VN Ren'Py Chasing Sunsets [v0.9a] [Stone Fox Studios]

[Mortarion]

I don see how you can change the terms of a licensing agreement after the music has been licensed. Apparently you can, but for example if I pay, I don’t know, $1000, to put your song in my game and I agree to do that under 1 set of T&Cs, and then you change the T&Cs my licensing agreement should be under the original rules. Future licensing would be effected, not past.

It's the same when you buy a movie/music title as pure digital edition and not the physical copy on CD/DVD/BluRay on lets say Amazon, or others - it makes no diffrence.

Just asume you have buyed Harry Potter 1-7 digital, and Warner decides that they don't want to extend the license to sell this stuff for Amazon. Just because they can and want to extend the portfolio of thier own streaming service. Amazon is forced to remove the titles from thier platform, and the poor bastatards with the digital version have send money for nothing. I have choosen HP on purpose because exactly that is happened two years ago, HP was not longer availible on Amazon.

The problem with all digital purchases is that you only buy the right to watch/listen to the film or music, which may be limited in time - nothing more. This cannot happen with the purchase of a physical copy, unless I somehow kill the CD/Bluray - but that is simply a clear case of own fault.

 

[always86]

It's the same when you buy a movie/music title as pure digital edition and not the physical copy on CD/DVD/BluRay on lets say Amazon, or others - it makes no diffrence.

Just asume you have buyed Harry Potter 1-7 digital, and Warner decides that they don't want to extend the license to sell this stuff for Amazon. Just because they can and want to extend the portfolio of thier own streaming service. Amazon is forced to remove the titles from thier platform, and the poor bastatards with the digital version have send money for nothing. I have choosen HP on purpose because exactly that is happened two years ago, HP was not longer availible on Amazon.

The problem with all digital purchases is that you only buy the right to watch/listen to the film or music, which may be limited in time - nothing more. This cannot happen with the purchase of a physical copy, unless I somehow kill the CD/Bluray - but that is simply a clear case of own fault.

It’s similar but different.

It’s more like if who ever owned the license to Johnny B. Goode told Universal that they were withdrawing the license and they’d have to edit the song out of Back to the Future. Or any music from a soundtrack really.

Of course it depends on the T&Cs that were agreed in the first place. But for example the Tony Hawkes remakes had to repay for the license for the music, but if they just rereleased the original they wouldn’t have had to.

 

[UncleFredo]

It's the same when you buy a movie/music title as pure digital edition and not the physical copy on CD/DVD/BluRay on lets say Amazon, or others - it makes no diffrence.

Just asume you have buyed Harry Potter 1-7 digital, and Warner decides that they don't want to extend the license to sell this stuff for Amazon. Just because they can and want to extend the portfolio of thier own streaming service. Amazon is forced to remove the titles from thier platform, and the poor bastatards with the digital version have send money for nothing. I have choosen HP on purpose because exactly that is happened two years ago, HP was not longer availible on Amazon.

The problem with all digital purchases is that you only buy the right to watch/listen to the film or music, which may be limited in time - nothing more. This cannot happen with the purchase of a physical copy, unless I somehow kill the CD/Bluray - but that is simply a clear case of own fault.

That's not necessarily how it works. This is a right for commercial use. The method by which the content is distributed is unimportant. In my experience, I purchased the right to incorporate it into my product or products depending on the exact use agreement. This is not a license to listen to it for some time period or in some location. Once I purchase it the creator surrenders their right to further restrict my use.

However, based on the description provided here and elsewhere by other devs dealing with this, it seems that Artlist is betting that various outlets are simply going to pull the game(s) in question and that the dev(s) won't have the resources to pursue them legally. Hence the reference to lawfare extortion.

 

[MrBubu]

Speaking from my experience with software open source, it's not because it's free that you are free to do what you want with it.

Everything comes with a license that explains what you are allowed to do and what are your obligations (if any).

If artlist specified in their license that they grant themselves the right to alter the condition of use at a later date retrospectively, they can.

If you think they have no right to do that you can fight them in court but is it worth it?

Free/open source is great, but you always have to beware of people that use it to gain popularity and then try to squeeze you.

Normally, at least with software, the license is packaged with it and should apply for perpetuity for that version. I have no idea about artlist, but if the developers can afford it, it would probably be preferable to pay and get a perpetual license with terms that cannot change.

 

[always86]

Speaking from my experience with software open source, it's not because it's free that you are free to do what you want with it.

Everything comes with a license that explains what you are allowed to do and what are your obligations (if any).

If artlist specified in their license that they grant themselves the right to alter the condition of use at a later date retrospectively, they can.

If you think they have no right to do that you can fight them in court but is it worth it?

Free/open source is great, but you always have to beware of people that use it to gain popularity and then try to squeeze you.

Normally, at least with software, the license is packaged with it and should apply for perpetuity for that version. I have no idea about artlist, but if the developers can afford it, it would probably be preferable to pay and get a perpetual license with terms that cannot change.

I think in this instance it isn’t free or open source, it’s a paid license.

 

[MrBubu]

I think in this instance it isn’t free or open source, it’s a paid license.

I based my assumptions on their google ad: "Explore 1000's of New Songs. Amazing Royalty-Free Music for Creators. 100% Copyright Free. "

All I wanted to point out is that event free, you are not free to do as you want with it.

Personally if I paid to use music in my game I'd be pissed off if they then said they don't allow it because they don't like my game...

 

[shazba]

Ok, after way too many recommendations, I've started playing this game. I really like it so far.

Favourite quote for now:

"It's cute that you think I won't throw you overboard because you're a girl."​

​

 

[CHAD-MAN]

Hopefully, this won't mean a Areas of GRAY and delay for 3 or 4 months because of "music". Thankfully, I doubt thats the case with Stoya and Kentyrr, but its a bit disappointing seeing delayed more down the line because of stuff like soundtrack

 

[Lostanddamned]

Ok, after way too many recommendations, I've started playing this game. I really like it so far.

Favourite quote for now:

"It's cute that you think I won't throw you overboard because you're a girl."​

​

I always knew that you’d find the way. Only thing left for you is to admit that Jaye is the best girl.

 

[JETracktor]

Favourite quote for now

 

[Ilhares]

Okay, I love the humor and an assortment of jokes on this one, really glad I recently added it to my collection-

but that van is fucking awesome, quit taking swings at a piece of classic automotive history, damn.
I can't even remember the last time I saw a van with Thrush pipes on it, and my current car rides too low to fit them.

 

[Jace_Herondale]

In case anyone is curious, Leap of Faith is the one that got hit with the song takedown.

Shit. That was one of my faovories.

 

[Cabin Fever]

Just brainstorming out loud, but if music is the only thing holding things back, what are the chances of releasing it without the music and have a later release with that added back on? While I like in-game music, I think that would be a short-term acceptable compromise.

 

[Bolero]

Music is overrated in these games anyway. Sure it is ok to have some, but it is all about the quality of the renders, the hotness of the characters and the story. Music is waaaaaaaaay behind all of this. At least it is for me.

 

[mitymity]

The only game from my signature i've played with sound/music on, is Summer's gone, so yeah...

 

[Cabin Fever]

Music is overrated in these games anyway. Sure it is ok to have some, but it is all about the quality of the renders, the hotness of the characters and the story. Music is waaaaaaaaay behind all of this. At least it is for me.

This is purely subjective of course, but try watching a movie on mute, with subtitle on. Most people will then realize how much they under-estimate the importance of music to the experience. One can easily argue that's a good analogy for a VN game.

 

[Deleted member 2808342]

Popping in real quick after a long absence.

Yes, it's true that music has left us in a bit of a lurch. More established games for the larger developers usually use individual song licenses, where we little fish typically purchase a subscription license to a music distribution portal.

It's entirely our fault, as it says in the ToS for the subscription license that the licensor can move the goalposts at any time. That even appears to be retroactively, in spite of the fact that every download is mapped to a project and date-stamped.

Lesson learned, and in some cases, we may be able to replace the license for the same song elsewhere, or if the song is important enough to the scene, purchase an individual-use license outright or reach out to the artist and try to work something out directly.

This only impacts Chapter 4 and Chapter 5, thankfully, so we don't have as steep a hill to climb as other devs who've relied on this vendor exclusively.

Going forward, new music will not be added via subscription licenses.

 

[ename144]

Popping in real quick after a long absence.

Yes, it's true that music has left us in a bit of a lurch. More established games for the larger developers usually use individual song licenses, where we little fish typically purchase a subscription license to a music distribution portal.

It's entirely our fault, as it says in the ToS for the subscription license that the licensor can move the goalposts at any time. That even appears to be retroactively, in spite of the fact that every download is mapped to a project and date-stamped.

Lesson learned, and in some cases, we may be able to replace the license for the same song elsewhere, or if the song is important enough to the scene, purchase an individual-use license outright or reach out to the artist and try to work something out directly.

This only impacts Chapter 4 and Chapter 5, thankfully, so we don't have as steep a hill to climb as other devs who've relied on this vendor exclusively.

Going forward, new music will not be added via subscription licenses.

Thanks for the update. I'm very sorry you have to muddle through this; it's a lousy way to handle IP rights IMHO, but such is life.

Best of luck getting proper licenses going forward!

 

[Deleted member 2808342]

Thanks for the update. I'm very sorry you have to muddle through this; it's a lousy way to handle IP rights IMHO, but such is life.

Best of luck getting proper licenses going forward!

As far as setbacks go, we consider ourselves blessed. We got this far without any major hiccups. I can't imagine playing Leap of Faith without Drifty's music, and I hope he's able to find a solution. We hate seeing bad things happen to good people.

 

[Cabin Fever]

As far as setbacks go, we consider ourselves blessed. We got this far without any major hiccups. I can't imagine playing Leap of Faith without Drifty's music, and I hope he's able to find a solution. We hate seeing bad things happen to good people.

Just brainstorming out loud, but if music is the only thing holding things back, what are the chances of releasing it without the music and have a later release with that added back on? While I like in-game music, I think that would be a short-term acceptable compromise.

What are the chances of following my earlier suggestion ^^^ ? As an added bonus it would give people like me an added incentive to replay the newest chapter with music later on!