RPGM A Struggle with Sin [v0.5.8.5b] [Chyos]

[Yotetar]

Already did. Had sex with all


Narratively Imawyn is no slouch either, but she sits at level 6 while no name mooks are at least Level 19. And both fights are part of the same questline and happen back to back.

Imagine beating the Chieftain Son from Rumah and then Gurtak's men in the follow-up quest are 15 levels higher than him.

I don't mind Brigands being strong enemy types, I just think the level spike for that questline is a bit radical and should maybe be balanced in a full release.

I dont think so. The questlog tells you the lvl required to do the quest. And the walkthrought tells you to equip some armor before facing brigands. An rpg in his pure form, is a "try and error". So no, it doesnt need to be refined.The questlog gives you an advice, that even if you keep going it doesnt end in game over.And the walkthrough tells you even more.
So grind it.it is a rpg, on rpg sometimes you need to grind.And it is not difficult to grind in this game when you have more quests to do than facing a brigand (with low lvl)

 

[Evangelion-01]

Chyos already stated that a “rework and balance update” it’s in his plans, in fact it’s already a possible update that patrons can choose in the polls.
Basically he will rework some animations, make balancing changes and other mechanical things, plus some additional content.

I'd assume that the rework will be around reduceing enemies Level while letting them keep their stats and skills, as we are still early game and the strongest mob enemies (not even military men) are already Level 55.
Reduce that by 30 Level (or maybe 50%-60% since it also needs to be applied for weaker enemies) without takeing away anything else will make it more believeable and allows for even stronger enemies to appear later in the game.
Like someone once said "Humans are a race of magnitude... we love high and raising numbers"

 

[Yotetar]

I'd assume that the rework will be around reduceing enemies Level while letting them keep their stats and skills, as we are still early game and the strongest mob enemies (not even military men) are already Level 55.
Reduce that by 30 Level (or maybe 50%-60% since it also needs to be applied for weaker enemies) without takeing away anything else will make it more believeable and allows for even stronger enemies to appear to appear.
Like someone once said "Humans are a race of magnitude... we love high and raising numbers"

What about the talents point you need to keep going? armor need points, roguery needs point, everything needs points.
No points, no party.

 

[Evangelion-01]

What about the talents point you need to keep going? armor need points, roguery needs point, everything needs points.
No points, no party.

That doesn't apply to enemies though... I am talking about mob enemies not Player groupe or even unique NPC Boss characters.

 

[JennyTreibel]

I dont think so. The questlog tells you the lvl required to do the quest. And the walkthrought tells you to equip some armor before facing brigands. An rpg in his pure form, is a "try and error". So no, it doesnt need to be refined.The questlog gives you an advice, that even if you keep going it doesnt end in game over.And the walkthrough tells you even more.
So grind it.it is a rpg, on rpg sometimes you need to grind.And it is not difficult to grind in this game when you have more quests to do than facing a brigand (with low lvl)

So, if enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good design then? I don't know personally. To me it would feel like a very artificial increase of difficulty.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion on my part. I'm not going to lose sleep over this myself.

 

[Yotetar]

That doesn't apply to enemies though... I am talking about mob enemies not Player groupe or even unique NPC Boss characters.

If you reduce lvl, you reduce exp point, if you reduce lvl of enemies you directly reduce player lvl as well, so you reduce the talents points you get to spend. You know when he says balance means break saves gamesright? It means everyone has to start again.And less talent points makes you more difficult on overall.

So, if enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good design then? I don't know personally. To me it would feel like a very artificial increase of difficulty.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion on my part. I'm not going to lose sleep over this myself.

If enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good desigh because you didnt read the questlog part where it says: "lvl required"

 

[Evangelion-01]

So, if enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good design then? I don't know personally. To me it would feel like a very artificial increase of difficulty.

Anyway, it was just a suggestion on my part. I'm not going to lose sleep over this myself.

It doesn't happen, like we said every enemy has a Level cap... that means a max but also a min Level... you just went for one of the strongest enemies currently in game.... would it make sence that they are weaker than an Orc stabber?

If you reduce lvl, you reduce exp point, if you reduce lvl of enemies you directly reduce player lvl as well, so you reduce the talents points you get to spend. You know when he says balance means break saves gamesright? It means everyone has to start again.And less talent points makes you more difficult on overall.

I neither said that the rebalance should affect the MC or his Party nor did I ever consider it... I am talking about changeing some numbers on the otherwise name and faceless enemies.
Enemy Levels are currently scaleing in order to display the dificulty they represent in the game... but those high numbers also limit the scaleing effects you can make in the future, normaly Level 99 is still max Level in RPGs. What Level would an actual Demon of war and torture have if a strong Human can already be Level 99?

 

[JennyTreibel]

If you reduce lvl, you reduce exp point, if you reduce lvl of enemies you directly reduce player lvl as well, so you reduce the talents points you get to spend. You know when he says balance means break saves gamesright? It means everyone has to start again.And less talent points makes you more difficult on overall.


If enemy levels during the Rumah quests suddenly trippled, that would be fine and good desigh because you didnt read the questlog part where it says: "lvl required"

Okay, if I go from a Level 10 Bandit to a Level 100 Bandit in the following quest, it would be okay, as long as I tell you in the quest log that enemies are now 90 levels higher? Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Okay, if I go from a Level 10 Bandit to a Level 100 Bandit in the following quest, it would be okay, as long as I tell you in the quest log that enemies are now 90 levels higher? Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

Your analogy is mute since you are not fighting Bandits with a Level of 20 in that Quest... you are faceing a new kind of foe that proves to be much stronger than what you have seen before. Same for the Orcs btw. An Orc Scout is max Level 4, an Orc Brute is Max Level 10 and an Orc Stabba is Level 16... are you claiming the scaleing is any worse than the Bandits (Pickpockets) [max Level 6] one? ...btw once Orc Defenders enter the game the Levels are in the 30s

 

[JennyTreibel]

Your analogy is mute since you are not fighting Bandits with a Level of 20 in that Quest... you are faceing a new kind of foe that proves to be much stronger than what you have seen before. Same for the Orcs btw. An Orc Scout is max Level 4, an Orc Brute is Max Level 10 and an Orc Stabba is Level 16... are you claiming the scaleing is any worse than the bandits one? ...btw once Orc Defenders enter the game the Levels are in the 30s

Orc Brute and Stabba have a 6 level difference, not 14 levels though which is the difference you face after capturing Imawyn and going back to the Camp to fight them. For a quest chain that is so connected that is just an abrupt level jump. You don't face Stabbas until the end of Rumah , at least that's when I took notice of them, compared to Scouts and Brutes that appear much earlier

But I've seen your rebuttals and people who are fine with it. So what can we do. I just wanted to suggest it.

 

[Evangelion-01]

Orc Brute and Stabba have a 6 level difference, not 14 levels though which is the difference you face after capturing Imawyn and going back to the Camp to fight them. For a quest chain that is so connected that is just an abrupt level jump. You don't face Stabbas until the end of Rumah , at least that's when I took notice of them, compared to Scouts and Brutes that appear much earlier

But I've seen your rebuttals and people who are fine with it. So what can we do. I just wanted to suggest it.

Orc Stabbers of Level 16 are the once that attack the village under Gurtaks command and you fight atleast 4 of them before the attack is repelled each time they come for their final assault.
and you can avoid faceing Orc brutes completly before they attack so for some it could be a Level jump from 4 to 16... do I need to make the math?
Our point is that you ran into an advanced Quest with a Low Level Character and seemingly be surprised that you got your ass handed for that.
One step at a time and check back with your Questlog regulary wether you truelly want to advance a Quest.
There aren't any Quests with a true timelimit in regards to the days spend (unless you take Bianca's NTR Route I suppose)

 

[Yotetar]

It doesn't happen, like we said every enemy has a Level cap... that means a max but also a min Level... you just went for one of the strongest enemies currently in game.... would it make sence that they are weaker than an Orc stabber?

I neither said that the rebalance should affect the MC or his Party nor did I ever consider it... I am talking about changeing some numbers on the otherwise name and faceless enemies.
Enemy Levels are currently scaleing in order to display the dificulty they represent in the game... but those high numbers also limit the scaleing effects you can make in the future, normaly Level 99 is still max Level in RPGs. What Level would an actual Demon of war and torture have if a strong Human can already be Level 99?

True, I will not discuss that, what I say: by logic, program and calculations that if you reduce lvl of enemy they will give less exp, less exp means the MC needs to grind much more to get enough talent points to keep going.It needs a re-structure of the talents points system. Making mini quest to get talent points or something.
I know some people cheated to get lvl 99 and even with that you dont get all the talents points needed to get max status.

Give me some sugar, I am your neighbour.

Okay, if I go from a Level 10 Bandit to a Level 100 Bandit in the following quest, it would be okay, as long as I tell you in the quest log that enemies are now 90 levels higher? Well, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

You know that what you said is illogical and unreasonable right? I am not gonna discuss that.

 

[JennyTreibel]

But Orc Brutes exist way before Stabbas come into play, whether you face them or not. And even without them, Orc Scouts are enemies you face right at the start of the game which still puts respectable game time between both enemy types.

Our point is that you ran into an advanced Quest with a Low Level Character and seemingly be surprised that you got your ass handed for that.

I get it and I'm working on catching up, but my point is that putting such an advanced quest back to back to a much lower one is questionable design choice for me. If they were completely unrelated quests, I would not have made a comment, but they litterally happen right after another with the same characters involved. I just didn't see a good reason why they should have such a huge level gap if they're part of the same quest chain, other than them being developed at completely different times. I imagine if they were developed in quick succession levels wouldn't have been so far apart.

But again, I just felt like making a suggestion here.

You know that what you said is illogical and unreasonable right? I am not gonna discuss that.

It's just a hyperbole to illustrate why I find your argument flawed

 

[zARRR]

True, I will not discuss that, what I say: by logic, program and calculations that if you reduce lvl of enemy they will give less exp, less exp means the MC needs to grind much more to get enough talent points to keep going.It needs a re-structure of the talents points system. Making mini quest to get talent points or something.
I know some people cheated to get lvl 99 and even with that you dont get all the talents points needed to get max status.

Give me some sugar, I am your neighbour.




You know that what you said is illogical and unreasonable right? I am not gonna discuss that.

On this thread only salt, and you should know it

 

[Yotetar]

But Orc Brutes exist way before Stabbas come into play, whether you face them or not. And even without them, Orc Scouts are enemies you face right at the start of the game which still puts respectable game time between both enemy types.



I get it and I'm working on catching up, but my point is that putting such an advanced quest back to back to a much lower one is questionable design choice for me. If they were completely unrelated quests, I would not have made a comment, but they litterally happen right after another with the same characters involved. I just didn't see a good reason why they should have such a huge level gap if they're part of the same quest chain, other than them being developed at completely different times. I imagine if they were developed in quick succession levels wouldn't have been so far apart.

But again, I just felt like making a suggestion here.



It's just a hyperbole to illustrate why I find your argument flawed

Sure, whatever you say man, the ball for you.

 

[Ottoeight]

At the end of the day, every day, everything you need to do is:

- save often, save often and use a lot of save slots;

- campaign: collect items (all sorts) and kill orcs, bandits and animals - always, everywhere and everyday;

- remember that anything is useful - except that damn spider silk and wolf meat (maybe)

- improve your talents and skills;

- remember that every skill and talent IS IMPORTANT;

- eat and sleep, and possibly get laid ;

- always check the walkthrough.

 

[Evangelion-01]

But Orc Brutes exist way before Stabbas come into play, whether you face them or not. And even without them, Orc Scouts are enemies you face right at the start of the game which still puts respectable game time between both enemy types.



I get it and I'm working on catching up, but my point is that putting such an advanced quest back to back to a much lower one is questionable design choice for me. If they were completely unrelated quests, I would not have made a comment, but they litterally happen right after another with the same characters involved. I just didn't see a good reason why they should have such a huge level gap if they're part of the same quest chain, other than them being developed at completely different times. I imagine if they were developed in quick succession levels wouldn't have been so far apart.

But again, I just felt like making a suggestion here.



It's just a hyperbole to illustrate why I find your argument flawed

Thiefs (max Level 55) are in the game from the start aswell (if you go south of the mine) though.
Every RPG has an area or storydevelopment where after stronger enemies roam the world. otherwise there would be little to no reason to form parties and Level all Characters.
It might have come as a shock to you in the moment but it's not a bad gamedesign, you just happen to trigger it far to early.
After enslaving or killing Gurtak normal Orcs are replaced by Level 30+ Stabba and Orc Defenders for example.

 

[Yotetar]

On this thread only salt, and you should know it

If Gondor calls for aid, Rohan will answer.

 

[Evangelion-01]

If Gondor calls for aid, Rohan will answer.

"The Alliance of the Light will stand tall and together! The day may come that all bonds break and all hope vains, but that day is not now!"

 

[JennyTreibel]

Sure, whatever you say man, the ball for you.

Guess the game needs more balancing in general /s

But seriously speaking, I haven't reached that part yet. I just scouted their Camp and fended off their first attack.