VN Others Completed Daughter for Dessert [Ch. 19] [Palmer/Love-Joint]

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Turret

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Jun 23, 2017
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Palmer said:
Thank you so much for those remarks! I will just answer briefly now as we are getting close to a new release and I'm on my monthly 30-40 hours awake schedule; so a little bit stressed out :)

Patreon changed their TOS in Oct 2017 so there are some things I can't really reply to in your list. We were suspended at the same time as most of the other "top" adult creators and I was literally told to remove this entire thread on F95, which I'm not the creator of, and which is frankly totally absurd.

Me and AW made a stream on Twitch for 2 hours where we talked a lot about the layout of the game, how we planned the game from the beginning, etc. It's a shame it was auto-deleted after a certain amount of weeks, and that you didn't catch it.

I think a lot of what you say is subjective and your opinion is obviously as valid as ours or anybody else's. DFD was from the beginning meant to have exactly this story and was supposed to have a "TV-series" vibe to it (since you're a writer, I'm guessing you can find those elements). We never "changed" or made "additions" to the story from the initial synopsis, despite the TOS changes, which still obviously had an impact on the game. We haven't shortened or prolonged the game in any way.

We're also working on an extremely tight schedule obviously. With 3 games being currently developed, two of which are scheduled for monthly releases, things will happen - that to me and AW makes total sense - but for you, might not. And that is obviously totally okay and also why it's so important I listen to you guys.

Although I and AW don't agree with your reasoning in your post, we are obviously a) biased, b) know the story, and c) think it makes total sense. We've also never heard any of the feedback that's come up on this forum after the free release of Ch14, compared to what was being said on Patreon and/or Discord after the Patreon release, which is why I said earlier that there's a difference in what type of comments patrons/non-patrons make. There obviously is; but we do listen to both, which is why I'm here. And releasing all games for free is something we are proud to be able to do, so all feedback here definitely matters.

I'd be more than happy to talk about this further more after this month's release is done.

Again, thank you for your feedback.
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Hi and thank you for your answers! I am curious how the solution of DFD will be. As for our different reasoning that is quite logical. There might be the "author factor" playing a role here. Had that different PoV one or two times myself. When you are the author, some things you write about make total sense for you, while to those outside it is not so. So I will wait until the end of DFD how it is solved.
As for Patreon and their operational behaviour: It seems like their success went into their heads.
 
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PPE2RedDucks

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Oct 3, 2018
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Palmer said:
Thank you so much for those remarks! I will just answer briefly now as we are getting close to a new release and I'm on my monthly 30-40 hours awake schedule; so a little bit stressed out :)

Patreon changed their TOS in Oct 2017 so there are some things I can't really reply to in your list. We were suspended at the same time as most of the other "top" adult creators and I was literally told to remove this entire thread on F95, which I'm not the creator of, and which is frankly totally absurd.

Me and AW made a stream on Twitch for 2 hours where we talked a lot about the layout of the game, how we planned the game from the beginning, etc. It's a shame it was auto-deleted after a certain amount of weeks, and that you didn't catch it.

I think a lot of what you say is subjective and your opinion is obviously as valid as ours or anybody else's. DFD was from the beginning meant to have exactly this story and was supposed to have a "TV-series" vibe to it (since you're a writer, I'm guessing you can find those elements). We never "changed" or made "additions" to the story from the initial synopsis, despite the TOS changes, which still obviously had an impact on the game. We haven't shortened or prolonged the game in any way.

We're also working on an extremely tight schedule obviously. With 3 games being currently developed, two of which are scheduled for monthly releases, things will happen - that to me and AW makes total sense - but for you, might not. And that is obviously totally okay and also why it's so important I listen to you guys.

Although I and AW don't agree with your reasoning in your post, we are obviously a) biased, b) know the story, and c) think it makes total sense. We've also never heard any of the feedback that's come up on this forum after the free release of Ch14, compared to what was being said on Patreon and/or Discord after the Patreon release, which is why I said earlier that there's a difference in what type of comments patrons/non-patrons make. There obviously is; but we do listen to both, which is why I'm here. And releasing all games for free is something we are proud to be able to do, so all feedback here definitely matters.

I'd be more than happy to talk about this further more after this month's release is done.

Again, thank you for your feedback.
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Always struck how reasonably you come across, Palmer. Robust in defense of your achievements, but "listening", responsive, and courteous too, if sometimes through gritted teeth. When others express themselves less temperately than Turret.

To put my cards on the table: Inc*st is something that doesn't interest me a bit. Not revulsion, just: Why?

I've mentioned before, Palmer and whoever AW is "motivated" the father-daughter attraction as plausibly and gently as I suppose one could. A guy badly missing his lost wife, lonely in the world as well as stressed by work and financial and existential worries, and increasingly seeing his lost woman's image in the daughter. The daughter missing her mother too, a loner for the most part (Kathy an uncertain/ambiguous best friend, and that's about it), an introvert pretending to be an extrovert, tending to be suspicious of others, anxious about most things though not wanting to show it, so putting on a carefree manner. With a certain verve and energy and initiative, when not too troubled or downcast. But needing the psychological protection of the MC, and, since her hormones are working overtime, not satisfied to vegetate.

All that was handled as sensitively, I'd almost add cutely, as about possible. Personally, I still preferred the step- over the blood-, but others, I guess especially in character and experiences more like the MC as just described, might have inner hankerings, temptations, needs or whatever it is. At least in fantasy. Whatever.

Big clampdown (a sort of clanging portcullis) bashed the game for a while, knocked out a central pillar of the investigation of that relationship - if not a central pillock. And Amanda's (and the MC's) status towards each other has been floating about a bit ever since. Not only because they can't work it out: who they are, individually let alone towards each other.

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JoeSte91

JoeSte91

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Apr 12, 2018
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I started playing for the daughter, and I'd like to finish with the daughter, but at this point it's looking like I'll wind up enjoying the Heidi ending more.

Palmer said:
We've also never heard any of the feedback that's come up on this forum after the free release of Ch14, compared to what was being said on Patreon and/or Discord after the Patreon release, which is why I said earlier that there's a difference in what type of comments patrons/non-patrons make. There obviously is; but we do listen to both, which is why I'm here. And releasing all games for free is something we are proud to be able to do, so all feedback here definitely matters.
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I'd be curious to know why you bring up the difference between paying and non-paying player's comments. I mean, people who pay to support you already think the game is great or they wouldn't be supporting it. That's not to say that people can't change their minds, but if they already enjoy it that much it's not surprising that you'd see less deviation and disagreement. Conversely though, it makes it seem like you're calling the people who don't pay ungrateful freeloaders, because they're the only one's you think are criticising the story's direction.

But, let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and for a second assume that's not the implication you're making. What is the point you're trying to make with the comparison of paying and non-paying players? What exactly do you believe is the correlation?
 
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PPE2RedDucks

Active Member
Oct 3, 2018
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JoeSte91 said:
I started playing for the daughter, and I'd like to finish with the daughter, but at this point it's looking like I'll wind up enjoying the Heidi ending more.



I'd be curious to know why you bring up the difference between paying and non-paying player's comments. I mean, people who pay to support you already think the game is great or they wouldn't be supporting it. That's not to say that people can't change their minds, but if they already enjoy it that much it's not surprising that you'd see less deviation and disagreement. Conversely though, it makes it seem like you're calling the people who don't pay ungrateful freeloaders, because they're the only one's you think are criticising the story's direction.

But, let's give you the benefit of the doubt, and for a second assume that's not the implication you're making. What is the point you're trying to make with the comparison of paying and non-paying players? What exactly do you believe is the correlation?
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I suppose Palmer will answer that if he/she sees and it and feels like replying, but I think that "difference" is partly explained here?:

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- implying (I think) some people might not have followed the whole story, got the full gist, and yet take exception to this or that plot twist. Because they have an allergic reaction to one or other character.

FWIW - and this is just a view, of someone who is not a patron btw - I think it's surely fair enough if developers pay heed to the people who keep them going (livelihood and morale) first, and those who dip in and play along second (which is far from meaning they disregard non-patrons). I think "ungrateful freeloaders" is a pugnacious term of your own, that tends to inflame the discussion if you are imputing it to Palmer - the developer having made it clear in more than one post that all decent feedback matters, and is listened to.

But wouldn't you, in almost any type of work (or life), pay first attention to those who sustain you?

I play this game, and haven't yet paid. I've expressed views, here and elsewhere. Most appreciative, some mildly (adversely) critical, though not as far as I know unfair. And I'd have thought all reasonably civil criticism is legitimate, esp. if well-considered. ~ But I don't think I've necessarily a right to expect whatever I want to be done!
 
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srusnak102

New Member
Apr 28, 2017
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From what has been said by other people on this forum.
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That does not seems undecided and thinking things over. That seems like something that is major confrontation. Still love the story. waiting for chapter 17. I wanted to finish my main play thru with amanda first, but it just feels so different and wrong.
 
JoeSte91

JoeSte91

Member
Apr 12, 2018
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PPE2RedDucks said:
I suppose Palmer will answer that if he/she sees and it and feels like replying, but I think that "difference" is partly explained here?:

You must be registered to see the links
- implying (I think) some people might not have followed the whole story, got the full gist, and yet take exception to this or that plot twist. Because they have an allergic reaction to one or other character.
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That post doesn't explain anything, it simply states that there is a difference.

But, I do think we'd need @Palmer to clarify because I took the
Palmer said:
what people that support us say from following along the story.
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to mean that when the patron followers played chapters 14 that they didn't have the same criticism at that time, not that they don't have the same criticisms now, two chapters later, which means when they played the chapter, without any future knowledge or explanation, their view was that the chapter made sense and wasn't off putting at all. Which is fine. I'm just not sure why Palmer would tell us that, which is why I asked.

PPE2RedDucks said:
I think it's surely fair enough if developers pay heed to the people who keep them going (livelihood and morale) first...But wouldn't you, in almost any type of work (or life), pay first attention to those who sustain you?
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Not necessarily.

Let's say I run a business. There are investors who get dividends from the success of the company. So far we're making profits but if I take a risk there's a possibility I could make a lot more money. Market research says its a good idea. However, the investors don't want to take the chance

Who do you trust? The people who don't know your business but know the market, or the investors who'd rather keep making a return on their money?

The fact is you have to take both and weigh your options. You can't ever just listen to one side of the table, especially if that table is agreeing with you. I understand that Palmer thinks that's what's he's doing, I'm simply asking about the purpose of the comparison. The two sides think differently. And? Is it supposed to make us rethink our positions just because the people that pay for the product liked it? As I already said, it's not surprising that there's less deviation amongst people who enjoyed the story enough that they were already willing to pay for it.

PPE2RedDucks said:
I think "ungrateful freeloaders" is a pugnacious term of your own, that tends to inflame the discussion if you are imputing it to Palmer - the developer having made it clear in more than one post that all decent feedback matters, and is listened to
...
But I don't think I've necessarily a right to expect whatever I want to be done!
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Of course, ungrateful freeloaders is my own term, but I'm not trying to inflame anything. If I were content to sit back and think of Palmer as some obstinate dev with an ego, I wouldn't have then said that I'd give him the benefit of the doubt and ask what he meant. I'd have just gone away, believing him to be exactly what it seems. I understand that there's a difference between the paid and non-paid, I just don't see what the point of bringing it up to us is, unless it's meant to incite guilt or provoke us. So, I asked, because it may just be that I don't see the purpose.

I don't expect him to change anything either. He can't. At this point, my view of chapter 14 is effectively meaningless because he's already a few chapters ahead, and probably more in terms of planning. I'm not stamping my foot and demanding he go back and fix it. But I also don't read a book and then think 'well, this was published months/years ago, there's no point voicing my dissatisfaction with plot point X'. If Palmer wants to write the story he wants to write, more power to him, but there's no imperative on me as someone who's experiencing it to be accepting or agreeable.
 
Zed | Love-Joint

Zed | Love-Joint

Love-Joint Team
Game Developer
Dec 18, 2018
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I personally can’t see pregnancy, would make things far too complex. Especially if there’s another part of DFD after, I could be wrong.
 
Lonecanuck

Lonecanuck

Member
Sep 5, 2017
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Z | Love-Joint said:
I personally can’t see pregnancy, would make things far too complex. Especially if there’s another part of DFD after, I could be wrong.
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I only see pregnancy happening in endings. And yes, a DFD 2 or season 2 would probably be borked if pregnancy happened now.
 
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3.50 star(s) 128 Votes