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  • Flawed Perfection

    Votes: 169 24.4%
  • Revenge Soaked Heart

    Votes: 146 21.0%
  • The Revolutionist Manifesto

    Votes: 134 19.3%
  • All Out War

    Votes: 328 47.3%

  • Total voters
    694

Trainer7

Member
Feb 13, 2018
209
178
The concept of Aria/Henry is flawed based on goals of Aria. She wants Angelica. The only interest in Henry for her is a means of getting what she wants. The is no way she would accept Mark getting Angelica and being left with just Henry. She sees Henry as a pathetic tool to help her get what she wants. Even in situations where Aria does things with Henry it's always just done as a means to getting what she wants which is Angelica. She pretty much hates Henry because he took away from her what she felts was hers to begin with. Now based on that alone how in the world would she be ok being left with just Henry. There is no way she would ever accept your proposed outcome.

It could be partly done in that Aria, Henry and Angelica end up as a trouple, but that would require a lot of character repair/building of Henry and a lot of narrative work to get Aria and Henry to actually care about each other.

While it could be a very good story, it's also probably not worth the effort.
 

rhcp725

Member
Jun 19, 2020
384
536
That possibility meets Aria's criteria for accepting Henry because she would be getting what she wants in Angelica. Her goal is Angelica for herself in the long run but is willing to accept partial wins in order to push her end game target. However a regular thruple i doubt based on power dynamic probably isn't in the cards but other situations that involve the 3 is definitely on the table. Guess we'll just have to wait and see...
 

negeb18

Member
Dec 6, 2020
305
446
Now THAT, at least the way you presented it is not presently in the cards. Sorry man, like I said before though, I'm telling the story that Saruh & I set out to tell, & what you just described, both with Henry becoming Aria's sub, as well as the Angelica fucking Aria's dad bit, they just don't fit in. Did you even read everything that I, rhcp725 & SevenCostanza were discussing? Think of how overly cliche that would come out & how many directions we'd have to bend the character structures to make that happen. Not to mention the fact that the one thing that most of the fans are currently in agreement on is Henry has been getting the shit end of the stick for too long & needs a win, which is something that Saruh wanted to do, but never did out of fear of backlash from the fans. Since I'm not beholden to the fans, I'm going to do it the way we wanted to, & turns out, the fans want that too.

& for clarity, Mark isn't divorcing Vicky because of his sex life, SHE is divorcing HIM for that. She's the one that initiated the divorce.

That said, there will be some surprising curveballs coming. Some in the same trajectory the game is going, for the small segment of fans that are just here for the NTR corruption shit, I promised I'd keep that stuff in, so I'll stay true to my word, (Though I won't lie, for me personally, that's the contractual obligation, uninspired fan service schlock, so I'm not super pumped about churning that shit out, But I'll still do it because I'm a man of my word), Though there's a lot of stuff coming your way that most people won't even see coming. Some of it light, some of it leading to redemption, & some of it insanely dark, violent & leading to wholesale destruction. It's gonna be fun either way. I will say this. If Stumpy or his people start appearing in the path you're on, (Outside of the obvious initial 2 scenes that are being entered into earlier parts of the game, where they appear on all paths), prepare for our antagonists to have a very VERY bad time.
But at least they should include Aria+Henry and Mark+Angie's endings because of this multi-ending/route. They should have the happy ending for both couples. if you read GGGB, all the routes are satisfying because of how evakiss emphasizes the route of all characters. I know fans hate or love NTR, but it doesn't matter if you make it the reader's hook about what they read. The NTR stuff doesn't matter because you emphasize the choice which they make. That's why GGGB is still on top. But who am I to judge? I'm not a writer, but i try to be one, and it gives me an idea on how to write a corruption game that has a satisfying ending.
 
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Slappy Kinkaid

Active Member
Game Developer
Apr 14, 2018
607
852
But at least they should include Aria+Henry and Mark+Angie's endings because of this multi-ending/route. They should have the happy ending for both couples. if you read GGGB, all the routes are satisfying because of how evakiss emphasizes the route of all characters. I know fans hate or love NTR, but it doesn't matter if you make it the reader's hook about what they read. The NTR stuff doesn't matter because you emphasize the choice which they make. That's why GGGB is still on top. But who am I to judge? I'm not a writer, but i try to be one, and it gives me an idea on how to write a corruption game that has a satisfying ending.
That's valid. So perhaps I can kinda kill 2 birds with 1 stone & demonstrate why that wouldn't work with some good principals of writing. As I said before, The key to a good story is good characters & making sure you handle the characters well.

There will be happy endings with Mark & Angelica, Happy endings with Angelica & Aria, But a happy ending with Aria & Henry is a real difficult thing to pull off. I won't go into spoilers, but there's a lot of behind the scenes scheming going on & Aria's whole MO in that is to split Henry & Angelica up soo that she can have Angelica for herself. If she has to settle for sharing her with Mark, Then that's an acceptable compromise, but she knows as long as Angelica is with Henry, she's got no chance. So it would be completely illogical Aria wants Angelica, to an unhealthy extent. So not getting Angelica & only getting Henry would be of no interest to her. If we understand that the cardinal rule of writing is you MUST keep the characters true to themselves, then you MUST also realize that there are a lot of character structure hoops that make a Henry & Aria union all but impossible. Now, is there a way to do it, & is there some variation of that in the script, sure, but in order for that to happen, it necessitates a lot of time, (In story time that is), & a lot of significant, gradual & natural evolution of the characters over time. Make sense?
 

rhcp725

Member
Jun 19, 2020
384
536
Aria would never let Mark win solo. She wouldn't let Mark take Henry's spot for her to have even less of a chance at her goal. She hasn't been able to beat Henry's pathetic broken ass to get what she wants. You think she'd just let Mark swoop in and make het goal impossible. She is too much of a self serving egomaniacal cunt to let him win like that. She would share Angie with Mark but truly wants her for herself. Even in the possible both Mark and her getting Angie the second Henry is out of the picture is the second she turns on Mark to claim all the spoils of victory.
 

negeb18

Member
Dec 6, 2020
305
446
That's valid. So perhaps I can kinda kill 2 birds with 1 stone & demonstrate why that wouldn't work with some good principals of writing. As I said before, The key to a good story is good characters & making sure you handle the characters well.

There will be happy endings with Mark & Angelica, Happy endings with Angelica & Aria, But a happy ending with Aria & Henry is a real difficult thing to pull off. I won't go into spoilers, but there's a lot of behind the scenes scheming going on & Aria's whole MO in that is to split Henry & Angelica up soo that she can have Angelica for herself. If she has to settle for sharing her with Mark, Then that's an acceptable compromise, but she knows as long as Angelica is with Henry, she's got no chance. So it would be completely illogical Aria wants Angelica, to an unhealthy extent. So not getting Angelica & only getting Henry would be of no interest to her. If we understand that the cardinal rule of writing is you MUST keep the characters true to themselves, then you MUST also realize that there are a lot of character structure hoops that make a Henry & Aria union all but impossible. Now, is there a way to do it, & is there some variation of that in the script, sure, but in order for that to happen, it necessitates a lot of time, (In story time that is), & a lot of significant, gradual & natural evolution of the characters over time. Make sense?
Then violate the cardinal rule, as in the GGGB (sorry if I compared). If you apply the cardinal rule to the character Jessica the slut, it is impossible for Jessica to end up with Dave. A weak boyfriend like Eric has a route to end up with Chad Eric, a playboy Jack has a route to end up as Ashley's husband, a damaged father has a route to become successful again, and even the MC has a gratifying road to becoming a gang boss.

The issue is that even if you choose to stay devoted to Henry, his character remains the same as it was from the beginning.

I hope the author is not offended if he reads this; I'm simply sharing my thoughts based on my experience playing GGGB.
 

negeb18

Member
Dec 6, 2020
305
446
Aria would never let Mark win solo. She wouldn't let Mark take Henry's spot for her to have even less of a chance at her goal. She hasn't been able to beat Henry's pathetic broken ass to get what she wants. You think she'd just let Mark swoop in and make het goal impossible. She is too much of a self serving egomaniacal cunt to let him win like that. She would share Angie with Mark but truly wants her for herself. Even in the possible both Mark and her getting Angie the second Henry is out of the picture is the second she turns on Mark to claim all the spoils of victory.
it depend of the author if he makes a route in all scenario we have for now. The game is not finished maybe your right maybe im right atleast we dont left. :LOL:
 

Trainer7

Member
Feb 13, 2018
209
178
Then violate the cardinal rule, as in the GGGB (sorry if I compared). If you apply the cardinal rule to the character Jessica the slut, it is impossible for Jessica to end up with Dave. A weak boyfriend like Eric has a route to end up with Chad Eric, a playboy Jack has a route to end up as Ashley's husband, a damaged father has a route to become successful again, and even the MC has a gratifying road to becoming a gang boss.

The issue is that even if you choose to stay devoted to Henry, his character remains the same as it was from the beginning.

I hope the author is not offended if he reads this; I'm simply sharing my thoughts based on my experience playing GGGB.
GGGB doesn't break the cardinal rule though, characters like Jessica are written as someone who got lost in a status and ensuing lifestyle (to sum it up quickly) and is designed so that the player's influence will either let her stay lost or give her an opening at redemption.

Being true to one's self involves more than one attribute, people are capable of being considerably more complex than that.
 
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Slappy Kinkaid

Active Member
Game Developer
Apr 14, 2018
607
852
Then violate the cardinal rule, as in the GGGB (sorry if I compared). If you apply the cardinal rule to the character Jessica the slut, it is impossible for Jessica to end up with Dave. A weak boyfriend like Eric has a route to end up with Chad Eric, a playboy Jack has a route to end up as Ashley's husband, a damaged father has a route to become successful again, and even the MC has a gratifying road to becoming a gang boss.

The issue is that even if you choose to stay devoted to Henry, his character remains the same as it was from the beginning.

I hope the author is not offended if he reads this; I'm simply sharing my thoughts based on my experience playing GGGB.
I've played GGGB & I gotta tell ya, I disagree with your perspective of the game. The thing about cardinal rules is you do NOT break them EVER, because if you do, you only do so at your own story's peril. Let's break this down.

GGGB was, by & large a good story, that is true. However, it did have it's own writing flaws. For example, if you choose to have Ashley cheat on Eric, then she only briefly has any remorse or emotional conflict. For example, if she stays with Eric but chooses to continue cheating with Eric's dad, (doing the cam streaming thing or the pool party turned orgy at the Kanye West knock off's house), Eric calls her, chews her out, dumps her & she's an emotional wreck, until the next morning, then she's perfectly fine. There's only 1 bad ending for her, where she ends up dead, but all the other ones she's "happy" with, even if it's being in prison, or being the gang's doorknob, (everyone get's a turn, hur hur hur), In all of them Eric is fine whether with Ashley or alone just focusing on his advocacy work, so in a lot of crucial areas, the writing of the characters really doesn't go that deep.

Even the guilt she feels when cheating is represented as superficial. She feels bad because it's indecent & people would thing she's a bad person. Just as I did before, I'm going to use Scrubs as an example, as a primer for this next point, but rather than type a long ramble about it, I'll just post a 2 minute clip of the scene I'm referencing.



Now the salient point here is introspection & Real humanity. If people knew that my 4 year old cusses like a sailor, people would think that's indecent & I'm a bad father. Know my feelings on them? Fuck those cunts because I know I'm a Damn good dad. Relative morality, (i.e. societal stigma, societies moral standards), Don't mean SHIT. Know what does matter though? What's in the heart. Now since I'm poly, cheating is a lot less of a thing in my life. I mean it still can happen, but it's a lot less likely to happen because why cheat when just some basic communication, respect & taking the right steps makes that same "forbidden" relationship perfectly fine. But if I was monogamous, know why I wouldn't cheat? This is where that clip I posted becomes relevant. Not because society wouldn't like it, or because they would think I'm a bad guy, but because I couldn't stomach it. If I love someone, the thought of ANYONE hurting or wronging them fills me with rage. If it's someone I love, all I want is to make them happy, fulfilled & protect them from any harm or sadness. Long story short, their happiness is my happiness. Their suffering is my suffering. So the idea of someone harming them, betraying them or wronging them & on top of that, I'M the one doing it? That's unthinkable. If I did that to someone I loved, the fact that I caused this betrayal & injustice to someone that I love, for me, the only way I could escape from the guilt & self hatred that would be eating me alive is a dose of a single lake city quiet pill, likely the 45 caliber variety, administered orally from the business end of a gun, know what I mean? (For those not getting the visual metaphor, I'd be so disgusted with myself that I'd kill myself).

THAT is what love is. & when Ashley starts cheating, she still does love Eric. However, There's no element of that with Ashley, there's no empathy, or real representation of love in those scenes, there's no moment of "I love him, how could I do this to him? How could I hurt him this way?" It's as though, aside from superficial relative morality, sociopathy & narcissism reigns supreme. Now I know that's a relatively small gripe, but those flaws in the narrative must be accounted for.

That said, There is no Chad Eric in the game. You're misapplying the term chad. That's like saying every blonde woman becomes a Karen once they hit their mid 30s. Sure, He's more mature, fit, confident & a bit more hardened when he returns, but he's still the same guy under the surface. Those changes though are also properly fleshed out in the story. I mean it's not like he went away to summer camp, He traveled to Africa on a humanitarian trip, was taken hostage by some bad actors over there, was witness to some terrible atrocities & had to fight & kill his way out of it. All that shit changes a man, so it's pretty obvious why the changes that happened to him are present. As for Jessica, again, this is explained in the game. In the beginning, Ashley hated Jessica because she was a stuck up rude bitch that always got other people too do her homework for her. Depending on the path you take, Ashley ends up becoming the very thing she hated, which was becoming exactly like Jessica. For Ashley though, this all occurs in relatively short order. Within the span of less than a year, so it's all still new & exciting for her. She's still riding the high of the novelty of it all. After a while though, it does get old & pretty stale. This was Jessica's norm for years. & even early in the story, we see she's bored of all the glitz & glam & all of it. We can see Jessica really wanting a real human connection throughout it all. Now in the routes where Dave's girlfriend cheats on him & they split up, The reason why Jessica shifting more to being like how Ashley used to be, & opting for a more mundane life with Dave is actually pretty obvious & once you really look at it, It's clear that it's the only way it could have gone. She & dave were childhood friends. Likewise, she used to like to draw, before she got swept up in the life of hanging with celebs & clubbing & all the sex & shine. Though it's repeatedly made clear that she's bored with all that now. & when she & Dave reconnect, she rediscovers her love for drawing, & of course their relationship blossoms from there. She's happy with that because she wanted that human connection, something real. She doesn't miss the high life because she's been there, done that, there's nothing for it to offer her now.

Additionally, if you really pay close attention, even though she finds happiness in all the endings, not all of them really make her happy, more she makes the best of the circumstances she finds herself in. If you look at most of the endings & contrast them against the ending where she does stay faithful to Eric, There's a peaceful serenity & a deeply satisfying happiness that route ends on. You don't really see that in the other ones. You can tell she's happy in the moment, but we also know that happiness won't last due to a whole host of tells. & you can tell there's a lot about the roads that brought her to those various ends that does haunt her.

So, as you can see, if you ever want to be an even semi respectable writer, you must realize why your fixation on a specific outcome, even going so far as to break fundamental rules of story & character crafting to get to it, is self destructive to your own narrative goals. You might be happy with shoehorning the narrative into that end, but your audience is rolling their eyes & saying "What a joke" at your flawed & broken writing. Get the point?
 

rhcp725

Member
Jun 19, 2020
384
536
On a fundamental level Aria will never be able to attain a true happy ending because she lacks the understanding of what love actually is. She claims to love Angelica and yet she actively tries to break up her supposed loves marriage. If she actually loved Angelica she would be supporting her abd trying to do everything she could to help Angelica. If it was actually love Angelica's happiness would be most important to her yet it's not.

Now let's look at her actions in the lesbian lovers path. After she inexplicably pulls of breaking Henry and Angelica's marriage up she actually gets the chance to have what she claimed to want. Well what does she do? Instead of taking the win and having what she claims to have always wanted she instead shows her true colors. She doesn't actually want Angelica but her old running mate to continue her toxic lifestyle with a partner in crime.

Angelica throughout the game battles with trying to be better than her disorder. In all honesty Henry legitimately is what's best for her, providing he gets the help he needs to heal from all his tramas. Aria on the other hand is still stuck in the same mindset as high school and never actually grew up. She just wants fun and an actual meaningful relationship is an impossibility for her current mindset.

Now you say that it doesn't matter and there should be a Aria/Henry + Mark/Angelica ending. How can that actually be possible based on who Aria is as a character. She legitimately hates Henry because she sees him as the opposition to her getting her partner back. She only cares about herself and her wants.

To allow such an ending to occur it would legitimately require breaking the story based on who the characters are. That alone says it will not happen because story integrity means way to much to Slappy and he will never allow himself to purposely do that to his writing. I'm not trying to be all high abd mighty here, I'm just stating the truth in the matter.
 

negeb18

Member
Dec 6, 2020
305
446
I've played GGGB & I gotta tell ya, I disagree with your perspective of the game. The thing about cardinal rules is you do NOT break them EVER, because if you do, you only do so at your own story's peril. Let's break this down.

GGGB was, by & large a good story, that is true. However, it did have it's own writing flaws. For example, if you choose to have Ashley cheat on Eric, then she only briefly has any remorse or emotional conflict. For example, if she stays with Eric but chooses to continue cheating with Eric's dad, (doing the cam streaming thing or the pool party turned orgy at the Kanye West knock off's house), Eric calls her, chews her out, dumps her & she's an emotional wreck, until the next morning, then she's perfectly fine. There's only 1 bad ending for her, where she ends up dead, but all the other ones she's "happy" with, even if it's being in prison, or being the gang's doorknob, (everyone get's a turn, hur hur hur), In all of them Eric is fine whether with Ashley or alone just focusing on his advocacy work, so in a lot of crucial areas, the writing of the characters really doesn't go that deep.

Even the guilt she feels when cheating is represented as superficial. She feels bad because it's indecent & people would thing she's a bad person. Just as I did before, I'm going to use Scrubs as an example, as a primer for this next point, but rather than type a long ramble about it, I'll just post a 2 minute clip of the scene I'm referencing.



Now the salient point here is introspection & Real humanity. If people knew that my 4 year old cusses like a sailor, people would think that's indecent & I'm a bad father. Know my feelings on them? Fuck those cunts because I know I'm a Damn good dad. Relative morality, (i.e. societal stigma, societies moral standards), Don't mean SHIT. Know what does matter though? What's in the heart. Now since I'm poly, cheating is a lot less of a thing in my life. I mean it still can happen, but it's a lot less likely to happen because why cheat when just some basic communication, respect & taking the right steps makes that same "forbidden" relationship perfectly fine. But if I was monogamous, know why I wouldn't cheat? This is where that clip I posted becomes relevant. Not because society wouldn't like it, or because they would think I'm a bad guy, but because I couldn't stomach it. If I love someone, the thought of ANYONE hurting or wronging them fills me with rage. If it's someone I love, all I want is to make them happy, fulfilled & protect them from any harm or sadness. Long story short, their happiness is my happiness. Their suffering is my suffering. So the idea of someone harming them, betraying them or wronging them & on top of that, I'M the one doing it? That's unthinkable. If I did that to someone I loved, the fact that I caused this betrayal & injustice to someone that I love, for me, the only way I could escape from the guilt & self hatred that would be eating me alive is a dose of a single lake city quiet pill, likely the 45 caliber variety, administered orally from the business end of a gun, know what I mean? (For those not getting the visual metaphor, I'd be so disgusted with myself that I'd kill myself).

THAT is what love is. & when Ashley starts cheating, she still does love Eric. However, There's no element of that with Ashley, there's no empathy, or real representation of love in those scenes, there's no moment of "I love him, how could I do this to him? How could I hurt him this way?" It's as though, aside from superficial relative morality, sociopathy & narcissism reigns supreme. Now I know that's a relatively small gripe, but those flaws in the narrative must be accounted for.

That said, There is no Chad Eric in the game. You're misapplying the term chad. That's like saying every blonde woman becomes a Karen once they hit their mid 30s. Sure, He's more mature, fit, confident & a bit more hardened when he returns, but he's still the same guy under the surface. Those changes though are also properly fleshed out in the story. I mean it's not like he went away to summer camp, He traveled to Africa on a humanitarian trip, was taken hostage by some bad actors over there, was witness to some terrible atrocities & had to fight & kill his way out of it. All that shit changes a man, so it's pretty obvious why the changes that happened to him are present. As for Jessica, again, this is explained in the game. In the beginning, Ashley hated Jessica because she was a stuck up rude bitch that always got other people too do her homework for her. Depending on the path you take, Ashley ends up becoming the very thing she hated, which was becoming exactly like Jessica. For Ashley though, this all occurs in relatively short order. Within the span of less than a year, so it's all still new & exciting for her. She's still riding the high of the novelty of it all. After a while though, it does get old & pretty stale. This was Jessica's norm for years. & even early in the story, we see she's bored of all the glitz & glam & all of it. We can see Jessica really wanting a real human connection throughout it all. Now in the routes where Dave's girlfriend cheats on him & they split up, The reason why Jessica shifting more to being like how Ashley used to be, & opting for a more mundane life with Dave is actually pretty obvious & once you really look at it, It's clear that it's the only way it could have gone. She & dave were childhood friends. Likewise, she used to like to draw, before she got swept up in the life of hanging with celebs & clubbing & all the sex & shine. Though it's repeatedly made clear that she's bored with all that now. & when she & Dave reconnect, she rediscovers her love for drawing, & of course their relationship blossoms from there. She's happy with that because she wanted that human connection, something real. She doesn't miss the high life because she's been there, done that, there's nothing for it to offer her now.

Additionally, if you really pay close attention, even though she finds happiness in all the endings, not all of them really make her happy, more she makes the best of the circumstances she finds herself in. If you look at most of the endings & contrast them against the ending where she does stay faithful to Eric, There's a peaceful serenity & a deeply satisfying happiness that route ends on. You don't really see that in the other ones. You can tell she's happy in the moment, but we also know that happiness won't last due to a whole host of tells. & you can tell there's a lot about the roads that brought her to those various ends that does haunt her.

So, as you can see, if you ever want to be an even semi respectable writer, you must realize why your fixation on a specific outcome, even going so far as to break fundamental rules of story & character crafting to get to it, is self destructive to your own narrative goals. You might be happy with shoehorning the narrative into that end, but your audience is rolling their eyes & saying "What a joke" at your flawed & broken writing. Get the point?
What the F (you really make a essay for my post why just ignored it)
ok to let make it simple first of all im not a writer but i want to be one. second i dont know the rules in making narrative, i dont know that theres a such thing rules in making narrative that are unbreakable. third im not mad im just sharing my perspective:LOL: plese dont mad.

i know all character has no happy ending but satisying ending yes they have all depend what you choice in your route.

you said "However, There's no element of that with Ashley, there's no empathy, or real representation of love in those scenes, there's no moment of "I love him, how could I do this to him? How could I hurt him this way?" It's as though, aside from superficial relative morality, sociopathy & narcissism reigns supreme.". there is but hidden it was not represent in text but the action you choice in the next scene or in the future scene (i dont know how to say it, im not good in english). the choice is not only goes for ashley fate but other characters fate let say the one scene the first bar scene, how this scene affect to the future scene if you take drugs what will happen, if you bring eva what will happen, if you flirt with jack what will happen or if drink to much what will happen. would you take the consequence or will you redem in future run. the author (evakiss) assume that you will take the responsibilty of ashley because you choice the path for him or any other character involved. Its not about the feelings of the chracter its about what you choice for you character and the people involved.the problem of other VN is no impact to audience and the choice they want thats why they criticize (im not one of them :LOL:).
I get your morality of happinesss i agree with you for that (y).
But
I dont agree with your "even going so far as to break fundamental rules of story & character crafting to get to it, is self destructive to your own narrative goals. You might be happy with shoehorning the narrative into that end, but your audience is rolling their eyes & saying "What a joke" at your flawed & broken writing." . this is only apply in linear story but in multiple route/ending we can destroy the narrative goals without flawed & broken writing.
 

rhcp725

Member
Jun 19, 2020
384
536
The problem being to achieve that ending you literally have the break the story. To purposely do that is actively choosing to abandon the principals of writing integrity. Can it be done, sure it could. But when the writer says he will not compromise his writing to shoehorn in an ending that is story breaking understand it is not going to happen. He will not change his mind because he respects the concept of story integrity too much to do so.
 

Slappy Kinkaid

Active Member
Game Developer
Apr 14, 2018
607
852
What the F (you really make a essay for my post why just ignored it)
ok to let make it simple first of all im not a writer but i want to be one. second i dont know the rules in making narrative, i dont know that theres a such thing rules in making narrative that are unbreakable. third im not mad im just sharing my perspective:LOL: plese dont mad.

i know all character has no happy ending but satisying ending yes they have all depend what you choice in your route.

you said "However, There's no element of that with Ashley, there's no empathy, or real representation of love in those scenes, there's no moment of "I love him, how could I do this to him? How could I hurt him this way?" It's as though, aside from superficial relative morality, sociopathy & narcissism reigns supreme.". there is but hidden it was not represent in text but the action you choice in the next scene or in the future scene (i dont know how to say it, im not good in english). the choice is not only goes for ashley fate but other characters fate let say the one scene the first bar scene, how this scene affect to the future scene if you take drugs what will happen, if you bring eva what will happen, if you flirt with jack what will happen or if drink to much what will happen. would you take the consequence or will you redem in future run. the author (evakiss) assume that you will take the responsibilty of ashley because you choice the path for him or any other character involved. Its not about the feelings of the chracter its about what you choice for you character and the people involved.the problem of other VN is no impact to audience and the choice they want thats why they criticize (im not one of them :LOL:).
I get your morality of happinesss i agree with you for that (y).
But
I dont agree with your "even going so far as to break fundamental rules of story & character crafting to get to it, is self destructive to your own narrative goals. You might be happy with shoehorning the narrative into that end, but your audience is rolling their eyes & saying "What a joke" at your flawed & broken writing." . this is only apply in linear story but in multiple route/ending we can destroy the narrative goals without flawed & broken writing.
I understand. You said you want to be a writer, so I'm trying to teach you some of the rules of how to do it the right way. The thing with writing any story, as I've pointed out in a number of prior posts, is you absolutely HAVE to keep characters real, believable, true to themselves & any changes in their structure have to be natural & organic & follow a flow of reason that explains why they shifted from A to B.
Now in GGGB, Like I said, there was a lot of good stuff I liked about that game. But one of the things that always rang hollow to me, as I indicated before, was the utter lack of any real introspection. One of the things that evakiss did do right, (for the most part), is pace it decently, so that every time she made a choice, each choice wasn't a far shift from her current position. So as she progresses down each varying path, the changes that take place are gradual, so there's a believable shift in the kind of person she is. That said, they kept her character rather blank, with more of a surface level archetype for the most part, because they wanted her more moldable & easily shapeable, leaving it to the audience to project what characteristics they want her to be onto her. That's great for gameplay, but nerfs the immersion into the story. I personally think GGGB, which admittedly was a great game, could have had a better story if Ashley's character was more thoroughly fleshed out. If she was given more depth to the elements of her psyche & persona that interplayed with the different roads she could go down & how these different facets of her psyche get fed into more by the choices she makes. We do se it kinda, but it's always skin deep. Every choice she makes is the "right" choice, she's happy & certain with it & resolute on that path. What we don't see is her making a choice, traveling down a rabbit hole, then realizing "Holy shit, What the fuck am I doing, this isn't me, I really fucked up". We don't see things going bad for her, or if they do go bad, she spins it to be happy with it. When Eric returns, on the paths where she decided to go a different route, discovering he's still alive, her reaction is always "Oh, I'm surprised to see you, K, moving on & forgetting this forever". That's not natural. That's not how people react. even if she decided that she's putting Eric in her past, there's still a lot of residual emotion there. There's still an affinity & bond there. So discovering he's still alive, seeing the man he's grown into, this would naturally trigger an emotional response in her & would also make her question the choices she made that led her to where she is now, deviating from the path she was on. & this wouldn't just be a passing here now, then gone forever moment, these are feelings & thoughts that would stick with her. This is how a real character is.

That is the biggest flaw of GGGB from a writing standpoint. There's no reflection, no introspection, No consequences for choosing choice a over choice b, no questioning of herself on it even, No traveling down one path or another to realize "I've made a grave mistake, & now I have to make amends for what I've done". There's no element of regret or moment of epiphany where she snaps out of the mentality she's in & realizes it's not where she wants to be, no opportunity for her to change course. It's all just "I pick a path and no matter what, that's the perfect path for me & I'm happy with it" It's all superficial, fleeting, & every path she believes is the right path with no consequences, just different outcomes that's exactly the perfect outcome for her. This isn't natural. There has to be opportunities for her to not only make mistakes, but realize them as mistakes & struggle with them. To have that inner turmoil over "what have I done?" It's overly superficial, narcissistic & in a way sociopathic. & this detracts from the story. It removes much of the adversity & the impact of the choices from it, as the choices have no impact. There's no ethical dilemma, all the choices are great with everything going well, it guts a lot of it.

Now, despite these criticisms I have of GGGB, I do still think it's a great story & there's more good about it than bad. No question. Personally I'd rank it a 7/10. What keeps it from being an 8 or a 9, lies within those details I laid out. Now an unskilled reader might not be able to identify these things, or articulate & identify them like a skilled writer such as myself can, However they do still notice them, & that effects their experience. Think of it like driving a car that needs service. One of the tires is low, the engine is running a bit rough, etc... Now when they get it serviced, the driver might not know what was wrong with it, they might not even really consciously register the issues, as they are likely used to them. But after the car is repaired, they do notice the engine running much smoother, the car performing better & more responsively, etc... So while they may not know what was wrong or what fixed it, they do know "Hey wow, I notice a major improvement here. This is MUCH BETTER". That is the idea.

It's a good idea to get familiar with the 6 Aristotelian elements, (or rules). Plot, Character, Thought, Diction, Spectacle & Song. Now you will note, on examination, that all but 2 of these rules is non character centric, & only 1 is not related to the character.

Plot is the overarching broadstrokes. the general central focus of the narrative of the tale. The amalgamation of the goals, events, circumstances & elements of what is going on.

Character is who are the people involved? What makes them who they are? What is their behavior, their temperment, values, beliefs, alignments, disposition. Etc... The nuts & bolts of what makes the characters who they are.

Thought expands on character, more centric to what's going on in their head. What are their attributes & where they fall in trait neuroticism, (i.e the big 5, extraversion, openness, agreeableness, conscientiousness & neuroticism). What is their internal monologue, How does their psychology interplay in with the things they say & do, the choices they make, the views & positions they hold, etc... Through internal monologue in this area, we also learn a lot about what is going on within the psyche & emotions of our characters.

Diction. This is dialogue. What they say and how they interact with each other. It's through this that the nature & vision of these characters are further fleshed out, but also how they bond, create conflict, & how the people around them & their environment interplay with these other facets of their character.

Spectacle. This is basically everything else. The visual & plot elements end of it. Setting, external factors, environment, everything else that is external from the characters falls within the spectacle. The visual element of the narrative.

Song, This isn't necessarily music, (As these rules do come from the days of Aristotle after all), but more flow of speech. Flow of dialogue. This really can be extrapolated to not just the flow of dialogue between characters, but pacing of the story & the narrative as a whole. But largely, it's all about the flow & fluidity of conversation & dialogue between the various characters.

As you can see, Only Spectacle isn't character centric, Plot is partially character centric, but all of the remaining rules are ALL about character. That is why I always say that the story is always about the people. Because the character structure & handling is so important that literally 3/4ths of the rules for writing are specifically all about them. The characters are where the story lives. The rest is all just set dressing.

& that is why handling the characters right is so important. Now I do want to be clear. I'm not saying adherence to these rules is what makes a story good or bad, Not in the arbitrary context of like I'm grading a test and making sure it conforms to a specific structure, where any deviation from it makes it bad by virtue of that deviation making it bad. That's not it at all. The point is more if there's problems with your story or script, or parts or segments that feel off or just don't read right, it's almost always because it wasn't written in adherence to these principals. So it's not like a story is automatically bad if it doesn't follow these rules, it's more like writing with adhering to these principals in mind helps ensure that your story is good, because that mindfulness of these principals will help you naturally shape it the right way to present the best version of story you wanted to tell.

Think of it like Jaywalking. There's obviously rules against it, but if you break that rule & jaywalk, no one is going to kick up a fuss. However, if while you're jaywalking, you get run over by a car that isn't really paying attention, then you getting run over is the natural negative consequence of you jaywalking & that negative consequence likely would not have befallen you if you had adhered to the rules & crossed the street at the proper crosswalk. Know what I mean? It's adherence to these rules that ensures that the tale you craft is the best possible version of the story you want to tell. Failure or refusal to do so doesn't prevent you from writing the story still, but the end product likely won't be as good, you'll struggle with making the pieces all fit together & you'll have character cohesion issues, plot holes, plot gaps, characters doing saying & doing things that don't align with their character structure, (like Henry & Aria getting together after Angelica leaves Henry for Mark, etc....).

So to summarize, what these all lead to is the cardinal rules of writing is focus on the characters, Make them real, grounded in reality, as multidimensional & fully fleshed out as possible, Keep them true to themselves, to their nature, & the rest pretty much writes itself. & in that, it will all fit together perfectly.
 
Last edited:

negeb18

Member
Dec 6, 2020
305
446
I understand. You said you want to be a writer, so I'm trying to teach you some of the rules of how to do it the right way. The thing with writing any story, as I've pointed out in a number of prior posts, is you absolutely HAVE to keep characters real, believable, true to themselves & any changes in their structure have to be natural & organic & follow a flow of reason that explains why they shifted from A to B.
Now in GGGB, Like I said, there was a lot of good stuff I liked about that game. But one of the things that always rang hollow to me, as I indicated before, was the utter lack of any real introspection. One of the things that evakiss did do right, (for the most part), is pace it decently, so that every time she made a choice, each choice wasn't a far shift from her current position. So as she progresses down each varying path, the changes that take place are gradual, so there's a believable shift in the kind of person she is. That said, they kept her character rather blank, with more of a surface level archetype for the most part, because they wanted her more moldable & easily shapeable, leaving it to the audience to project what characteristics they want her to be onto her. That's great for gameplay, but nerfs the immersion into the story. I personally think GGGB, which admittedly was a great game, could have had a better story if Ashley's character was more thoroughly fleshed out. If she was given more depth to the elements of her psyche & persona that interplayed with the different roads she could go down & how these different facets of her psyche get fed into more by the choices she makes. We do se it kinda, but it's always skin deep. Every choice she makes is the "right" choice, she's happy & certain with it & resolute on that path. What we don't see is her making a choice, traveling down a rabbit hole, then realizing "Holy shit, What the fuck am I doing, this isn't me, I really fucked up". We don't see things going bad for her, or if they do go bad, she spins it to be happy with it. When Eric returns, on the paths where she decided to go a different route, discovering he's still alive, her reaction is always "Oh, I'm surprised to see you, K, moving on & forgetting this forever". That's not natural. That's not how people react. even if she decided that she's putting Eric in her past, there's still a lot of residual emotion there. There's still an affinity & bond there. So discovering he's still alive, seeing the man he's grown into, this would naturally trigger an emotional response in her & would also make her question the choices she made that led her to where she is now, deviating from the path she was on. & this wouldn't just be a passing here now, then gone forever moment, these are feelings & thoughts that would stick with her. This is how a real character is.

That is the biggest flaw of GGGB from a writing standpoint. There's no reflection, no introspection, No consequences for choosing choice a over choice b, no questioning of herself on it even, No traveling down one path or another to realize "I've made a grave mistake, & now I have to make amends for what I've done". There's no element of regret or moment of epiphany where she snaps out of the mentality she's in & realizes it's not where she wants to be, no opportunity for her to change course. It's all just "I pick a path and no matter what, that's the perfect path for me & I'm happy with it" It's all superficial, fleeting, & every path she believes is the right path with no consequences, just different outcomes that's exactly the perfect outcome for her. This isn't natural. There has to be opportunities for her to not only make mistakes, but realize them as mistakes & struggle with them. To have that inner turmoil over "what have I done?" It's overly superficial, narcissistic & in a way sociopathic. & this detracts from the story. It removes much of the adversity & the impact of the choices from it, as the choices have no impact. There's no ethical dilemma, all the choices are great with everything going well, it guts a lot of it.

Now, despite these criticisms I have of GGGB, I do still think it's a great story & there's more good about it than bad. No question. Personally I'd rank it a 7/10. What keeps it from being an 8 or a 9, lies within those details I laid out. Now an unskilled reader might not be able to identify these things, or articulate & identify them like a skilled writer such as myself can, However they do still notice them, & that effects their experience. Think of it like driving a car that needs service. One of the tires is low, the engine is running a bit rough, etc... Now when they get it serviced, the driver might not know what was wrong with it, they might not even really consciously register the issues, as they are likely used to them. But after the car is repaired, they do notice the engine running much smoother, the car performing better & more responsively, etc... So while they may not know what was wrong or what fixed it, they do know "Hey wow, I notice a major improvement here. This is MUCH BETTER". That is the idea.

It's a good idea to get familiar with the 6 Aristotelian elements, (or rules). Plot, Character, Thought, Diction, Spectacle & Song. Now you will note, on examination, that all but 2 of these rules is non character centric, & only 1 is not related to the character.

Plot is the overarching broadstrokes. the general central focus of the narrative of the tale. The amalgamation of the goals, events, circumstances & elements of what is going on.

Character is who are the people involved? What makes them who they are? What is their behavior, their temperment, values, beliefs, alignments, disposition. Etc... The nuts & bolts of what makes the characters who they are.

Thought expands on character, more centric to what's going on in their head. What are their attributes & where they fall in trait neuroticism, (i.e the big 5, extraversion, openness, agreeableness, conscientiousness & neuroticism). What is their internal monologue, How does their psychology interplay in with the things they say & do, the choices they make, the views & positions they hold, etc... Through internal monologue in this area, we also learn a lot about what is going on within the psyche & emotions of our characters.

Diction. This is dialogue. What they say and how they interact with each other. It's through this that the nature & vision of these characters are further fleshed out, but also how they bond, create conflict, & how the people around them & their environment interplay with these other facets of their character.

Spectacle. This is basically everything else. The visual & plot elements end of it. Setting, external factors, environment, everything else that is external from the characters falls within the spectacle. The visual element of the narrative.

Song, This isn't necessarily music, (As these rules do come from the days of Aristotle after all), but more flow of speech. Flow of dialogue. This really can be extrapolated to not just the flow of dialogue between characters, but pacing of the story & the narrative as a whole. But largely, it's all about the flow & fluidity of conversation & dialogue between the various characters.

As you can see, Only Spectacle isn't character centric, Plot is partially character centric, but all of the remaining rules are ALL about character. That is why I always say that the story is always about the people. Because the character structure & handling is so important that literally 3/4ths of the rules for writing are specifically all about them. The characters are where the story lives. The rest is all just set dressing.

& that is why handling the characters right is so important. Now I do want to be clear. I'm not saying adherence to these rules is what makes a story good or bad, Not in the arbitrary context of like I'm grading a test and making sure it conforms to a specific structure, where any deviation from it makes it bad by virtue of that deviation making it bad. That's not it at all. The point is more if there's problems with your story or script, or parts or segments that feel off or just don't read right, it's almost always because it wasn't written in adherence to these principals. So it's not like a story is automatically bad if it doesn't follow these rules, it's more like writing with adhering to these principals in mind helps ensure that your story is good, because that mindfulness of these principals will help you naturally shape it the right way to present the best version of story you wanted to tell.

Think of it like Jaywalking. There's obviously rules against it, but if you break that rule & jaywalk, no one is going to kick up a fuss. However, if while you're jaywalking, you get run over by a car that isn't really paying attention, then you getting run over is the natural negative consequence of you jaywalking & that negative consequence likely would not have befallen you if you had adhered to the rules & crossed the street at the proper crosswalk. Know what I mean? It's adherence to these rules that ensures that the tale you craft is the best possible version of the story you want to tell. Failure or refusal to do so doesn't prevent you from writing the story still, but the end product likely won't be as good, you'll struggle with making the pieces all fit together & you'll have character cohesion issues, plot holes, plot gaps, characters doing saying & doing things that don't align with their character structure, (like Henry & Aria getting together after Angelica leaves Henry for Mark, etc....).

So to summarize, what these all lead to is the cardinal rules of writing is focus on the characters, Make them real, grounded in reality, as multidimensional & fully fleshed out as possible, Keep them true to themselves, to their nature, & the rest pretty much writes itself. & in that, it will all fit together perfectly.
Thank you for giving me an idea for my VN.

I completely agree with what you mentioned. I'm not saying Angelica Temptation is horrible or wonderful because it isn't done yet.However, the story is intriguing, and their own agenda makes the VN enjoyable.However, if they make aria+henry and mark+angie the ending, this is the story's biggest plot twist.

I'm not very good at writing stories, but I'll use this concept in my narrative.
But I disagree that there is an unbreakable rule in narrative, such as this kind of character should not end up as this character because of this because of that.
I hate to admit it, but everything is possible if you have a strong imagination.

I'm sure you're a fantastic writer, so why not try making VN?
 

rhcp725

Member
Jun 19, 2020
384
536
negeb18 you are aware that slappy is the developer of this very vn. Also i don't now how to be more clear about this. Aria/Henry + Mark/Angelica will NEVER happen as an ending.
 

negeb18

Member
Dec 6, 2020
305
446
negeb18 you are aware that slappy is the developer of this very vn. Also i don't now how to be more clear about this. Aria/Henry + Mark/Angelica will NEVER happen as an ending.
What? I'm not aware of it.That is why she writes an essay on her game. Sorry about that, I'm not criticizing her game, I just want to add additional ideas, like Aria/Henry + Mark/Angelica. It's up to her whether she wants to add it or not, I'm not in charge, it's her choice, but I'm hoping she'll reconsider and include this concept.
 

rhcp725

Member
Jun 19, 2020
384
536
Slappy is a guy. Also he is not going to reconsider because it's not plausible based on characteristics/traits of the 4 in question.
 

Slappy Kinkaid

Active Member
Game Developer
Apr 14, 2018
607
852
Thank you for giving me an idea for my VN.

I completely agree with what you mentioned. I'm not saying Angelica Temptation is horrible or wonderful because it isn't done yet.However, the story is intriguing, and their own agenda makes the VN enjoyable.However, if they make aria+henry and mark+angie the ending, this is the story's biggest plot twist.

I'm not very good at writing stories, but I'll use this concept in my narrative.
But I disagree that there is an unbreakable rule in narrative, such as this kind of character should not end up as this character because of this because of that.
I hate to admit it, but everything is possible if you have a strong imagination.

I'm sure you're a fantastic writer, so why not try making VN?
Just to be clear, as rhcp725 said, I'm a guy, not a chick, sorry for any confusion that may have led to that. I've spoken pretty openly about having a wife and a couple other girlfriends that live with me.

I get that you disagree that there's no unbreakable rules, but please take this in the way it's intended, as I mean no disrespect, but as you also said, you're also new to writing, (I don't want to say bad, because inexperienced isn't really a good gauge for potential). It is true that if you have a strong imagination, anything & everything is possible, sure. But for your story to actually work well, it has to be done the right way.

Let me ask, when you see behind the scenes of actors playing roles, You ever seen them ask "What's my motivation?" There's a reason for that. They're asking "Why is this character doing this?" So the big question we need to ask, is for Henry & Aria to end up together, with Angelica & Mark ending up together, What is their motivation? Henry doesn't like Aria, Aria REALLY dislikes Henry. So why would they decide to get together after Angelica leaves Henry for Mark? The whole reason why Mark is staying with them in the first place, instead of with Aria or any other number of places he could stay is
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.

So as you can see, Angelica leaving Henry for Mark makes sense. But either Aria or Henry deciding "Well let's hook up with each other" doesn't make sense because when you take into account the characters that they are & how they feel about each other, the the obvious question is "Why the hell would they do that? It makes no sense".

Think of it like this, Think of another example of another writer that thought there were no rules when writing, that he could do anything he wanted to do. His name was Tommy Wiseau, He's the guy that wrote "The Room". That movie is known for pretty much just 1 thing & that's being comically bad. The writing & poor dialogue is at the core of that. Even with good actors, good cinematography & a good director, it still wouldn't be salvageable as a "good" movie. It was so bad that a movie about the making of it was made called "The disaster artist". Is that the kind of effect you're going for with your story? If not, then there's rules for how to write to make the written product good.

Now, for contrast, look at someone like Aaron Sorkin, the writer for The West Wing, The Newsroom, Studio 60 on the Sunset strip, Sports Night, The American President, Money Ball, A few Good Men & a whole bunch of other projects. Watch some of his work. Take notice of how he handles the characters. Look at the dialogue, the pacing, the logic & consistency of the characters themselves. He's a master at his craft & his body of work shows it. He adheres strictly to the Aristotelian rules that I laid out before. As do other greats in this genre like Karl Iglesias, William Goldman, Bill Lawrence, Michael Hague, the list goes on & on. I'll give you a few more visual examples, plus a couple clips of these creators speaking on it

Arron Sorkin on Character: The whole video I think would be good for you to watch, but the salient points are from about the 42 minute mark to about 45 minutes. So if you're pressed for time, or can't be bothered to watch it all, those 3 minutes are the important part:

Here's Karl Iglesias going over similar principals:


Now, for a visual demonstration of some of these principals at work, take note of the following examples:
This first one is pulled from The West Wing. For context, the characters involved are Leo McGarry, which is President Jed Bartlett's Chief of Staff, basically the president's right hand man. Both Jed & Leo are staunch Democrats. The female character is Ainsley Hayes, a conservative, party line Republican political commentator & analyst. The first clip is the setup to the second. In the first, we see Ainsley & Sam Seaborn, Part of Leo's staff debating. That clip is to give you context. The important details are in the second scene. Take note of the nuances & characteristics of the characters. Leo is an easy going, charismatic old guy, Ainsly is a very driven, opinionated but also extremely high anxiety woman. Take note of how these character traits are used to interplay in the banter between them, & how these scenes are shaped. The way the dialogue is shaped, the flow, cadence & pace of it. These are all critical elements of making it read well & pull the viewer into the scene as though they were looking at real people. First the clip of Ainsley & Sam on Capitol Beat:

Now the Clip of Ainsley & Leo:

Now, there is a LOT to unpack here. Don't worry so much about the subject matter of the scenes, but more how they are built, especially the second one. Like I said, dialogue is HUGE. The cadence, the banter, the flow, all of it. Even the asides that aren't pertinent to the content of the scene, for example:
Leo: "You have an interesting conversational style, you know that?"
Ainsley: "It's a nervous condition"
Leo: "I used to have a nervous condition"
Ainsley: "How did yours manifest itself?"
Leo: "I drank a lot of scotch"
Ainsley "I get sick when I drink too much"
Leo: "I get drunk when I drink too much"
Now this all may seem like extra filler, but it's not. This bit of banter shows 2 things. 1, it adds a splash of comedic levity to a predominantly dramatic narrative, & 2, it helps create the illusion that these are not actors playing a role, but rather 2 real people having a conversation. This is CRITICAL for pulling the viewer into that world, making them feel like their a fly on the wall of their reality which lends itself immeasurably to making the viewer bond & invest themselves emotionally in these characters. By writing these actors dialogues like it was a real conversation between 2 people, by writing the things Leo says as the easy going, charismatic older guy he is, & Ainsley as the high strung, neurotic firebrand that she is, they FEEL REAL. & it's that adherence in keeping the writing true to the character that not just engages but keeps the characters true too themselves. That is the magic of good writing.
Here's another of Ainsley meeting with President Bartlett:

Again, a lot going on in that scene & a lot of little nuanced bits here & there that make it all flow organically & naturally. These are the pieces that make for good writing.
Now here's one that emphasizes the more dramatic end: There's actually a scene with a lot of these elements in the next update.


Let me take another approach. You argue that there are no unbreakable rules because with strong imagination, anything is possible right? Let's test that theory.

asd'gjl'a'ksdssgj'asdjg'sjker;jwiperur9-ir-w4i-4529554tiiewtiujasiggjsaidjgfisjgk;adjgpd

Now I say the above listed line of gibberish ^^^^ is a complete story. Is it? is it even intelligible? Well the obvious answer is no. It's just someone spazzing out on the keyboard. But if all we apply is the principal of "There's no rules, it's all imagination", technically my claim of that being a complete story is completely valid. But is that a story worth investing anything into, Even with that premise? No. It's not. So at the baseline, we're still constrained to at least the basic rules of grammar & word / sentence structure. We still have to arrange the letters & words in a specific order, with specific grammar to make those letters effectively communicate something. There's an old joke that the Dictionary contains the greatest story ever written. The punchline obviously is it's just a matter of taking the words from it & arranging them in the right order to get that story.

Think if it like any other art medium. If I were to take a pencil & just scribble haphazardly on a piece of paper, sure I could claim it was a bird, but all the viewer sees is what looks like a 2 year old scribbling with crayons. In order for the viewer to see the bird I'm drawing, I have to make sure the lines & shading & all the other bits I draw on the page look like a bird.

When writing a story, you're drawing the picture with words. So the words on the page MUST conform to the picture you wish to paint. & if you write a character as A, then have them inexplicably shift to B, that leads to the reader asking "Wait what? That doesn't make sense. Why are they..." & then you lost them. The immersion is broken once that happens, the magic is gone, they are now looking behind the curtain. Instead of being captivated by the story, their mind is now focused on figuring out how things shifted so drastically & inexplicably. That is what you don't want. That is the death knell for a good story.

So, we're stuck again asking the question, Why would Henry & Aria get together at all, Let alone in a context where Angelica leaves Henry for Mark? What within either of them would make them say "This is a relationship I want", when everything within their current character frameworks are antithetical to that? How would we get Aria & Henery both to a place within their own psyche's where they both want it, then mobilize them to move towards it? Therein lies the problem.

Now if it makes you feel any better, there are endings where Mark & Angelica end up together, (Though those are in future updates), there are endings where both Angelica & Aria end up with Mark, Where they both end up with Henry, & there may even be one where Aria & Henry end up together, without the mark & angelica angle being a factor. But to get to those places requires getting the characters there first && under very specific circumstances. Because it HAS to be done that way to keep the reader engaged & the magic of the tale intact. Otherwise, it breaks & then that takes away from the story.

Now, when you are writing your own stories, you certainly can create anything you want like that. But you have to craft the characters in a way where that is a natural & realistic trajectory for them. Otherwise, you'll have issues with your script. Hope that makes more sense
 
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Slappy Kinkaid

Active Member
Game Developer
Apr 14, 2018
607
852
GGGB doesn't break the cardinal rule though, characters like Jessica are written as someone who got lost in a status and ensuing lifestyle (to sum it up quickly) and is designed so that the player's influence will either let her stay lost or give her an opening at redemption.

Being true to one's self involves more than one attribute, people are capable of being considerably more complex than that.
Hear hear. Well said.
 
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SevenCostanza

Member
Mar 3, 2021
484
937
The only way I could see Henery and Aria being together is if they were both the victims of some truly heinous betrayal by Mark and Angelica and bonded through their mutual trauma and desire to get revenge maybe. It would have to be some very specific and extenuating circumstances for them to be together and it will never be out of actual affection and love. Even that scenario above is hard to imagine in the context of the game because Aria just being a third wheel to Mark and Angelica seems much more likely and something she would prefer over Henrey. Possibly in some kind of dlc addon 'what if?' type thing where you can go any direction and be as niche as you want since it's not canon.
 
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