VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[Tserriednich'sNen]

Theft: They did steal their suits. Derek even kept some of his. It's entirely possible those things were expensive.

MC returned the suit that he borrowed so "Theft" only applies to Derek.

 

[Gladheim]

S = Maya, Camila, Bella, Mona, Heather
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A = Jill, Jade, Riona, Sage, Quinn, Rose, Nicole, Ashley
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B = Brandi, Cathy, Sandy, Melanie
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C = Sally, Sarah, Riona, Elena
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You also missed a couple on that tiermaker:
Josy - View attachment 950812 View attachment 950860
Lily - View attachment 950813 View attachment 950861

Thats cause it doesnt show much

 

[horusxcaen82]

MC returned the suit that he borrowed so "Theft" only applies to Derek.

Derek stole Tybbies family heirloom and no I dont mean the watermelon.

 

[DavDR]

Off the top of my head (and ignoring optional ones like assault and battery or their earlier actions).

Burglary: The MC and Derek unlawfully entered the mansion with intent to commit a crime (arson, theft, vandalism, take your pick).

Arson: They didn't actually do this one, but Tybalt only needs to convince people they were trying to. Derek was asking for a lighter, after all.

Theft: They did steal their suits. Derek even kept some of his. It's entirely possible those things were expensive.

Vandalism: The big one. They actually did this and the problem is that the cost of the repairs is going to be through the roof. That makes it easier to claim it's a felony.

Again, Tybalt only needs enough evidence that a jury is needed to sort it out. I think that's a plausible bar in this case. The MC and Derek are not exactly the Moriarty of college crime.

Evidence. Where is the evidence? And I don't mean a statement from someone that so and so was seen at such and such a place and that a crime occurred. That's not worth the paper it's printed on. Any lawyer in the world could knock that one down, assuming that any Judge would hear it. The Police wouldn't even start an investigation, it doesn't meet the standards of probable cause.

You're getting way ahead of yourself because there's nothing here that a jury would even be empanelled to listen to, much less convinced of.

As I said earlier one of the most important of the lawyerly arts is the throwing of cold water upon the hyperventilating client. And that's exactly what would happen here because neither the Police, nor the Courts, nor the Family Lawyers are going to waste their time over a Fraternity prank. The insurance company will take one look at it, decide it would cost too much to investigate it and would promptly pay the settlement (well, prompt by insurance company standards).

 

[DavDR]

Off the top of my head (and ignoring optional ones like assault and battery or their earlier actions).

Burglary: The MC and Derek unlawfully entered the mansion with intent to commit a crime (arson, theft, vandalism, take your pick).

Arson: They didn't actually do this one, but Tybalt only needs to convince people they were trying to. Derek was asking for a lighter, after all.

Theft: They did steal their suits. Derek even kept some of his. It's entirely possible those things were expensive.

Vandalism: The big one. They actually did this and the problem is that the cost of the repairs is going to be through the roof. That makes it easier to claim it's a felony.

Again, Tybalt only needs enough evidence that a jury is needed to sort it out. I think that's a plausible bar in this case. The MC and Derek are not exactly the Moriarty of college crime.

Oh BTW, juries don't 'sort things out' in the US. They render verdicts upon evidence presented.

 

[Kellermann]

Here's what I want from the finale...an ambiguous yet happy end. An unimaginative example? After the story's falling action and resolution a time jump skips us ahead to just after graduation. MC carries his last couple of boxes out to his car. He takes one last look at the B&R building. Perhaps in the same spot that Neil dropped him off years earlier. He turns to walk towards his car and there, leaning against his vehicle, is chosen girl with a slight smile on her face. We don't really know if they're together or just friends, but their future is wide open. Cue some amazing song then credits.

I don't need marriage and "happily ever after" spelled out, just don't make it a total downer. Don't kill off the girls just because you want to kick me in the balls and because you think death equals dramatic writing. Maybe Quinn...IF it fits the story but that's it muthafucka. I'm drawing the line there.

 

[DavDR]

Derek stole Tybbies family heirloom and no I dont mean the watermelon.

Prove that it was Tybalt's.

Then prove that the specific Stag's head that Derek is in possession of is or was ever the property of Tybalt Burke.

Then try to convince a cop to establish that said Stag's Head is or was ever Tybat Burke's and is currently possessed by Derek LastNameUnknown.

Then try to convince a Judge to sign a search warrant (to search a house owned by the prominent Burgmeister family) to establish in law that said Derek is in possession of a Stag's Head that was once the property of Tybalt Burke.

Then convince a prosecutor to examine the evidence compiled by an overworked Cop, evidence procured without any errors, to determine if a case can be made against said Derek.

See what you're up against here?

 

[Gladheim]

I think it would be good that depending on who the MC stays with , the endings change and are not just variations in the scene. For example, there is a game called No More Secrets in which you have multiple endings and with notable differences, for example in some endings time barely advances a few months and we see how life continues, in others time advances a couple of years And we watch the MC as an adult and in another we even see him as an old man. I am not saying that it is necessary for them to show us here the old MC with his wife and children and grandchildren happy, but it would be nice if with some character we saw him marry and have children, with another by leading a more adventurous life because they do not have children and they dedicate to traveling around the world ... and that kind of thing.

 

[horusxcaen82]

Prove that it was Tybalt's.

Then prove that the specific Stag's head that Derek is in possession of is or was ever the property of Tybalt Burke.

Then try to convince a cop to establish that said Stag's Head is or was ever Tybat Burke's and is currently possessed by Derek LastNameUnknown.

Then try to convince a Judge to sign a search warrant (to search a house owned by the prominent Burgmeister family) to establish in law that said Derek is in possession of a Stag's Head that was once the property of Tybalt Burke.

Then convince a prosecutor to examine the evidence compiled by an overworked Cop, evidence procured without any errors, to determine if a case can be made against said Derek.

See what you're up against here?

why does it have to be hyper realistic ? I mean yeah I get what you are saying but I don't think it needs to go that far, if anything "for plot convenience" they will charge the MC and Derek, cause Derek did start the sprinklers they spend a night in jail, they get out and move on, with that done it could negatively or not negatively impact the story and it would probably be a minor thing anyhow.

 

[horusxcaen82]

I think it would be good that depending on who the MC stays with , the endings change and are not just variations in the scene. For example, there is a game called No More Secrets in which you have multiple endings and with notable differences, for example in some endings time barely advances a few months and we see how life continues, in others time advances a couple of years And we watch the MC as an adult and in another we even see him as an old man. I am not saying that it is necessary for them to show us here the old MC with his wife and children and grandchildren happy, but it would be nice if with some character we saw him marry and have children, with another by leading a more adventurous life because they do not have children and they dedicate to traveling around the world ... and that kind of thing.

I want to see something similar, even if DPC doesnt go that far, atleast let me see at the end if we did all the paths right someone, I keep wondering about his first friend with benefits that moved away, if she comes back it would be funny if she did and caused friction between her and Maya/Josy like "HERE COMES A NEW CHALLENGER"

 

[SomboSteel]

I GOT IT! something I want to see in the game is that Jill goes from Jill to wow Jill, kinda like in Grease when Sandy goes from pure sweet girl to Sandy the leather tight wearing vixen after being involved with the cool cat that is the MC

have you ever read the theory that Sandy dies in Grease?

the entire ending can be seen as her metaphorically going to heaven since she gets everything that she ever wanted even though none of it makes any sense.

so i dont think people would like you comparing Sandy to Jill, knowing how DPC operates lol

 

[horusxcaen82]

have you ever read the theory that Sandy dies in Grease?

the entire ending can be seen as her metaphorically going to heaven since she gets everything that she ever wanted even though none of it makes any sense.

so i dont think people would like you comparing Sandy to Jill, knowing how DPC operates lol

nah she didn't go to heaven, Travolta just took her to the planet Xenu.

 

[SomboSteel]

^hahaah

 

[DavDR]

why does it have to be hyper realistic ? I mean yeah I get what you are saying but I don't think it needs to go that far, if anything "for plot convenience" they will charge the MC and Derek, cause Derek did start the sprinklers they spend a night in jail, they get out and move on, with that done it could negatively or not negatively impact the story and it would probably be a minor thing anyhow.

No, we've covered this before. Tybalt's blackmail threat, like Maya's tuition problems, needs to be credible to convince the audience that it is an actual threat. You could write a story where Maya was terrified because her Father had threaten to send Angels to cast her into Hell for her sinfull ways, or that Tybalt was threatening to send Nargles to steal Jill's shoes, but you would have to convince your audience that the angels or the nargles constituted a credible threat to those characters or it would just be so much silly drivel.

 

[horusxcaen82]

^hahaah

I thought the ending meant more like "change who you are to please the one you love because you know, acceptance and all that"

 

[horusxcaen82]

No, we've covered this before. Tybalt's blackmail threat, like Maya's tuition problems, needs to be credible to convince the audience that it is an actual threat. You could write a story where Maya was terrified because her Father had threaten to send Angels to cast her into Hell for her sinfull ways, or that Tybalt was threatening to send Nargles to steal Jill's shoes, but you would have to convince your audience that the angels or the nargles constituted a credible threat to those characters or it would just be so much silly drivel.

what about (and this was the first thing I thought when her dad was coming to get her) he takes her to one of those conversion therapy camps to pray the gay away... as they say? didn't mean for that to rhyme , but anyways that was what came to my head as like something drastic but something a religious zealot father would do to make her "clean" again.

 

[DavDR]

what about (and this was the first thing I thought when her dad was coming to get her) he takes her to one of those conversion therapy camps to pray the gay away... as they say? didn't mean for that to rhyme , but anyways that was what came to my head as like something drastic but something a religious zealot father would do to make her "clean" again.

How does he take her? Does he physically carry her away? That's a crime in progress, simple 911 call and Dad's in jail for kidnapping, which is a Federal offense that can be punished with a sentence of life in prison. Does that sound credible?

You see the reason that some of us on this forum have been so critical of these plot points is that they come off as something that DPC pulled straight out of his ass. There was a good story here at one point, but crafting a good story require's a certain amount of probability that a reasonable person can believe, and this story has gone way past that believability standard.

 

[horusxcaen82]

How does he take her? Does he physically carry her away? That's a crime in progress, simple 911 call and Dad's in jail for kidnapping, which is a Federal offense that can be punished with a sentence of life in prison. Does that sound credible?

You see the reason that some of us on this forum have been so critical of these plot points is that they come off as something that DPC pulled straight out of his ass. There was a good story here at one point, but crafting a good story require's a certain amount of probability that a reasonable person can believe, and this story has gone way past that believability standard.

thats a vaild opinion I suppose, I am just enjoying it for what it is, which is fine too , I have to get going though I've got a long trip ahead of me tomorrow and I need mah sleepz

 

[SomboSteel]

I thought the ending meant more like "change who you are to please the one you love because you know, acceptance and all that"

its just a theory, another way to look at the ending. you can just take it at face value and accept that its a happy ever after like a fairy tale. but if you look at it literally, it obviously doesnt make sense that they fly away in the car at the end, and up until that the movie had been fairly grounded in reality.

Sandy is supposed to leave for Australia at the end, but stays and becomes the perfect greaser girl for Danny. but the theory i read speculates that Sandy leaves (and say the plane crashes or whatever and she dies) and the entire ending sequence is her getting the paradise she always wanted. She lives happily ever after with her true love, the song they all sing at the end talks about how "they'll always be together" (nobody stays friends with all their highschool friends for the rest of their lives, maybe a select few but most you never see again and it doesnt even bother you), and they literally ascend into the heavens to be happy forever. the whole ending is basically a highschool dream come true, and not something that could or should happen in reality.

like the movie obviously makes no literal sense at the ending sequence, so trying to understand what it could mean metaphorically i thought was interesting. thats the only reason i remember the theory at all lol

 

[Wizard_Shiryuu]

Ok Wiz,
I will just put a couple out there if that is ok, but if you like we can discuss more.
Let me reiterate I am a former Patreon supporter and I bought the game on steam when I got critical on DPC about his story and he banned me from his Patreon (still wanted my money though, but anyone would have done that)

Ok-
Things that make no sense-
M&J- pretty much that whole deal with them. Either friend or thruple. The early hyper over reaction of the MC who is fucking everything that walks but gets so upset he ghosts the girls when Josy shows up.. no good rationale for that. They "lied" oh whatever. Josy said she was cheating and he cheated with her and on her... that whole mess made no sense.

Now the reconciliation scene in the library- if they say yes, you magically can't make your meet with Jade? And you are blocked from her forever. Cathy too for that matter. No sense whatsoever.

The Milfy ladies in the bar, why would anything else matter when you are there? No good explanation.

Jill Blackmailed by Tybalt- they have no photo evidence of the MC doing anything to wreck that party (now if you are stupid enough to hit him back after his girly slap I could see him threatening police action, but you have witnesses that will testify he hit you first)

So exactly what or why would Jill worry about with Tybalt threatening the MC? There is no evidence of him doing anything wrong. Derek actually did the deed and all he did was set off the fire alarm system. His Dad apparently has somehow stolen Maya's college loan money and I am sure he can get his boy out of trouble with those ill gotten (stupidly I might add) gains.

Sage who is so paranoid she is spying on Chad, and observant enough to notice a number of those things, has some kind of blindness that she has a prostitution and drug cartel operating out of the next room in the sorority house!?!?! She is portrayed as being a much deeper thinker than our initial impression, and observant and has good taste to fuck anyone other than Chad, so how is she missing all that? The HOT Code? Bullshit. She is smarter than that. All she has to do is just listen.

Stephen Burke somehow is in charge of the scholarship program?? He is basically probably running the Cartel and our resident bad girl Quinn, who plans her moves like a chess game is just a patsy???? I don't think so...Not only that, it is a sure thing Riona is somehow going to go down with the ship as this all crashes down...

Bella- the scene waaaaaaay back in the beginning when our boy is kissing her in the library breaks to black with his, I would have called out for help bullshit.... yeah he isn't hinting that she is not going to go Leah level psycho on him... not at all....

Basically if you actually try and put together a Vin Diagram of the plot, to track it, you end up with such a mess. We are shut out of so many things just because of our "affinity" of DIK or CHIK. We are shut out of possibilities with our MILFY teachers if we choose to have an open relationship with our thruple..... We have Jill who is certainly smart, and Quinn also smart, and Sage also smart all being made out to be stooges....

It really is a matter of the way DPC is telling, or trying to tell his story. Sure, it is his right to tell it his way, but it is our right, to express our concerns and or thoughts on this.

As I have said- I am a major fan of his renders. He does some of the best in the business. His wingmen have heart. Maybe only Chris from Leap of Faith is at the same level as his wingmen. The Hellweek was pretty fun stuff, but even that had some issues. I guess that I don't make it clear enough that I like parts of what he does, I just wish he was a better writer and could actually make his plots make sense. Instead of keeping it manageable, he keeps introducing more complications to his work, and I do think he is quickly going to ratchet down the girl choices even more in very short order, unless he fluffs another episode or 4 to stretch it all out.

A lot of all of the above has been rehashed a dozen times throughout this forum's discussions. I am more than willing to be labeled as an asshole for being critical of someone who deserves it, and I accept that all his fans may not like what I say, but I will still say it, as long as he writes the crappy way he is.
Peace

I've read it a bit before starting writing and most of these could be classified as poor writing at best. A plot hole is a contradiction, and as far as I've read before writing (I'll read it fully as I write) I haven't seen any.

Yeah, DPC doesn't look like he handles criticism very well.

Most of us agree that the MC overreacted after Josy came in episode 3. When Josy said "We are all cheaters here" I though to myself "Well, speak for yourself". If the MC feels like a cheater at least it should have been justified to us players with some inner though or something. Those little things are the things that make us not empatize with the MC when we should.

Making Jade and Cathy not compatible with the M&J path is legitimate. I prefer being able to choose, more branching and facing consecuences for actions, but making some paths block others is fine too. I think Jade was well done. In the M&J path you arrive at the meeting place with both girls, Jade see is and not wanting to be recognized leaves fast. I don't see a problem with this. Cathy on the other hand makes no sense, MC rejects Cathy on the M&J path without informing the player or at least telling us why. Same with the bar interactions, at least there he tells us why we can't pursue them and Jill at the same time. I'd prefer the ability to fuck it up and face consecuences, but at least we are given a reason.

The MC was seen at the mansion, he wasn't invited and he's known for not liking Tybalt and the preps. I think it's enough to sue him, maybe not enough for a gilty veredict, but being tried could be very bad for someone financially impared as the MC. Jill knows this. As long as it's solid enough to blackmail Jill it's all that Tybalt needs.

I mean, Sage found panties in Chad's bag. She looks like the blind type when she's in a relationship, but she's not THAT stupid. She delegates a lot in Quinn, and she abused this to do her thing. Last year it looked like she was more careful than this one. Being smart doesn't mean not being gullible.

Burke seems to be able to cook the books to give tution to his whores. It doesn't sound unlikely at all.

That Bella scene is foreshadowing something, yes. Is that a problem?

I've complained a lot about the DIK system, a lot. Specially about the library scene, and how the game shouldn't check on affinity but on actions based on that affinity. This way we get MC who acted exactly the same towards M&J or Quinn and are rejected "because affinity". It doesn't make much sense.

I don't think you are an asshole or anything. You criticize things you don't like and that's fair, but none of them are plotholes and only a few could be considered poor writing. To me it just looks like you don't like this kind of game.