It definitely wasn't a great scene on its own merits, I didn't like it. Tonally way out of wack with how loss scenes are normally handled.
But the idea that it was written purely to spite Wsan is specifically what I wanted to contest.
Others Corruption of Champions II [v0.7.15] [Savin/Salamander Studios]
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But the idea that it was written purely to spite Wsan is specifically what I wanted to contest.
If this is the case then does justify the scene significantly more as Brienne would have had a more niche audience back then so people wouldn't have been as mindful of it as they are now. But even still, if their discord is anything to go by, I wouldn't put a lot of faith in the competency of the Devs.
Also, wasn't the official poll done on their Patreon? I'm not sure how it all works but if it was only the backers allowed to vote then I would definitely take the Polls results with a grain of salt. I'm pretty sure that most of the people that play this game haven't dropped a single dime on it. Also I think that Brienne won by a massive margin in the 4chan Polls, although I'm probably overestimating the size of the 4chan playerbase.
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- Apr 28, 2017
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Unless we're talking back to the future shenanigans, your premise is wrong.
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Not gonna factcheck the poll stuff cause can't be bothered, altough all i've seen had nothing of the sort going on (admiteddly can't point to them either but wasn't official ones), but fact of the matter is, writer who boasted about injecting spite in his writing wrote a spiteful rape scene for the other most popular companion(s) in the game. Which he'd admitted to not liking with that whole 'turning Brint into Brienne is the evilest thing in the game.'
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The 4chan polls had around 200 votes, if I'm reading it right? The Patreon one had about 2500. Bias or not, we're talking a pretty big sample size difference (and 4chan REALLY hates Tobs, so there's a bit of bias there too).
Not really my premise, just one of a bunch of points. But I think I might be mixing the dates of the imp tavern gangbang and the hobgoblin scene, so my bad on the dates.
If I recall, that quote wasn't about him not liking Brienne, it was him basically patting Wsan/the writers on the back for getting players to do something evil.
Which Wsan himself seems to agree with, judging by his comments on the subject.
That being said, I'm pretty sure Tobs has sad he's not a big fan of Brienne before at a different time.
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Fair enough, but again, assuming it were only Backers voting, I'd take it with a grain of salt. Although I suppose it wouldn't matter to the Devs as pleasing a paying audience is better than pleasing a ...well, non-paying audience, which is reasonable.
Also here's the poll, thanks to Kroenen:
Female companion poll (Patreon)
Companion poll (4chan)You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
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- Apr 28, 2017
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It's quite literally your premise. If it's 2020 then your argument about the scene having been written at the beginning of development, and about Brienne having just been introduced in the game, and all that makes a degree of sense. If it's June 2021, then it just doesn't.
Only leaves the poll thing, which like i said in my edit dunno.
He wrote a fucked up rape scene for Wsan's characters without his knowledge. He's not praising him. He's making shit up to fit his narrative. Like, go on the discord, forum or whatever and tell him the foxes are inherently evil and so is helping them because they need to suck souls to survive, and see how fast he slams that take because it's not what he intended.
Similarly, write a rape scene for Kiyoko of the same kind he did for Brint/Brienne and see how happy he'd be about it (commissioned or not). Dude's a hypocrite, as if his avatar wasn't proof enough.
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Not...really?
The moving away from specific companions loss scenes is something Savin has said recently.
The fact that the polls weren't out yet when he wrote it is still true ( the polls and the dates I just posted, they happened in 2021 and 2022).
The fact that Kiyoko is still more popular on said poll is true.
The fact that Davin commissioned it...is probably still true (I'd have to actually look that up to 100% confirm amd I'm not quite that dedicated atm).
The only thing that changes is it was a bit later in development than I thought.
Like i said, Wsan agrees with him. I posted the quote last time this came up, but Wsan mentioned that the only reason it doesn't give corruption points is that the PC has wiggle room to not know what happening...but not the player.
The author is on board with his interpretation.
Whether or not he's a hypocrite isn't really what I'm talking about here...this isn't a general defense of Tobs or anything. I'm not really a fan.
This is just an example of how speculating why the devs do certain things is super shaky and taking said speculation as gospel probably isn't worth it.
- Sep 6, 2019
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I just checked out the artist and I just have to say one thing.
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Well that is some extremely stupid shit and is a bad look either way. You either have them doing it out of spite or they make rapey NTRish content for characters people are going to be attached to because... money I guess?
Regardless of why it was written, it's a shit scene that doesn't belong in the game. The fact that it's also the only scene this fucked up on a lovable and not controversial character is seriously fucking stupid. Test the waters with a minor character first if you actually wanna do that nasty shit.
Then again, this is just a massive display of dev bias. Wouldn't be surprised if "they" tried to do more of these scenes in the first place just because of Savin.
Who is in the scene isn't really the point. Brint or anybody else being in it is just as bad.
Thank you for reminding me people have terrible taste.
Regardless of why it was done, what does it matter? We know it was done behind Wsan's back and was upset about it. That's all that matters.
Speculation on why devs do things doesn't matter at the end of the day. If we're wrong, what changes? Nothing. And if we're right? Absolutely nothing. If nothing else, it's fun to concoct conspiracy theories of the devs doing evil shit and making it seem like an even bigger shit-show than it already is.
Going on a forum about a text-only smut game with an identity crisis and no self awareness is already not worth it but here we are
Yeah, it's definitely more of a CoC1 scene.
Well obviously, all the boring characters on on top and most of the good ones are on the bottom. People suck.Thank you for reminding me people have terrible taste.
Well I'd rather be posting about how awesome the new Berwyn content is but circumstances have made that kind of HARD.
- Apr 28, 2017
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Fair enough on the polls, altough that's some mighty bad taste on the patreon side, but that's pretty much what i said.
June 2021 isn't 'towards the beginning of development,' and by then they'd already moved away from companion loss scenes. Or at least i can't think of any that came out in or around that time, or since (also notice how that shit wasn't referenced in the changelog but rather got sneaked in there). That Savin commisioned it, i guess?
Which again leaves the poll stuff and that's it.
Meta ≠ EVIL
It's wonky because one might not want to give up Brint, so the game gives the player more time than due to pull back. I guess an argument could be made if one jumps Brienne from the get-go, but even then what comes after fits so bad with that choice that it's pretty clear shit's just meant to be wholesome and taken at face value.
In other words, it's not some complicated 5d chess to corrupt the player or the player character. Just meta. Same as the 0 corruption paladin dude raping folk after every other won encounter.
Sure, but going back to the beginning, did Tobs shut down Bubs when he brought up the Takahiro/Kiyoko stuff? Yes. Did he go on to write a rape scene for a similarly monogamous waifu without her creator's knowledge? Also yes. That's not speculation. Just tobs being tobs.
- Aug 16, 2021
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That doesn't help your case any. In Savin's defense, the man gives people soft prompts instead of hard outlines of what a scene needs to be. Writers get free reign to do whatever, as long as it doesn't break the lore and "technically" fulfills the prompt, its kosher. That's how the Lusamine cuck shit came to be, man paid for a Cait/Lusamine threesome then left its execution up to someone who adamantly prefers not using the PC for anything besides a glorified camera.
Besides that, don't think Savin is the only one who gets a say in what gets in game like how Fen was for TiTs. There's been times that shit slips pass the cracks, gets in and the guy in charge has no idea it's there or if it's even working properly. Poor fucker even said he doesn't usually bother double checking Tobs cause he trusts him not to be a fuck up or he did before the salt mining thing became a problem.
- Nov 15, 2017
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This, you can be sure that i would never help quin if not for the fact that his presence actually helps me complete the info page
well, we all come here for the exact same reason so nothing wrong with that, hell, i come here to read about people seething over little shit.I like the additions because of how much seething it generates over a porn game
(just throwing this out there)
And also to spite tobs, because i love foxes, but the main reason i started this crusade was because the doubted me as a human being just because i tried to actually teach something to my virtual daughter, for fucks sake, this is a game man, i don't know about other people, but i play coc2 for a few days once a month and then forget about it, because i have better things to do, coc2 is not my whole life, it's just a game i play when i'm in the mood to play smut games, then here comes a little prick that thinks he's better than all of us because he's got some delusions about having power, to make matters worse, i don't even like incest, i would stay 100ft away from Kinu if there was any possibility of incest with her, but her dumb fuck author just had to marry her to another one of his self inserts that also acts like i'm some kinda of dumb little shit from fucks know where that knows nothing about how life is, seriously, the only problem i have with the kitsune den is that me, as a player, has no input in how to teach my PCs children.
"No, i don't think kinu should marry that piece of shit kiyoko, no, i'm not gonna let that happen, i don't give a fuck about you society on the other fucking side of the ocean and if you force the issue i'm gonna burn that fucking tree down with everyone inside of it" that's the option i wanted when talking about Kinu's husband to be, so yeah, i hate tobs and his stinky little "daddy" problems, he can shove em for all i care and i'm sure most of us here feels the same, because what we all want is for our characters to actually have some impact in the game's relationships and not be some fucking lamp post that is just there to be used as some sexy toy to hot pussy/dicks.
Also, good content. Bitch, please, i don't care about loss scenes, if there's a part of the player base that enjoys that, just make a character for it, no need to add a actual scene where our companions end up being raped when we lose.
I can agree that it's out of place in this game, but I don't think NTR is only written in the interest of spite. In some ways Brienne is the perfect character for such a scene because she's one of the likely ones for the waifu crowd to get attached to which makes the NTR more effective for those who're into that. Everyone's got their kinks afterall, I'm not going to shame you for wanting to lick Brienne's abs.
The wait is real, here's hoping it's worth it in the end. I feel like it's mostly going to be focused around his quest but I'm hoping for a little more dom content from him, it's equal parts hilarious and hot.
- Apr 28, 2017
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If NTR's your kink whatever, but that shit wasn't written or approved by Brienne/Brint's creator, and most importantly isn't NTR. There's no element of corruption or what have you. It's just straight rape. Shit's like getting off to the Crow or Berserk's bad bits, only possibly worse because it's all imagination, which fucked as i am i'll openly judge
Anyone who hasn't snapped one off to the Casca and Griffith scene hasn't tried hard enough /s. On a serious note though rape fantasies are remarkably common and so long as it stays fantasy that's not a problem, hell there's probably more games with the rape tag than without on this site especially if you filtered by female protag.If NTR's your kink whatever, but that shit wasn't written or approved by Brienne/Brint's creator, and most importantly isn't NTR. There's no element of corruption or what have you. It's just straight rape. Shit's like getting off to the Crow or Berserk's bad bits, only possibly worse because it's all imagination, which fucked as i am i'll openly judge
- Jun 1, 2017
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I just don't get Kinus content. I just recently learned of the second part of her quest, where you have to talk to komari first I think then can talk to kinu again. So your daughter, and also a BIG DEAL to the kitsune, who timeline wise was recently attacked, along with her entire family, by a entire group that apparently got past a gods protection and proceeded to yeet fire all over your home a few hours or so until people noticed, proceeds to travel cross continent with KOHAKU and what seem to be 5 or 6 farmers-with-pitchforks level guards. You've got people like kurako, golem maker fox that's abandonware, miko and mai, or I dunno, NAKANO?
*SPOILERS*
So kinu gets jumped, by the same people, kohaku and the farmers suffer a coma, a fatality and severe wounds from a single wave, then kinu commands them to run away. So man with rapier talks about taoth and wanting to rape her rapidly, and then basically is a nano second from killing her but they write in a "actually her shoulder touched the teleport so she's k". Afterward, when your character starts trying to say anything about defending her more, it basically boils down to her saying she's a strong independent woman who is very close to learning the power of friendship and a training arc. Nakano would have had a moment to have really shone if he'dve been the one that stayed with her/ saved her after she told kohaku to flee, and he received injuries in her place or some such, and they wouldntve needed a more blatant deus ex machina but anyway. So taoth is what was originally going to be the "evil" kitsune route stemming from when you first take the amulet, there was going to be a whole route where you sided with him instead but apparently nobody wanted to write it or it took effort or something. Main thing though is taoth is essentially god-level, or at minimum kasyrras level. So keros apparently is letting a foreign dark god randomly attack his people, kill them, maim them, siege a home of his direct descendants under his protection, he doesn't inform you, who could be his champion at this point, he doesn't inform his priestesses, he doesn't inform kiyoko, he doesn't directly interfere, they didn't give kinu any guards worth a crap, and both times she only wasn't violated or slowly tortured to death from sheer luck.
So imo it's stupid on multiple levels, that she's just a solo DND power fantasy, that nobody in the den seems to care, that keros is doing jack-all while a enemy god supposedly from kas' dimension and his cult does whatever in his domain, that her fiance, at least one of which is a turbo samurai fanboy apparently let her go cross continent on her own after she's already been a target while he whines and writes crap poetry, and also that taoth, who is at minimum a second or third endgame-level antagonist, is going to be dealt with most likely by a solo kinu becoming a anime level power fantasy while the main character just listens to her stories while sitting in the corner. Edit: OH YEAH I forgot, for bonus points MALLACH via river is the one to directly interfere to ensure her safety at the end.
*SPOILERS*
So kinu gets jumped, by the same people, kohaku and the farmers suffer a coma, a fatality and severe wounds from a single wave, then kinu commands them to run away. So man with rapier talks about taoth and wanting to rape her rapidly, and then basically is a nano second from killing her but they write in a "actually her shoulder touched the teleport so she's k". Afterward, when your character starts trying to say anything about defending her more, it basically boils down to her saying she's a strong independent woman who is very close to learning the power of friendship and a training arc. Nakano would have had a moment to have really shone if he'dve been the one that stayed with her/ saved her after she told kohaku to flee, and he received injuries in her place or some such, and they wouldntve needed a more blatant deus ex machina but anyway. So taoth is what was originally going to be the "evil" kitsune route stemming from when you first take the amulet, there was going to be a whole route where you sided with him instead but apparently nobody wanted to write it or it took effort or something. Main thing though is taoth is essentially god-level, or at minimum kasyrras level. So keros apparently is letting a foreign dark god randomly attack his people, kill them, maim them, siege a home of his direct descendants under his protection, he doesn't inform you, who could be his champion at this point, he doesn't inform his priestesses, he doesn't inform kiyoko, he doesn't directly interfere, they didn't give kinu any guards worth a crap, and both times she only wasn't violated or slowly tortured to death from sheer luck.
So imo it's stupid on multiple levels, that she's just a solo DND power fantasy, that nobody in the den seems to care, that keros is doing jack-all while a enemy god supposedly from kas' dimension and his cult does whatever in his domain, that her fiance, at least one of which is a turbo samurai fanboy apparently let her go cross continent on her own after she's already been a target while he whines and writes crap poetry, and also that taoth, who is at minimum a second or third endgame-level antagonist, is going to be dealt with most likely by a solo kinu becoming a anime level power fantasy while the main character just listens to her stories while sitting in the corner. Edit: OH YEAH I forgot, for bonus points MALLACH via river is the one to directly interfere to ensure her safety at the end.
- Sep 6, 2019
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Thing is though, you don't have to shove that shit onto a character like Brienne. Just do it on another character that you're not going to fucking marry. Then again I can't for the life of my think rape is anything but disgusting whether it's a fantasy or not, so what do I know.
Honestly amazes me how many people take issue with his writing and nothing is being done about it. Like does nobody on the dev team actually see the issue with the guy or something? Does he even listen to feedback? I would assume not because his writing hasn't changed this entire time.
I just shouldn't question these things, I probably don't even want to know the answer in the first place
. Just so weird how one person can have their head stuck in the ground that deep. I imagine he doesn't do much self-reflection in general.