Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 54] [CSDev]

[CSdev]

Thanks for the responses CSdev. Mayhem's still stuck in the EXPO pit three loops later but after I gave up on her fixing her style I used Grand Concert to unlock her tempt ability so that's probably why.

I had a suggestion pop into my mind the other day as I was playing. I put a forsaken up (Mayhem) in the bait position for loop 2 and was surprised when coincidentally the portrait that was chosen had the same hair color. I thought that was kind of neat, almost like it was following anime rules where everyone in a family had the same hair color. Then I thought that it might be straightforward to implement a system like that for real, if you allowed for a simple text file in the portrait folder that just included a list of other portrait names that the current one was 'similar to'.

If you could set it up so that when a bait character draws in a family member (or maybe do the check when anyone is made a family member) that it looks at that character's assigned portrait and tries to draw from the list, you could allow for them to inherit similar looks from them.

Four issues in advance:

• Players can change portraits so the system might fall apart if they do that
• Portrait packs are somewhat limited due to the quality and quantity of pictures needed (I got repeat chosen on loops 3 and 4 but that might just be because I updated a version), so the system would only hold up as long as the small pool of options within a linkage does
• Theoretically this relationship also allows for intersecting sets (A looks like B, who looks like C, but A and C do not look that alike and might be step-siblings or have inherited different genes something), for better or for worse. It could be possible to first generate a chosen, then generate a sister, then off that bait daughter generate a mother who matches one sibling much better than other.
• Might not be a simple task to add depending on how you handle chosen generation and portrait assignment, it's too minor to be worth serious energy

The game does already try to give the same portrait to twins of the same species, so the code framework is already there for this sort of thing. The big problem is the lack of variety in the default portrait pack. I suppose it would be possible to have the game read a "family groupings" text file or something that could be packaged with player-made portrait packs and try to assign similar faces based on that, but even in the best-case scenario it'd probably be pretty janky in practice.

Since this loop is my first time training forsaken, I did some math on their values (specifically, their risk vs reward due to disgrace) and figured I'd share a writeup for people who are interested. Some of this info is poorly documented or not easy to get to as a player, and other is documented fine but the actual useful conclusions need more math. I think I did it right but if you spot any mistakes let me know, and if you don't like math just read the last part.

Step 1, figure out how disgrace's cost vs power scales.

This is in the reference text, and at values above 10 disgrace they are steady functions - one's a polynomial, (well line, but it counts) one's an exponential. This is all we need, because if you actually use forsaken at 10 disgrace or lower I am afraid of you and you have transcended math.

Step 2, gain predictive power.

I couldn't be bothered to write out the equations myself (even the simple power reduction) so I fit the curves in wolfram. Here are the two equations, and you can find the cost and power of a forsaken for any given disgrace X. Testing with the values of my existing forsaken proves they work.

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

Step 3, derive useful information.

Obviously nobody uses 1 disgrace forsaken (It's possible to get one with the right ability) because they cost too much EE, and nobody uses 100 disgrace forsaken because they deal 0 damage. Is there anywhere along this relationship we can take advantage of? Well, there has to be. Because one is an exponential and the other is a polynomial, there's going to be some point of tradeoff between the beginning, where each point of disgrace is worth tons of EE and no power, and the end, where each point is worth almost no EE and increasingly large portions of power.

The quantity we want to track here is the relative power point drop per EE saved at any given disgrace, and that's just the ratio of the two functions above. By taking the derivative we can analyze how this relationship changes over the disgrace, and we see something interesting

View attachment 2521238

There's an inflection point right around 70 (specifically at 71.2) where the next point of power you spend is worth less total EE than the point before it. This is pretty useful, though it's not quite ready to be a final result due to some missing factors. There's also another point of interest in this function's derivative

View attachment 2521268

Here we can see the crossing we already identified, but we can also note an inflection point around 56.7 where the second derivative of EE/power begins to drop. Or in simpler terms, the point where power/EE is still growing, but its growth has begun to slow. You can keep taking derivatives and finding inflections forever, since this is an exponential (next one is at 42.3) but they become increasingly less meaningful.

Step 4, get breakpoints

We have a bunch of interesting numbers but they aren't quite ready to use in the game. For starters, disgrace is an integer and our values are decimals. More importantly, we need to account for the fact that the EE cost rounds up. If we pick a disgrace value that costs 12.1 EE, we'll lose 0.9 EE to rounding and get absolutely nothing from it. This isn't as big a deal if you have a large EE cost, but the smaller your costs get the more these losses are worth. These are easy enough to find with trial and error, you just have to search around and pick one.

• 70.1 -> 68 (8.97 EE)
• 56.7 -> 58 (17.95 EE)
• 42.3 -> 43 (50.77 EE

Step 5, summarize results.

If you want a low power chosen, try a disgrace of 68 for a cost of 9 EE and a strength of 64%. If you go any higher than that you're losing more raw power than you save in costs, so you better have some trick up your sleeve that makes power not matter like stacking BS amounts of buffs.

If you want someone who can hit harder than a low power chosen on a budget, try 58 D, 18 EE, 84% chosen. They cost twice as much for about a 30% power boost from the budget model, which could be the difference between getting a break and not.

If you want something you can throw in towards the high end while you're still trying to get those T3/T4 breaks, try a 43 D, 51 EE, 114% chosen. It's a positive power multiplier at a cost that might make you wonder why you don't just bring a commander that can grab them out of the air, but things like detonations and superior chosen can make forsaken shine where commanders can't. Plus you have to research them and this could get you going quicker.

Or if you want to use any of their T4 break abilities just leave disgrace as low as possible and blow 200 EE like a boss.

This was a very enjoyable read. I'm happy to see people investigating this stuff.

Bug Report: Button to pass time dissappeared after negotiating with 2 chosen one after another within their bedrooms. Neither Imago Quickening or any cheats besides full upgrades (used at start of campain) will bring said button back; effectively putting the war in limbo where neither side can do...anything. Except harassing the other chosen I'm tempting, but that does nothing to remedy the timestop issue.
Save file has 32ish saves, the save in question is named "Flubber Ducky". Rest work fine (so far).
I also use the runtime/.bat executable method to run the game if that's related to anything.

Thank you for posting this save! I thought I had caught all the cases where this could happen, but it looks like I missed one. The game prevents you from passing time when you have Evil Energy that would be wasted because it's tied up in a commander, and it prevents you from buying a commander when a truce is in effect. But the way it prevents you from buying a commander is by removing the button to enter the Demon commander menu - which means that if you already have a commander bought, then you're stuck. This will be fixed in the next version.

Would be nice to see some basic system in place to make it more preventable though, like looking at the portraits that have been pulled and trying to avoid them.

The game does actually prevent the same personality from showing up in two loops in a row (outside of a few edge cases), but the same name doesn't always mean the same personality. In this case, Chosen named Purity always have Innocence highest and Morality next-highest, but Morality can still be Core for one but Significant for the other, in which case it's considered valid to have the one show up immediately after the other. I suppose it would be better to have the second one pick a different name in that case.

Using "Apply chastity" when you approach a chosen crashes the game.

I think I forgot to mention this in my last post, but I've figured out what's causing this bug. It's a problem with custom sex scene actions that don't have a "target." It should be fixed in the next version.

When a twin to your bait shows up, she becomes a twin to ALL your previous acquired Siblings of that family (Only have family relations without mothers/Fathers.) This is of course, um... weird and wrong.

Oops, that's definitely a bug. This one should be fixed in the next version as well.

And lastly, I have a loop 5 fight against both a superior and animalistic chosen (The item offered was effectively +12 EE energy during the first 15 days. How could one refuse?). However, It really sucks to have to fight both for your first outing against a tier 3 chosen, especially because I have not yet fought an animalistic one and unlocking the third tier breaks already seems like a nightmare. Can we maybe have enforced single tier 3 chosen for loop 5? Granted, the exchange for that is only dealing with 190% trauma resolution as the only loop modifier, but still that's probably gonna get rough, considering I barely managed a full party break in the previous loop against 1 superior chosen on day 38, the last break during the final battle.

Thanks for the feedback. Rather than changing the logic for how the later Chosen species show up, it sounds like the difficulty added by the usual loop modifiers might just not match up well with how difficult the equivalent Chosen species are. Ideally, the loop should be the same overall difficulty regardless of whether it rolls a Superior Chosen or adds more difficulty modifiers instead.

Anyway, really enjoying this game, would wish for a proper easy mode that is, in terms of difficulty, above cheat and below normal. (Maybe increased Influence for loop and later first arrival of Tier 2 and 3 chosen? Dunno.)

My long-term plan is to add a sort of Slay-the-Spire-esque Ascension system to campaign mode. The Ascension 0 equivalent will probably be easier than the current campaign mode.

Also, what I am saying with the families is, in terms of realism, having 20 children, besides being an absolute nightmare in terms of possible health issues, the stress of raising them and the fact that each child is about the monetary value of an house in terms of money needed to be spent to get them to adulthood, there is also the issue of Menopause of the theoretical mother. I mean, I am far from being an expert in these matters, but getting 20 children in 20 consecutive years just doesn't sound healthy to me. Maybe if there are some foster-siblings in there, it may become more reasonable? I know, not important at the moment, there are more pressing issues, just a thought.

Phew, that's quite a highroll. The game doesn't currently have any upper limit to the number of siblings, but it's roughly a 1% chance to get a group of 20 of them. I suppose it might make sense to add an upper limit. But at the same time, there's a bunch of supernatural weirdness happening just offscreen in the Corrupted Saviors universe, so it's not out of the question that the mother would have some sort of immortality (even before becoming Chosen) or hyperfertility or something. Maybe it wouldn't break immersion so much if the game flagged this kind of highroll and generated some sort of explanation that gets mentioned in her profile.

I just found the psychometer after you mentioned it, currently trying to figure out how it interacts with rampaging chosen. Anyone know? It only takes 100 EE to send them out even if you have more banked, but does their punisher multiplier scale all the way up to a 0 disgrace forsaken?

Trying to figure out if having it means their Disgrace basically becomes irrelevant once you can hit the 100EE limit before I decide if I want to try the headache that is keeping one around.

It's actually an interesting way if I'm understanding it correctly. the multiplier seems to rely on the forsaken's reputation strength, which is for some reason higher even with two forsaken with the exact same disgrace of 21%

Spoiler: The two forsaken in question

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: Calamity

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Spoiler: Axiom

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

After some testing, I think the psychometer actually nerfs a rampancy forsaken's punisher effect multiplier. (but not really?)
I'm experimenting with this in cheat mode and created another save without items, gave myself 2000 EE and the reputation strength was even higher than with the psychometer, about 190% or whatever, something noticeably higher.

around 3000 EE gave the full 200% reputation strength I believe, which in turn gave the max amount of the punisher multiplier.

If I had to guess a reason, it could possibly be because a rampancy forsaken reputation strength has a slightly different scale than normal forsaken?

Also on the other end of this EE spectrum, rampancy forsaken with higher disgrace had a lower reputation strength with 100 EE + psychometer compared to other rampancy forsaken with lower disgrace (makes sense)

tl;dr: With the psychometer rampancy forsaken actually are better at being punishers and disgrace is still important to consider for them at the same time

It looks like Axiom doesn't have the Rampancy trait, so that's why you're seeing the discrepancy there. The Broken Psychometer should cause Rampant Forsaken to behave just as if you've spent all your Evil Energy on them, with the only difference being that it only actually costs you 100EE. If it's not behaving that way, then it's a bug.

1. Picking which save overwrite ability would probably (considering atleast my personal habits) cut down on save bloat from abandoned saves.

This is planned. The save system was one of the first parts of the game I coded, and it hasn't aged well.

2. Allowing the option in campain cheats to turn on/off ramping campain difficulty could help with immersion and experimentation (outside of head meet wall method) against various difficulty modes. While the customize feature does allow for custom scenarios, (I think) it doesn't account for any potential previous progress like achievements and Forsaken.

Being able to turn the loop modifiers back on in cheat mode is an interesting idea. I'll put it on my list of things to implement.

3. Picking a specific set of chosen to fight when starting campain mode. This can increase immersion in that the demons choose their initial foothold with care and gets rid of restarting the campain to reroll chosen (Hi). Standard chosen team could be random entries (default game behavior), and players could input chosen from the custom chosen list set to be included in the campain.

This makes sense. As with letting players have their pick of starting item, anything that can be accomplished by savescumming should be made into a feature just for the sake of QoL.

4. Auto save slot that saves at the beginning of the day before the player does anything. This is primarily to workaround the negotiation bug I've reported and have been fighting with, but it will also allow players to undo mistakes without losing several in game days due to poor saving habits (Hi again :-D). ...possibly several spanning the past 3 days to increase margin for player error. Also, if this is implemented with suggestion 1, I suggest making these slots unsaveable by the player to prevent overwrites defeating the point of said autosaves.

This is also planned.

5. Quality of Life adjustment and not an important one, but color coding the personality overview (shown as [X] [X] [/] [T4] diagram) so that m is green to denote breaking the trait first will cause friendships to form, and c as red to denote rivalries if that trait is broken first. tl;dr color code the m and c labels to comunicate which ones cause which relationship event type. This would be nice in that it saves brain power and prevents players from causing the wrong event type to occur due to them confusing break order.

I'm worried that this has the potential to get confusing. The game already uses Blue=Core, Green=Significant, Red=Minor as color coding for Chosen's speech color depending on Morality Vulnerability. But I agree that something could be done to make it more clear - relationship mechanics seem to be one of the things that players most often develop misconceptions about.

Also a question, is there an easy way to wipe out all my saves WHILE preserving my current run?.......is it just deleting the .sav file with the game open then saving again? .-.

Currently, that's the only way. I suppose it might make sense to add an in-game option when I do the save system refactor.

Second question, is anyone having their game freeze whenever they try to train a forsaken. Cause I can't use any training on a forsaken without the game breaking (I can scroll through text log but that's bout it). Should I post the offending saves and point out which they are?
(So I don't have to search through 20 saves if I do post. CamCheat 2-whatever vs Phantom Silver Royal is the save I'm talking about future me.)

It's definitely appreciated if you post the save. Otherwise, there's no way for me to know what's causing the problem.

Third question, if I install additional image packs. Will they eventually show up in random generation or will I have to change chosen images to the desired pack?

The Chosen names that can show up randomly aren't affected by the contents of your portrait folder. However, some packs just replace the existing names rather than adding new ones, and the packs that add new names often come with rosters of custom Chosen who use the new names.

Question 4: Are t3/t4 breaks along the relevant tracks allowed for distortion plans? I had an aversion distortion break after breaking the chosen's morality t3. Was able to reinstate the distortion plan, but it did reset the progress I had made on it (6 turn trigger went back to 10).

It shouldn't be resetting your progress - if you upload a save from right before that happens, I can take a look at it.

I think I'm too far in atm because if I try to surround them, they rampage all the time. At this point, I end up keeping them captured and focusing on the other two chosen haha.

And as I say that, I managed to surround them!

(so many edits) I was curious about something, I have a few chosen as futas and was wondering in the future when they're corrupted enough but not quite forsaken if it's possible they can impregnate the other chosen? Also curious if thralls can impregnate them or if it's only the demon lord - that'd be interesting.

Bug I've noticed - If you are approaching chosen, do not use chasity or else the whole game freezes up and you have to close it.

The only way for Chosen to be impregnated is through actions that cause Total Morality Break. It's possible that this will change someday, but it'd require writing an alternative flavor for Total Morality Break first.

It is, however, possible for Chosen to impregnate one of the Forsaken or even a female Demon Lord.

Found a bug, when I try to Drain Soul on this undead forsaken Ghoul, the button depresses but the action doesn't complete. It might be related to her dissociative identity; I switched her over to tempted to pick up the punisher action before reverting her to pure to wipe the extra expertise and then back to base with the new ability.

Edit: It turns out I can't do a lot of training types, not just Drain Soul.

Anyone know of a fix or do I just need to reload an earlier save and never do that?

Thanks for uploading this save. It looks like Ghoul is in a bugged state because of an error I made in coding the "Virginal State" option when using Shape Memories, and this causes a crash whenever her Obedience goes above 33. This will be fixed in the next version, but in the meantime, you can reverse the bugged state by Meeting with her for a custom sex scene and using any Demon Lord body. Afterward, I've confirmed that you'll be able to train her just fine.

 

[Nemo de Nemo]

It's definitely appreciated if you post the save. Otherwise, there's no way for me to know what's causing the problem.

Here's the save where it's in effect. Any CamCheat save past the first loop has this problem (same game and all) but I made a specific called Training BugTest with 6 forsaken rolled back to day 40 with cheats........And I just tested my one regular (non image pack) Forsaken and it worked fine. From here I assume that something about custom chosen that were user made isn't playing nice with the system. For convenience since I rename all my chosen, Wraith is the only Forsaken the game custom generated for me. The other 5 Forsaken are from Chekhovs_Ghost's Suntorn Dawn pack.

 

[Celerarity]

Thanks! That fixed it.

btw I've been using stable diffusion and did some messing around with openart. I made a superior forsaken version of Whisper from the pack (not using novelAI, so it looks a little different but she's a forsaken so that's fine by me). It's one expansion for one character so it's not a must-grab, but it's also free content so I figured I'd upload for people to grab it if they wanted.

 

[kalookalee]

Heya, currently 7 days into my second playthrough of the game, but I was wondering if there's a way to save my first run.
Unusual of me when playing games but I didn't make multiple separate save files, so the first playthrough is saved on day 49, at which point I realised I may have messed up cause of the final battle. What I want to know is if it would be possible to continue from here at all. I figured out how to get 4/4 and 3/4 morality breaks for 2/3 Chosens but (despite being fun to watch) it is still a loss. Although I used Sodomise on Prophet and Insemenize on Calamity as opposed to 2 each so I'll try using two defilers together next time.

 

[Kalloi]

Heya, currently 7 days into my second playthrough of the game, but I was wondering if there's a way to save my first run.
Unusual of me when playing games but I didn't make multiple separate save files, so the first playthrough is saved on day 49, at which point I realised I may have messed up cause of the final battle. What I want to know is if it would be possible to continue from here at all. I figured out how to get 4/4 and 3/4 morality breaks for 2/3 Chosens but (despite being fun to watch) it is still a loss. Although I used Sodomise on Prophet and Insemenize on Calamity as opposed to 2 each so I'll try using two defilers together next time.

I think you may have uploaded the wrong save? The only one who's been sodomized and no one on the team was inseminated.
Besides that, if I'm understanding correctly you have t4 morality breaks on 2 out of three chosen,

If you purchased one of the "+" upgrades like Attack + then you can damage the chosen in the final battle. Besides distortions of course. If you haven't purchased on of those upgrades then you wouldn't be able to win the final battle even if you have broken the tier 4 vulnerabilities. The best advice I can give is to export your team and restart the campaign with them. That way you know what works against them.
This is assuming that you accidentally uploaded the wrong save of course. If you didn't then. . . it would be best to get to know the breaks and systems a bit more, there are a lot of people here willing to answer any questions you may have

 

[kalookalee]

I think you may have uploaded the wrong save? The only one who's been sodomized and no one on the team was inseminated.
Besides that, if I'm understanding correctly you have t4 morality breaks on 2 out of three chosen,

If you purchased one of the "+" upgrades like Attack + then you can damage the chosen in the final battle. Besides distortions of course. If you haven't purchased on of those upgrades then you wouldn't be able to win the final battle even if you have broken the tier 4 vulnerabilities. The best advice I can give is to export your team and restart the campaign with them. That way you know what works against them.
This is assuming that you accidentally uploaded the wrong save of course. If you didn't then. . . it would be best to get to know the breaks and systems a bit more, there are a lot of people here willing to answer any questions you may have

Yeah I worded that wrong, I meant I figured out how to do it when I was retrying the fight, but yeah bit late for that

Defos will export the team though, grown attached to them (Demon Lords can have feelings too!)

Thanks, and speaking of questions, how does one export the team?

 

[Kalloi]

Yeah I worded that wrong, I meant I figured out how to do it when I was retrying the fight, but yeah bit late for that

Defos will export the team though, grown attached to them (Demon Lords can have feelings too!)

Thanks, and speaking of questions, how does one export the team?

lol no worries the terminology can be a bit confusing at first

And for exporting teams you can two do things, first is to go to data-->export on your current save file, the game will create a save with that team on day 1 for you.
the other way is to go to the main menu and pick "load team" then just pick the save with your team and they will be added as custom chosen to your campaign. doing it that will way will mean every time you start a campaign you will go against those 3 since custom chosen are prioritized to show up first in a campaign. Good for fresh saves, hope things go better for you this run!

 

[Contemplative Yearning]

btw I've been using stable diffusion and did some messing around with openart. I made a superior forsaken version of Whisper from the pack (not using novelAI, so it looks a little different but she's a forsaken so that's fine by me). It's one expansion for one character so it's not a must-grab, but it's also free content so I figured I'd upload for people to grab it if they wanted.

Hey, this is great! Do you mind if I add it to Patience proper? I can credit you if you'd like.

 

[Celerarity]

Hey, this is great! Do you mind if I add it to Patience proper? I can credit you if you'd like.

Hell yeah, go for it. Credit or not it's fine by me. I could probably get you another girl's, or some civilians for forsaken whisper if you want.

Currently limited by the amount of free trial credits openart gives, but I can make a new discord account and use that to sign in with them to get more :3

Here's the full res archive link if you need it.

You must be registered to see the links

 

[Celerarity]

Here's civilian superior forsaken whisper too

 

[Belgaz]

in other news, nowthatimnothavingaslightcaseofseriousbraindamage hope you love your work, dev and kalloi, i like the effort and passion from you both! ;^)

 

[PaulRock]

Guys, I need help - I played a similar game with the same interface and mechanics, but I can't remember what it's called, there is some kind of war with the kingdoms, it's the same text, with character creation at the beginning, it's turn-based...

 

[dekeche]

Guys, I need help - I played a similar game with the same interface and mechanics, but I can't remember what it's called, there is some kind of war with the kingdoms, it's the same text, with character creation at the beginning, it's turn-based...

By any chance, are you thinking of EratohoK? I know there's a few posts at the front of the thread comparing this to that. Never played it though, and it doesn't look that similar.

 

[Celerarity]

Here, made a superior forsaken civilian and regular for Prayer as well. Got a little more adventurous with the poses, and used some slutty nun-habit like clothes for her civilian outfit owing to her namesake

 

[Ragsmu]

Here, made a superior forsaken civilian and regular for Prayer as well. Got a little more adventurous with the poses, and used some slutty nun-habit like clothes for her civilian outfit owing to her namesake

View attachment 2532094

if you doing thing, preferably post them in a batch, for ease of access i would say

 

[Celerarity]

I think they'll wind up just getting integrated into contemplative yearning's pack, so they'll all be in there

 

[Ragsmu]

I think they'll wind up just getting integrated into contemplative yearning's pack, so they'll all be in there

WEll, one who's going be integrating them also have better things to do than monitor 10 pages of discussion to find all the links. i mean you can do whatever, just saying what i think is the best for everyone's convenience.

 

[Celerarity]

Fortunately they're all on one page, so we don't have to worry about that.

 

[Ragsmu]

Fortunately they're all on one page, so we don't have to worry about that.

For now, since for all i know you might be planning making 20 more. hence the warning that if you are, just wait till all are done and post in one post =)

 

[Celerarity]

I'm definitely not going to make one for all the characters. It's a significant amount of time and work for each one, not counting the hassles of account management.