I've said on multiple occasions that this game is excellent but the gameplay is extremely puzzle-like. The addition of some mechanics to control the battle (like spending Energy mid-battle to summon more demons/kidnapping more humans, an upgrade to completely stop humans fleeing without the chosen personally evacuating them, some kind of skill that allows us to put a Chosen down for the rest of the battle) would improve gameplay greatly.
Java Corrupted Saviors [Release 54] [CSDev]
Ah! Okay, that explains it a lot better, thank you. That matches up with what I was seeing. And thanks for the links, I could really use some help with that stuff (given that it took me until day 23 to break all 3 of those 1k damage steps).
Yeah, I agree on the tooltip being inaccurate, but thank you for the tip! I'll get back into it and see if I can actually get the vulnerability broken.
I'm not sure if more battle control to stall out individual battles is entirely necessary since part of the core gameplay strategy is making the most use of what limited battle duration each day has. The more damage you do, the more and longer surrounds you get, the longer a battle lasts and the more rewards you might get. Doing this efficiently on the micro scale gives you more time on the macro scale to accomplish your goals, and the final battle effectively tests both at once; how much your efficient macro has affected the chosen, and how many upgrades you've accrued, as well as the micro scale; for example defeating all 3 Unbreakable Friends even with all t4s requires very knowing and deliberate turn management, or at least one will quickly be killed or escape.
I think multiple use (3+) commanders already fulfill this role well enough in the middle game anyways; especially with the Relentless / Flight upgrade that lets you grab flying chosen; if you are absolutely desperate to extend a battle or ensure they stay locked down, you can spend EE to give yourself the security of a third, fourth, or even fifth flying grab to make sure you get a break that day. And if you don't need the insurance, you're playing efficiently and can keep that EE for faster upgrades.
I found that in Normal mode, if you're playing well and not holding back on breaks you can easily buy a medium-high strength commander every single day past day 20 or so and still have full upgrades with well before the final battle, so it's likely doable even on hard with more frugal spending.
I am however of the opinion as many others are that Suppressors are enormously niche and difficult to use on their own without at least versatility or perfection, and are simply a highly visible trap option for new players early in the game. They are very easily accessed, promise to be upgrades, are required for progression, and sound very appealing, but are much harder to use and more specialized than the normal commander. Doubly so because before Reality Sealing, an Ambushing Suppressor leaves you with 2 to 4 turns of fruitless "Do Nothing" before the next girl arrives. You might get 1 free turn of overlap you wouldn't have had to Attack the new girl, but you still waste a few, and a 5 turn basic or a 4 turn with instant orders already has that turn free, and is unoccupied to Capture her to boot! Even some kind of warning or adjustment to the tooltips to emphasize their niche use would be helpful.
Even so, there's just quite limited value to causing only one type of circumstance in the early game when ramping up damage requires compounding multipliers from several stats in concert, and 2 of the 4 circumstances will instantly negate themself with Trauma reduction. Injury strikes me as the one most potentially useful, since it's the only circumstance that potentially compounds upon itself positively rather than immediately neutering itself and others to x1/2 or x0 damage by inducing high trauma. Injury is also doubly the strongest circumstance stat since Pain is the only opening that can easily be stacked to achieve an unconditional followup Surround; Fear is also okay but requires you to burn turns attack target 2 or a second capture, but Disgust won't get a second early surround because it's rounded down from half of 3 to a max of 1, and Shame can't be the sole opening.
I wonder if a possible simple solution to this is to make Suppressor commanders deal *only* their circumstance damage, but not trauma? Or at least much less or none of the trauma of the same type as their circumstance? This could allow you to more selectively target earlier circumstance breaks or damage multipliers, without instantly falling off, and providing less benefit to subsequent grabs than normal commanders. I'm not sure how some cases would be described in narrative though, since it seems quite odd to be causing Injury without any Pain, or Exposure without Shame etc. Perhaps anesthetic blades?
As an aside to this, I'm hope / imagine that future alternate corruption paths might change the relative strength or relationships of Circumstance and Trauma multipliers, so that perhaps Pleasure or Exposure could increase other Circumstances in order to reduce reliance on Injury and Hate to break vulnerabilities. It's certainly possible but extremely unintuitive and inefficient to break t3-4 expo / pleasure without causing at least t2 injury, hate, or both.
I appreciate the intent of showing "Grind / Caress" etc seeing as those are the actions the resulting tactic works against, but unless I'm mistaken about how the break mechanics work and which tactics are used accordingly, it would probably be more clear to new players to just write "Reach 10k ___". I'd say something like "Put at risk of 10k" or "Be about to cause 10k" but im unsure if the details are confusing here; I think clueless players would be more willing to understand getting the break early if they thought they needed to exceed 10k already dealt than knowing it's about incoming DPS.
Unrelated, I ran into two curious situations with multiple gender shifts enabled; I had Male > Female on Inseminate, and Female > Futa enabled. My male character broke his T3 Innocence before I broke his T2 Morality, so he didn't shift, and then was locked out of shifting to Futa for the rest of the game since the shift happens on the "First' fantasize / innocence break, and not again. Is this intended, or is it necessary because the shift is calculated on the break? Would it be possible to recheck the shift on subsequent uses of Fantasize?
Secondly, while I had these settings on the friendship innocence break scene afterwards had the other character (Who started female and had since become Futa) refer to relating to having "lost her masculinity", which would be a perfectly fine line if she had started male, but since she'd started female and currently had a penis, was utterly confusing.
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You started alright but went nuts and completely missed my point. The complaint was precisely about how we have little control over each battle and have to follow the optimal formula until things happen and the level increases, with the strategy changing slightly once we get to the last level of vulnerabilities. That's a bad thing. After you figure out the order of action, it doesn't change. Every battle follows the same order of attacks, maybe focusing on a different chosen as you spread the corruption to the whole team.
By making each battle more manageable we'd be able to play around with different strategies, try different combinations and, overall, enjoy the content more, since the rush can be temporarily held back.
Fair, I did ramble off onto a tangent but it was something I wanted to discuss regardless about the game's broader design. I still stand by my point that even if what you want is to provide more variety and shake up monotony, than I think that adding more tools without adding appropriate challenges first is probably a mistake. There's already a couple things that shake up the optimal order slightly at breaks 1 and 3 with Tactics and Adaptations; Slaughter, Fantasize, Detonate etc force you to adapt to not rely so much on captures, slow things down and punish downtime unsurrounded, though the way the game works you also need to force these anyways.
I think if we had even more control over what happened in each round or in each battle, things would get stale even faster because any problems that arose would be controlled viciously be the player back into their status quo and optimal formula. If you want more different types of ways to act, you have to add more provocations or more reactions first.
I think this is something that mayyy be involved with Forsaken in combat, or in added support for alternate corruption paths though. You can already shake up current gameplay and break the meta / optimal rotation just by holding back on some breaks; it's quite difficult to avoid breaking hate / inju and still getting high plea / expo for eg, but I'll accept that right now you basically change your strategy slightly and then just repeat that instead.
But now that the core baseline gameplay has been established from start to finish more things can come in to shake it up. I just think the shake-ups need to be added before or concurrently with the solutions, or you end up putting the cart before the horse.
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Agree, remember that the current game mode is technically not a "story" mode, is just like a placeholder, and that there are 2 battle types: the normal battle and the final battle.
With those points, we could say that the cycle of 'fight>buy upgrades>repeat' could change, adding other considerations. For all we know, it could be anything, like a bigger pool of chosen that get selected for each battle (7 in total 3 each battle), if the campaign is something that uses something like territorial conquest or domination it could add some defense battle, or having more than 3 chosen in a battle.
This would require some modifications to the friendship system, but I think is posible.
If you want extra control to each battle, it could come from some parts added from the story mode (naturally, it should also give the chosen extra tools to fight you with). On that note, if you want more options against them without giving them anything extra it would make it easier in a bad way (IMO).
I'm pretty sure that these things are going to be addressed in some way, shape, or form. After all, the battles have changed a lot since earlier versions, the future addition of the forsaken in battle, and the dev already said that the 'story' mode will have more things.
TL;DR: the core is basically done (or completely, if we only talk about the battles), it already has some things that show that it can be added more, but is not the current focus, as there others system that needs to be created/updated.
Would it be possible for cheats in a future version having the option to change the Chosens' relationships with eachother? I try to get them to all be friends but I just don't have the strategy down yet.
On another note, how many post-battle scenes are their excluding variations based on relationship values?
On another note, how many post-battle scenes are their excluding variations based on relationship values?
If you are trying to get all the chosen to be friendly towards each other you just need to focus on breaking there minor vulnerabilities first, as the chosen's relationship improves if when a major vulnerability is broken the chosen with the equivalent minor vulnerability has already been broken. Otherwise there relationship deteriorates.
Because of this it is generally a fair bit easier to have all the chosen as friends than the reverse as its far easier to break the minor vulnerabilities than to deliberately avoid them.
- Oct 20, 2017
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- Oct 14, 2020
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While rereading the thread, I realized that my reply to this apparently got pasted over. So, I'll answer it here now: some passages have verbose descriptions written for the default cosmetic traits that Chosen can be generated with. These passages check for whether the trait's text matches one of the defaults, and if no match is found, then a generic description is printed. If your custom traits happen to match one of the defaults, then they'll get the full verbose description.
It's a bit of a mess right now, and I plan on reworking the system soon in order to make it convenient to get whichever verbose descriptions you want.
This was exactly the issue, thanks for tracking it down. It's fixed in the current release.
I didn't include it in the changelog because it's such a minor change, but I agree with you that this is a better way to handle it. It's been changed in the current release.
I'm barely qualified to give tech support for my own game, let alone someone else's. You'll probably have more luck asking in the eragames thread on prolikewoah.
This was a good reminder to clarify the vulnerability tips. The current release should be a bit more clear.
I'm reluctant to change this, because giving the shift only one opportunity to trigger allows players to "strategize" (for lack of a better word) in order to shift some Chosen but leave others unchanged without toggling the settings. In this particular case, though, it seems like it's too easy to lock yourself out of a result you want by accident, so maybe it should be adjusted.
This one was a bug related to the fact that fem-to-futa shifting was a later addition. It's fixed in the current release.
My main worry is that if more tools are added on their own, then exploiting those tools to the fullest will become the new optimal formula. It's true that the game can currently get monotonous unless you're deliberately hindering yourself with a challenge run, but rewards can be added to make those challenge runs into something that most players actually want to do.
There's probably some room for mechanics that genuinely shake up the formula, but they'd have to be something that you can't do over and over again. For example, some battles could have special conditions (like an aphrodisiac haze that causes PLEA to multiply circumstances as well, or one where the Demons are supercharged and can inflict circumstances with basic attacks). I'm also considering giving the Forsaken powerful super moves which can only be used once per loop.
I'll add this to my list of cheats to implement.
I noticed right away, and it feels much more intuitive and snappy. Thanks!
Just as well; I agree that strategizing so that you can shift some but not others is a valid result on it's own, I was just curious about it. It really only happened because I was specifically trying to delay my male > fem shift in order to get more Dignity breaks, but the silly boy started Fantasizing on his own and skipped the step. I think in most normal play it's not a problem and gives you more control, and the options are clear on how it works. I don't think it especially needs to be changed at all, but if so it's hardly a priority.
I think adding rewards to the challenge runs is the clear answer too, and single use (or at least conditional / expensive) power moves also seem like a good idea to allow you to make bold leaps towards those specific goals to put you out ahead of the curve for the trauma types you want and not worry so much about reaching the ones you don't before them.
I like these ideas quite a bit, but I'm also still fond of the idea you proposed earlier where avoiding using Rape and/or Torture in favour of Pleasure and Exposure would eventually cause a "betrayal" path of some type. It'd provide a great way to allow you to use the normal systems for the first part of the game (breaks 0-2) and then help you more specifically tailor the Corrupting experience for the endgame of breaks 3 and 4. Perhaps a powerful Forsaken or special-use demon commander would be necessary to trigger this?
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My immediate first thought for this is a solely PLEA-spec'd Forsaken being able to send a chosen to the Garden of Lilies. Similar to what the hypnosis commander does but giving the Chosen a soft and fluffy lesdom experience (that is, of course, not even remotely soft or fluffy). Could even lead into some "onee-sama" interactions once they get turned into a Forsaken.
Can someone explain training to me? It seems no matter what I do I can't change a Forsaken's hostility/deviency/obedience/disgrace values.
Has anyone figured out how to edit your saves to make a "super forsaken"? I have tried notepad++ and hex editing but I got nothing so far.
My understanding is that it's still in teaser form. It allows you to play around with assorted Forsaken you've captured, but the changes aren't saved due to the system for using forsaken as commanders/instead of a commanders is still being built. Basically the changes being discarded lets you poke at the upcoming system without screwing your characters up.
Havn't been playing that long, and it's been a bit since I paid much attention to the tips the game offers, but I think one of them suggests that suppressors do exactly that (isn't being cooperative about appearing currently, although I may just be missing it). It definitely had me thinking that's what suppressors did at first though, and even after a half year I'm not entirely sure what they actually do aside from providing single focus circumstance damage (something to do with the T3->4 chosen abilities, doesn't seem to block or limit them in any way I've observed)
Not the whole story here; the changes do actually apply and can be subsequently used in battle, but there's just very few training options currently, so it's very difficult to increase values much higher than 30%, meaning you can really only train Forsaken that are nearly unbroken, or generated fresh via the testing tool in the Forsaken menu.
There are two potential goals of Training; changing a Forsaken's Fighting Style (What Circumstance damage(s) they do in combat and how much) and increasing their Corruption stats (which affect the costs and benefits of being used to fight or train)
To change Fighting style, all you have to do is use training methods that correspond to the damage you want them to deal in order to increase their Expertise; if you want a Forsaken to do Hate damage, you train Hostility. Each instance of training gives Expertise to the corresponding Circumstance, and you get bonus if a different Expertise is already very high, even converting Expertise in the opposing stats to compensate and help you re-spec well-trained Forsaken quickly.
When their Expertise in one or more stats gets high enough to overshadow the remaining stats, and are also close to each other in value, you'll get an event pop-up telling you and they'll change their style to deal those damage types, and they'll gain a small damage multiplier to each damage type for higher Expertise.
If you want to Increase Corruption, you have to overlap multiple different training methods to increase the Training Intensity of the Corruption stat you want to change. The total intensity starts at the value of the most intense method you pick, and goes up 5 for each extra. (if you want to raise Hostility, and you choose two methods with Hostility 20% and Hostility 15%, the total Hostility will be 25% regardless of which order you pick them in)
Forsaken won't want to consent to actions that are too intense, but are more likely to do them willingly if they have high Obedience or they are familiar with it (they've done the training before), but can always be forced into training by using at least one action that increase Obedience.
If this total Training Intensity for a given Corruption is equal to or greater than the Forsaken's current Corruption + Half of their Deviancy, they will gain Corruption and the stat will permanently increase by a small amount. They also gain an equivalent amount of Obedience if you forced it on them.
There's a few more subtle complications to this system; like each training action having a positive and negative to subsequent actions in the same session, but it's difficult to make much use of these with the limited set of training, and this covers the basics of how it works. It'll become much easier to do once we can pick multiple higher level options that target the same Corruption, as they'll stack up much faster that way. This also creates various strategies for training; high Deviancy Forsaken could train hard and gain a lot of Expertise without raising their corruption, high Obedience forsaken could be trained extremely intensely to high corruption, etc.Currently Suppressors deal 1 circumstance, and all 4 types of Trauma. To a certain degree, you do want to cause Trauma anyways since that's going to create new openings for you to continue dealing Circumstance damage (and also raise angst to increase damage and EE gain), but the issue lies more in the fact that while each circumstance type also raises their corresponding trauma, that Trauma also reduces the circumstance that just increased it.
eg; Hate 2 gives 2x Circumstance, but also 4x Fear, and each level of Fear causes 1/2 Hate. Given even relatively equal damage values, Fear will rapidly eclipse Hate and you'll do little to no damage in Hate, but also pick up 1-2 levels of Disgust, Pain, and Shame, now dealing x2 / 4 = 1/2 damage, reducing all further attempts to deal Circumstance of any kind to them. The outlier is Injury, since it's multiplier to itself by increasing circumstance is higher than its multiplier to Pain (x4 and x2), so it gets "ahead of the curve" and allows you to start building higher numbers.
Which is to say; an Ambush with a Suppressor that deals most damage types other than Injury are not only less effective than general commanders, they are often even detrimental. Expo can also be okay if the duration is quite long and the other chosen are Friends; you can set up bouncing Expo damage multipliers between them to compensate, but because of the opening requirement quirks, it becomes hard to generate a second opening on the same Chosen and you can sometimes be left dealing too little damage to create any new openings for the rest of the fight. Hate and Pleasure suppressors very quickly run themselves into x0 circumstance without actually dealing much first, and need a lot of Expo done to another Chosen to try and recover from that state.
I think the more potentially strategically valuable way to use Suppressors is with Patience after T1 breaks. If you are trying to get 1 specific type of damage into a T2 or T3 break zone without raising the others too much. It lets you get around the Tactics damage reduction for dealing only 1 damage type without resorting to Defilers, but it's only going to work in quick bursts with the proper support, or the multiplication is going to get out of hand. Even still though, I think a generic commander is still more useful in most cases, since in the same amount of turns you can start with some Injury and Hate to get the ball rolling, and once you've got multipliers going you can move to the stats you are trying to increase.
3 turns of Plea suppressor might result in something like, 250 | 500 | 625 Pleasure. (x1 x1 x1/2)
3 turns of a basic commander could be more like Injury 100 | Injury 500 Hate 400 | Injury 1300 Hate 1200 Pleasure 800. (x1 x4 x8)
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- Oct 14, 2020
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Fortunately, the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive. Alternative corruption paths can provide multiple possible goals, and limited factors which mix up the usual battle formula can enable multiple viable strategies to achieve those goals.
Regarding how to trigger the alternative corruption paths, I'm leaning toward having it be possible to trigger them without needing to acquire any specific trait or resource, so that you could theoretically get there through normal play (although it'd be unlikely). This will probably mean something like reaching the "lategame" (maybe measured in ANGST value) without breaking any relevant vulnerabilities or reaching a certain trauma value.
Well, it could actually be soft and fluffy depending on the personality of the Forsaken in question. For this update, I almost added a flat negative relationship modifier for any Forsaken who were attacked by senior Forsaken during their time as Chosen, but I do prefer the idea of having that relationship modifier depend on what exactly the Forsaken did to the former Chosen.
Nice summary, all of this information is accurate.
I've also made a post on the blog regarding the direction of the next several updates. I'm interested in hearing feedback, whether here or on the blog itself.
That seems reasonable. If it's somewhere in the same angst categories as the first, or perhaps even second T3 breaks. Would it be no T1 breaks or no T2s? T2 seems like the natural spot since that's the first break you have to go for specifically, and involves the most significant and specific consequences for the chosen. It's tough to avoid T1s.
Thanks! I was mostly paraphrasing your guide in the zip, and it did take me a second to figure out how it works in practice, but once I did everything clicked into place, and I understand how it'll work with more actions and later campaign integration much better.
As far as priorities, I've pretty much made my piece several times here that I think Alternate Corruption Paths are very dear to my heart, so that's top of my priorities, but I think expanded abilitiesfor Forsaken is quite important too, especially with the ways these two can intermingle. I think fleshing out and amping up the current gameplay loop with using Forsaken as customized tools to fit the situation, providing the method and the reasons to use specific corruption paths is the next big thing to elevate the game as a whole. Special battle conditions would be my third choice, as they play into these two systems too and add tactical depth and variety.
I do love all your other ideas for deeper customization, relationships, displaying fetishes, etc, but I think the game's writing on that level is already great and for my money I'd prefer the skeleton and meat of the game to be enhanced first with frills coming after. Half of these mechanical features are going to necessitate new fluff writing in the first place regardless, so unless you plan on making fundamental changes to the way dialogue is parsed that you'd need to anticipate, it wouldn't get in the way. A balance of a little customization mixed in with new mechanics is probably the way to go.
I've been keeping an eye in this game but i just struggle going in a pure text game. Here's hoping someone makes an "image pack" with the new feature so i can picture what's going on a bit easier.
