- Jul 17, 2019
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- Thread starter CobraSGT
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Over time I have come to the conclusion that L&P have perfected milking/blue balling of the patrons while still creating a game. I seriously doubt they ever intend to bring it to end, but will start another game some way down the line.
You can be a perfectionist, but L&P do not do perfectionism any longer, they are intentionally lengthening the process. Why I come to this conclusion? Take just a look at some of the top level VNs out there. Ever played gems like e.g. Stein´s Gate, Summer Pockets, Riddle Joker, 9-Nine, Dangaronpa, Little Busters, Dry Drowning or The ditzy Demons (if you lke the funny ones)? They have terrific art made by creators like Key and Sayori to name a few, but even those VNs reuse some pics, scenes and animations with new text when it is not important for the story to keep devlopment time in check. (And this is e.g. even Key doing, in whose VNs the story told is absolute king)
L&P go out of their way to add in useless renders and scenes which could be made with/in front of already made AWAM scenery without taking quality away.
As for branching, look at some pro VNs or even here on site the devs of Our Red String, Good Girl gone bad, Revenge for Jessica, even Culture Shock to name some which have serious or superior branching compared to AWAM. Eva Kiss, the dev of ORS and GGGB, is on pro level when it comes to branching storylines for erotic games. And she has already some sexy stuff in her newest project. Nothing really wild, but fitting to that point in the story. Something we have not in AWAM. And please do not use the slow burn phrase, ORS is slow burn too! And she gets out seriously packing updates about every two months.
L&P say they have the story already finished, it is really laughable that they need this much time per update. We have games onsite with comparable quality renders and/or massive story, which update pretty regular with substantial stuff.
What L&P do is Verschleppung, when you see the updates some other devs put out regularly.
Working so long with DAZ, let's say 8 hours/day, 3 years, I'm sure L&P moves very fast.
I've seen a video of a pro, using SketchUp, he does in an hour what others do in days.
I'm saying that with creation he doesn't spend most of the time. But here's a big BUT. Creating the scene goes fast if you know what you are going to do. In movies, sketches are made before, to position the characters in the scenes and the development of a scene. It is to look for the best position and put the best words in the mouth of a character.
I think L&P starts from nothing, an empty viewport, and all this costs a lot of time.
Right now, help is needed here, in the pre-creation phase. And I think this is the phase where a lot of time is wasted.
Start another game!!! No. How long will it take to reach the same level of income? And what guarantee do you have that it will ever get there?
I've seen a video of a pro, using SketchUp, he does in an hour what others do in days.
I'm saying that with creation he doesn't spend most of the time. But here's a big BUT. Creating the scene goes fast if you know what you are going to do. In movies, sketches are made before, to position the characters in the scenes and the development of a scene. It is to look for the best position and put the best words in the mouth of a character.
I think L&P starts from nothing, an empty viewport, and all this costs a lot of time.
Right now, help is needed here, in the pre-creation phase. And I think this is the phase where a lot of time is wasted.
Start another game!!! No. How long will it take to reach the same level of income? And what guarantee do you have that it will ever get there?
I agree in so far, that I think L&P are relatively quick on renders in general. But a) as you said they waste much time in pre-creation and b) they make a lot of unneccesary renders, reuse proven stuff too rarely and begin new scenery too often. More than one dialogue or scene could have made e.g. at the pool or in the kitchen without any loss of quality or storyline. And the use of already made pics is subpar. If you look in the files, many scenes could be made in comparable quality with 1/3- 1/2 less pics.
Do you think this is why an update takes so long? What you say, it's about (+1) week, in the worst case.
The big events spend most of the time.
I played the yoga event again. Once everything is set up, I mean props and lights, the rest is text and poses. L&P has his own lights system, presets for inside and outside, that mean load a file and positioning all stuff.
So what wastes time? If he had sketches for an event before he started, the work would go much faster.
He says so himself:
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- Apr 23, 2017
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Well right now, L&P is going to continue his path of how he developed the novel. I wouldn't expect any changes from him. Through his Patreon channel, He already said he has no intentions of removing any more plots or characters from his story after Dylan's "Twist" removal. He's quoted on here saying that "Quality is based on the number of renders he needs to create a scene or scenes." So there is no hard cap place for cs/renders, which means if he needs 1000 cs/renders to create a specific scene, then that's what it will be to complete the scene, and we already know his stance on getting help.I wouldn't want to spoil your joy but: Day 19 will not be done for at least 4-5 years.
Knowing L&P, he has the unfortunate tendency to perfect everything.
But come on, let's stay optimistic.
In the best case, he can do 2 playable days per year, if he wanted. (The quality of the game today is pretty exceptional .)
Personally, I think L&P should stop increasing the (visual) quality of the game and focus on the main thing.
The time saved with his new material, he wastes again by wanting to increase the quality.
It's just my opinion.
Two years ago, he was doing two game-day releases a year, which were half-day releases. Last year was the first time he shifted from two full game-days to one full game-day and a third, which the third continues into this year. Also, with the other guy event coming up in the evening, that might be a 500-800 cs/render event as it's most likely a big event for the other guy. His last render count, of significant size from last year, took five and half months to complete.
The only thing I can think of that he's been accurate in designing his novel is the coding aspect, which he said takes roughly two to three weeks to complete, which he has been coding in that amount of time per each update.
As much as I would love to be optimistic about him completing his novel and getting quicker releases as his novel has great potential, realistically, that is not the case based on his releases' current data and facts. As I said, I think he is now feeling the weight of his novel size. It's like he runs a restaurant, and he happens to be the bartender, cook, server, host. There's too much on his plate.
- May 24, 2020
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Oh, Bane71, my dude, my sweet summer child. The chances L&P wraps up his game in 10 years or under are equal to null, zero, none. Can't fathom how on Earth would he accelerate the development, when his primal approach is to squeeze everything out of his rigs. He pushes the hardware to the limits, increasing the quality of the images. Splitting the Day into 3 parts was a nice idea on paper, but in the real world everything stays pretty much the same, i.e. 7-9 months per playable day. I suppose he may end up playable day 15 in 4-5 months as that's only one huge event. Apart from that I'm strapped for a long ride.
I swiftly checked some of the above mentioned games and while, obviously, I can't say nothing about complexity of the story, the visuals nevertheless ... well-well-well. Probably you're a fan of anime girls in short skirts, but you can't seriously compare apples to oranges. Ain't talking about various engines. I bet my ass it takes more time to render 1 AWAM image than in any of those games, even made with DAZ, as their quality is not on the identical level.
Perhaps you don't know this, but L&P works as a lone wolf. Some other games being created by teams, at least those devs aren't afraid to seek help on the side, if needed. That's the worst part of this game.
The most peculiar thing is that AWAM offers a complete taboo as a main feature, intimate relations with both (!) of her children, the neighbors' kids, her own sis and who knows who else. It's absolutely laughable reading about whether or not this story is intricate enough, as this thread wishes to chop and simplify the game starting asap (not gonna happen according to L&P).
Milking. Admit, you're a bit jealous, as he makes +$10K per month, while you're writing about this bs here. Patrons are happy, he ain't complaining, end of story.
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- Dec 17, 2020
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I've been saying the same and the mods just delete my posts now saying it's "off topic", when I'm clearly talking about AWAM.
There are serious concerns about release timing of updates, and this should be made vocal. No one critises the quality or the plot. But, the speed of updates is just poor / negligent or even on purposes
- Apr 4, 2020
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- Dec 17, 2020
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I'm not the person you responded to. But I have the same feelings as he does.
Personally I earn more than $10k a month on my day job, so I'm not jealous of him financially. I actually think it's awesome he's built this game, this novel and he has this level of financial support.
But for me, it's clear as day, whether it's intentional or not, he's milking his patrons with his release schedule. And, a small % of patrons are not happy with him. It's not difficult for that to snow ball from a small % to a large %
- Apr 21, 2020
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I totally agree with you! Moreover, I am extremely surprised by people who allow you to tell the creator of the game what and how he needs to do! I want to say to these outraged people: - do your project as you think it is necessary, do not tell others!Agree !
What I love about L&P is his details management. For example, light ! depending on the room, the mood, the time of day...
And a lot of wide shots with a number of extras, to set the scene well.
I haven't seen this in a lot of games yet.
Obviously everyone wants the updates to happen faster, but I don't want him to delete this or that under pressure or the wishes of some. We would never say to a painter, we want a smaller picture with less color. The artist's vision must be respected.
And as you said, "end of the story", but I think we will still have to argue with others on this point
- Apr 21, 2020
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I make $ 100,000 a month and I think you are wrong. It's just your opinion against mine! Your accusations of milking are empty and incompetent! Although it can be said and rougher.
- Apr 21, 2020
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To bring down the heat of controversy and bring a good mood!
Have a nice evening everyone!
P.S. There is no desire to argue, but these stupid accusations are excessively annoying!
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Have a nice evening everyone!
P.S. There is no desire to argue, but these stupid accusations are excessively annoying!
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- May 24, 2020
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First of all, I've no faintest idea why you've decided to split my reply to 2 separate individuals by combining it into the new one, as if I was referring to the guy in your quote. Is that what you're doing at your job, falsifying and manipulating data?
I'm not a weatherman, but if it's that clear, good for you, man.
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Your wishful thinking sort of contradicts this info. The amount of his patrons is still going up and unless he screws up his project royally he'll only gain new backers.Well, I have sad news for you, son. Donald has left the building alongside with Jared, so of course the security service won't let you in. And I'm pretty sure Ivanka isn't in the Oval Office anymore except uncle Joe increasing his score with her.
- Dec 17, 2020
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Well the website you sent, shows he's lost 150 patrons. So confirming what I'm saying
Anyway, are you happy with a game taking 10 years to be made? And paying $100 + for that wait.
- Nov 30, 2020
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From what I have read elsewhere, a developer will often get new patrons just before an update comes out, so they will be first in line to get the new update, after that they then leave the developer.
So this may have happened in this case.
- Dec 17, 2020
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It is not known today.
- Dec 13, 2018
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It's common for devs, both big and small, to lose patrons before the start of a month since this is when Patreon takes payments. Their numbers will then tick up during the next few months as people rejoin in anticipation of updates or because they can now afford to restart their support.
3 years so far (2 for the current Ren'py version), but at the current rate of development, if each day continues to have as many events and side stories in it, it will take more than 10 years to be completed.