VN Ren'Py A Wife and Mother [v0.201] [Lust & Passion]

[Dr.SigmundFap]

I think it was Alley Cat who suggested that L&P should focus to no more than 4-5 routes:
Goodwife route (i.e. Liam +threesomes)
Filthy hetero incest route (i.e. Dylan)
Filthy hetero non-incest route (i.e. Sam / Aiden)
Filthy lesbian incest route (i.e. Ellie / Patricia)
Filthy lesbian non-incest route (i.e. Alyssa)
Beyond that it gets too complicated and we are facing eventual game abandonment

The problem here is that he should have applied this outline of narrowing the path down to these 5 points 2-3 years ago. To use these now would have a significant backlash effect with his Patreon Members. IMO, L&P is too far in the story now, P.D 12/30, to change anything or remove anything right now. We have some stories moving into a sexual phase (Ellie) and other stories that haven't moved the needle yet (Dylan.)

If he would have shortened the playing field of characters to the list that Alley Cat suggested a couple of years ago, then he would have a better time managing his novel without the headaches of looking at 30+ characters' design and text. Instead, it almost feels like we're meeting the entire population of San Alejo.

 

[1lonegamer]

I know I throw a lot of sarcasm around here, but this is a genuine question because I definitely want to understand:
We are on a website that is almost exclusively dedicated to sharing and discussing what is inarguably stolen intellectual property, so what on earth you are talking about?

A lot of people on here are patrons, or own the games on Steam or pay through other sites. They may not support everygmae they watch or every game they play, but they do support some of them. Some developers put the games here to advertise for supporters. I know of a few that have asked supports to make sure and post reviews here if they like the game. Some people that see a game here will go on to support it on another site, not everyone is a pirate. At least not on every game.

 

[t3alqdansam]

The problem here is that he should have applied this outline of narrowing the path down to these 5 points 2-3 years ago. To use these now would have a significant backlash effect with his Patreon Members. IMO, L&P is too far in the story now, P.D 12/30, to change anything or remove anything right now. We have some stories moving into a sexual phase (Ellie) and other stories that haven't moved the needle yet (Dylan.)

If he would have shortened the playing field of characters to the list that Alley Cat suggested a couple of years ago, then he would have a better time managing his novel without the headaches of looking at 30+ characters' design and text. Instead, it almost feels like we're meeting the entire population of San Alejo.

There are always possibilities Mr Spock used to say. It is true here. L&P can DLC (Or just place them in suspension) some of the paths and be upfront about that as he pares the story down to get it moving.

He is not too far down Morello path. That can be DLC'd, The Coach Sophia path has already been tossed in that direction I believe. The Bennet path can be DLC'd (or terminated with extreme prejudice) I am not picky here. Aiden can be brought to a standstill and slipped into a DLC after this update. Dylan can be in semi permanent isolation at boarding school for DLC finish. The trip to the horse ranch, etc... all different ways to regain control of the story and focus it. Plus DLC's allow him to keep adding elements that have never even existed. He can easily keep the story going for years by using DLCs or whatever you want to call it.

However, if he stays bogged in a 1/3 of a day release sequence, there ultimately won't be a point. The end game will pass by everyone's graves and the updates or DLC's will be for descendants. DOH!

 

[1lonegamer]

There are always possibilities Mr Spock used to say. It is true here. L&P can DLC (Or just place them in suspension) some of the paths and be upfront about that as he pares the story down to get it moving.

He is not too far down Morello path. That can be DLC'd, The Coach Sophia path has already been tossed in that direction I believe. The Bennet path can be DLC'd (or terminated with extreme prejudice) I am not picky here. Aiden can be brought to a standstill and slipped into a DLC after this update. Dylan can be in semi permanent isolation at boarding school for DLC finish. The trip to the horse ranch, etc... all different ways to regain control of the story and focus it. Plus DLC's allow him to keep adding elements that have never even existed. He can easily keep the story going for years by using DLCs or whatever you want to call it.

However, if he stays bogged in a 1/3 of a day release sequence, there ultimately won't be a point. The end game will pass by everyone's graves and the updates or DLC's will be for descendants. DOH!

I like L&P but with out an increase in production end game will never happen, much less DLCs, or end game will be forced and rushed which has certainly been done by more than one Dev. Wish they would get some help, but I think L&P still wants total control. I believe hiring help was a Patreon goal at one point. I lkie the results but yeah the waiting can be brutal, and it is hard to please everyone, because there are people who are interested in those paths even if some of us aren't.

What about bringing back the movers for a DLC if you just want to put more out there.

 

[ancienregimele]

Maybe someone knows more about Aiden blackmail list? It's so interesting..

So lets talk a little bit about it.. Whats task can be in future? Whats task you want to see in future?

It's not that I don't want to talk about potential tasks, of which I can think of several, even within the restrictions L&P has chosen to apply. It's more the case that I am not a 'patron in good standing' but a 'free-loading pirate.' I will never be a patron while the output is one or two updates per annum & that's my choice but by the same token, any suggestion I might make could be rejected out of hand by the Dev. So, I don't want to say too much because L&P surely won't want to be catering to the likes of me, or be too encouraging to his non-paying public.

Having said that, I've made it plain in this thread that I love photoshoots. I think Aiden could hire a professional photographer for a private photosession, or perhaps he knows someone who would do it for the thrill. Boundaries could be pushed, or broken with such an event, which I think would be popular, except with die-hard Aiden haters. There is so much latent eroticism in this task it would be a shame to neglect such a possibility.

[P.S. Yes, I know it's been done with Dylan, (plus Sam) but this would be a different level of erotic].

 

[Talcum Powder]

Oh, I thought we are a community of game testers contracted in non-verbal terms.

Wait, that sounds an awful lot like sarcasm. Are suggesting the opposite of what you’re suggesting?

 

[Talcum Powder]

A lot of people on here are patrons, or own the games on Steam or pay through other sites. They may not support everygmae they watch or every game they play, but they do support some of them. Some developers put the games here to advertise for supporters. I know of a few that have asked supports to make sure and post reviews here if they like the game. Some people that see a game here will go on to support it on another site, not everyone is a pirate. At least not on every game.

This is an impressive list of facts but as you say “some” and “a few” and “not everyone” you are acknowledging that you are not refuting what I said. There are a fair few pirates around here and there are a fair few bits of game code and imagery being shared without the creator’s consent. And this site exists, for the most part, to foster that activity. It’s the dominant driving force behind the millions of interactions found here.

So I’m genuinely trying to understand the thought process that leads one to cry foul when it happens here. The question remains unanswered.

 

[Talcum Powder]

It's not that I don't want to talk about potential tasks, of which I can think of several, even within the restrictions L&P has chosen to apply. It's more the case that I am not a 'patron in good standing' but a 'free-loading pirate.' I will never be a patron while the output is one or two updates per annum & that's my choice but by the same token, any suggestion I might make could be rejected out of hand by the Dev. So, I don't want to say too much because L&P surely won't want to be catering to the likes of me, or be too encouraging to his non-paying public.

Having said that, I've made it plain in this thread that I love photoshoots. I think Aiden could hire a professional photographer for a private photosession, or perhaps he knows someone who would do it for the thrill. Boundaries could be pushed, or broken with such an event, which I think would be popular, except with die-hard Aiden haters. There is so much latent eroticism in this task it would be a shame to neglect such a possibility.

[P.S. Yes, I know it's been done with Dylan, (plus Sam) but this would be a different level of erotic].

I have actually been the photographer under similar, but not at all coercive, circumstances. It wasn’t as erotic as the sponsor and the model had hoped.

but that was a single IRL event, not a fictional fantasy…

 

[Dr.SigmundFap]

There are always possibilities Mr Spock used to say. It is true here. L&P can DLC (Or just place them in suspension) some of the paths and be upfront about that as he pares the story down to get it moving.

He is not too far down Morello path. That can be DLC'd, The Coach Sophia path has already been tossed in that direction I believe. The Bennet path can be DLC'd (or terminated with extreme prejudice) I am not picky here. Aiden can be brought to a standstill and slipped into a DLC after this update. Dylan can be in semi permanent isolation at boarding school for DLC finish. The trip to the horse ranch, etc... all different ways to regain control of the story and focus it. Plus DLC's allow him to keep adding elements that have never even existed. He can easily keep the story going for years by using DLCs or whatever you want to call it.

However, if he stays bogged in a 1/3 of a day release sequence, there ultimately won't be a point. The end game will pass by everyone's graves and the updates or DLC's will be for descendants. DOH!

There are always possibilities, but we wouldn't know the outcome of those possibilities since players are already currently vested in the story content right now. For example, if he limited the spectrum of characters initially, His audience would have focused on those five characters versus the Baskin Robbins 31+ flavor of characters. The DLC approach would be excellent, but he should have introduced that from the start, not during the story while it's in progress with all the characters active. Since he started the story, some of his readers have become vested in that particular path growing exponentially of readers and fans. He would have difficulty removing that content now without backlash from his Patreon Members who enjoyed the course without bringing it to a conclusion.

We don't know how the stories are mix in with other storylines, which is another challenge in itself to try and remove other stories. For example, Dylan/Ellie's path was initially supposed to be a side story, but Dylan will have to choose between Sophia or Ellie on the next playable day in the evening. So L&P injected Dylan/Ellie's side story into the main path of Sophia/Dylan now, which means Dylan/Ellie's story is now the primary path for that pair if the reader chooses to take this path. Also, what if you keep Aiden in play after this update? The readers who follow his path would want the story to continue and not have to wait ten-plus years for a conclusion through DLC.

Although I agree that he will stay bogged down on his release time, I see him heading to 1/4 day releases or event releases, which might be his only option for being a one-person show on design for the novel. Unless he decides to say, "I need help." and looks for people with qualities that can come close to his work, and he can live with that choice. If he tried to Reboot the novel now or DLC active story paths, I'm sure he will receive negative comments on Patreon and potentially lose members over it.

 

[AlfredBundy4]

The problem here is that he should have applied this outline of narrowing the path down to these 5 points 2-3 years ago. To use these now would have a significant backlash effect with his Patreon Members. IMO, L&P is too far in the story now, P.D 12/30, to change anything or remove anything right now. We have some stories moving into a sexual phase (Ellie) and other stories that haven't moved the needle yet (Dylan.)

If he would have shortened the playing field of characters to the list that Alley Cat suggested a couple of years ago, then he would have a better time managing his novel without the headaches of looking at 30+ characters' design and text. Instead, it almost feels like we're meeting the entire population of San Alejo.

I think L&P already knows the deal. Given the scope and time between updates it's a literal stall-job before showing her fucking anyone other than Liam. The release where that happens is the start of the end. Few stories survive at the same strength, let alone get stronger, after the main target is had. The fans finally got their nut. Most will stick around a bit longer but each subsequent partner hurts the fan passion and interaction with your product. That's just the sad fact of AVNs.

So in the event of an official ending of the story, most of these plotlines will either never be officially culminated OR they'll get a really weird, quick finish that makes little sense. The most likely scenario is as stated which is abandonment. It'll just be abandoned and he'll count his cash for a while.

The defenders of the story's length, scope and development time don't get that or want to get it. This just isn't sustainable but I've never felt it was meant to be sustained. It's being sustained for as long as L&P can keep dangling the carrot because when he finally gives it to the audience it marks the beginning of the end...and that's the end of story and maximum income.

None of this is meant to portray him in a bad light. He's piling cash while doing - regardless of what is claimed - minimal work. FFS, some updates took close to a year, lmao. I hate to say that I can't blame him. If you'll pay for an update or two a year, why work faster?! Working faster puts him out of work faster, ends this kind of income faster.

No, no, no. There will be no end. When she fucks anyone but Liam it marks the top of the rollercoaster. Only one way to go from there. That's true for all AVNs.

 

[Talcum Powder]

No sarcasm there, my friend. That is my perspective at least. I don't want to steal anything nor violate any rules. I just want to read/play good VNs/games while learning few about writing and development. And I believe devs need us for testing their products in all aspects.

Cool.

 

[Sonny86]

2

Maybe someone knows more about Aiden blackmail list? It's so interesting..

So lets talk a little bit about it.. Whats task can be in future? Whats task you want to see in future?

Sophia has to try and seduce Mrs. Torres!!

 

[AlfredBundy4]

I know I throw a lot of sarcasm around here, but this is a genuine question because I definitely want to understand:
We are on a website that is almost exclusively dedicated to sharing and discussing what is inarguably stolen intellectual property, so what on earth you are talking about?

This exactly. This circle cannot be squared. Any attempt to do so is literally just saying that one fellow thief can't be stolen from because he makes us cum really hard

No sense in it beyond that. Any claim otherwise is total BS.

 

[DARK_ANGEL_HACK]

 

[roberto1982]

1-1-LT1 Home schooling
1-2-LT1 Alyssa home schooling
1-3-LTI1 home schooling/boarding school
Good Wife route 1-4-LT1
Lesbian route 1-6-LT1

thank you, i understand there is no old gents routine but i can make that routine

 

[ashitanojoe]

Spoiler

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[Lord_Xanatos]

Progress Report.

100% - 100%
100% - 90%

 

[Sabertooth__]

I was nodding along in agreement until I came to the line "some development of Liam as a character", whence I sprayed my keyboard in coffee as I was unable to contain my indignation at that line!!

Seriously though, I don't want too much time spent on Liam unless you are playing the Good Wife route, in which case fair enough. But for those of us in the hope of something exciting on the other routes (and I don't mean sex which we known won't happen for a few more days), I hope to waste as few renders on Liam as possible to try to move the story forward.

You don't need to spend lots of renders on Liam or any character to develop them a little, it can be the smallest of lines or acts that give them depth. I wouldn't want Liam to be bland husband character just like there is in every game who is just there to fill in the husband spot. He has his thoughts too and at some point they should be brought to light ( it will be better if done a little later in the story but the subtle beginning of it can be initiated around this time. )

Also I agree that developing Liam too much on the filthy route isn't the best thing. It will be more of a roadblock to let Sophia explore more and at the same time it will make players feel bad while wronging Liam and Sophia cheating on him. It will be pretty easy to make one feel guilty with a single scene of Liam expressing how much he cherishes Sophia while Sophia in a parallel scene is having sex with someone else. This will only work if Liam is properly developed or we won't really care for what he thinks

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Also I agree that developing Liam too much on the filthy route isn't the best thing. It will be more of a roadblock to let Sophia explore more and at the same time it will make players feel bad while wronging Liam and Sophia cheating on him. It will be pretty to make you feel guilty with a single scene of Liam expressing how much he cherishes Sophia while Sophia in a parallel scene is having sex with someone else. This will only work if Liam is properly developed or we won't really care for what he thinks

It's exactly because the player will feel guilty for corrupting Sophia that we need Liam to be developed- even on the Filthy route. There are countless porn games that allow for guiltless cheating, where you can cheat on your significant other without any repercussions. But AWAM is supposed to be different. How many times do we tell people that AWAM isn't a porn game? If it isn't a porn game then it needs to be something more, and that means that the narrative needs to have weight. And we give that narrative weight by creating stakes. If you want to corrupt Sophia completely, that's fine, but you shouldn't get away with it without paying a price. And that price will be hurting someone else.

Sophia on the corruption route is not getting out of this without collateral damage.

 

[Sabertooth__]

It's exactly because the player will feel guilty for corrupting Sophia that we need Liam to be developed- even on the Filthy route. There are countless porn games that allow for guiltless cheating, where you can cheat on your significant other without any repercussions. But AWAM is supposed to be different. How many times do we tell people that AWAM isn't a porn game? If it isn't a porn game then it needs to be something more, and that means that the narrative needs to have weight. And we give that narrative weight by creating stakes. If you want to corrupt Sophia completely, that's fine, but you shouldn't get away with it without paying a price. And that price will be hurting someone else.

Sophia on the corruption route is not getting out of this without collateral damage.

In all honesty I would absolutely love if L&P would incorporate that. The players feeling just as conflicted about cheating on Liam as Sophia is. In all the games I have played I really felt nothing while getting the wife to cheat but I have seen other NTR material and at times I used to really feel bad about the wife cheating on a good man.

Also from L&P's standpoint it will be a big yet interesting challenge as a writer of this story to make the players feel conflicted about going through with the corrupt choices. A game where everyone wants Sophia to just descend further and further, can his writing skills, character development stop that or partially prevent it