VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

The disclaimer could also simply be there because DPC knows his audience. IE...adult VN players that while they moan and whine they want realism...in reality they actually don't. Shit happens, people leave you, you can't always save a relationship. But if that was to happen....the player base would go ape all over his ass because as I said, everyone wants a happy ending where the LI worships the MC and nothing bad ever happens which really, is as far from the truth and reality of life as it could possibly get.

Which to a point is fair enough, most of us I would guess play these (like any other game) for an escape from reality but you can't want one thing then complain when it's given to you. I didn't like AL as I just didn't think it was very good all round, the twist at the end was a very meh moment to me and I didn't even think twice over who to save. If that happens here, or an LI we're persuing (say Sage for example) decides she is no longer interested in us, then so be it. That's realism and good writing.

I think that prologue is purely marketing, after all during it DPC presents himself as a "serious" writer, it's a commercial.

but after such a message to expect drama, indeed all possible drama, I think it is normal.

I talked about death because at the end of AL there remains the one in the eyes, the dilemma of who to let die, which for me from a dramatic point of view is a great moment, but to which too much importance is given (always speaking from the perspective of a game, if it were reality it would change everything)

but I don't agree with your realism discourse, that a girl you like leaves you is realism, that a girl that the game presents as your LI, MUST leave you is cheat, it's a half scam, because the player doesn't choose she is presented to him in that role, and if you make me play a game that I have to lose, you're cheating me. wanting this reasoning can also be done for AL, where I am presented with the possibility of the mini harem, only to slip it out from under my nose, but it is less direct.

I have no problem with the drama, it suits me perfectly that the path to get to each LI is particularly complicated and full of suffering, but as a player I expect it to be possible.

p.s. I've already said: for me the problem with AL is the excessive addition of drama, for an ending that didn't need it (violent family, blackmail, corrupt police, your best friend with cancer ... need the serial killer)

If Sage were to die, that would be "dark", but if she just continues to drag her feet with the Chad situation, then that's just frustrating. If the MC were to fail at every attempt, then that would mean the player has no agency of that relationship which is an entirely different matter altogether, and not one that it is likely to happen.

The difference between what is "dark" and what is "heavy" is simply that a heavy storyline is one laced with raw emotions and possibly tragedy, whereas a dark storyline is one that involves more visceral themes like rape, murder, kidnapping, accidental death, etc. In this regard, the death of a character is the worst thing that can happen because of the finality of it, and even moreso if it's unpreventable like in AL.



Yeah, but these games are meant to be better than life. There's enough bad shit that happens in the real world and the joy of these games is that they take you away from that for a short while to enjoy a better world. We don't really need reminders of the fragility of life in a game where we're trying to enjoy a better sex life that most us could ever hope to have in the real world.

dying is a very normal thing, it doesn't have to be "dark".

I honestly don't understand the difference between letting an LI die, for example in a car accident, very realistic, and instead making her disappear from the game for another reason, another example Bella who moves to another city to join her husband.

they are both final turns, narratively they are identical.

as a player the second is much more frustrating, at least for me, because in any case it gives you the idea of having made a mistake, of a sense of guilt, while the first is fate, destiny.

of course I'm only talking in the event that there are inevitable turns that are part of the plot

 

[Warped77]

I think that prologue is purely marketing, after all during it DPC presents himself as a "serious" writer, it's a commercial.

I don't know if I'd go THAT far, but I could certainly see the disclaimer as DPC being overly cautious knowing how fragile some of his players seem to be. People have ridiculous meltdowns over the tiniest of things, so it could just be him covering his ass. I doubt it... but it's possible.

That said, there's plenty of foreshadowing in the game that 'heavy' things are on their way to make the MC's life difficult before he eventually rides off into the sunset with one or more of the girls. It would be extremely lame (and boring!) if everything is sunny and happy from here on out.

 

[Rimmer]

I don't think anyone would have had much of a problem with AL, if it had had the required tags and been more obvious the path it was going down, unfortunately it didn't and folks were annoyed, so that's why he had to state what to expect from this game.

 

[felicemastronzo]

I don't know if I'd go THAT far, but I could certainly see the disclaimer as DPC being overly cautious knowing how fragile some of his players seem to be. People have ridiculous meltdowns over the tiniest of things, so it could just be him covering his ass. I doubt it... but it's possible.

That said, there's plenty of foreshadowing in the game that 'heavy' things are on their way to make the MC's life difficult before he eventually rides off into the sunset with one or more of the girls. It would be extremely lame (and boring!) if everything is sunny and happy from here on out.

there is nothing wrong with advertising yourself and your work ...

as a warning it doesn't seem to be taken that seriously. what good would it do? anyone who has to complain will complain anyway, we are on the internet ...

 

[Anthony11553]

I don't know if I'd go THAT far, but I could certainly see the disclaimer as DPC being overly cautious knowing how fragile some of his players seem to be. People have ridiculous meltdowns over the tiniest of things, so it could just be him covering his ass. I doubt it... but it's possible.

That said, there's plenty of foreshadowing in the game that 'heavy' things are on their way to make the MC's life difficult before he eventually rides off into the sunset with one or more of the girls. It would be extremely lame (and boring!) if everything is sunny and happy from here on out.

I mean it's college i'm fine with a few things going wrong but if it's something that;'s as dramatic as AL that will kill the game for me

 

[Traitus]

For everyone who didn't see it:
View attachment 837645

Thanks.
I love your nick and avatar.

 

[Roelandt]

A tragic storyline isn't necessarily a dark one.

Exactly.

I find people often misuse the term "dark" not understanding what it means. I think its because gaming and movies have blurred it so much that some people eventually fail to see the distinction. Hamlet...the one where pretty much everyone dies at the end, is a tragedy. It's not dark...unless a director adds "dark" elements to the telling of the story. The only "dark" version of Hamlet I've scene is a Dutch version (which was pretty terrible anyway).

Again...the best immediate and relevant example that I can think of demonstrating dark and what it is: Play the extremely excellent City of Broken Dreamers (my second favorite game in this format next to BADI). For movies, see Blade Runner.

 

[Maviarab]

Exactly.

I find people often misuse the term "dark" not understanding what it means. I think its because gaming and movies have blurred it so much that some people eventually fail to see the distinction. Hamlet...the one where pretty much everyone dies at the end, is a tragedy. It's not dark...unless a director adds "dark" elements to the telling of the story. The only "dark" version of Hamlet I've scene is a Dutch version (which was pretty terrible anyway).

Again...the best immediate and relevant example that I can think of demonstrating dark and what it is: Play the extremely excellent City of Broken Dreamers (my second favorite game in this format next to BADI). For movies, see Blade Runner.

But that's where it's subjective. What is dark about Blade runner..at all? Curious how you see what I do not think is there.

 

[Roelandt]

We don't just think Bella is going to be the one with the 'dark' storyline... because of the line in the library, we know it's her (or that she's at least one of the characters with a dark, heavy, or tragic storyline). Again, that doesn't have to mean a death, or that anything bad will happen to her. It could be a tragic event in her past, a mental illness of some sort, some dark secret she's hiding, etc. None of that would prevent a happy ending down the road.

I think (more accurately, I hope) her storyline will offer the choice of a happy or tragic ending. Note I did not say Dark.

Though it is possible that Doc might choose to take her on a dark course within the otherwise comedy college drama since he has done so in his previous release HARDCORE, and was rather vocal about defending it.

I doubt it though...and certainly hope not. What happened AL did not go over well for the majority players, and I think Doc realizes that adding such elements to such a fun-focused story as BADIK will go over like a ton of bricks. Speaking for myself, that would lose me.

We shall see. I would LIKE to see Bella's story turn tragic (not dark, tragic). I like stories that provoke an emotional response; especially if there is a way to "do things just so" that it can be "overcome" to a positive outcome. That would be awesome in fact. Fingers crossed.

 

[lemonfreak]

To me, for a film, show, game or book to be dark it has to revel in that darkness. Se7en (1995), To Die For (1995) and Election (1999) are dark whereas Still Alice (2014), My Sister's Keeper (2009) and Schindler's List (1993) are heavy.

 

[Warped77]

But that's where it's subjective. What is dark about Blade runner..at all? Curious how you see what I do not think is there.

Yep.

This whole conversation about 'dark' vs 'tragic' vs 'heavy' vs 'snozberries' or whatever is suuuuuper subjective and kinda silly anyway. Everyone seems to be stating their opinions on what defines each as though they were fact. I'd love to see a credible source given that defines any real difference between them. Otherwise, I see no reason not to use them interchangeably.

Again, I'd go back to Jojo Rabbit. For anyone who hasn't seen it, I'm definitely NOT going to spoil it (...and no one else should either, dammit, or you're the worst kind of asshole, really), but for those who have... Would you try to claim that the 'red shoes' scene invalidates the film as a comedy? Is that scene dark? tragic? heavy? I'd sure as shit say it's 'all of the above'.

 

[Roelandt]

But that's where it's subjective. What is dark about Blade runner..at all? Curious how you see what I do not think is there.

My understanding is actually as these terms are defined. I've been an writer, play-write, director, and actor (I'm a sucky actor) for a few decades so all this we're talking about is my bread and butter. I love it.

Google it. I don't want to write an article here and bore myself and everyone. I'm already enough of a blabbermouth. Hehe. The information is there if you take the time to check it out. You can discover the distinction of dark, tragedy, comedy, crime, slapstick, drama, western, sci-fi, romance, etc. Then you can see what makes slapstick sci-fi's; romantic tragedies; comedy westerns. What's a plot and a storyline? What are themes and tones? It's all out there.

Do it. It's kinda interesting (if writing or critical analysis interests you that is).

 

[lemonfreak]

My understanding is actually as these terms are defined. I've been an writer, play-write, director, and actor (I'm a sucky actor) for a few decades so all this we're talking about is my bread and butter. I love it.

Google it. I don't want to write an article here and bore myself and everyone. I'm already enough of a blabbermouth. Hehe. The information is there if you take the time to check it out. You can discover the distinction of dark, tragedy, comedy, crime, slapstick, drama, western, sci-fi, romance, etc. Then you can see what makes slapstick sci-fi's; romantic tragedies; comedy westerns. What's a plot and a storyline? What are themes and tones? It's all out there.

Do it. It's kinda interesting (if writing or critical analysis interests you that is).

This is the internet, why would I take advantage of this repository of all human knowledge when I could state my ill-informed opinions as fact?

 

[Debaser Pixie]

Holy Shit.

Took a break from this a few seasons back to let the story progress, came back and started playing the game acting as I would in real life. The story writing and superb logic tree's made it possible, and since I am a bit of a dick in real life, I ended up on the moderate DIK route. Messed around a little but turned down sex with everyone but Josy and Maya, first because I liked both of their character writings the best (reminded me of friends), and then increasingly I saw an opportunity for a little harem. Can't choose between two beautiful, awesome chicks? Split the difference with chicks who would realistically function as sister-wives? Yes please! Polygamy here I come!......

Then I actually felt honest to God feelings when, much to my horror, I discovered that not only can you not have them both as a DIK, you can't have either of them. I'm a grown ass man, I don't get emotionally affected by fucking games. Yet here I sit, feeling offended and slightly betrayed, and yes even sad that I lost both of them. This speaks more to the talents of PinkCakes writing then anything I could say otherwise. This isn't some goofball male fantasy scenario, the characters display a complexity and depth that transcends typically simple, ham-handed and juvenile writing that you normally expect.

Dr. PinkCake, you actually managed to give me feels. I salute you for it, you cruel and magnificent bastard. If you need me I will be drowning my sorrow in a bottle. Fucker.

 

[Roelandt]

Thinking outloud....

Leaks about her genetic link to the main character.

Nothing wrong about thinking out loud.

But...what leaks are you referring to? There are no leaks on that subject. Just unsubstantiated wild theories on the Forum for people who want incest in their games.

 

[Roelandt]

This is the internet, why would I take advantage of this repository of all human knowledge when I could state my ill-informed opinions as fact?

Hahaha!

Lemonfreak...you're just awesome, dude.

 

[lemonfreak]

Holy Shit.

Took a break from this a few seasons back to let the story progress, came back and started playing the game acting as I would in real life. The story writing and superb logic tree's made it possible, and since I am a bit of a dick in real life, I ended up on the moderate DIK route. Messed around a little but turned down sex with everyone but Josy and Maya, first because I liked both of their character writings the best (reminded me of friends), and then increasingly I saw an opportunity for a little harem. Can't choose between two beautiful, awesome chicks? Split the difference with chicks who would realistically function as sister-wives? Yes please! Polygamy here I come!......

Then I actually felt honest to God feelings when, much to my horror, I discovered that not only can you not have them both as a DIK, you can't have either of them. I'm a grown ass man, I don't get emotionally affected by fucking games. Yet here I sit, feeling offended and slightly betrayed, and yes even sad that I lost both of them. This speaks more to the talents of PinkCakes writing then anything I could say otherwise. This isn't some goofball male fantasy scenario, the characters display a complexity and depth that transcends typically simple, ham-handed and juvenile writing that you normally expect.

Dr. PinkCake, you actually managed to give me feels. I salute you for it, you cruel and magnificent bastard. If you need me I will be drowning my sorrow in a bottle. Fucker.

I think it's more accurate to say you can't have either of them yet. You can indicate interest in one of them afterwards and, since I suspect Josy prefers more of a Dik than a Chick, she may very well be a potential LI for your MC (Maya seems so Chick focused that you'll probably not succeed with her)

 

[Warped77]

My understanding is actually as these terms are defined. I've been an writer, play-write, director, and actor (I'm a sucky actor) for a few decades so all this we're talking about is my bread and butter. I love it.

Google it. I don't want to write an article here and bore myself and everyone. I'm already enough of a blabbermouth. Hehe. The information is there if you take the time to check it out. You can discover the distinction of dark, tragedy, comedy, crime, slapstick, drama, western, sci-fi, romance, etc. Then you can see what makes slapstick sci-fi's; romantic tragedies; comedy westerns. What's a plot and a storyline? What are themes and tones? It's all out there.

Do it. It's kinda interesting (if writing or critical analysis interests you that is).

Taking your advice... Google 'dark vs. heavy in film' or some equivalent. No good information comes up, and what does is just more opinion. For instance, is something like Cabin in the woods actually a 'dark comedy' or not (I'd call it a horror comedy with some dark humor... but hey... opinion again!)? No one can seem agree.

Sure, the definition of Tragedy vs Comedy is very well known by most, even as it has evolved from the old 'sad ending' vs 'happy ending' of Shakespeare's days... but I don't think 'dark' or 'heavy' (the terms that keep getting thrown around here) are as well-defined as you're implying.

 

[Warped77]

Nothing wrong about thinking out loud.

But...what leaks are you referring to? There are no leaks on that subject. Just unsubstantiated wild theories on the Forum for people who want incest in their games.

You're dead on. Plus, we know it won't ever be more than wild theories as DPC has firmly stated he's not a fan of including incest as a kink in his games...

 

[Roelandt]

Go through all the doors. Talk with Riona for a kiss. After talking with Rusty you will see Tommy talking with Quinn. Talk to him. You will have one of the best scenes in the game awaiting. I am not gonna spoil it.

Or one of the worst you avoid or skip through depending on you.