VN Ren'Py Abandoned Detective Necro [v0.55 Hotfix] [BlackHandGames]

[Deleted member 4822408]

Hmm... I've downloaded it but haven't started to play yet. I wonder if I should wait a bit.

At this point, yeah you should wait. No point having your first play through only to restart when the next update comes out.

The re-write would make Phoebe look... dumb..really dumb... she went for advice to the one person who hates MC with a burning passion?

People IRL forgive a LOT of flaws in family members, and an influential parent can very easily convince a person to make a bad decision by playing to insecurities and fears.

What Tiur said.

 

[BTLD]

At this point, yeah you should wait. No point having your first play through only to restart when the next update comes out.



What Tiur said.

if that's the way you want to portray a Main LI that's your choice.
I'm just saying that , for me, she doesn't seem like LI material, being able to change her mind like that about the "love of her life".

 

[Deleted member 4822408]

if that's the way you want to portray a Main LI that's your choice.
I'm just saying that , for me, she doesn't seem like LI material, being able to change her mind like that about the "love of her life".

 

[Tiur]

I'm just saying that , for me, she doesn't seem like LI material, being able to change her mind like that about the "love of her life".

You've clearly never known someone with a manipulative/narcissistic parent. Having known several, I can guarantee you that Wendy had been sowing the seeds of that move for years by that point. The decision that seems to be impulsive and momentary to us was almost unquestionably many years and dozens of frustrating conversations with her mother in the making, so that that one time she's vulnerable after feeling jealousy, her mother swooped in and struck hard, and she made a stupid decision. It's a stupid decision she regretted, and she's now willing to finally cut her mother off to be with the MC and Glasha again, which is a type of growth rarely seen in these kinds of AVNs.

But I know, I know, an LI breathes wrong once, and a ton of people on this site are already ready to crucify her. It goes how it goes. If you don't like her, reject her, and that's that.

 

[Raziel_8]

I never had any problem with Phoebe, either, and forgave her instantly. Not sure that someone getting the impression she cheated equates to misogyny, though. It's not anti-woman to say you're upset that someone cheated on you. Obviously it's now confirmed that she did not cheat, and like I said before, I took her back right away. But having a hard time with the thought of that doesn't feel very anti-woman to me. I'd assume a woman whose man cheats on her would be equally irate... or are you saying that would be misandry as well?

Hm, i didn't know Phoebe was hated, first time i did hear that.
Personaly i just found her uninteresting, there is also the point i liked Glasha way more from the get to go (seeing her reaction if you reject Phoebe was worth it imo), gave Phoebe a chance to talk, declined a relationship and than the same a second time.

Where came the believe she cheated from thought ? I never did get that impression, neither did the MC/Glasha.

 

[gregers]

Hm, i didn't know Phoebe was hated, first time i did hear that.
Personaly i just found her uninteresting,

Yeah, I generally don't hate any of the characters in these games (it's all just a made up story we're reading for fun, y'know), just didn't find her particularly appealing. Was/am inclined to distrust her because the MC and his partner have clearly been hurt by her behaviour, but ended up having her move back in just because there wasn't any compelling reason not to.

If the dev is going back over the early parts and breaking saves anyway, I hope they'll take the opportunity to revisit the distribution of the bad/good points, as they seem rather random at the moment (some minor choices giving a lot of points, some seemingly major choices not affecting the balance at all). Better to get that sorted now than have to do yet another rewrite.

 

[JJDrakken]

Just ignore BTLD, he has issues, lots of issues. He loves being entitled, he'll facepalm you to death cuz he think it's going hurt your feelings, but in reality you get points.

 

[sk1122]

Phoebe...
Perhaps the most divisive character in the game, aside from Natasha.

Eh?
Okay, I guess some people will always find a reason.
You could as well throw a fit about Lily treating MC as disposable at first, or Maz doing her damn job and acting like a bulldog with toothache for the first minutes.
Makes me wonder what reaction Qadira gets from the same audience, or is it just easier excusable when it happens in a cousin sandwich?

 

[Spfjolietjake]

I hate censorship even self caused. I truly wish players would let devs tell the story they envision. I wish devs would stop reworking. However I wish for 2.5 million dollars and I feel each has an equal chance of happening

 

[HentaiKami]

I hate censorship even self caused. I truly wish players would let devs tell the story they envision. I wish devs would stop reworking. However I wish for 2.5 million dollars and I feel each has an equal chance of happening

In this case i don't think it's censorship. Dev came to realise that what they wanted to convey wasn't conveyd as they meant, so they are changing it into a form that conveys what was meant to be conveyd. There's difference between censorship and editing.

 

[gregers]

I hate censorship even self caused. I truly wish players would let devs tell the story they envision. I wish devs would stop reworking. However I wish for 2.5 million dollars and I feel each has an equal chance of happening

There's (self-)censorship and there's realizing the story you're trying to tell isn't coming across to the audience in the way you intended and making revisions in light of that. The former is sometimes a bad thing, the latter is a natural part of any writing endeavour.

Of course it easily becomes frustrating for players having to start over, but that's the price of playing a game before it's finished.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

In this case i don't think it's censorship. Dev came to realise that what they wanted to convey wasn't conveyd as they meant, so they are changing it into a form that conveys what was meant to be conveyd. There's difference between censorship and editing.

There's (self-)censorship and there's realizing the story you're trying to tell isn't coming across to the audience in the way you intended and making revisions in light of that. The former is sometimes a bad thing, the latter is a natural part of any writing endeavour.

Of course it easily becomes frustrating for players having to start over, but that's the price of playing a game before it's finished.

I respect both of your takes on this. To me it's like Kevin Smith changing the ending to clerks or Dickens rewriting the ending of great expectations.

Public outcry should never be a reason to change a work. Fuck the cancel culture.

Players had issue and hated a character out of what seems ignorance and now that is going to be changed. Maybe censorship ain't the right word. For that I'm guilty.

I personally hate changes like this but if it is for money I get it. That said I still hate it.

I'm a fan of this vn, but I do hope this where the caving to others ends

 

[HentaiKami]

I respect both of your takes on this. To me it's like Kevin Smith changing the ending to clerks or Dickens rewriting the ending of great expectations.

Public outcry should never be a reason to change a work. Fuck the cancel culture.

Players had issue and hated a character out of what seems ignorance and now that is going to be changed. Maybe censorship ain't the right word. For that I'm guilty.

I personally hate changes like this but if it is for money I get it. That said I still hate it.

I'm a fan of this vn, but I do hope this where the caving to others ends

I mean, unless you are saying that the dev is lying, they are saying that they saw people weren't getting the intended point of that part of the story. So they are now changing it to be clearer and more within the original vision of the story they wanted to tell you.

Think of these games that are still in development as being comparable of you getting to read story some novelist is writing, before it is actually published and printed. As they are writing it, they will occasionally go back on some previously written chapters and change things a bit, either because the story has now become clearer to themselves or they realised that earlier part just didn't mesh well with what they are writing now and feel like there's something to improve in that part of the story. Along the way they get feedback from editors and those they trust enough to let them read the work in progress and then after processing the feedback they will change it or keep it as it is. It's same thing with these games when devs change them.

Now i do agree with you that devs/writers/artists should never change the essence of the work because some people demand it, if it is against the vision of the work they want to produce. But we also have to realise that many creative people want to make a living with the works they make, so it's quite reasonable for them to change the work to be in a way that will get more people be happy with it, and that's not cancel culture, it's just your good old fashioned capitalism at work.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

I mean, unless you are saying that the dev is lying, they are saying that they saw people weren't getting the intended point of that part of the story. So they are now changing it to be clearer and more within the original vision of the story they wanted to tell you.

Think of these games that are still in development as being comparable of you getting to read story some novelist is writing, before it is actually published and printed. As they are writing it, they will occasionally go back on some previously written chapters and change things a bit, either because the story has now become clearer to themselves or they realised that earlier part just didn't mesh well with what they are writing now and feel like there's something to improve in that part of the story. Along the way they get feedback from editors and those they trust enough to let them read the work in progress and then after processing the feedback they will change it or keep it as it is. It's same thing with these games when devs change them.

Now i do agree with you that devs/writers/artists should never change the essence of the work because some people demand it, if it is against the vision of the work they want to produce. But we also have to realise that many creative people want to make a living with the works they make, so it's quite reasonable for them to change the work to be in a way that will get more people be happy with it, and that's not cancel culture, it's just your good old fashioned capitalism at work.

I did not mean to imply the dev lied, but as I read their first initial post about the changes, it seemed at least to me,
That the dev had to dumb down or change the story because a good chunk had issues with her. I mean from the statement it didn't seem like this was anyway what they wanted to do, but they are trying to appease the masses. Just how I took it.

Just ignore BTLD, he has issues, lots of issues. He loves being entitled, he'll facepalm you to death cuz he think it's going hurt your feelings, but in reality you get points.

I really don't think claiming someone has issues is right in anyway. Apparently it's not against the rules to claim someone has issues. However it's truly immature.

 

[JJDrakken]

I did not mean to imply the dev lied, but as I read their first initial post about the changes, it seemed at least to me,
That the dev had to dumb down or change the story because a good chunk had issues with her. I mean from the statement it didn't seem like this was anyway what they wanted to do, but they are trying to appease the masses. Just how I took it.


I really don't think claiming someone has issues is right in anyway. Apparently it's not against the rules to claim someone has issues. However it's truly immature.

I've dealt with him, a lot. So I have experience in the matter

 

[Before I Forget]

In this case i don't think it's censorship. Dev came to realise that what they wanted to convey wasn't conveyd as they meant, so they are changing it into a form that conveys what was meant to be conveyd. There's difference between censorship and editing.

Which is very understandable if that's indeed the reason.

 

[HentaiKami]

Which is very understandable if that's indeed the reason.

Until someone can prove otherwise, i think we should take devs word for it. So far i haven't seen or heard anything that would really indicate that they aren't telling the truth.

 

[Reniere]

I dont understand the meaning behind the rewrite of said character. In my honest option it doesnt make sense but then again its his process, Now I didnt hate the girl i understand why she left in the start. She couldnt deal with MC being with other women love or not she left because of her jealousy but she also worked her said issue to understand that, She started her relationship off someones else's back.

To me it felt right to write her that way.

She let her emotion's get to her
She worked on herself
She asked for forgiveness
Didnt betray even after leaving
She accepted she was wrong but also grew.

Looks like she went through the 5 stages of Acceptance.

Felt like she went through all the emotional process to move forward and grow. but maybe I missed something on how her character was meant to be built like. Now if the idea was meant to hate her then yea that failed but if the idea was to feel the growth of a character i saw it. But like i said if i missed something please tell me.

 

[Deleted member 4822408]

If the dev is going back over the early parts and breaking saves anyway, I hope they'll take the opportunity to revisit the distribution of the bad/good points, as they seem rather random at the moment (some minor choices giving a lot of points, some seemingly major choices not affecting the balance at all). Better to get that sorted now than have to do yet another rewrite.

It seems random at the moment but it isn't. Some of those major choices purposefully don't have any points associated with them. When the story plays out fully, the point distributions will make more sense. I hope when this thing is done, you can look back on your decisions and see how the little things added up to become big things.

I hate censorship even self caused. I truly wish players would let devs tell the story they envision. I wish devs would stop reworking. However I wish for 2.5 million dollars and I feel each has an equal chance of happening

I'm not censoring myself, so you don't have to worry about that. I'm not changing her storyline either. What I'm rewriting is how her story is presented. My first plan was to drip feed info until a big reveal, now I'm going to front load more. With players knowing very little about Phoebe when that scene happens, I think it's better to give a clearer picture of what went wrong. Leaving far less guess room means that new players won't make up reasons in their head, or at least I hope they won't .

they are saying that they saw people weren't getting the intended point of that part of the story. So they are now changing it to be clearer and more within the original vision of the story they wanted to tell you.

It's pretty much this exactly. I want to make her motivations clearer to players, especially new ones. Her overall story isn't changing at all. All her future story points are remaining the same, with the exception of her full story reveal to Glasha because it wouldn't work anymore.

She let her emotion's get to her
She worked on herself
She asked for forgiveness
Didnt betray even after leaving
She accepted she was wrong but also grew.

Looks like she went through the 5 stages of Acceptance.

Felt like she went through all the emotional process to move forward and grow

Those things will still be the same after the rewrite. My intention is to give people more info about why she needed to grow. I'm not making any changes to her storyline. I happen to like Phoebe the way she is . She isn't perfect but I think that's what makes her interesting. Imperfect people behaving imperfectly.

 

[Spfjolietjake]

I'm not censoring myself, so you don't have to worry about that. I'm not changing her storyline either. What I'm rewriting is how her story is presented. My first plan was to drip feed info until a big reveal, now I'm going to front load more. With players knowing very little about Phoebe when that scene happens, I think it's better to give a clearer picture of what went wrong. Leaving far less guess room means that new players won't make up reasons in their head, or at least I hope they won't .

That sounds better to me that what I took from the original announcement. My apologies for the misunderstanding. I've just seen too many devs being bullied to make changes.

Thanks for the reply and best of luck with this very enjoyable vn.