RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.5.8.5b] [Chyos]

[Evangelion-01]

Yes, I understood that from your prior comment.

My problem is that makes no sense whatsoever. I'd have had to hit "brute force every possible interaction" to discover that, unless, maybe, I had already progressed Tia to that point before ever talking to Rick about the girls.

If you talk to her about her family she'll be avoiding your question and MC thinks to himself he should talk to Rick since he knows the People of Arenfield since his birth and might be able to provide informations

 

[Hedonax]

If you talk to her about her family she'll be avoiding your question and MC thinks to himself he should talk to Rick since he knows the People of Arenfield since his birth and might be able to provide informations

I don't recall this. I recall the MC thinking he needs to find someone who might know more, but I don't recall any specific mention of Rick.

 

[Evangelion-01]

I don't recall this. I recall the MC thinking he needs to find someone who might know more, but I don't recall any specific mention of Rick.

Rick is providing you with informations about Characters, has a choice for Tia, is your drinking buddy and was born in Arenfield while MC only moved there in his early childhod (5-6 I'd assume since he has memories of that time).
The game is meant to only give you hints not tell you step by step what to do... that's what the Walkthrough or Wiki are for

 

[Hedonax]

Rick is providing you with informations about Characters, has a choice for Tia, is your drinking buddy and was born in Arenfield while MC only moved there in his early childhod (5-6 I'd assume since he has memories of that time).
The game is meant to only give you hints not tell you step by step what to do... that's what the Walkthrough or Wiki are for

I've already been over this, but I guess I have to repeat myself.

1. You almost certainly already talked to him about Tia by that point, and he had nothing useful to say except he doesn't like her, which suggests against him having any useful info.
2. If you're trying to argue Rick would have more knowledge about her history, when he would have been all of a few years old at any time you weren't also in Arenfield is genuinely absurd. As I said, it makes far more sense to go to someone older in the community who would have already been a teenager or adult when Tia showed up.
3. Going to Rick for this makes zero sense. The only thing constituting a hint is that he is the only character who will have had a Tia specific dialogue option, but as he doesn't make sense as a source of this info and you likely already did that dialogue option, it's not a very good one... and hints that rely not on in-narrative reasoning but metagame are bad design anyway.

 

[zARRR]

I've already been over this, but I guess I have to repeat myself.

1. You almost certainly already talked to him about Tia by that point, and he had nothing useful to say except he doesn't like her, which suggests against him having any useful info.
2. If you're trying to argue Rick would have more knowledge about her history, when he would have been all of a few years old at any time you weren't also in Arenfield is genuinely absurd. As I said, it makes far more sense to go to someone older in the community who would have already been a teenager or adult when Tia showed up.
3. Going to Rick for this makes zero sense. The only thing constituting a hint is that he is the only character who will have had a Tia specific dialogue option, but as he doesn't make sense as a source of this info and you likely already did that dialogue option, it's not a very good one... and hints that rely not on in-narrative reasoning but metagame are bad design anyway.

I am going to deal with point 3 especially, since going over Rick it makes sense c’mon!
He is your best friend (allegedly), he spends every night in tavern he must know a lot of rumors!
And in a city full of strangers and abusive jerks who do you think MC goes to seek help?
John just smiths all day, Roderick has its own problems, Corven is an outsider, Emily seems clueless about most people except the ones that are connected to her, Thomas and Lucius care only about business and Giron is Giron.
Rick has been there more than you, and you trust him, and you go there asking for a specific question, Tia’s family not an opinion on her persona.

And even MC himself seems to be oblivious to most things happening, this can have a reason narratively (MC didn’t interact that much with others) and both gameplay wise, since the game wants you to discover the thing by yourself

Another thing to put aside that bugs the hell out of me is that metagame hints are bad designs…
The hell are you saying?
From to the old games from NES and PS1 (Like Zelda, MGS, Mario) to new indie games (Undertale, Lisa and even fucking DDQL) metagame hints were used continuously!
From Instructions manuals that were considered organic to the play, to meta hints like the ambience and objects that didn’t work before finding an item like in all metroidvanias and usage of walkthroughs the metagame hint elements were never considered bad design to begin with.

 

[Evangelion-01]

1. You almost certainly already talked to him about Tia by that point, and he had nothing useful to say except he doesn't like her, which suggests against him having any useful info.

So you never encountered a situation when dialogues change based on story progression?
gues you are a bit to early in the game than.

2. If you're trying to argue Rick would have more knowledge about her history, when he would have been all of a few years old at any time you weren't also in Arenfield is genuinely absurd. As I said, it makes far more sense to go to someone older in the community who would have already been a teenager or adult when Tia showed up.

People talk and kids are curious, obviously the elders must have told the kids a reason why Tia is different and why they should keep their distance or at least be careful around her.

3. Going to Rick for this makes zero sense. The only thing constituting a hint is that he is the only character who will have had a Tia specific dialogue option, but as he doesn't make sense as a source of this info and you likely already did that dialogue option, it's not a very good one... and hints that rely not on in-narrative reasoning but metagame are bad design anyway.

Failing to follow the devs logic (which seems to be a personal issue since most guys got it on the first try) is not meta game or bad design.
I see this is an personal issue to you but really makeing any more obvious hints would make this a VN with combat elements... you are supposed to walk around and explore the changeing world.

 

[Yotetar]

I can understand that criticism in a way. However, the "flaw" is in the medium. Emily should have logically bolted out of her room immediately, thinking it's MC. That would've "solved" everything. However, Chyos wanted to give the player the opportunity to prevent the capture from happening if they had other plans. Arbitrarily forcing the player's hand in a sandbox game to focus on a certain quest is generally a bad idea. With this choice, if the player just wanted to sleep for the night before continuing... I dunno, Tia's story... they can. "Oh, don't capture Emily tonight please, thank you."

That could work at first baby steps of the game, where you have basically, nothing to do,so it could be hard to earn money or to save her, but we are not at that stage, so it should be changed, or give another path where you can progress story without rescuing her( even if I would not like it).

 

[Evangelion-01]

That could work at first baby steps of the game, where you have basically, nothing to do,so it could be hard to earn money or to save her, but we are not at that stage, so it should be changed, or give another path where you can progress story without rescuing her( even if I would not like it).

I think Chyos made a pretty good point in the rescue being necessary, as that is the turning point of him and Emilys relationship.
Changeing that trigger moment can hardly be achieved with a simple change in the lines and seems unecesary complicated if you ask me.

 

[Yotetar]

I think Chyos made a pretty good point in the rescue being necessary, as that is the turning point of him and Emilys relationship.
Changeing that trigger moment can hardly be achieved with a simple change in the lines and seems unecesary complicated if you ask me.

Then we agree that it should've changed.zARRR you have work to do.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Then we agree that it should've changed.zARRR you have work to do.

We do? I thought we agreed to disagree... I am confused now

 

[zARRR]

We do? I thought we agreed to disagree... I am confused now

Shhhhh it’s all a Yotetar strategy to make you fall you on his side

 

[Yotetar]

Shhhhh it’s all a Yotetar strategy to make you fall you on his side

Shhhhh don't reveal my plans.

 

[Ottoeight]

Chyos, pal, don't change anything. Everything's fine to me.

Well, almost. We just need moar Frisha and Imawyn and Mira and Arianna and Penny and Sabrina and Verena and Athia and Melissa and Liandra. Just a few.

 

[Tehemai]

It doesn't bother me too much but I do think the level scaling of enemies is a bit nonsense in the way it's currently balanced. For example, I remember falling more and more behind mere goblins in speed even despite pumping dexterity. Without even equipping shields, which actually makes you lose even more speed depending on how much agi you have due to the way the % bonus works.

Leveling definitely makes you feel weaker until you exceed the given enemy's maximum. And for some reason, some enemies scale to rather absurd levels. Orc Brute? Max 10, that's okay. Plague fiends? 26. Goblin scout? Whopping 40. Those poor orc scouts stuck at 5. Goblin master race.

 

[Hedonax]

So you never encountered a situation when dialogues change based on story progression?
gues you are a bit to early in the game than.

Obviously dialogue can change, but why would I expect it to have IN THIS CASE? If Rick had previously said anything useful to establish him as a source of meaningful information, it might be different, but he's basically just chatted shit about everyone. If I had any reason to expect he'd be the source of information here, it'd be different, but, as I've said, there's no reason to think that.

People talk and kids are curious, obviously the elders must have told the kids a reason why Tia is different and why they should keep their distance or at least be careful around her.

People don't talk about serious matters much around children that are only a few years old, kids that age barely give a shit about anything, and people have almost no memories of those ages in the first place. No, that isn't obvious. You seem to have just made it up. I certainly haven't seen any explanation from anyone, and the only dialogue so far has been Rick saying he doesn't like her because she's big and strong.

Failing to follow the devs logic (which seems to be a personal issue since most guys got it on the first try) is not meta game or bad design.
I see this is an personal issue to you but really makeing any more obvious hints would make this a VN with combat elements... you are supposed to walk around and explore the changeing world.

Any time you make a decision in a game based on knowledge from outside the game is metagame and bad design for rpgs. You know, like noticing that a character has dialogue options, and so assuming they must be the person to talk to about something even though you have no in-narrative reason to think they'd be the source of that info. That isn't to say you won't think that, but there should be an in-narrative reason for you to talk to that person also.

Metagame aspects can be good in non-narrative contexts, like color coding in games to communicate where to go, or what you can interact with can be very useful.

If you like bad game design and nonsensical puzzles to progress them, that's a personal issue of yours.

 

[HentaiKami]

It doesn't bother me too much but I do think the level scaling of enemies is a bit nonsense in the way it's currently balanced. For example, I remember falling more and more behind mere goblins in speed even despite pumping dexterity. Without even equipping shields, which actually makes you lose even more speed depending on how much agi you have due to the way the % bonus works.

Leveling definitely makes you feel weaker until you exceed the given enemy's maximum. And for some reason, some enemies scale to rather absurd levels. Orc Brute? Max 10, that's okay. Plague fiends? 26. Goblin scout? Whopping 40. Those poor orc scouts stuck at 5. Goblin master race.

Eh, while there are discussions to have about level scaling and how it's bad in most cases, i don't really mind it personally in this one. Personally didn't really feel like getting weaker when leveling up, but that might also be because i tried to always upgrade my gear as soon as possible. Also different combat actions have different speeds, so there's also that.

While it is weird that goblins are way tougher than most orcs you encounter, it's done like that due to game balancing reasons in the story. If orcs were tougher than goblins, Chyos would have to change the story by switching orcs and goblins around and that would be bit hard considering the storyline. Also it's reasonable that you can't beat every enemy on every stat or their primary stat. You just have to try and build MC and waifus in a way, that they can beat enemies even if some of them are faster or stronger than they are.

But now days, after playing from the start so many times, i usually just skip parts of the grind by giving myself few extra stats with cheat book.

 

[XSelLint]

And for some reason, some enemies scale to rather absurd levels. Orc Brute? Max 10, that's okay. Plague fiends? 26. Goblin scout? Whopping 40. Those poor orc scouts stuck at 5. Goblin master race.

My MC is lvl 74 I was surprised when I did Defend Rumah Quest and saw Umah was around lvl 70, and Dasan and Syfa were in LVL 30s

 

[Nighthumper123]

Joi play is extremely laggy do yo know any alternatives that I can use?

 

[Herokuyon]

Tia and Katherine dont have 3some in this update yet, right?

 

[Samuel Hidayat]

1. You almost certainly already talked to him about Tia by that point, and he had nothing useful to say except he doesn't like her, which suggests against him having any useful info.

Not liking someone doesn't mean you don't have any info on them whatsoever. If anything, some people might want to learn more about the person just to justify their dislike, to avoid them better, or as an ammo to slander them.

2. If you're trying to argue Rick would have more knowledge about her history, when he would have been all of a few years old at any time you weren't also in Arenfield is genuinely absurd. As I said, it makes far more sense to go to someone older in the community who would have already been a teenager or adult when Tia showed up.

Rick frequents the tavern so often he's bound to hear a thing or two about ongoing rumors. People's tongues can get pretty loose when they're drunk. Also, at that time Rick is MC's closest friend, and many adults don't really regard MC well, so no real reason to disclose any private info about Tia to him.

Why are you so stubborn like this?