Ren'Py Onhold Chimera: Bloodlines [Journal] [v2.0]

[Zero-]

It's a good idea, you can put a small text box on it that says "note: the routes you take with your character may vary the dialogue and add some extra scene", so the players will know and notice it

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

OMG, I spent 20 hours this weekend (yep, I didn't sleep much) in Photoshop and Premiere Pro to prepare the game for the Steam page, which barely left me time for game development, except for finishing the Map & Travel User Interface Systems.

Everything seems to look good and aligned with their policies, so should be no issues. The page is sent for review!

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[JohnF95zone]

Congrats and all the best with Steam greenlight! The map looks good, and the LIs icons at the places where they are is a nice touch. The email 'system' also looks neat, intuitive.

Probably take it easy for this week, as all the heavy lifting are done already.

 

[Zero-]

I like the detail that the points are limited, it makes you have to use them more wisely, very successful in my opinion

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

Congrats and all the best with Steam greenlight! The map looks good, and the LIs icons at the places where they are is a nice touch. The email 'system' also looks neat, intuitive.

Probably take it easy for this week, as all the heavy lifting are done already.

Yeah, I now have all assets, UI, etc., so it's primarily about writing the game and coding for additional features - which is more fun than stylizing and "pixel-pushing"; or conceptualizing how features will look.

In my head, I thought the dev would be faster - I underestimated the challenges of making a good game and how many redos you need.

Will definitely get more optimized now that I get the hang of things.

I like the detail that the points are limited, it makes you have to use them more wisely, very successful in my opinion

Thanks!

It is really valuable to make sure that your Steam page is the best it could be ... I spent way too much time on those short chunks of text... Researching how best and similar games do it, etc. Those horizontal images are actually animated gifs that will look pretty cool once the page is out.

I'm really interested to see the wishlist pace on Steam for Adult games - that's a completely new area.

 

[Saint Blackmoor]

I agree with JohnF95zone statements 100%, FunDi. I applaud the meticulous approach to your game. The X factor is the audience. Also, your audience is made up of people from across the globe. They might have different likes and dislikes based on their cultures.

I know not many agree with my idea, but doing a small completed game is one way to go.
You are basically making a checklist of experienced situations to change or improve without a large investment of time and money. That includes getting to know your audience.

Just my two cents.
I wish you success.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

I agree with JohnF95zone statements 100%, FunDi. I applaud the meticulous approach to your game. The X factor is the audience. Also, your audience is made up of people from across the globe. They might have different likes and dislikes based on their cultures.

I know not many agree with my idea, but doing a small completed game is one way to go.
You are basically making a checklist of experienced situations to change or improve without a large investment of time and money. That includes getting to know your audience.

Just my two cents.
I wish you success.

Thanks, that's appreciated! I tend to agree with most things John says as well

I'm one of those people that like churning out text and writing documents, so that's why things appear to be meticulous... hopefully, they're in reality too.

The audience is obviously unpredictable, I will see the reactions once the demo is out (which I keep redoing)... With SFW games, you have lots of research that allow you to predict fairly accurately a lot of reactions (part of my irl job) - in adult games, especially since I'm just joining, I wouldn't be surprised if the majority hates it, but I also wouldn't be surprised if people love it.

Quick fun fact, to make sure that Variables have an actual impact on the dialogue, here is the code needed to write one line of text xD it looks complicated on the back end, but results in some pretty cool choice effects in the game! Part of our previous discussion..

 

[JohnF95zone]

I know not many agree with my idea, but doing a small completed game is one way to go.
You are basically making a checklist of experienced situations to change or improve without a large investment of time and money. That includes getting to know your audience.

Absolutely spot on. This is the safest, almost risk-free approach that first time developer would make, and quite a number of them did just that. I would give the same suggestion and/or advice to any new developers as well.

However, when I first learn about this game and this development thread, FunDi had already created an expansive Chimera world especially in his head, some were already posted on this thread, most are already in the game he was making. I believe one of the reason is that FunDi is already an experienced game developer, mainstream game. So, I just skip any kind of suggestions altogether and instead provide 'data' especially that relates to the targeted audiences, which then lead to what we have today.

Personally, ( as a noob game developer myself ) I would just release a short VN which is precursor to the demo, probably boringly titled "A day with Archer". It basically chronicles just a day on Archer's life as an exterminator, where the player follows Archer on one of his hunts. It give player just a glimpse of what chimera world is about. He catches a female chimera ( not a LI ), have his way with her ( player choice since this is basically forced sex ), then kills her ( it his job basically ). He said or thought to himself, what a waste, what if things were different? The game ends.

I would have released this first ( probably 3 - 6 months before demo ), refined the chimera world based on the feedbacks, and developed the gameplay/gaming experience based on feedbacks. The biggest hurdle would then to justify or explain the 'sandbox' or freeroam element for the actual game, whereas the teaser is just a simple VN. Actually, DriftyGames did something similar with his games. First game, Leap of Faith is basically VN with branching choices, but his second game u4ia contains 'sandbox' or freeroam ( honestly, I don't really understand the difference, probably sandbox is associated with grind, but freeroam is not ). He can do that because he is the 'GOAT', but it can be difficult for new developer that has no foothold yet. As soon as, a new developer puts a 'sandbox' or freeroam in his game, people like "I'm out", but when Drifty does it "He's a genius". I'm not bashing developers but the players.

 

[Saint Blackmoor]

However, when I first learned about this game and this development thread, FunDi had already created an expansive Chimera world, especially in his head.

From reading your and FunDi's extensive correspondence, I feel the game will do well for a targeted audience.

Personally ( as a noob game developer myself )

Tell me, is there good money in developing Noobs? (I couldn't pass up that one.)

How about a noob game?
The Noob Chronicles!
Follow along, dear friends, as our protagonist ascends the many levels of Noobdore. You begin as a lowly noob, the lowest of the low, and after many trials and whining, you can move up to the Newbie level. From there, progress is difficult. No more Mommy to kiss away your tears or Big Brother to scare away the bullies, Etc...

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

Absolutely spot on. This is the safest, almost risk-free approach that first time developer would make, and quite a number of them did just that. I would give the same suggestion and/or advice to any new developers as well.

If it was my first game - I would agree that's the best approach, but I felt pretty confident in the universe, and would rather develop this one thing by chapters. I will only drop it and make another title if the game completely sucks. Can also always make 5 chapters and move on, which kinda gives a full title.

I would have released this first ( probably 3 - 6 months before demo ), refined the chimera world based on the feedbacks, and developed the gameplay/gaming experience based on feedbacks. The biggest hurdle would then to justify or explain the 'sandbox' or freeroam element for the actual game, whereas the teaser is just a simple VN. Actually, DriftyGames did something similar with his games. First game, Leap of Faith is basically VN with branching choices, but his second game u4ia contains 'sandbox' or freeroam ( honestly, I don't really understand the difference, probably sandbox is associated with grind, but freeroam is not ). He can do that because he is the 'GOAT', but it can be difficult for new developer that has no foothold yet. As soon as, a new developer puts a 'sandbox' or freeroam in his game, people like "I'm out", but when Drifty does it "He's a genius". I'm not bashing developers but the players.

Honestly, it's a solid approach, but I feel like there are so many underwhelming demos on this website, the competition might be too rough. I would rather potentially fail with a bigger thing. I guess it's a bit of perfectionism, too - my Demo is essentially turned into an entire Chapter 1, which wasn't an intention, but I felt like I couldn't show everything I wanted below 1/2 hours playthrough mark.

As a hardcore VN player (my VNDB has way too many played titles) - the difference is: if the game has a sandbox, it is not a VN. Sandbox can be a VN, but VN can't be a sandbox... The community is kinda wild about those definitions.

From reading your and FunDi's extensive correspondence, I feel the game will do well for a targeted audience.

Lol, looking back, the discussions might be a bit too extensive, but it def helped me develop a concept appropriately. I was pretty lost when I started.

Tell me, is there good money in developing Noobs? (I couldn't pass up that one.)

Well, I taught my grandpa how to use a computer and internet, and I can tell you there isn't any money in developing noobs, only extreme stress and virus cleanup from porn websites.

How about a noob game?
The Noob Chronicles!
Follow along, dear friends, as our protagonist ascends the many levels of Noobdore. You begin as a lowly noob, the lowest of the low, and after many trials and whining, you can move up to the Newbie level. From there, progress is difficult. No more Mommy to kiss away your tears or Big Brother to scare away the bullies, Etc...

Synopsis: "The protagonist has no goals or objectives in life except one - become a professional voyeurist. Unfortunately, due to his clumsy nature, he is a complete noob when it comes to observing women, and always gets caught. Experience the journey of a socially shunned noob protagonist caught for peeping on his teacher, classmates, mother, and sisters, and take him onto the path of becoming an expert voyeurist, trade images of his victims, and make them show you all of their secret sides..."

 

[JohnF95zone]

If it was my first game - I would agree that's the best approach, but I felt pretty confident in the universe, and would rather develop this one thing by chapters. I will only drop it and make another title if the game completely sucks. Can also always make 5 chapters and move on, which kinda gives a full title.
...
Honestly, it's a solid approach, but I feel like there are so many underwhelming demos on this website, the competition might be too rough. I would rather potentially fail with a bigger thing. I guess it's a bit of perfectionism, too - my Demo is essentially turned into an entire Chapter 1, which wasn't an intention, but I felt like I couldn't show everything I wanted below 1/2 hours playthrough mark.
...

True to that. There is no silver bullet, single approach for all. Each developer actually has to find their own way, that suits their competencies and comfort zone. I would take the safe route approach if I ever make game because I have zero background making game. Less risk & small scope, but less or probably no return ( it is very common that the first try failed ).

The best approach is undoubtly the 'agile' approach, which can adapt and change on the fly based on the circumstances. Even without any release so far, you have demonstrated just that, and that is a big plus.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

Chimera: Bloodlines - Available to Wishlist on Steam!

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[Deleted member 2282952]

Alright, it's 2 AM. I made a decision to go nuclear and redo all my renders from zero.

Had an opportunity to talk to a cool game dev who showed me a trick to make the quality of renders 100x times better (and also taught me about camera positioning). Let's be honest, 3D is the skill I was lacking the most, so this has been the steepest learning curve for me for the past 3 months as the last skill I need to develop.

Aaaanyways.

I finally understood the look I want to go for, time for a redo, and then continued content production.



I have also set up a local GPT to help breathe in just a little bit more life into the text - and the results are good. I found a bunch of uncensored language models (meaning it doesn't have the damn moralism and content moderation - zero guardrails) -and they really can add spice (sometimes).

If anyone is interested, this model is the best out of the dozen I tested:

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At the very least, most coding stuff is done xP I hope someone enjoyed my late-night rant.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

I am one of those who thinks that a decision made at 2AM cannot be a good one haha... but I understand you, your renders were 8.5/10, maybe you liked the idea of reaching 10/10, support... same sad news

I am a night owl and make the best decisions at night!

Looking back at previous version renders, I would say that textures/composition are indeed around 8, but I understand now that I had some misconceptions about lightning, subject (aka the focus of the image) and camera positioning. To put it simply- everything is way too busy.

Aaaanddd, the genius I am, I completely forgot to apply HDRU to the skies in some scenes - so they would need to be redone anyways.

I am happy with the changes, and as always, the only issue is finding the damn time.

I pulled off the big d move at my work and said that on Mondays I'll be working on my own stuff - it worked xD

 

[JohnF95zone]

At least don't completely delete the original ( even if it sucks ) because it can be a good 'Behind The Scenes" or 'The Making Of" contents in the future. Anyway. it is good that you are getting good if not great advices from actual developer ( who I assume is also a 3D Artist ) and not just potential players/fans. As a player, I can only give basic feedbacks like "like, dislike, okay, amazing etc." but the feedbacks lack technical nuances that can be useful to improve the visuals.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

At least don't completely delete the original ( even if it sucks ) because it can be a good 'Behind The Scenes" or 'The Making Of" contents in the future. Anyway. it is good that you are getting good if not great advices from actual developer ( who I assume is also a 3D Artist ) and not just potential players/fans. As a player, I can only give basic feedbacks like "like, dislike, okay, amazing etc." but the feedbacks lack technical nuances that can be useful to improve the visuals.

My slightly severe OCD forces me to save everything always with 2 cloud backups. This comes in handy because I also save every scene as a separate file, which allows me to come back and redo everything.

Here are a couple of examples (stuff is still rendering):

Before:




After:




I am also redoing the entire branding, I wish I had a third workstation xD

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

By the way, you could also finish what you have done so far and present it like this, and while you work on a rework, clarifying that it is only a demo version and that the renders will be updated in the next installment (you could prepare some comparative renders for the presentations)...I don't know, so as not to dynamite so quickly a job that was already almost finished and that only lacks a visual touch up...that way also and whoever likes it can give support and read first opinions

As they say, you only have one chance to make a good first impression..

It's a mindset sort of thing. If I think about it as a failure, then yeah - time wasted, but if I think about it from the skills side - those learnings are useful and for life. And using this thread helps me position everything in my head with other people, which is great too, and explains so many messages

 

[JohnF95zone]

Here are a couple of examples (stuff is still rendering):

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I am also redoing the entire branding, I wish I had a third workstation xD

I like both the Before and After images. Just a simple observations, basically the After renders have this blur effect ( tele photo lense? I don't know the term ), which is usually applied in movies when it wants to shift the focus on something in the screen, usually the characters.

Image 1, the After render looks a little bit 'grainy' than the Before, but barely visible at least on my 16" 1080p LCD screen. Background ( kitchen perhaps & wall ) has the blur effect. Maybe it is intended or just need to 'de-noise' it again?
Image 2 & 3, After render has the blur effect, focus is on the girls face. The structures in the background also have richer color to it.
Image 4, different pose, more sexy and intimate, the focus on sexy figure of the girls back. The outside buildings also has the blur effect. Before Image has the environment ( floor, glass door ) that can potentially steals the limelight.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

I like both the Before and After images. Just a simple observations, basically the After renders have this blur effect ( tele photo lense? I don't know the term ), which is usually applied in movies when it wants to shift the focus on something in the screen, usually the characters.

Depth of Field + Shaders + Improved Camera Positioning + More Render Samples + Some Light Shifts

Image 1, the After render looks a little bit 'grainy' than the Before, but barely visible at least on my 16" 1080p LCD screen. Background ( kitchen perhaps & wall ) has the blur effect. Maybe it is intended or just need to 'de-noise' it again?

Forgot to say that After images are not post-processed, I have an additional system that denoises, upscales, and applies Photoshop effects - so yeah, not final.

Image 2 & 3, After render has the blur effect, focus is on the girls face. The structures in the background also have richer color to it.

My workstation has a better setup now, so the GPU can handle more sampling.

Image 4, different pose, more sexy and intimate, the focus on sexy figure of the girls back. The outside buildings also has the blur effect. Before Image has the environment ( floor, glass door ) that can potentially steals the limelight.

You know - you sit down and make an adult game, and kinda forget about the whole 'adult' thing - way too much story exposition, not enough spiciness, this is being improved.

 

[Deleted member 2282952]

The changes are more noticeable in the archer-jazmine scene, they feel much warmer, there they have improved a lot... but in mia renders, it's the opposite, the error made the sky look cloudy and the walls if They gave the feeling of being in a ruin. About the demo, it depends on time, if it takes a lot to redo it, maybe it's better to have a demo around (I suppose if the player knows that those renders will give a higher quality jump, it won't be a bad impression)

Since I didn't have a lot of renders, it was a bit more difficult to showcase the difference.

Here are a couple more examples (it takes 1 hour per render...):

Archer Drinking:



Archer Stance:



Mia:



Those renders are not post-processed. After I run them through Photoshop, they look a lot better, and small things are fixed.

I'm super excited about the quality bump! I didn't realize small things make such a difference.