VN Ren'Py Being a DIK [v0.10.1] [DrPinkCake]

[felicemastronzo]

I agree with you here. Josy has been underutilized, but I find her a very compelling character. The comparison to Heather is, IMHO, unfair; we've never seen Heather bare her soul to the MC the way Josy did back in Episode 2, or even in the short scene bathroom scene in Episode 4. I feel like I understand what makes Josy tick, whereas I can only speculate about Heather (or would, if I cared about her).

but at first Josy is undoubtedly one of the best characters, even if only to be MC's first reciprocated love

but after...

Do you really consider this scene as Josy's strong point?



where does she blame MC for not rejecting her? when the only one who was actually in a relationship was just her ..
and where then she comes up with a gaffe that imposes an apology (of course not in person)

this scene is worth the escape of MC, forgivable only with the heat of the moment (always remembering that the first to escape is always Josy)

is this the Josy that fascinates you?

 

[ename144]

but at first Josy is undoubtedly one of the best characters, even if only to be MC's first reciprocated love

but after...

Do you really consider this scene as Josy's strong point?
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where does she blame MC for not rejecting her? when the only one who was actually in a relationship was just her ..
and where then she comes up with a gaffe that imposes an apology (of course not in person)

this scene is worth the escape of MC, forgivable only with the heat of the moment (always remembering that the first to escape is always Josy)

is this the Josy that fascinates you?

I find it a very human response to the MC's bullshit: the MC knew she was "off-limits" when he got involved with her, so there's no reason for him to hang everything on her just because he turned out to be friends with her SO. And it certainly ties in with her earlier talk. There, she was feeling trapped and alone without Maya. Now the person she turned to for support is ostracizing her despite knowing exactly how Josy feels about it. That's a deep cut, so yeah, no wonder Josy snaps at the MC.

IMHO, this is an effective example of illustrating the flaws in a character. It puts Josy in a bad light in the context of the scene, but does so in a way that makes sense and can be addressed by the character herself later on.

 

[DavDR]

but at first Josy is undoubtedly one of the best characters, even if only to be MC's first reciprocated love

but after...

Do you really consider this scene as Josy's strong point?
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where does she blame MC for not rejecting her? when the only one who was actually in a relationship was just her ..
and where then she comes up with a gaffe that imposes an apology (of course not in person)

this scene is worth the escape of MC, forgivable only with the heat of the moment (always remembering that the first to escape is always Josy)

is this the Josy that fascinates you?

Oh I agree with you, and it was not a great apology. But it does reveal something her personality. She's immature and self-centered. It's not a positive aspect but it does explain a lot about her and her insecurity at being alone.

I still think the whole key to Josy is her parents divorce. I think that all of her actions and all of her feelings stem from that one tragedy.

If DPC would develop her personality, let her experience some growth, I'd still be willing to forgive her.

 

[anonymoussposter]

That is just the problem. Josy did show some potential for interest early on but since arriving at B&R she's just Maya's LI.

THIS

 

[felicemastronzo]

I find it a very human response to the MC's bullshit: the MC knew she was "off-limits" when he got involved with her, so there's no reason for him to hang everything on her just because he turned out to be friends with her SO. And it certainly ties in with her earlier talk. There, she was feeling trapped and alone without Maya. Now the person she turned to for support is ostracizing her despite knowing exactly how Josy feels about it. That's a deep cut, so yeah, no wonder Josy snaps at the MC.

IMHO, this is an effective example of illustrating the flaws in a character. It puts Josy in a bad light in the context of the scene, but does so in a way that makes sense and can be addressed by the character herself later on.

I do not agree.

first of all she calls MC to talk in the bathroom and instead of calming him down she makes him even more upset, accusing him instead of explaining. so from a point of view of success: bad. it only makes the situation worse.

but then how do you put her and MC on the same level? this thing really doesn't make sense. how can you accuse another person of not rejecting you, when you are the busy one who should have done so?

if my girlfriend cheated on me with someone would they be equally guilty? I don't think so

what do you mean later? the fantastic post rejection speech? Is Josy particularly charming there too?


let's clarify: I do not argue that you like her or that she might like her in general, but you are referring to who she should be and what she could have done, because Josy in the last chapters is very little and not particularly successful

 

[DavDR]

I find it a very human response to the MC's bullshit: the MC knew she was "off-limits" when he got involved with her, so there's no reason for him to hang everything on her just because he turned out to be friends with her SO. And it certainly ties in with her earlier talk. There, she was feeling trapped and alone without Maya. Now the person she turned to for support is ostracizing her despite knowing exactly how Josy feels about it. That's a deep cut, so yeah, no wonder Josy snaps at the MC.

IMHO, this is an effective example of illustrating the flaws in a character. It puts Josy in a bad light in the context of the scene, but does so in a way that makes sense and can be addressed by the character herself later on.

No I disagree with you there about the MC knowing she was off limits. Josy did everything she could to encourage him. He tried to walk away. She's the one who kept drawing him back. The goodbye not farewell, the 'I'm running away' story, even in the scene after her Father's visit the 'I thought you'd fight harder' crap.

I just did a reply to Felice's post where I said I wanted to see her grow up some, but there's no doubt in my mind that Josy used the MC as an emotional crutch and then dropped him the second she got her Maya back. That's something she'd have to atone for before I'd ever consider her even a friend again.

 

[felicemastronzo]

Oh I agree with you, and it was not a great apology. But it does reveal something her personality. She's immature and self-centered. It's not a positive aspect but it does explain a lot about her and her insecurity at being alone.

I still think the whole key to Josy is her parents divorce. I think that all of her actions and all of her feelings stem from that one tragedy.

If DPC would develop her personality, let her experience some growth, I'd still be willing to forgive her.

they are all immature in this story, i lost hope for Jill and Bella too
but Josy, in that scene, has no intention of apologizing and does not.

in that scene she only defends herself.

I'm not arguing whether it's good or bad, but that's it

 

[-VQueS-]

I've seen comments before of people saying that it won't happen because this game is striving for "realism" and that this would not be a "realistic" relationship

It's more likely you will find people willing to put up with cheating or even enter a polyamorous/free love relationship than the daughter of a multi-millionaire, like Jill and Sage are implied to be, dating outside their circle.

 

[Deleted member 3006697]

Jill is concern that MC is living with Bella.

Spoiler: Jill jealousy?

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Loved this scene lol

 

[DavDR]

they are all immature in this story, i lost hope for Jill and Bella too
but Josy, in that scene, has no intention of apologizing and does not.

in that scene she only defends herself.

I'm not arguing whether it's good or bad, but that's it

I didn't mean the apology in the bathroom, there was no apology there she was only thinking of herself. I meant the text 'apology', which was still pretty bad, and cowardly to boot.

 

[JohnDelfino]

On the subject of the recent Josy criticisms, I'm honestly quite perplexed by them. I honestly don't get this whole, "she's not that interesting", thing because why is that even an issue? Is it not enough that she's a hot girl with a smoking body, has a fun and occasionally wild streak personality, and her life is relatively uncomplicated? Josy, for me, doesn't need anything more than what's going on with her right now and I'd honestly say that her being the least complicated of all the LIs (in terms of her having her own personal problems) actually makes her very appealing.

The problem is that Josy spends the first 3 episodes far away and what moments you do get with her have her 'boyfriend' hanging over it. Then when she finally arrives at the college its straight into the Josy/Maya threesome (which while I like both isn't really working for me) and now she feels more like Maya's shadow. It also doesn't help Josy that, in the last episode, Maya feels more like pre episode 4 Maya when she isn't around. Don't really want drama with her, just some time for her to shine.

 

[anonymoussposter]

No I disagree with you there about the MC knowing she was off limits. Josy did everything she could to encourage him. He tried to walk away. She's the one who kept drawing him back. The goodbye not farewell, the 'I'm running away' story, even in the scene after her Father's visit the 'I thought you'd fight harder' crap.

I just did a reply to Felice's post where I said I wanted to see her grow up some, but there's no doubt in my mind that Josy used the MC as an emotional crutch and then dropped him the second she got her Maya back. That's something she'd have to atone for before I'd ever consider her even a friend again.

i don't wanna go into blame game but this threesome or lesbian stuff ruined her story , the very first girl we met in game .

 

[Holy Bacchus]

about Josy: how does the fact that she is beautiful and that she is sexually free suffice? almost all the girls in the game respond to this identikit, but not all are LIs.

since when is there no personal moment between MC and Josy? from the phone call before her arrival at BR?
the only recent manifestation of her chatming character was that she talks to anyone, be it a nasty girl and clearly hostile to Maya, or the girl MC has had a date with. of course, completely superficial chatter in both cases.

besides that she likes flowers and loves her father, that we discover in the first chapters, what do we know about her?
thanks to the Gender lesson we know a lot more about 3-4 girls ...

what would be interesting for her? beauty? really?

And what's interesting about Bella beyond her looks and the locked door? What's interesting about Sage beyond her looks and being quite an easy lay for the MC? What we do we really know about them, or Jill, or even Maya? We know probably about as much about each of their personal lives as we do Josy's and we still know virtually nothing about Bella's, so what makes Josy so different?

Honestly speaking, No.
If looks were everything than what's the point of having LIs.
Personality, character, plot etc are what makes a LI different than other side girls.
And sadly, her personality is not noteworthy, character is weak and plot is non-existent.

And really, what about the other LIs makes them so different from Josy? We know a little bit about each of them and what's going on with them, but we still don't really know them, do we?

• Bella - Married, likely separated from her husband for reasons unknown, friends with Jill, has fairly cold and aloof personality, has a mysterious locked room in her house
• Jill - Single, part of the Royce family legacy, had older sister who died, has a sweet and innocent demeanour that makes her susceptible to manipulation
• Sage - In a relationship (recently broken up), President of the HOTs, has a bit of wild and kinky side to her, doesn't deal with her emotions well
• Maya - In a relationship, lesbian/possibly bi, enjoys movies, Dad is very religious and disapproves of her relationship, Dad is also withholding her tuition because of her relationship, has a fairly sweet disposition when she's not thinking about her problems
• Josy - In a relationship, lesbian/very likely bi, parents divorced when her Dad cheated on her Mom, she doesn't like/get on with her step-Mom and her real Mom, is quite sexually liberal with a fun-loving attittude and backbone when she needs it

So far, it could be argued that all the LIs haven't shown a great deal about who they really are as everything we've seen so far has been very minimal, so I honestly don't see anything negative with regards to Josy when comparing what we know about her to what we know about the other LIs.

tbh I've met quiet a few women in my life like Josy, with all the descriptors she has in the game, and if I am honest of those few there were some that were devoid of much else, they weren't vapid or shallow, but they weren't terribly interesting either. I can see the arguments about Josy but tbh it wouldnt hurt for her to have a "I love movies" moment like Maya did with the MC so that she can have a bit more fleshed out about herself. Speaking of, Maya having her username on her Cluck app show her love of movies is what drew me a bit more to her, maybe I think atleast for me Josy being along for the ride is what maybe is the problem.

Again, this point about being "interesting" is odd to me because it's almost like people want Josy to be as drama-laden as all the other LIs, as though because she seems to have a fairly uncomplicated home life and history that this doesn't make her appealing. In my opinion, she doesn't have to be dealing with some serious past or present trauma to make her "interesting" She's a sexy girl with a fun, bubbly, and quite liberal attitude and that, for me, is all that's needed to make her "interesting" because over time you'll find out more about her and if there's not much else there, then so be it, but for now she's still an enigma and that's what makes a relationship so exciting; peeling back the layers of a person one by one to reach the centre and to understand all there is to know about them.

 

[felicemastronzo]

And what's interesting about Bella beyond her looks and the locked door? What's intersting about Sage beyond her looks and being quite an easy lay for the MC? What we do we really know about them, or Jill, or even Maya? We know probably about as much about each of their personal lives as we do Josy's and we still know virtually nothing about Bella's, so what makes Josy so different?

Bella for me in fact has many problems like Josy in her storyline ... but at least she has it, however stupid and superficial

then if they are all equally interesting for you I don't know what to say ...
for me it is not like that

in the seventh chapter I have "anxieties" for each LIs and also for some secondary characters
the only anxieties / expectations related to Josy depend on Maya

 

[JohnDelfino]

This was a response to to a comment, I don't know where disappeared

Josy, without doubt. She is damn near perfect in every way, Her body is in perfect balance
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Josy is both cute and sexy which is a deadly combination.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

in the seventh chapter I have "anxieties" for each LIs and also for some secondary characters
the only anxieties / expectations related to Josy depend on Maya

But isn't it better to not have anxieties about a LI? If the only anxiety about Josy is that something would happen with her relationship with Maya because of Maya's Dad, then that's far preferable to some of the more extreme anxieties associated with other LIs.

 

[horusxcaen82]

Again, this point about being "interesting" is odd to me because it's almost like people want Josy to be as drama-laden as all the other LIs, as though because she seems to have a fairly uncomplicated home life and history that this doesn't make her appealing. In my opinion, she doesn't have to be dealing with some serious past or present trauma to make her "interesting" She's a sexy girl with a fun, bubbly, and quite liberal attitude and that, for me, is all that's needed to make her "interesting" because over time you'll find out more about her and if there's not much else there, then so be it, but for now she's still an enigma and that's what makes a relationship so exciting; peeling back the layers of a person one by one to reach the centre and to understand all there is to know about them.

tbh I dont want her to be overly complicated and drama-laden as you put it, I love Josie's girl next door feel that's what attracted me as a player/reader to her person, I just want there to be a bit more of a nugget of character because we haven't spent much time with her outside being the 3rd wheel to the Maya/Josy relationship and I just want a bit more, not asking for much and hopefully episode 7 we get it.

 

[rj677]

On the subject of the recent Josy criticisms, I'm honestly quite perplexed by them. I honestly don't get this whole, "she's not that interesting", thing because why is that even an issue? Is it not enough that she's a hot girl with a smoking body, has a fun and occasionally wild streak personality, and her life is relatively uncomplicated? Josy, for me, doesn't need anything more than what's going on with her right now and I'd honestly say that her being the least complicated of all the LIs (in terms of her having her own personal problems) actually makes her very appealing.

I dont agree with you there. I dont think anyone said that Josy wasnt interesting, we are saying that she is indeed interesting but the way that DPC chose to portray her made her bland and co-dependent on Maya, making it seem like Josy is just in the game to be Mayas LI, like DavDR said before.

Thats just one (of many) evidences to show that DPC seems to have a preference to Maya... But I dont want to discuss this on this post because I want to at least give Josy something that she doesnt have to share with Maya

And, to be truly honest, I think peoples opinion on Josy is being dragged down by peoples opinions on Maya and on the M&J path . Im just waiting for their eventual break up (at least on the other paths) to see what people REALLY think about Josy.

 

[Zirael Q]

Oh no doubt - knowing DPC, he'll find a way to kill her off in the most emotionally devastating way possible. I'd like to think maybe she'll have a redemption arc, but probably not. Someone else had said something in this thread that resonated with me in that the writer should give the players a path to an ending with the character they want so that they have a good feeling of accomplishment when they finish the game. But I suspect that may not be the case here, lol.

how do you "know" him? Please, indulge us. P L E A S E. All you did was, just like almost everyone here, play Acting Lessons. Do you live in the same house with him? Are you his friend? Do you even know his name and age? Did you have a discussion with him about his vision in writing?

Let me guess : No. For the love of sweet god, please stop acting like you know everything about a writer because you are aware of his ONE previous work. When he explicitly stated this game will have a light theme. Someone dying by overdose/murder/suicide is not very light, don't you think? There are other ways of making the reader feel bad/sad/sorry without killing a character off. Hoping for something to happen and trying to create a sensible context for it ain't gonna work either. Sorry.

 

[felicemastronzo]

But isn't it better to not have anxieties about a LI? If the only anxiety about Josy is that something would happen with her relationship with Maya because of Maya's Dad, then that's far preferable to some of the more extreme anxieties associated with other LIs.

but I talked about anxiety in general, in fact after I specified anxiety / expectations

I'm not anxious for Sage, nor for Jill for that matter, but I expect their story to proceed, for something to change

then if the break-in of Maya's father will have a positive effect on Josy's storyline, so be it.

if in the seventh chapter Josy had the same space that she had in the sixth (practically nil in importance) I would not be surprised at all.