- Sep 20, 2018
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The story is linear. There's no branching narratives based on the choices you make as of right now. You go from point A to point B with the same story. Maybe we'll get different endings with different girls but that does not make the first 15 or so chapters non-linear in their story telling. We don't even have a choice about whether or not we start a relationship with one of the characters.
I don't think that last statement is true, for a start.
My MC has so far successfully avoided all romance with Lily. He says because his life is too complicated already. I suspect it's really because she's not as voluptuous as the others. (Oh, and he also sidestepped a fling with the finance manager - whose name I forget.)
As far as I can see, Amanda is the only girl/woman he can't escape.
My MC has so far successfully avoided all romance with Lily. He says because his life is too complicated already. I suspect it's really because she's not as voluptuous as the others. (Oh, and he also sidestepped a fling with the finance manager - whose name I forget.)
As far as I can see, Amanda is the only girl/woman he can't escape.
Olivia was also a choice. My MC went for her. He says because he was freaked out with the Amanda situation. But I think it's actually because he is drawn to practically-minded, hands-on women.
Especially voluptuous ones ...
Especially voluptuous ones ...
That is what I was saying. You're forced into a relationship with one of the characters.
Ah, misread your OP. As "one" meaning "any one".
Well yes. But that li'l lady's sort of anchored in the game's title, before the Big Clampdown happened and skewed the game differently, even knocking out the central pole of the tent, so to speak. But even with Mandy, you can fob her off (much of the time, if not always) after the initial game-enforced entanglement.
So, Amanda, Elaine and the Moe-related saga apart, you agree, you do have choices/divergences in the game - with all the other female characters? (Except Elaine, who died before we knew her, before the game, and her ?sister?, who's ... well, just not into you/MC ...)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I mean, Heidi or no Heidi is the most important element of the game for me
Well yes. But that li'l lady's sort of anchored in the game's title, before the Big Clampdown happened and skewed the game differently, even knocking out the central pole of the tent, so to speak. But even with Mandy, you can fob her off (much of the time, if not always) after the initial game-enforced entanglement.
So, Amanda, Elaine and the Moe-related saga apart, you agree, you do have choices/divergences in the game - with all the other female characters? (Except Elaine, who died before we knew her, before the game, and her ?sister?, who's ... well, just not into you/MC ...)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I mean, Heidi or no Heidi is the most important element of the game for me
- Apr 12, 2018
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Linear simply means consecutive, in the sense that day 2 follows from day 1 or day 7 from day 3. It only becomes non-linear if the story jumps in time, for example if the story goes from day 3 to day 7, then back to day 5. That's non-linear storytelling.
In literary arts the concept of branching doesn't really exist outside of choose your own adventure novels, but choice is a fairly common device within visual novels. But DfD doesn't even really branch. Your choices affect individual scenes and opinions, for instance, whether you can have a threesome with Heidi and Kathy, but there's no mechanic within the narrative to allow the player to stop Amanda from leaving. No matter how nice or how much you reject her, she always makes the same choices. So this game is actually quite linear and rigid in narrative.
That being said, maybe there is some system working that will mean the endings will take into consideration choices made as early as chapter one. I don't quite know how it would effect the story, considering it hasn't up to this point, but not knowing how it's going to end, I can't say with absolute certainty that the endings won't diverge wildly depending on previous choice and preference. But unless there's a time machine developed, it's unlikely to be non-linear.
In literary arts the concept of branching doesn't really exist outside of choose your own adventure novels, but choice is a fairly common device within visual novels. But DfD doesn't even really branch. Your choices affect individual scenes and opinions, for instance, whether you can have a threesome with Heidi and Kathy, but there's no mechanic within the narrative to allow the player to stop Amanda from leaving. No matter how nice or how much you reject her, she always makes the same choices. So this game is actually quite linear and rigid in narrative.
That being said, maybe there is some system working that will mean the endings will take into consideration choices made as early as chapter one. I don't quite know how it would effect the story, considering it hasn't up to this point, but not knowing how it's going to end, I can't say with absolute certainty that the endings won't diverge wildly depending on previous choice and preference. But unless there's a time machine developed, it's unlikely to be non-linear.
For everyone: Simple thing to do non-linear game is writing script first. I know that 99.99% of devs just write script, make game, release it, then making new script, make v2, release it and so on and on. So as i said best thing is write script first for whole game and key is to have less characters ingame because more characters you have, script and options for each character is going to be huge and it will be mess and new content will look like (example):
v420
John meets new character Alice
He doesnt like Alice (option 1 new scenario)
He does like Alice (option 2 new scenario)
and only with this written above devs multiple every single decision by 2. 2 becomes 4, 4 becomes 8 etc. Script becomes so long and no1 will like it because update will contain new 200 line of text for just 2 people, nothing imporant, and if you want to play game which is lets say realistic for example dating (not after several lines of text you can have sex) and having so many characters you will wait atleast 10 years for game to be finished. So less characters, more realistic things, more hey wanna grab coffe? and game is gonna be perfect. But sadly 99.9999% of games with tags "dating" is unrealistic and its all about sex after several lines of text as i said. Sometimes i wonder why there is no game where is 1 guy alone in room, have option to call 100 girls and fck each one of them unlimited times and in 100s of different positions but seems most of people want to do that but they also needs to say hi to girl and make game scenario which looks like playboy movies from 90s. Am not talking about this game but every game.
v420
John meets new character Alice
He doesnt like Alice (option 1 new scenario)
He does like Alice (option 2 new scenario)
and only with this written above devs multiple every single decision by 2. 2 becomes 4, 4 becomes 8 etc. Script becomes so long and no1 will like it because update will contain new 200 line of text for just 2 people, nothing imporant, and if you want to play game which is lets say realistic for example dating (not after several lines of text you can have sex) and having so many characters you will wait atleast 10 years for game to be finished. So less characters, more realistic things, more hey wanna grab coffe? and game is gonna be perfect. But sadly 99.9999% of games with tags "dating" is unrealistic and its all about sex after several lines of text as i said. Sometimes i wonder why there is no game where is 1 guy alone in room, have option to call 100 girls and fck each one of them unlimited times and in 100s of different positions but seems most of people want to do that but they also needs to say hi to girl and make game scenario which looks like playboy movies from 90s. Am not talking about this game but every game.
I suppose it depends whether "linear" is used in a looser, broadly descriptive sense (synonym: sequential, ongoing, cumulative), or more strictly, more narrowly, as a negative criticism (= game is too much of a restrictive straight line - without enough options, alternatives, divergences - not enough different game progressions & ultimate outcomes).
From the discussion, I understood an adverse criticism was being leveled - hence that the second ("normative") sense was being applied.
And that's why I made the points I did. I don't think the game is a one-track pony, especially as regards sex and love.
I'll just add one more point, then sign off on this (I promise).
The game is a proper graphic novel, it is going to end up with 18-20 chapters, few of them exactly short.
If you are (in fact) criticizing the game as being "linear" in the narrow ("one-track") sense, I wonder what physical capacity of game would be needed (- and time & effort required to build it all -) to make DfD as near to the wide openness of life as dammit. With our MC facing a wide open field, to go wherever he chooses.
I suspect Tolstoy and Proust might have to eat their hearts out ...
Anyway, that's just a view.
(EDIT PS: I wrote the above before seeing Balboy's post. Some of the same issues, but a different viewpoint.)
From the discussion, I understood an adverse criticism was being leveled - hence that the second ("normative") sense was being applied.
And that's why I made the points I did. I don't think the game is a one-track pony, especially as regards sex and love.
I'll just add one more point, then sign off on this (I promise).
The game is a proper graphic novel, it is going to end up with 18-20 chapters, few of them exactly short.
If you are (in fact) criticizing the game as being "linear" in the narrow ("one-track") sense, I wonder what physical capacity of game would be needed (- and time & effort required to build it all -) to make DfD as near to the wide openness of life as dammit. With our MC facing a wide open field, to go wherever he chooses.
I suspect Tolstoy and Proust might have to eat their hearts out ...
Anyway, that's just a view.
(EDIT PS: I wrote the above before seeing Balboy's post. Some of the same issues, but a different viewpoint.)
Offtopic, but I always found Kathy's "serious face" funny. Especially when you're going to penetrate her during threesome and she is looking at you as if you were given a choice of going to kill half of NY and a small puppy or permanently shut down the development of cure for cancer.
Like Jesus girl, lose that stupid face, it's not a fucking Trolley Problem.
EDIT: Gotta catch-up, I'm still on Ch13. Hoping for a route where I can ditch Amanda (I guess it was a little offputting for me this whole daughter-father relationship, sorry guys and gals - it's not my kink) and be with Heidi and Kathy in polyamory relationship.
EDIT2: Or let Heidi and Kathy be in relationship together if I am forced to choose one over another, while I take Lily and go on the road with her.
Like Jesus girl, lose that stupid face, it's not a fucking Trolley Problem.
EDIT: Gotta catch-up, I'm still on Ch13. Hoping for a route where I can ditch Amanda (I guess it was a little offputting for me this whole daughter-father relationship, sorry guys and gals - it's not my kink) and be with Heidi and Kathy in polyamory relationship.
EDIT2: Or let Heidi and Kathy be in relationship together if I am forced to choose one over another, while I take Lily and go on the road with her.
- Apr 12, 2018
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Choice, ending and release schedule have nothing to do with how linear or non-linear a story is. I'm not even saying that DfD is strictly linear. It includes flashbacks, which does make it more somewhat non-linear, but the story is largely told from one pov one event after another which does make it predominantly linear. The element of choice doesn't by itself effect that, though for that choice to have meaning it would largely have to be linear to show cause and effect.
For reference, Beyond: Two Souls is a game that featured both choice and non-linear storytelling, and the two didn't gel well together at all.
The term you're looking for there is 'railroading'.
Also lol at you with "Lily for lunch" @Dimitri57, "Kebabs with Kathy" Avaron1974 and "High Tea with Heidi" DrFog. You have great ideas!
- Dec 30, 2017
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I agree. VNs do have some choices that create different realities, but the branches have to be limited or else it would be impossible to go past the first update.
Almost ever choice could spawn its own game by cascading farther from each alternative choice.
[MY BOLD]
That's my cue to appeal to Palmer again for Heidi to have a game of her own
The Ice Queen clearly has a wealth of experience - some quite dramatic - to draw on, so it would hardly be dull!
- Nov 22, 2018
- 1,201
- 2,089
Heidi or Kathy could be the main love interest in game but Palmer would just assassinate their character halfway through it.[MY BOLD]
That's my cue to appeal to Palmer again for Heidi to have a game of her own
The Ice Queen clearly has a wealth of experience - some quite dramatic - to draw on, so it would hardly be dull!
Would be dramatic though - definitely a winner ...
And Mo could be the stalker, hanger-on and general "love" interest. ...
Though actually, now I think about it, a completely different game, featuring Heidi AND Kathy as hard-working romantically entwined co-stars, might be a different sort of winner. Each haunted by their history, phallocratic admirers and - of course - Mo.
"Sisters in Nightmare Country" (SiNC, for short).
And Mo could be the stalker, hanger-on and general "love" interest. ...
Though actually, now I think about it, a completely different game, featuring Heidi AND Kathy as hard-working romantically entwined co-stars, might be a different sort of winner. Each haunted by their history, phallocratic admirers and - of course - Mo.
"Sisters in Nightmare Country" (SiNC, for short).
Going off track with the conversation a bit here but when initially you choose veronica over Heidi at the bar, that´s pretty much it with her right? No more sexual interactions? I got to the part where shes doing the numbers but she kinda cuts me off...