VN Ren'Py Abandoned Angelica's Temptation: From the Beginning [v0.3.1 Patreon] [Saruh]

[rhcp725]

I assure you there are ways to take Henry/Aria that can be real feelings that are obtainable without complete breaking of character. You're just going to have to wait and see for yourself when the time comes.

 

[negeb18]

Just to be clear, as rhcp725 said, I'm a guy, not a chick, sorry for any confusion that may have led to that. I've spoken pretty openly about having a wife and a couple other girlfriends that live with me.

I get that you disagree that there's no unbreakable rules, but please take this in the way it's intended, as I mean no disrespect, but as you also said, you're also new to writing, (I don't want to say bad, because inexperienced isn't really a good gauge for potential). It is true that if you have a strong imagination, anything & everything is possible, sure. But for your story to actually work well, it has to be done the right way.

Let me ask, when you see behind the scenes of actors playing roles, You ever seen them ask "What's my motivation?" There's a reason for that. They're asking "Why is this character doing this?" So the big question we need to ask, is for Henry & Aria to end up together, with Angelica & Mark ending up together, What is their motivation? Henry doesn't like Aria, Aria REALLY dislikes Henry. So why would they decide to get together after Angelica leaves Henry for Mark? The whole reason why Mark is staying with them in the first place, instead of with Aria or any other number of places he could stay is

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.

So as you can see, Angelica leaving Henry for Mark makes sense. But either Aria or Henry deciding "Well let's hook up with each other" doesn't make sense because when you take into account the characters that they are & how they feel about each other, the the obvious question is "Why the hell would they do that? It makes no sense".

Think of it like this, Think of another example of another writer that thought there were no rules when writing, that he could do anything he wanted to do. His name was Tommy Wiseau, He's the guy that wrote "The Room". That movie is known for pretty much just 1 thing & that's being comically bad. The writing & poor dialogue is at the core of that. Even with good actors, good cinematography & a good director, it still wouldn't be salvageable as a "good" movie. It was so bad that a movie about the making of it was made called "The disaster artist". Is that the kind of effect you're going for with your story? If not, then there's rules for how to write to make the written product good.

Now, for contrast, look at someone like Aaron Sorkin, the writer for The West Wing, The Newsroom, Studio 60 on the Sunset strip, Sports Night, The American President, Money Ball, A few Good Men & a whole bunch of other projects. Watch some of his work. Take notice of how he handles the characters. Look at the dialogue, the pacing, the logic & consistency of the characters themselves. He's a master at his craft & his body of work shows it. He adheres strictly to the Aristotelian rules that I laid out before. As do other greats in this genre like Karl Iglesias, William Goldman, Bill Lawrence, Michael Hague, the list goes on & on. I'll give you a few more visual examples, plus a couple clips of these creators speaking on it

Arron Sorkin on Character: The whole video I think would be good for you to watch, but the salient points are from about the 42 minute mark to about 45 minutes. So if you're pressed for time, or can't be bothered to watch it all, those 3 minutes are the important part:

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Here's Karl Iglesias going over similar principals:

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Now, for a visual demonstration of some of these principals at work, take note of the following examples:
This first one is pulled from The West Wing. For context, the characters involved are Leo McGarry, which is President Jed Bartlett's Chief of Staff, basically the president's right hand man. Both Jed & Leo are staunch Democrats. The female character is Ainsley Hayes, a conservative, party line Republican political commentator & analyst. The first clip is the setup to the second. In the first, we see Ainsley & Sam Seaborn, Part of Leo's staff debating. That clip is to give you context. The important details are in the second scene. Take note of the nuances & characteristics of the characters. Leo is an easy going, charismatic old guy, Ainsly is a very driven, opinionated but also extremely high anxiety woman. Take note of how these character traits are used to interplay in the banter between them, & how these scenes are shaped. The way the dialogue is shaped, the flow, cadence & pace of it. These are all critical elements of making it read well & pull the viewer into the scene as though they were looking at real people. First the clip of Ainsley & Sam on Capitol Beat:

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Now the Clip of Ainsley & Leo:

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Now, there is a LOT to unpack here. Don't worry so much about the subject matter of the scenes, but more how they are built, especially the second one. Like I said, dialogue is HUGE. The cadence, the banter, the flow, all of it. Even the asides that aren't pertinent to the content of the scene, for example:
Leo: "You have an interesting conversational style, you know that?"
Ainsley: "It's a nervous condition"
Leo: "I used to have a nervous condition"
Ainsley: "How did yours manifest itself?"
Leo: "I drank a lot of scotch"
Ainsley "I get sick when I drink too much"
Leo: "I get drunk when I drink too much"
Now this all may seem like extra filler, but it's not. This bit of banter shows 2 things. 1, it adds a splash of comedic levity to a predominantly dramatic narrative, & 2, it helps create the illusion that these are not actors playing a role, but rather 2 real people having a conversation. This is CRITICAL for pulling the viewer into that world, making them feel like their a fly on the wall of their reality which lends itself immeasurably to making the viewer bond & invest themselves emotionally in these characters. By writing these actors dialogues like it was a real conversation between 2 people, by writing the things Leo says as the easy going, charismatic older guy he is, & Ainsley as the high strung, neurotic firebrand that she is, they FEEL REAL. & it's that adherence in keeping the writing true to the character that not just engages but keeps the characters true too themselves. That is the magic of good writing.
Here's another of Ainsley meeting with President Bartlett:

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Again, a lot going on in that scene & a lot of little nuanced bits here & there that make it all flow organically & naturally. These are the pieces that make for good writing.
Now here's one that emphasizes the more dramatic end: There's actually a scene with a lot of these elements in the next update.

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Let me take another approach. You argue that there are no unbreakable rules because with strong imagination, anything is possible right? Let's test that theory.

asd'gjl'a'ksdssgj'asdjg'sjker;jwiperur9-ir-w4i-4529554tiiewtiujasiggjsaidjgfisjgk;adjgpd

Now I say the above listed line of gibberish ^^^^ is a complete story. Is it? is it even intelligible? Well the obvious answer is no. It's just someone spazzing out on the keyboard. But if all we apply is the principal of "There's no rules, it's all imagination", technically my claim of that being a complete story is completely valid. But is that a story worth investing anything into, Even with that premise? No. It's not. So at the baseline, we're still constrained to at least the basic rules of grammar & word / sentence structure. We still have to arrange the letters & words in a specific order, with specific grammar to make those letters effectively communicate something. There's an old joke that the Dictionary contains the greatest story ever written. The punchline obviously is it's just a matter of taking the words from it & arranging them in the right order to get that story.

Think if it like any other art medium. If I were to take a pencil & just scribble haphazardly on a piece of paper, sure I could claim it was a bird, but all the viewer sees is what looks like a 2 year old scribbling with crayons. In order for the viewer to see the bird I'm drawing, I have to make sure the lines & shading & all the other bits I draw on the page look like a bird.

When writing a story, you're drawing the picture with words. So the words on the page MUST conform to the picture you wish to paint. & if you write a character as A, then have them inexplicably shift to B, that leads to the reader asking "Wait what? That doesn't make sense. Why are they..." & then you lost them. The immersion is broken once that happens, the magic is gone, they are now looking behind the curtain. Instead of being captivated by the story, their mind is now focused on figuring out how things shifted so drastically & inexplicably. That is what you don't want. That is the death knell for a good story.

So, we're stuck again asking the question, Why would Henry & Aria get together at all, Let alone in a context where Angelica leaves Henry for Mark? What within either of them would make them say "This is a relationship I want", when everything within their current character frameworks are antithetical to that? How would we get Aria & Henery both to a place within their own psyche's where they both want it, then mobilize them to move towards it? Therein lies the problem.

Now if it makes you feel any better, there are endings where Mark & Angelica end up together, (Though those are in future updates), there are endings where both Angelica & Aria end up with Mark, Where they both end up with Henry, & there may even be one where Aria & Henry end up together, without the mark & angelica angle being a factor. But to get to those places requires getting the characters there first && under very specific circumstances. Because it HAS to be done that way to keep the reader engaged & the magic of the tale intact. Otherwise, it breaks & then that takes away from the story.

Now, when you are writing your own stories, you certainly can create anything you want like that. But you have to craft the characters in a way where that is a natural & realistic trajectory for them. Otherwise, you'll have issues with your script. Hope that makes more sense

Thank you for giving me pointers on how to build a character in my VN. I appreciate you responding even though I'm an annoying stranger on the internet. I'll take note of this and apply it to my VN.

But I disagree with your opinion of having a strong imagination and turning gibbrish text into a story. Yes, a powerful or creative imagination is required to break narrative goals without defective or broken writing. Everyone knows that gibbresh is a broken writing language.

I'm not going to teach you how to write a narrative since I'm not a writer and you are, but I will show you my idea. It's difficult to say this in English because I'm not very good at it, but I'll try.

I'm not talking about the story's characters, their agendas, or their motives; I'm talking about the possibilities of what may happen. I'm comparing GGGB to yours because of the possibilities. There are many endings in GGGB, including gangster endings, pornstar endings, wife endings, slave endings, lesbian endings, and so on. Every character, including Kevin, serves a purpose in Ashley's life. Every path has a significant impact on Ashley. There are numerous options based on the scenario you like. This game is similar to GGGB but focuses solely on Aria, Henry, and Mark. I'm not demanding Aria+Henry and Mark+Angie , but you should. The only explanation I can think of is why not?.
I know you can accomplish it because you know more than I do, and don't listen to what others say. Break the cycle and rise above.

 

[Jacky Bruce]

Hi Guys

Do we have gallery mod for all scenes unlocked ?

 

[StrangeSilver]

gallery cg in game just broken so there no gallery for it

 

[Slappy Kinkaid]

I'll try to see what I can do to fix it in the coming update. That said, I personally don't really care about that shit, That was a Saruh thing. Like I've said many times, I'm a writer. So if someone wants to just skip the story & just watch the fap scenes, then really, this ain't the game for you, (especially since you can just as easily make a save file at whatever scenes you want & just load it there).
I don't put the work into the story for some asshole to say "cool cool, where's the jackoff material?" Man, fuck off with that bullshit. lol. If that's all you're, (general you, not you specifically), interested in, go to pornhub. I'm here to write a story.

 

[Old Dog]

I'll try to see what I can do to fix it in the coming update. That said, I personally don't really care about that shit, That was a Saruh thing. Like I've said many times, I'm a writer. So if someone wants to just skip the story & just watch the fap scenes, then really, this ain't the game for you, (especially since you can just as easily make a save file at whatefer scenes you want & just load it there).
I don't put the work into the story for some asshole to say "cool cool, where's the jackoff material?" Man, fuck off with that bullshit. lol. If that's all you're, (general you, not you specifically), interested in, go to pornhub. I'm here to write a story.

I do about the Gallery thing as I have always seen that as a way for people who don't care about the game/story and just want a quick fap and as you have said they can always make a save at certain points

 

[rhcp725]

The gallery is not unlocked until you have seen the content. So it's not available unless you've actually played the game. No one that i know of has made a mod that unlocks it without needing to play it.

 

[Slappy Kinkaid]

I do about the Gallery thing as I have always seen that as a way for people who don't care about the game/story and just want a quick fap and as you have said they can always make a save at certain points

The gallery is not unlocked until you have seen the content. So it's not available unless you've actually played the game. No one that i know of has made a mod that unlocks it without needing to play it.

Facts my dudes. Thanks.

 

[Old Dog]

Well back to my rendering I guess

 

[rhcp725]

Slappy kind of came of a little harsh there but in a way it's understandable. With all the time invested in writing, coding and rendering the project to have someone ask just for the fap content can be seen as disrespecting the effort involved in the creation of the project. Did he handle it in the best way possible? Obviously not but he has a right to feel like the vn is being disrespected when someone ignores the effort put into the story as a whole.

 

[Swooosh]

I'll try to see what I can do to fix it in the coming update. That said, I personally don't really care about that shit, That was a Saruh thing. Like I've said many times, I'm a writer. So if someone wants to just skip the story & just watch the fap scenes, then really, this ain't the game for you, (especially since you can just as easily make a save file at whatever scenes you want & just load it there).
I don't put the work into the story for some asshole to say "cool cool, where's the jackoff material?" Man, fuck off with that bullshit. lol. If that's all you're, (general you, not you specifically), interested in, go to pornhub. I'm here to write a story.

Small problem: this is a porn game in a porn forum...

 

[rhcp725]

Angelica's Temptation is an adult visual novel. The word novel implies its a story. The difference between this and straight porn is the story. If you just want fap content go to pornhub. Yes this vn does have a ton of sexual content but there is so much more to it then just the sex. Thinking this is only about the porn element is extremely disrespectful to the amount of effort being put into creating characters you give a dam about and want to know what happens next. If you want straight porn go to pornhub, our goal is to provide a better experience that keeps you interested post orgasm.

 

[DIRTY FILTHY Animal]

negeb18 you are aware that slappy is the developer of this very vn. Also i don't now how to be more clear about this. Aria/Henry + Mark/Angelica will NEVER happen as an ending.

Even if the story took you towards this path, wouldn’t just one anonymous phone call to the police about Mark & Arias money laundering art scheme put them in jail and break off both marriages. Now would Henery beg Angelica to get back with him or make her beg, maybe. Or maybe he’s tired of all her drama and since he has the good job and she doesn’t he could play try to find someone who will remain faithful to him

 

[Slappy Kinkaid]

Even if the story took you towards this path, wouldn’t just one anonymous phone call to the police about Mark & Arias money laundering art scheme put them in jail and break off both marriages. Now would Henery beg Angelica to get back with him or make her beg, maybe. Or maybe he’s tired of all her drama and since he has the good job and she doesn’t he could play try to find someone who will remain faithful to him

You're on the right track, & there's some things in the works along that same line

 

[Old Dog]

Why has this game not a fan art section yet?
Just to change the conversation

 

[Slappy Kinkaid]

Why has this game not a fan art section yet?
Just to change the conversation

I think it does, just a different thread somewhere, I'll send ya the link when I get a chance to find it

 

[Old Dog]

I think it does, just a different thread somewhere, I'll send ya the link when I get a chance to find it

cheers my good man what a gentleman

 

[TheGodUncle]

Ok, I'm fed up. Dude, just leave. You apparently can't stop being an asshole, so since you keep pushing, that's exactly what you're going to get, you insipid cunt. If you want just porn, go to fucking pornhub you brain dead towhead. This is Porn AND a story. Smart people are able to figure that out. Then again, Smart is something you clearly are not, as you prove time & time & time again. So I'm done putting up with your stupidity. So LEAVE. If you're a Parton, cancel your support & get the fuck out. You've worn out your welcome. Don't Play the game, Don't pollute my thread with your stupid bullshit, just fuck off. I don't want you anywhere near me or my game. Do you understand? Before I was just annoyed, now you've pushed me to outright hostile. Leave.

Ah, so you weren't hostile whenever anyone else gave more criticism than you liked, gave criticism you didn't like, wanted a certain storyline you didn't agree with, didn't like that updates took so long or any other reason you don't think is correct? You were just the perfect host then?

You do know there's a report button you can use if you think a comment doesn't belong in the thread right? It's really easy to use and can give you better results than just insulting people.

 

[Old Dog]

We all get hostile at times but you cannot just place it all at the dev's door.
I have talked with Slappy Kinkaid and I have never had a problem with him but we all do have our off days

 

[rhcp725]

Slappy only has two modes. Silent observation or aggressively outspoken. The majority of the time he is perfectly content letting me do the communication on behalf of the game because i tend to be more civil and patient with answering the same thing over and over. However there are times that it has gotten to the point of him being so fed up with people trolling specifically to get a rise out of him that he can't help himself.

He understands the frustration of the update not being out yet. Trust me he is just as frustrated as we all are. Cut him some slack these things take time. Honestly it's better to be frustrated waiting for the update then after it launches because it was rushed and not on par with previous releases. It's taking this long because he respects the project and wants to do justice to what Saruh originally created. Let him do it right and I'm sure the update will prove worth the wait.