VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [Dr PinkCake]

4.80 star(s) 1,526 Votes
Discussion Reviews (1,526)
lemonfreak

lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
5,397
10,076
Warped77 said:
I think what you've pointed out illustrates why the 'release a game a little bit at a time through Patreon' model just doesn't work with truly branching stories.

Skyrim maybe isn't the best example for my explanation, but let's go with it. With a 'released when it was finished' game like Skyrim, the developers could take the time to put everything in the game and have it all ready for the player when they began playing. No matter what choice you make or path you take in the game, that content is finished and waiting for you.

With a game that's put out in pieces like BaDik (or 99% of other games on this site), the creators are faced with two choices if they want truly diverging paths based on actual choices... either they have absolutely massive updates that take a very long time to release (that get bigger and bigger and bigger as more of that divergent content appears in the game) or they release content patches that do not have content for all choices and paths (thus locking a chunk of players out of that content). Basically, imagine if the Derek-Sage-Bella choices in Chapter 4 were released as separate content updates in that order... if you had chosen Bella, you couldn't play the first two updates and you'd just have to wait while others played the new content. Either way, you end up with a bunch of very, very unhappy Patrons and players.

So, the only real option is, as others have mentioned, the illusion of choice... either by having all roads lead to the same 'big' moments and eventual ending (as BaDIK will almost certainly continue to do), or as was the case with AL, simply swapping which characters appear in the same scene based on which choices were made (meaning the hospital, locked room, and funeral scenes all happened basically the same way but who was with you in those scenes changed).

Again, I don't think this is the fault of DPC (especially since, as others have mentioned, he's just one guy doing all this stuff himself)... it's just the cold facts of the release model of Patreon games.
Click to expand...
It's my own fault for not being clearer, I should have explained that my invocation of Skyrim was strictly limited to the blank slate MC and that no further implications should be inferred (should've learned for the whole Cercei thing I did a while back :()

I personally have a problem with the whole illusion of choice thing because that seems to imply that, if the MC doesn't have a huge amount of control over events, they're essentially on rails. I disagree with this as I believe that controlling the MC's perception (and by extention, the perception of NPCs) is equally valid in most cases and, in the case of a visual novel, superior.
Holy Bacchus said:
It honestly feels like a retcon because we all know from the ep 4 rejection that they were sucking face when he left but then in the brief ep 5 "flashback" when he and Josy are talking, they're now not making out behind his back. Like, why do that when we know that's not what happened? It's an inconsistency likely intended to placate those that were pissed off by that kiss (which was just about everyone), but without actually changing what happened in ep 4, it still doesn't make it any better.
Click to expand...
Due to my well established laziness I'm not going to go back and confirm the context of those images but it seems entirely reasonable that, in the first case, we, the players were seeing what actually happened whereas, in the second case, we were seeing what the MC knew to have happened which, since his back was turned, is less than we knew.

I eagerly await the screenshots that show I'm wrong ;) :LOL:
 
Holy Bacchus

Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
7,748
19,529
Maviarab said:
Surely if iot was to placate or retcon as such...he'd just replace the render with the flashback renders. Would take him literally like 15 seconds.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he should and he should also patch the Steam version with it too. The fact that they did that does make it feel like they heard all the complaints and showed a different version of that event so as to not show that controversial moment again. Unless this was right before the kiss, but that doesn't seem to work either because the distance the MC is from them in the ep 5 render is the same as in the ep 4 render, so it certainly has the feel of a retcon.
 
ename144

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,196
13,329
Holy Bacchus said:
It honestly feels like a retcon because we all know from the ep 4 rejection that they were sucking face when he left but then in the brief ep 5 "flashback" when he and Josy are talking, they're now not making out behind his back. Like, why do that when we know that's not what happened? It's an inconsistency likely intended to placate those that were pissed off by that kiss (which was just about everyone), but without actually changing what happened in ep 4, it still doesn't make it any better.
Click to expand...
I'm not disagreeing it changes the context of the original scene. I'm just saying it's possible DPC always intended to make it seem like the three had moved on in that moment only to later reveal that there were still a lot of lingering feelings. It's the sort of thing I could see him doing intentionally, even if I don't think it's likely in this case.

Either way, it's clear he decided to emphasize the change in Episode 5. That implies that either the change is indeed a retcon, or that the original scene was being widely misinterpreted and the future revelations needed to happen ASAP.
 
Holy Bacchus

Holy Bacchus

Conversation Conqueror
Dec 13, 2018
7,748
19,529
lemonfreak said:
Due to my well established laziness I'm not going to go back and confirm the context of those images but it seems entirely reasonable that, in the first case, we, the players were seeing what actually happened whereas, in the second case, we were seeing what the MC knew to have happened which, since his back was turned, is less than we knew.

I eagerly await the screenshots that show I'm wrong ;) :LOL:
Click to expand...
So you're saying that we saw in ep 4 was what he thought was happening behind him? :WaitWhat: That's even worse because it would means he thinks very little of them if he assumed they'd just start making out after they dumped him or he dumped them.
 
lemonfreak

lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
5,397
10,076
Holy Bacchus said:
So you're saying that we saw in ep 4 was what he thought was happening behind him? :WaitWhat: That's even worse because it would means he thinks very little of them if he assumed they'd just start making out after they dumped him or he dumped them.
Click to expand...
That's exactly the opposite of what I said :p
Maviarab said:
That's the point. We are largely on rails..not a lot you can do about that.
Click to expand...
Again, depends on you're defining on rails. Those of us who've used scrappy's mod (which I only use of second playthroughs for the record) know that there are times in which the MC's Affinity/Status affect the interactions with the LIs, meaning that on a Chick playthrough an answer might be neutral whereas, on a Dik playthrough the exact same answer would result in RP-1
 
Warped77

Warped77

Member
Jul 13, 2020
355
689
Holy Bacchus said:
So you're saying that we saw in ep 4 was what he thought was happening behind him? :WaitWhat: That's even worse because it would means he thinks very little of them if he assumed they'd just start making out after they dumped him or he dumped them.
Click to expand...
Couldn't it be that the MC turned around and started walking away, Maya and Josy kissed briefly, and then then turned and followed him... meaning both scenes happened (the original and then the 'flashback version')? It may be a stretch, but we're only seeing a series of still scenes much like panels in a comic, not a continuous movie of what happens, so the flashback version could have happened between the original 'panels'. It'd still be a bit of a retcon in that regard, but not a plot hole or contradiction, per se.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Real Kreten
lemonfreak

lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
5,397
10,076
  • Like
Reactions: Warped77
Warped77

Warped77

Member
Jul 13, 2020
355
689
RonWeasleyJr said:
Wouldn't be NTR, as NTR involves mind breaking, drugging, and corruption.

Not even cuckolding, as MC and Sage aren't "officially" dating, let alone exclusive.
Click to expand...
NTR doesn't have to involve any of those things. For example, in one other popular game there's an 'NTR' tag because if you ignore the MC's girlfriend for too long, she goes off and fucks another guy.
  • Ntr [Designed to cause jealousy by having the romantic interest involved with someone other than the MC.]
Corruption is its own separate tag.
  • Corruption [Corrupting someone's mind robbing them of their purity/innocence.]
Both are very often combined, but they are not dependant on each other.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CynicalBstrd, Tserriednich'sNen and lemonfreak
ChipLecsap

ChipLecsap

Conversation Conqueror
Aug 4, 2019
6,036
22,800
Maviarab said:
Correct., and given the few Rp flag checks, one or two isn't going to make any difference. But I said before, sure, who you are with might change....but you will still end up at the same place at the same time as everyone else. Fight with Jocks for example, date with Jill for example, fixing the diks frat house for example. Any changes are just minor fluff variance regardless of who you like, fucked or whether you're dik or chick.
Click to expand...
Yes and No. The same way you could end up with either Derek, or Sage or Bella at end of ep 3, The same way your endgame could be, and most likely will be different based on your play style. and Remember, only Derek available on each playstyle. for Sage, and Bella, you have to play the way it needed to open those options. I for example, when I realized I don't care about Bella, I played in a way where I dont give a shit about her, and She is locked for me, not only that some other conversation and events are locked with her.

our choices do Matter and have consequences, - even if some of them are limited, it is not sandbox nor an RPG - The whole conversation was about that WE Don't want to lose the possibility of having choices, but along the line we twisted it into something else :LOL:
 
felicemastronzo

felicemastronzo

Devoted Member
May 17, 2020
11,096
21,712
Wizard_Shiryuu said:
I don't know. I find it rude that two people who theoretically like/love you, but decided to reject you are making up in front of you just after dumping you, but not particularly NTR-ish.
Click to expand...
it didn't seem particularly NTR-ish to me either, but this expanded definition still leaves me in doubt

surely it is rude. but it's just a didactic way to put a point in the story: Maya and Josy have forgiven each other (already seen in the dormitory after MC ran away ...), the "we are a band of cheaters" leads to this

the second version seems even less realistic to me with the three pretending nothing and returning home, MC has been rejected, it's right that he gets out of the way to lick his wounds, even following him would be rude
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
4.80 star(s) 1,526 Votes