Ren'Py Onhold Chimera: Bloodlines [Journal] [v2.0]

[Deleted member 2282952]

I think Zero- is telling about the lore/worldbuilding through storytelling, by using the "show don't tell" technique ( or similar ), and avoid using the 'exposition' heavy ( where a narrator usually the MC just tells everything about chimera, different types, ranks etc. ).

I mention something similar ( without any example ) briefly and perhaps very vaguely in one of my posts. I don't intend to influence the story or storytelling, which is why I haven't brought this topic before, because I will be judging it when I play. I will make the assessment how good the story and storytelling are ( of course subjective opinions ). But, regardless how it turns out to be, I will just adjust and align my expectations accordingly. It won't be a big turn off or major no go for me, because almost every aspects of a game can be improved further over time, especially if we give it chance to grow. For me, not all games have to be perfect and really good at story, storytelling and/or visuals & lewds all the time.

Show don't tell is one painful thing to master. I'm really good at telling, showing has been a gradual improvement over my career

Another example: when the mc goes to a side mission in the city, some people can comment on him, for example:
_Child: look mother! he is archer, he is one of the SSS chimera!
_Woman: Enough honey, stop looking at him, those "things" are dangerous.
A small dialogue that does not affect anything other than talking about the world of the chimera, gives personality to the story and enriches what one reads... and without changing anything from what I had planned, it has only enriched the dialogue... the chimerapad is the relationship system between the mc and the girls, which remains the same... this other one is just a script

You think in a good direction, whenever I play games, I enjoy those side conversations with random strangers, but because the game includes PoV, you will both read the thoughts of various characters about the situations, which provides more context on what everyone thinks and have those sort of exposition elements.

By the way, both Zero and John talked at some points about making the impact of choices a bit more visible to the player, so I decided to go back to the start and rewrite the whole 'choice' interface, which now has imagebuttons like below, instead of text selections (from my Figma board):

By the way, that doesn't mean changing anything from the original script or the original story that FunDi has already done, it's adding a little extra script in some scenes:
Original script(coffee)
Extra script(sugar)
Original script(coffee)
Original script(coffee) )
Original script(coffee)
Original script(coffee)
Extra script(sugar)
Original script(coffee)
...And so

My issue is not the amount of content, which I have way too much, but more of a what I put in The demo will focus primarily on action and sex scenes in various environments, as you get to know the different sides of the first characters, and then I will see by the reaction of the community how much 'coffee' they want. When I play personally, I enjoy very detailed worlds, even if it's a porn-only game, but hard to predict community reactions and good balance, part of the process.

 

[Zero-]

With respect to the points, I think the community is always divided 50/50... there are those who like to know what they are making and those who prefer not to know them and then see the result, in my case I am of the latter, I play first as I like it and then I patch it to see paths... if the game goes well maybe you can implement an on/off of it in the future?

 

[JohnF95zone]

Show don't tell is one painful thing to master. I'm really good at telling, showing has been a gradual improvement over my career

Yup, it is not easy but most important thing is not to force it, eventually it will become like second nature. As for the players, not everyone will prefer it. There are players who like exposition heavy narrative because they don't like surprises, they want to be 'spoon-fed' among other things.

My issue is not the amount of content, which I have way too much, but more of a what I put in The demo will focus primarily on action and sex scenes in various environments, as you get to know the different sides of the first characters, and then I will see by the reaction of the community how much 'coffee' they want. When I play personally, I enjoy very detailed worlds, even if it's a porn-only game, but hard to predict community reactions and good balance, part of the process.

Still I think you got it but it looks like I won't have my sugar packet ...I still think it will be very good(9.0/10)

We will find out when we play it soon, very soon. I think there will be sugar even if it is little. Even if it is not, it can be improved or added in future updates. Also, there are quite a number of members of this site that can provide good analysis and feedbacks especially on the story, and it is quite easy to gauge the general responses and/or reactions when the demo is out.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

Yup, it is not easy but most important thing is not to force it, eventually it will become like second nature. As for the players, not everyone will prefer it. There are players who like exposition heavy narrative because they don't like surprises, they want to be 'spoon-fed' among other things.

We will find out when we play it soon, very soon. I think there will be sugar even if it is little. Even if it is not, it can be improved or added in future updates. Also, there are quite a number of members of this site that can provide good analysis and feedbacks especially on the story, and it is quite easy to gauge the general responses and/or reactions when the demo is out.

It has been a while since I had a full night's sleep to get it done ... I am also trying to finish the trailer, happy with the script, and making a bunch of animations with different characters for it.

Though, I must say, it has been really fun.

Scenes 1-5 are fully rendered and now in voice-over, 2 to go, and then the final writing passes and QA. Weekend might be possible, hopefully. I hope I can get it done

The plan is: post on F95 - feedback - post the Demo on Steam if the Feedback isn't terrible.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

With respect to the points, I think the community is always divided 50/50... there are those who like to know what they are making and those who prefer not to know them and then see the result, in my case I am of the latter, I play first as I like it and then I patch it to see paths... if the game goes well maybe you can implement an on/off of it in the future?

Community: "Hey, why is this game that I downloaded for free doesn't 100% satisfy my every desire? The dev is a hack!"

I am saying it jokingly, but as part of the community who played lots of games, I tend to think the same things

The whole idea is explained by improving, for example, Archer goes to a bar and sits on a bench, if there are no hierarchies in the story, it means that Archer is just another character in his own world, in On the other hand, if everyone in that bar knows that the archer is an SSS chimera and shouldn't be messed with the(regardless of whether they respect him or not) the protagonist stands out much more from the rest, and it doesn't just apply to the archer, but also it applies to all characters( whether they are primary, second or tertiary ) ... notice the difference What creates the atmosphere of the game? I think you got it, but it looks like I won't have my sugar pack
I still think it will be very good ( 9.0 / 10 )

If I put what you are talking about in game terms (at least how I interpret your thoughts), you are talking about:
1) How the world reacts to your choices in different ways - which is the core of the game and already built in
2) Having sort of a side activities where you get to just do non-plot things, like go to a bar, meet with a character/stranger/explore, etc. - this is what I have been working on as additional features as "CHARACTERS" and "EVENTS" and "MAP" in ChimeraPad interface that allows you to use action points in order to pursue those side activities and improve relationships.
However, due to the complexity of it, I don't think it will be available for the beta, or maybe in a very 'high level' way like a storyboard or smth like this.

Edit: sorry if some words seemed offensive, I had to edit them a few times because the translator really seems to enjoy changing all the words he can haha

You can say what you want - the thoughts of others help me iterate ideas. If it's something unhelpful like "wow, this game is terrible", I just won't respond

 

[Zero-]

Hey FunDi, leaving the chimera topic a bit and taking advantage of the fact that you are a developer with good knowledge... As a developer of these types of games, do you think there are ways to implement tools that help Devs to develop vns?

 

[JohnF95zone]

The plan is: post on F95 - feedback - post the Demo on Steam if the Feedback isn't terrible.

Add a few steps after the first feedback:
1. Fix bugs, and/or 're-work', refine or tweak based on the feedbacks
2. Release the patch
3. Repeat
( Hopefully this cycle on happens once. Note that this is rapid cycle, less than a week. )

At least this is what Jubei did with Lilith Rising ( formerly known as Tainted ). The idea is to delay the debut on Steam ( paid platform ) before the game is ready ready.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

Hey FunDi, leaving the chimera topic a bit and taking advantage of the fact that you are a developer with good knowledge... As a developer of these types of games, do you think there are ways to implement tools that help Devs to develop vns?

Feel free to ask a bit more details, but overall, I am a HUGE supporter of "if something does a task better - you must use it".

There is basic stuff like Blender/Daz3d for all 3D stuff.

For tooling, it really depends on the engine. For Ren'Py, I just wrote my own architecture from nothing, because Python is an easy language to use. When I use Unity, I ALWAYS buy plugins that save me time like various controllers, architecture, etc. - so I can focus on level design.

For writing, mix of Grammarly/GPT/Thesaurus, but you shouldn't rely on GPT for writing, it is ok, but often misses the mark.

For content - your basic Adobe stuff - Photoshop for post-processing, Premiere Pro for Video, etc.

For music - FL Studio and various GPT tools to help structure thing out and accelerate development

Stable diffusion for cityscapes.

Idk if you are interested in something specific, I use a lot of tools, because they allow me to do everything and cut down on the boring tasks.

Add a few steps after the first feedback:
1. Fix bugs, and/or 're-work', refine or tweak based on the feedbacks
2. Release the patch
3. Repeat
( Hopefully this cycle on happens once. Note that this is rapid cycle, less than a week. )

At least this is what Jubei did with Lilith Rising ( formerly known as Tainted ). The idea is to delay the debut on Steam ( paid platform ) before the game is ready ready.

Yep, that was implied. Feedback will probably take a couple of weeks, but I don't anticipate technical bugs, it will probably be mostly about rewriting/rerendering/story-related fixes.

F95 is a goldmine, that I can test a product with a huge community, that's why as a game dev I'm an avid supporter of 'piracy'. In mainstream gaming you almost never share the game outside of a closed circle, and that's why so many games end up being so bad recently.

 

[JohnF95zone]

F95 is a goldmine, that I can test a product with a huge community, that's why as a game dev I'm an avid supporter of 'piracy'. In mainstream gaming you almost never share the game outside of a closed circle, and that's why so many games end up being so bad recently.

Mainstream gaming perhaps still stuck on the old ways and never move forward. I don't know why because I'm an outsider to the industry. Steam Early Access Program is really good platform for mainstream gaming, as F95zone to the adult gaming.

However, if I ever go into making game, it will be mainstream because the market is huge compared to the adult game. At least, I would make DLC just for the adult contents, so that the main game is available for all, only the DLC is age and region restricted. However, this is just a dream since I only have idea or vision but no real experience and expertise.

 

[JohnF95zone]

I don't anticipate technical bugs

Bugs are the part and parcel of game development, but for some players it is almost unforgivable sins, mainly the following:
1. "Choice that don't matter".
For example, regardless of the choice made by the player, the follow up event plays out exactly the same. Sometime it is a bug, sometime it is intended for strange reason. Regardless, players will start shouting "choices don't matter" and it is truly uncalled for when it is a bug. This happens a lot that everyone on this site should already be aware of it but yet, it keeps on happening. I really can't blame the indie developers though, they just have to have thick skin when this happened. It can be flawless but no one will ever notice or mention it, only when it errs it gets the spotlight.

2. "Missing assets like images or animations".
Less common but typically happens during corner cases, side contents or non-primary route, and/or scene variations, among others. Sometimes it is due error or mistake during packaging. Not sure how or what best to mitigate this but having a checklist is kinda an overkill or more of a hassle than convenient IMO.

3. "Old saves don't work".
Another common pitfall for games that is currently ongoing development. The players hate this the most I guess. This won't be an issue for the demo/first release so nothing to worry about. Considering that the architecture and/or framework of the game is ready with the demo, most likely there won't be issues with the save. Just a heads up.

4. "Ignoreable error when playing the game, usually syntax error or variables issues".
This is quite common, most tech savy players just click Ignore and continue, but there are others who simply rage quit. I don't know much about Python or Ren'Py but I guess since it is an interpreted programming language and not compiled like Java, C or C++, these errors can only be found during runtime i.e. while playing. It seems to me that there is no way to find out when building the game.

The rest usually just petty/small bugs like typos, grammar, wrong speakers among other things, which are negligible. All four bugs above are also non game breaking bugs but the players view them as if it is, especially for 1 & 3.

By common standard, as long as it is non game breaking bug, it should be fine. It is really impossible for one person to extensively test a game that he himself made and know by heart, instinctively play the right way. This is where 'testers' ( F95zone members ) come in the picture.

Technical stuff that doesn't carry much weight but being asked a lot, official multi-platform support for MacOS and Android ( sometime even iOS ). I think you are already aware but I suggest that you put it into low priority Product Backlog ( far future ). Some modders will probably do something about it, and if there are issues, let them deal with it for the time being. Just focus on PC and/or Linux first. But, if you already has MacOS build and can support it too, then it is very good indeed.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

Bugs are the part and parcel of game development ...

What I meant to say was that I am confident that on the coding side, there are unlikely to be errors, my bug-testing is fairly comprehensive, but something always goes through, yep.

1. It seems more of a global game issue, but from the technical perspective, I did encounter a couple of database bugs. For now, it seems like the various variables I am tracking are adding up correctly. I would rather have a short game with freedom than a long linear one, I feel like the way my plot is right now strikes the right balance, but it would need to be tested.

Fun fact, I learned to make game databases by going over the Disco Elysium code

2. I have OCD when it comes to file naming, lol. I have to say, the way I am doing it right now is not precisely optimized; that will need to be figured out later..

3. A good thing about Ren'Py is that it is pretty difficult to mess up the save files because it just tracks where you stopped in a Scene file. The only times saves don't work for new versions is when you introduce bunch of new variables into new scenes that the player hasn't played or along those lines - cause the variable doesn't get initiated then (and other use cases like this, but you really can never tell until that happens)

4. #co-pilot - no more syntax bugs. Runtime errors can occur on some weirdly configurated devices, but not much you can do about it, I have 5 devices where i can test the games, if it works on all of them, I will assume all is good and then see how it goes Device compatibility is a pain

Publishing on Android is a different story, I'm not touching that yet, it will be a separate can of worms.

I'm primarily worried that people won't enjoy my writing style tbh, or that the plot isn't interesting enough, but I guess those concerns are pretty common, always been confident on the technical side of things (maybe overconfident, but whatever).

 

[JohnF95zone]

Fun fact, I learned to make game databases by going over the Disco Elysium code

Cool. What is the game database? Is it the embedded sqlite? At least, I know there is one game on this site that uses it but it uses Godot instead of Ren'Py. The game is The Anomalous Dr Vibes.

Nice that you have really great setups for testing.

I'm primarily worried that people won't enjoy my writing style tbh, or that the plot isn't interesting enough, but I guess those concerns are pretty common, always been confident on the technical side of things (maybe overconfident, but whatever).

If that is the case, you just need to find your counterpart for the writing, so that you can focus on the technical part. For Indie developers, usually the duo teams that make the best games. One writes a compelling story, and the artist & coder makes that words come to live, digitally.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

Adding to what Jhon has told you about the ending... try releasing a compressed version of your game, maybe some people are more willing to pay a patron if the release comes with a compressed version

I am going for UHD renders, it will definitely not be small ... I will need to see what the final sizes look like, might need to compress everything

Cool. What is the game database? Is it the embedded sqlite? At least, I know there is one game on this site that uses it but it uses Godot instead of Ren'Py. The game is The Anomalous Dr Vibes.

Nice that you have really great setups for testing.


If that is the case, you just need to find your counterpart for the writing, so that you can focus on the technical part. For Indie developers, usually the duo teams that make the best games. One writes a compelling story, and the artist & coder makes that words come to live, digitally.

The database is basically a bunch of complex lists that store variables; that's pretty much it. Disco Elysium is a good use case because they have 24 skills with lots of subsets that are all being tracked for various conversations. I learned a lot about how to structure things and turn them into narrative devices.

We will see how it goes with the writing part

 

[JohnF95zone]

The database is basically a bunch of complex lists that store variables; that's pretty much it. Disco Elysium is a good use case because they have 24 skills with lots of subsets that are all being tracked for various conversations. I learned a lot about how to structure things and turn them into narrative devices.

Ah I see.. that database.. at least for me, commonly in the form of Excel spreadsheets

 

[JohnF95zone]

I know there is one developer who actually took the community compressed version of his game and sells it for USD 5 on itch.io. Just saying how good the compression quality by the GCR Team.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

First Cinematic Trailer and Demo Update - Scenes 1-5 Complete!

Spoiler

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[Deleted member 2282952]

Thanks for the 5k views in this thread! I know it doesn't mean 5k people, but I still wanted to express my gratitude

Here are a couple of renders from the Demo that I really liked (not post-processed in Photoshop yet, forgive the small issues):

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

For anyone seeing this, let me bounce off an idea I've been working on.

Because the game has a lot of variables that are being tracked for choices (alignment, core system: redemption, corruption & anarchy, and many more), I realized that a lot of the additional dialogue/events I am going to write specifically if you hit certain variables wouldn't really be noticed by the players, and they won't realize that those things are outcomes of their decisions.

In order to show the players that they are missing out on something extra, I've written out a simple additional system (already implemented in code):

Original line: "A heady mix of booze and lust overwhelms me."

IF corruption >= 3, then the line becomes:
"A heady mix of booze and lust overwhelms me. [Corruption Check: Pass]"
---> extra event/dialogue/etc.
-> The game continues

IF corruption <3 then the line becomes:
"A heady mix of booze and lust overwhelms me. [Corruption Check: Fail]"
-> The game continues, but the player knows they missed out because their character doesn't have enough of a trait.

This system is already in place for choices (some choices are not available, and the player sees them), but I was thinking of making it within the text boxes as well to hammer the point that upon replaying in different routes, you get some interesting extra things.

Would be interested to hear your or anyone else's thoughts on this. JohnF95zone Zero-

Personally, I'm 80% for the idea.

___

Also, to make the demo better, it will now have 2 more scenes, totaling at 9 for Chapter 1. The development will take longer because I want to make the Demo as good as possible. 250+ unique renders are already completed and being coded/written in (the only thing I do in my free time lol). Hard to balance with a full-time job, but we are almost there!

 

[JohnF95zone]

Cool. You have basically implemented in-game hint system or a basic built-in walkthrough 'mod'.

It is even better if you can make it as a toggle preference/option that player can select for example, Hints: On / Off. Perhaps, there are players who like some challenges will appreciate the gesture while of course the majority just want to get all the contents as easy as possible.

But, if you are short on time, you don't have to implement the option now but instead just wait for more feedbacks and decide later to do it or not.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

Cool. You have basically implemented in-game hint system or a basic built-in walkthrough 'mod'.

It is even better if you can make it as a toggle preference/option that player can select for example, Hints: On / Off. Perhaps, there are players who like some challenges will appreciate the gesture while of course the majority just want to get all the contents as easy as possible.

But, if you are short on time, you don't have to implement the option now but instead just wait for more feedbacks and decide later to do it or not.

Oh, this is a nice touch and pretty simple to introduce too... It's just an extra IF statement. The beauty of ChatGPT is that you can ask it to edit all lines

Then I will just add the feature and can have a button to kill these things off. Probably pretty simple to implement, but yeah, I will leave the turning-off button for later.



I've been thinking about it after playing around with Disco Elysium, and how their dialogues constantly tell you [Fail/Success] as you play, so that you know "you are not getting it because of your build," but you get something else instead later.

Yeah, as I write it, I def like it... Good to get second pair of eyes on this stuff.