VN Ren'Py Completed A Moment of Bliss [v5.0.1 Final] [Lockheart]

[Uthuriel]

People have an issue where the girls don't have a say, it's ingrained into them. That is the BIG issue, the science pill was hard to swallow but the whole thing is like trying to swallow a can of pop whole.
This is the second game of the series and up to now the farthest reach we have had is Suzy which is easier to digest seeing how much we hear about AI IRL at this time, pushing boundaries but still within scope of what we know. Genetics is so far out of left field it just does not sit right.
Then there is the point of we already had the story of A New Home which covered this but did so from the start. (It being Genetics)

Up to now the story has been fantasticle as in 1 in 10 billion chance this could happen, its very unlikely but is still plausable. Now it seems Sci-Fi or Supernatural.

I think genetics is something that shouldn't be touched in a game that has incest in it... for me it pushes the whole think too far to reality.
And I mean both, the desire to do it and the children that might happen through it.

 

[PervyParadox]

Well I was thinking about a theory that Suzy just bullshited Rose to make her accept her desires more, but I guess the thing being a family trait is better than a genetic alteration. Still feel that it's unecessary, but it does feel more natural at least.

Edit : Okay, just replayed the scene, I do love some Westermarck Effect reference and it does make it so much better and easier to accept.

 

[Walter Victor]

Hey Fans,

It turns out there's quite a few people that were rather upset about one of the revelations in A Moment of Bliss. I decided to walk back one of the reveals, and make a minor adjustment to it. This won't impact the story moving forward, but it does seem like this tweak is vitally important to a lot of people.

I'm not going to pretend I understand why this is such a big deal, but I want the fans to be able to enjoy my work and this is a small adjustment that is easy enough to make. It should right the ship for everyone that didn't like the revelation, and not disrupt the fans who didn't mind it. Nor will it significantly impact the rest of the story.

So, here is the updated version on Chapter 2 Part 2. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't played it yet. So if you've already played Chapter 2 Part 2 and want to know what I changed instead of playing through it again, message me here or on Discord.

Thanks for all the support, and I'm sorry if the last release was upsetting for anyone.

MEGA

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Spoiler: What he changed

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Thanks for posting this. A lot of people will like this adjustment.

Just an FYI though, when you post a developer's update, you need to 'Report' your post, so that the new update can be incorporated into the OP. I have done that for this update, and the OP now contains v2.2.1.

 

[NewTricks]

Hey Fans,

It turns out there's quite a few people that were rather upset about one of the revelations in A Moment of Bliss. I decided to walk back one of the reveals, and make a minor adjustment to it. This won't impact the story moving forward, but it does seem like this tweak is vitally important to a lot of people.

I'm not going to pretend I understand why this is such a big deal, but I want the fans to be able to enjoy my work and this is a small adjustment that is easy enough to make. It should right the ship for everyone that didn't like the revelation, and not disrupt the fans who didn't mind it. Nor will it significantly impact the rest of the story.

So, here is the updated version on Chapter 2 Part 2. I don't want to spoil anything for anyone who hasn't played it yet. So if you've already played Chapter 2 Part 2 and want to know what I changed instead of playing through it again, message me here or on Discord.

Thanks for all the support, and I'm sorry if the last release was upsetting for anyone.

MEGA

PC Mac Android

Google

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Spoiler: What he changed

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I don't know why everybody got so upset. I just assumed that Rose's family came from West Virginia but I was pleased to hear that I was wrong.

 

[Walter Victor]

I don't know why everybody got so upset. I just assumed that Rose's family came from West Virginia but I was pleased to hear that I was wrong.

Actually, that's more likely after the alteration.

 

[Ramagar]

I don't know why everybody got so upset. I just assumed that Rose's family came from West Virginia but I was pleased to hear that I was wrong.

They are from Alabama, not West Virginia

 

[Ghostlyunknown]

I can't speak for elsewhere but at least on this board the test tube thing was not the big issue per say (still far fetched compared to the rest of the story so far). The issue people have is the love that has been established from the daughters no longer feels genuine but something that would happen regardless of who MC was. As is now it would seem like if he was a PoS to them they still would want to have sex with him only just angry sex. It makes what they feel as a lie and that does not sit well with many it seems.

This is my take on what myself and others have said here.

I didn't play the original version where it was an experiment, but with the current version it just says a "predisposition" towards family, and no Westermarck Effect (i.e. no in-built aversion to it). If the level of attraction caused by the experiment was phrased the same way, then then this is a bit of an overreaction. Predisposition towards and "no choice" are two completely different things.

You can have a predisposition towards brunettes, but still have a happy and fulfilling life with a blonde or redhead. It just means you find brunettes more attractive as a baseline.

Seriously, after reading this thread, I was expecting it to be much worse than it was, like date-rapey levels. Though admittedly, I played the tweaked version, so if the level of experiment-caused attraction was phrased to be significantly higher, then I apologize.

 

[Avaron1974]

so if the level of experiment-caused attraction was phrased to be significantly higher, then I apologize.

Basically, the father of Rose, so the young girls grandad, was created in a test tube by scientists and they made him attracted to his own family.

It basically took away any feeling from it and made it all the result of an experiment. Like they didn't love each other because they felt an emotional attachment, they did so because it programmed into their genes.

 

[riichidesu]

So in the original version thanks to grandpa they all genetically attracted to family? Was the attraction compulsory? I mean Rose married the MC and at least at first it seems they were happy(and sure I can see how the genetics can explain the problems with Here and MC in the sexual area) and Rose's Brother seems very happy with his girlfriend. If not compulsory then the response above is still valid, but well I also did not play the original so I can't say for sure

 

[Avaron1974]

So in the original version thanks to grandpa they all genetically attracted to family? Was the attraction compulsory? I mean Rose married the MC and at least at first it seems they were happy(and sure I can see how the genetics can explain the problems with Here and MC in the sexual area) and Rose's Brother seems very happy with his girlfriend. If not compulsory then the response above is still valid, but well I also did not play the original so I can't say for sure

Yes it was compulsory.

Rose stated she stopped having sex with the MC because she was attracted to her kids.

When she got with the MC they didn't have the kids so it wasn't an issue.

 

[OmegaLord]

So in the original version thanks to grandpa they all genetically attracted to family? Was the attraction compulsory? I mean Rose married the MC and at least at first it seems they were happy(and sure I can see how the genetics can explain the problems with Here and MC in the sexual area) and Rose's Brother seems very happy with his girlfriend. If not compulsory then the response above is still valid, but well I also did not play the original so I can't say for sure

I feel this is a plot hole that was not thought through, or at the least has not been explained.
It is highly possible that there were attractions between Rose, her father and brother. That the discovery of the relationship caused a large amount of envy and caused Rose to take legal actions against her father and the inaction of her brother to testify caused further fracturing.
As the story is incomplete at this time it leaves a lot of speculation.

 

[dolfe67]

It was an overreaction imo. I'm always a little annoyed when devs give in to players' backlash and don't stick to their vision. Even though in this case it's not much

 

[OmegaLord]

I didn't play the original version where it was an experiment, but with the current version it just says a "predisposition" towards family, and no Westermarck Effect (i.e. no in-built aversion to it). If the level of attraction caused by the experiment was phrased the same way, then then this is a bit of an overreaction. Predisposition towards and "no choice" are two completely different things.

You can have a predisposition towards brunettes, but still have a happy and fulfilling life with a blonde or redhead. It just means you find brunettes more attractive as a baseline.

Seriously, after reading this thread, I was expecting it to be much worse than it was, like date-rapey levels. Though admittedly, I played the tweaked version, so if the level of experiment-caused attraction was phrased to be significantly higher, then I apologize.

It was not explained as a predisposition as such. It was given much more in "He got his wires crossed" and it's inherent.
MC is likely to feel he is date-rapey due to the revelation that the girls are just inherently interested in members of their own family and while he was unaware until now he has accepted with little reluctance.

I'm not gonna download the game again just for 5min worth of rereading to see what was changed so I can't comment on how it comes across now, but based on the synopsis I saw was they were just changing it from being lab experiment to some kind of legacy trait still does not address the issue people have.

Your example is also bad, it would be much more closely related to being gay or lesbian if you were to use an example. Yes it still works perfectly when you look at how many times people have hidden who they were to be accepted by society. Sure they can love who they are with but it's not the same feeling of love they would otherwise seek.

 

[PervyParadox]

I'm not gonna download the game again just for 5min worth of rereading to see what was changed so I can't comment on how it comes across now, but based on the synopsis I saw was they were just changing it from being lab experiment to some kind of legacy trait still does not address the issue people have.

Well I can't talk about other people but it kinda adressed the issue I had. There's a difference between an inner genetic predisposition and something forced into the genes from the outside. Feel way less invasive and more natural that way in my opinion. It basically unruined the game for me.

I didn't play the original version where it was an experiment, but with the current version it just says a "predisposition" towards family, and no Westermarck Effect (i.e. no in-built aversion to it). If the level of attraction caused by the experiment was phrased the same way, then then this is a bit of an overreaction. Predisposition towards and "no choice" are two completely different things.

You can have a predisposition towards brunettes, but still have a happy and fulfilling life with a blonde or redhead. It just means you find brunettes more attractive as a baseline.

Seriously, after reading this thread, I was expecting it to be much worse than it was, like date-rapey levels. Though admittedly, I played the tweaked version, so if the level of experiment-caused attraction was phrased to be significantly higher, then I apologize.

Same answer. Big difference between genetic predisposition and all forced artificially by scientists. Basically the difference between natural attraction and drugging someone to get them more compliant. Imagine dating only brunettes because a brunette once drugged you to make you prefer brunettes versus only dating brunettes just because your body is naturally more attracted to brunettes. That's basically what the difference is. Of course there's a whole conversation about influence, nature vs nurture and stuff but it's kind of a lot and we might get in too deep with that one. The point is : it was worse.

It was an overreaction imo. I'm always a little annoyed when devs give in to players' backlash and don't stick to their vision. Even though in this case it's not much

When a lot of people overreact on something from a game, it usually means that either something is too good or something is too bad. Though in this case, it did ruin a lot about the story and relationships for a lot of people because like other people explained it in this thread already, it basically deconstruct every real feelings that the girls would have had towards MC and make it all artificial. Suddenly, everything feels false like they've been mind controlled or endoctrinated to like him, and all the genuine emotionnal link between them is lost because it was just something forced into them.

I mean I kinda like the new version too, genetic predisposition is pretty okay compared to the alternative, and I hope the dev is not going to change that even if some people still have issues with it.

 

[MrSancini]

Well, I didn't knew about the old version, so it seems like I dodged the bullet (and yep, after reading the responses, the whole experimental thing sounded like BS).

Gonna download later after some procrastination.

 

[gadu2121]

So you have to think that the secret Petal keeps is that the girls have noticed their mother’s attraction to them? And that their plans are to free the mother’s mind by showing their love for the mc?

 

[Yngling]

Big difference between genetic predisposition and all forced artificially by scientists. Basically the difference between natural attraction and drugging someone to get them more compliant. Imagine dating only brunettes because a brunette once drugged you to make you prefer brunettes versus only dating brunettes just because your body is naturally more attracted to brunettes. That's basically what the difference is. Of course there's a whole conversation about influence, nature vs nurture and stuff but it's kind of a lot and we might get in too deep with that one.

It is the first time that I heard that there could some genetic predisposition to liking incest.
That seems like bullshit to me. But perhaps I am wrong and we have a genetic engineer here who can explain it.

I understand the conditioning argument you are making, but this is not conditioning, this is purely genetic.

Anyway, while I much prefer the new version over the old one, I still think it's not necessary.

 

[PervyParadox]

It is the first time that I heard that there could some genetic predisposition to liking incest.
That seems like bullshit to me. But perhaps I am wrong and we have a genetic engineer here who can explain it.

I understand the conditioning argument you are making, but this is not conditioning, this is purely genetic.

Anyway, while I much prefer the new version over the old one, I still think it's not necessary.

I kinda agree, it's pure sci-fi anyway. The argument used is some type of anti-westermarck effect hypothesis which is highly controversial to begin with (but interesting in my opinion) that just state that you naturally develop an aversion (like a physical inprinted aversion) to sexual attraction towards people you've grown up with from birth to the age of six or some. There's some evidences that DNA is not as static as lots of people think, it can change its expression depending on physical and social interactions (pressures, norms etc) to begin with, so a socially learned aversion towards incest could be physically inprinted at some point with enough influence (which is usually the case seeing how taboo incest is (or other fetishes)). But again, it's too deep of a conversation and I don't think we should enter into a complicated discussion between social conditionning and DNA expression, and how it affects each others.

Anyways, the old version was using an invasive trope to affect the girls' DNA in a way that it expresses in a non-natural way (so it tends more towards the social influence more powerful that the DNA, so an outter conditionning), while the new story tends to a less invasive conditionning (basically a natural physical sort of conditionning).

Ok I'll stop bickering now, sorry. I also prefer the new version and also thinks it's not necessary so I don't know why I keep writing about it.

 

[NewTricks]

I took a class in college that was all about the Nature/Nurture argument and the only thing that I really learned for certain is that it is an open question. There is compelling evedence for both. It is an area of continued debate because of the fact that while we know a lot about the effect that DNA has on us and how it works to shape us the same can't be said of our understanding of how the human mind works. That part of the science is kind of lagging behind due to nearly every groundbreaking study being deemed unethical and/or relying on cherry-picked data. I think that it is forgivable if the fantastical premise of a pornographic game doesn't follow the science in a 1/1 apples-to-apples comparison. However, if there is one interesting thing that I have learned from this discussion it is that an unnatural or scientifically-based explanation for the inducement to incest in this particular game caused a fascinating reaction. Possibly much more interesting than the game itself. For those who were enjoying the story believing that the characters were inclined toward sexual attraction to family members due to their own inborn and natural predictions, this backstory of the experiment had a profound impact on their ability to enjoy the fetish. This in itself is an area of inquiry that merits further study.

 

[Yngling]

However, if there is one interesting thing that I have learned from this discussion it is that an unnatural or scientifically-based explanation for the inducement to incest in this particular game caused a fascinating reaction. Possibly much more interesting than the game itself. For those who were enjoying the story believing that the characters were inclined toward sexual attraction to family members due to their own inborn and natural predictions, this backstory of the experiment had a profound impact on their ability to enjoy the fetish. This in itself is an area of inquiry that merits further study.

I think it's not so complicated and has been discussed quite a lot on this forum.

Incest is interesting because of the taboo. Take away the taboo and it loses the interest. (Although Desert Stalker is a very interesting exception to that, there the casualness works in it's favour).

It's about overcoming something you fear.

Take for example parachuting. Why would jumping out of an aircraft be interesting to do? Because it is scary! And therefore, if you did it, you overcame your fear.

If, for whatever reason, incestuous feelings would be totally normal and fine, then the taboo and fear of the consequences is gone and only the sex remains.

This hypothetical genetic engineering took away the taboo and was therefore not a good idea.