working for them that's the only thing BD got to do he'll get the fans back behind him and feel better himself doing it at is own pace

 

[Ozzfest]

Well, he did state that he had to become far less active here for his own mental health, so I assume he was pretty concerned with what was going on here.

I'm not sure about that part. This is not his patreon or discord where he kicks/block everyone who is pointing a finger. Even if looks toxic, people here complain for a reason. Scroll back a year ago... everyone is talking nice about the game (besides small trolls Ofc). Empty promises, that's what we see right now. Even if the game updates with 700 renders soon, the harm was done already.

 

[moskyx]

Well, he came here and answered some comments (and with quite a positive attitude, may I say) just a few weeks ago, after one of these failed deadlines. This, of course, made some people to shut the fuck up or even backpedal in their criticism, because we are usually that brave

 

[datfcknhunter]

Where can i find the Gallery mod? And how can i use it?

 

[Bev_]

Where can i find the Gallery mod? And how can i use it?

In the OP. But it's for v.0.9.5

 

[StantheMan69]

Honestly the whole pirate site arguement is a double edged sword.

However i agree fully that BD saying he could get 2 to 3 updatea out in June and we probably wont even see one is frustrating. I also agree that peiple deserve to be upset.

However i completely disagree that, that entitles people to spew their anger in the toxic ways we have been seeing. Is it everyone, no its not but there are a good amount of people being toxic arseholes.

If posting about doubting him or making jokes about June 29th or what year is what your are talking about as being toxic. That you have a way loser idea of what toxic is. If you're talking about name calling insulting or threats of violence than I can agree that is toxic and shouldn't be on here.

But for what I have been seeing it mostly just people displaying distrust in him delivering the update when he said he would and than pointing it out when he posted that he would not have it done by the end of the month and could break it up. Giving a small one at the end of the month. Then the rest the first week of July. Unless people would rather have it all in the first week of July. I probably haven't read every post, so there could be some that are toxic

 

[bluetack_man]

Like you said they work on their games with updates,previews or renders every week to keep the fans interested. They won't even think about announcing an update till its ready that is working for them that's the only thing BD got to do

This is the main issue, isnt it. The constant posts to say the next big update is just days away. Most other devs would never dream of making such an announcement unless it really was true, because they understand the reputational damage that would come if they didn't follow through.

The fact that there has still been nothing, and the big 2k update which was nearly finished 6 months ago still hasn't been posted, and whatever hes worked on up to now still hasn't been posted, the only logical answer is that... there isn't anything? Or yknow, not nearly anything as much as has been claimed - maybe he has a few hundred renders and some ideas scribbled down in a notepad... He has been making stuff up to generate hype and keep the patreons paying. Its the only logical answer. I'm sure his intentions are true, he intends to do the things he says but just hasn't and can't bring himself to admit it.

I wonder why he makes the claim that the update is ready to go, even when it isn't? Is it really just a spiral of perfectionism? A spiral of editing and re-editing and never being happy with the product? But if so, why claim its basically ready if hes still planning to rework it?

Its got to be about the money, I'm sorry but it just has to be. No one is this naive.

 

[jonnyd901]

I'm not sure about that part. This is not his patreon or discord where he kicks/block everyone who is pointing a finger. Even if looks toxic, people here complain for a reason. Scroll back a year ago... everyone is talking nice about the game (besides small trolls Ofc). Empty promises, that's what we see right now. Even if the game updates with 700 renders soon, the harm was done already.

Couldn't have said it better this might be a pirate site but still a very good form of free advertising which can bring you patrons but there is also the other side of coin which can turn people away. Future support for this could be in jeopardy if potential patrons see this on the forums everywhere it will be the case of wait and see before they throw money at it. Annoying fact is though how people would want to do it again incase of getting burned when there are plenty of good devs out there

 

[PhazeUFO]

I'm not sure about that part. This is not his patreon or discord where he kicks/block everyone who is pointing a finger. Even if looks toxic, people here complain for a reason. Scroll back a year ago... everyone is talking nice about the game (besides small trolls Ofc). Empty promises, that's what we see right now. Even if the game updates with 700 renders soon, the harm was done already.

Which part aren't you sure about? His last post in this thread was stating that exact thing. Whether he somehow is aware of what is said here I can't confirm or deny however.

 

[Ozzfest]

Which part aren't you sure about? His last post in this thread was stating that exact thing. Whether he somehow is aware of what is said here I can't confirm or deny however.

Just edited my post with a bigger font instead just bold text.

 

[StantheMan69]

I'm a Patron of BD, and for now, I don't think he's pretending, but has the images and is in a loop where he revisits his stuff and rearranges/reworks it again and again as he told us.
You can argue that that doesn't warrant being supported anymore, even if you believe in what he tells us, but he already delivered a lot and has proven to be trustworthy in the past, so for now for me it's a kind of sick-leave situation where I was willing to further support him for some time before pulling the plug.

But he still has (and from mentionings in his posts he was/is) to be aware of the 'atmosphere' out there. At some point giving new deadlines makes no sense anymore if every single one gets torn down.
And after saying he WILL release everything he has (finished at that point to his liking), he should just DO that, trying to get a foot in the door, showing he CAN hold a deadline and HAS something finished to restore faith and trust where he can, and also show himself that he can release something.

The poll and now being surprised there are people not liking that new change/delay seems either delusional or plain dumb.
Hopefully, he WILL go through with it now and then continue releasing those chunks until he has released everything there is, freeing himself from that baggage and showing us he was legit in his posts.

If those updates aren't coming now, I'll stop my support, until there are released at least a few of them.
Even with all sympathy, I have for him and my trusting in him, at some point you have to get back on your feet.

And like others said - if you make something your sole source of income, it stops being a hobby.
If it stops being something you like to do that's still bad though - no one wins if there is no heart/soul behind it anymore.

I agree that he should enjoy making the game and I hope he can get back to that at some point. I just feel he is making it harder on himself saying he going to have an update on on this or that day and than delaying like he has been. Just let people know your working on it and it will be out when its out.

 

[PhazeUFO]

Just edited my post with a bigger font instead just bold text.

This still doesn't dispute my claim though. I am only saying what he posted was that he had to take a break from this site for his own mental health. I am not claiming it was or wasn't an excuse or that effected his productivity, just that it was what happened. At one point at least he did care about what the thread thought.

 

[moskyx]

This is the main issue, isnt it. The constant posts to say the next big update is just days away. Most other devs would never dream of making such an announcement unless it really was true, because they understand the reputational damage that would come if they didn't follow through.

The fact that there has still been nothing, and the big 2k update which was nearly finished 6 months ago still hasn't been posted, and whatever hes worked on up to now still hasn't been posted, the only logical answer is that... there isn't anything? Or yknow, not nearly anything as much as has been claimed - maybe he has a few hundred renders and some ideas scribbled down in a notepad... He has been making stuff up to generate hype and keep the patreons paying. Its the only logical answer. I'm sure his intentions are true, he intends to do the things he says but just hasn't and can't bring himself to admit it.

I wonder why he makes the claim that the update is ready to go, even when it isn't? Is it really just a spiral of perfectionism? A spiral of editing and re-editing and never being happy with the product? But if so, why claim its basically ready if hes still planning to rework it?

Its got to be about the money, I'm sorry but it just has to be. No one is this naive.

He has been saying he had mental issues basically since day 1, with his impostor syndrome, ADHD, and so on. He said that when he was delivering like a clockwork, it's nothing new, no bullshit invented to justify these recent delays. Unless, of course, you go full paranoid and think he was just paving the ground to 'start milking' more than two years later, which honestly seems like a stretch. When mental issues come into scene I think we should be at least a bit more cautious with our assumptions and take into account that what we consider 'normal' simply doesn't work like that anymore, not even when you are perfectly aware of your issues. You simply can't function.

Let's imagine just for a second he is saying the truth: he renders like mad, thinks he got everything ready to go, then takes another look at it, self-doubt creeps in and he thinks he can improve this a little and that other thing a bit more... and two days later everything is upside down, and people start whining and not only complaining about his delay but accusing him of milking when he is positive he's not doing that, he simply can't deliver what he promised. That is toxic even if unintendedly so.

 

[Ozzfest]

This still doesn't dispute my claim though. I am only saying what he posted was that he had to take a break from this site for his own mental health. I am not claiming it was or wasn't an excuse or that effected his productivity, just that it was what happened. At one point at least he did care about what the thread thought.

And I have said that I'm not sure if that's the true reason why he is "less active here for his own mental health". What part you didn't understand?

 

[PhazeUFO]

And I have said that I'm not sure if that's the true reason why he is "less active here for his own mental health". What part you didn't understand?

I understood it, but it was answering something I never said. I don't know if it's the true reason, just what he said. You can call him a liar all you want, but don't try to put words in my mouth.

He has been saying he had mental issues basically since day 1, with his impostor syndrome, ADHD, and so on. He said that when he was delivering like a clockwork, it's nothing new, no bullshit invented to justify these recent delays. Unless, of course, you go full paranoid and think he was just paving the ground to 'start milking' more than two years later, which honestly seems like a stretch. When mental issues come into scene I think we should be at least a bit more cautious with our assumptions and take into account that what we consider 'normal' simply doesn't work like that anymore, not even when you are perfectly aware of your issues. You simply can't function.

Let's imagine just for a second he is saying the truth: he renders like mad, thinks he got everything ready to go, then takes another look at it, self-doubt creeps in and he thinks he can improve this a little and that other thing a bit more... and two days later everything is upside down, and people start whining and not only complaining about his delay but accusing him of milking when he is positive he's not doing that, he simply can't deliver what he promised. That is toxic even if unintendedly so.

This is what does make the claim more believable though.

 

[bluetack_man]

Let's imagine just for a second he is saying the truth: he renders like mad, thinks he got everything ready to go, then takes another look at it, self-doubt creeps in and he thinks he can improve this a little and that other thing a bit more... and two days later everything is upside down, and people start whining and not only complaining about his delay but accusing him of milking when he is positive he's not doing that, he simply can't deliver what he promised. That is toxic even if unintendedly so.

This is a really good point of course and yeah maybe you are right! Ultimately we'll never know but I don't really buy it myself... if that was true and he was rendering his balls off and had everything ready to go, but tweeked something here and something there... how did 2k turn into 200 renders? He said that he had to rework a locker scene or something, how does that invalidate 2k ready-to-go renders which I assume also includes a few hours worth of gameplay and code?

Unless, of course, you go full paranoid and think he was just paving the ground to 'start milking' more than two years later, which honestly seems like a stretch.

Yep that would be a stretch! And definitely not what I'm suggesting. What I am suggesting is that he was, say, 50% of the way towards his target, and prematurely annouced the big update before it was ready (to generate hype and money) with the intention of delivering, of course. This would also tie in nicely with the ADHD... Then, oh crap, something happened and he can't deliver on the announcement but he also can't take it back... so another excuse is needed, and then another, and another.

And here we are.

 

[jonnyd901]

This is the main issue, isnt it. The constant posts to say the next big update is just days away. Most other devs would never dream of making such an announcement unless it really was true, because they understand the reputational damage that would come if they didn't follow through.

The fact that there has still been nothing, and the big 2k update which was nearly finished 6 months ago still hasn't been posted, and whatever hes worked on up to now still hasn't been posted, the only logical answer is that... there isn't anything? Or yknow, not nearly anything as much as has been claimed - maybe he has a few hundred renders and some ideas scribbled down in a notepad... He has been making stuff up to generate hype and keep the patreons paying. Its the only logical answer. I'm sure his intentions are true, he intends to do the things he says but just hasn't and can't bring himself to admit it.

I wonder why he makes the claim that the update is ready to go, even when it isn't? Is it really just a spiral of perfectionism? A spiral of editing and re-editing and never being happy with the product? But if so, why claim its basically ready if hes still planning to rework it?

Its got to be about the money, I'm sorry but it just has to be. No one is this naive.

This is why I'm putting money into Artemis instead of here I did in the past but until he can get up to other devs standards. Just looking at Artemis now it dropped in January looking like the next update could be in August so that's 7 months. At the moment it's at 2300 renders with 9 scenes to finish but dig.b along with others I've had their problems. He's changed the menu, had to get rid of soundtracks and get new ones composed, altered old scenes even made a substory for one of the characters.
Thinking of this game along with the others with different pathing,soundtracks ect,ect 2k renders should be easily achieved since it ain't as complex as them. Drifty dropped his video last week his update came out the last time this did he's been plagued with problems sorting out L.O.F. but got it there in the end WVM should have easily surpassed these if the 2k renders were done 6 months ago

BD has really got to pull something special together now because there is no damage control to sort it out in the future

 

[Ozzfest]

I understood it, but it was answering something I never said. I don't know if it's the true reason, just what he said. You can call him a liar all you want, but don't try to put words in my mouth.

Are you dense? Calm down and pay attention.
You were saying DB posted here (we all know that) related to him not being active here because his reasons, right? I just quoted your post saying that I doubt the real reason was that. That has nothing to do with you and no one is putting words in your mouth.

 

[Riggnarock]

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Yo

So it's been quite a few days of turmoil.
If it can go wrong it has recently... which tends to be the case when I let myself get into these crunch time scenarios.

I've been awake for about 25 hours now.
I have been stressing to finish these changes before the end of the month because I fucking want to live up to something I set out to do for once but luck isn't on my side right now.
I take adderall for my ADHD and it's been amazing for me 99% of the time but yesterday when I took it, it led me to an all day long panic attack that I did my best to fight through but it was a losing battle.
Anyway, that's not the important bit.

You guys have asked for more transparency so let me explain what exactly has been happening.
I feel like an idiot right now but I'm also happy to have finally fixed one of the issues that have plagued my animations forever.
So keep in mind that WVM is my first game ever and first time ever working on something like this. I've taught myself everything for the most part and I've just figured out a way to do things that work for me.
I've always been someone to try and get things to work on my own... whether it be shit that would break around the house or electronics or whatever.

And I've encountered thousands of issues while making WVM and for 99% of them I just found a way to make it work.
The main problem that has stopped me from being finished with the redone animations is a thing I like to call the "Royal wave".
For example, let's say the MC is "Hugging" a girl from behind and he needs to grab her hips for some extra stability. As he is going in for it he needs to pull himself or her and for that to happen his hands and arms need to stay mostly locked while the rest of his body moves.
To animate that isn't too tough, just put the hands where they need to go right?
Well, in doing so... all of the frames in-between the keyframes have to figure out how exactly to move the arms and hands to make it from point A to point B.
What sucks is that the interpolation always would end up doing something that looked like a royal wave. Where instead of staying locked on it would roll or slide down and then back up into place because that's just how the arm had to move to go between the points.
It was awful and looks awful, I made it work in the past by either just removing the arms from the shot or going frame by frame and posing the hand for each and every single render. Which takes hours and is super easy to fuck up.

This is something I've always struggled with and since I technically could fix it I never really tried to find a better solution.
Like I said, I've been awake for 25 hours now. 20 of those have been spent working on fixing this and another thing that I got fixed as well.
And the solution was so simple that it hurts.
There's a built in tool that lets you lock limbs and such in place and they wont move... and I just didn't know it existed... turning an 8 hour job into a 20 minute job.
I definitely feel foolish but I'm also happy to have learned something new that will help tremendously in the future.


Okay, long explanation just to say that I don't think the 700 render update will be ready by June 29th or 30th. But it won't be much longer at all. There is a 300 render update that's pretty much ready to go though.
I've been stressing super fucking hard about getting out a solid update before the month's end.
I tried to tweak too much. I've definitely been feeling the pressure to have to put out something good so I tried to add stuff or make something look better but it mainly led to just more frustration and stress. Not my best play.
I'm human, I've been through a fuck ton recently so I'm not gonna beat myself up.

I know a lot of you are frustrated as well and just know that I've never once tried to dupe any of you or anything.
WVM is my hobby and I do this for fun. Stressing this hard about updates and all that is the complete opposite of fun and I'll be honest when I say that I'm feeling pretty jaded about a lot of things and I desperately want to get past this. I want it out more than you do... is what I'm trying to say.
and if you aren't comfortable supporting me right now I completely understand. You owe me nothing. You've played and enjoyed my game and that's all I could ever ask for.
If you're feeling any sort of doubt then please remove your pledge but please join the discord first so you can still play the chunks as they come out.
You can always rejoin when I'm back on my shit.


Okay, so main point of this post time.
I've spent a lot of time stressing about how to deliver this update right now. I was trying to think of what the majority would want and then it hit me that I literally have the ability to poll that.
I'll admit I'm reluctant to since the last poll didn't go very well but fuck it.


So the two options are.

A:
"Release them in smaller chunks. The first one (300-ish renders) on the 29th and the other (400-ish renders) the moment it is finished (Likely July 1st-3rd)"

or

B:
"Wait and release them together (700-ish renders) the moment it is finished. (July 1st-3rd)"


As far as my personal opinion goes: I do believe the two chunks together make for a better update. But I also have no issues splitting it up especially given the circumstances. I'm cool with either.
I know my word doesn't mean a whole lot right now when it comes to release times... but these are being stuck to.
If A is chosen it will likely be released toward 8-9pm EST as I have things I have to do during that day.
Either way, something is being released soon or I'll pause pledges until 2024.

Poll ends at 4am EST. Whichever has majority vote will be the one I go with.
And this post will self destruct after whichever vote is picked gets released.


And as always, thank you all so much for everything.

A - 26 %

B - 73 %

233 votes

Or: C - Release it as it is currently, you will eventualy find things to tweak/modify/fix later on anyway, even if its the improved version you're releasing in a few days.
i guess that option was there, for the A+B=99% and the 1% voted for the as it is currently