Ren'Py Abandoned Devil In Your Eyes [v0.05.3] [Graphicus Rex]

[The ArcKnight]

So I see both sides of the coin here.

On one hand, you should write the story you want to write, because its important you enjoy your work.
On the other, you should listen to your audience, because if something doesn't work, you need to know otherwise you're just developing into a void.

The solution lays somewhere in the middle between these two extremes, imo.
Sure, tell the story you want to tell, but listen to your audience on what they want to see in that story.
Take notes on what's working, and revise what doesn't if you can in the context of the story.

Got a side heroine people love? Find a way to work her in more.
Got a feature people hate? Find if there is a way to be accommodating if you can to tweak it, if you can't then tough tits.

Just don't completely fold to the audience and develop something you hate or completely ignore the opinions you don't like.
Its up to the dev to find the happy balance between listening to the audience and telling the story they want to tell.
As the player will ALWAYS advocate for the things they like.

 

[Jstforme]

thats the problem i got with Aubrey shes the only LI im interested in but everything so far is leading her to be with Sabrina, all of her inner monologue and her behaviour is about Sabrina not the MC, so i guess my MC will remain wanking alone on his bed because if i have to watch scenes of Aubrey and Sabrina getting it on then it will ruin Aubrey even more for me

hah, yea I got the same let down with Aubrey too. I did another playthrough being a dirtbag screwing whenever the option came up, either way makes no difference in the Aubrey story. But really, the dude left Aubrey tied to a bed and never tried coming back to let her out, because he was too scared...she'd rather risk her business and reputation by starting a lesbian relationship with her new business partner than hook back up with him, who could blame her.
I'm really struggling with how this either wimpy/idiot (depending on play) MC would possibly compete in any way against Kelly, it's like saying a snail is going to attack and kill a lion.
This appears to be one of those games where the MC just watches everything happening around him, with an occasional slut throwing herself at the MC every now and again. It's still early in the game, but damn things are really not stacking in the MC's favor in any way.


Edit: This would have been so much more fun if the MC for this game was Kelly. A character like that would be unique, be an asshole adding every influential women in the city to your harem, destroying enemies...why do Dev's shy away from strong/dominant/ruthless MC's? it's just weird to me.

 

[GraphicusRex]

I'll say this much at least.....all the back and forth about content/story........at least there hasn't been much complaining about the renders or animations this time around, lol. Not sure if anyone noticed, but I redid a lot of the Day 1 Aubrey renders(still one more scene on day one I want to re render). With that...I'm going to bed

ReturnofPoncho

 

[Avaron1974]

Can't say much about the renders myself, haven't played yet, but with comments that I've read..

I'll just watch some porn tbh.

Good luck though and have fun those that want to watch guys other then the MC fucking girls in games.

Talks about going to watch porn and see other people having sex then attempts to mock people that don't mind seeing other people having sex....

At least you find you funny and i'm sure the familiar names in the circle jerk club will too.

 

[LionBear]

Thanks for this great post

 

[Look-see]

I'll say this much at least.....all the back and forth about content/story........at least there hasn't been much complaining about the renders or animations this time around, lol. Not sure if anyone noticed, but I redid a lot of the Day 1 Aubrey renders(still one more scene on day one I want to re render). With that...I'm going to bed

i would say this is good news. if people dont complain about renders that usually means people are ok with them. if they suck they'll let you know. if they're great they'll also let you know.

 

[DA22]

The characters you see aren't LI's right now. Maybe down the line, but not as of now so it can't be ntr. Either way, thank you for the feed back

ReturnofPoncho

Well whether it is the three letter word or not is not really material in this discussion. Whether it is good or bad, childish and entitled or not, for a lot of people seeing someone having sex with other males or even females disqualify her as a LI, future or not. Actually the three letter word also pertains to future LI's that are not that yet, if there are enough indications they will be in future.

The real thing is though that some do like to see others have the action and others hate it, if the first group is your potential market or big part of it I would be very sparingly with adding voyeurism containing sex or make it very avoidable. If it is not, then do not listen to those complaints and add it as much as you want. It is your game after all and you can not please everyone anyway

Considering the big focus on Henry in this update, the same goes as what I said above, you cannot please everyone. Just be aware when add a protagonist turned up to 11 and put a lot of focus on him it can feel he takes over the game and those who immerse strongly in an MC do dislike that.

Also it can be pretty hard to integrate a crime story well with romance. An example of a game where that went completely wrong in my eyes though many loved it was Our Fate. It had a great story and depth between Mc and main females at start, but action in story was completely taken over by the crime and corruption story without that crime and corruption story having direct feedback into and enabled growth in the relation of the MC and the females. It felt like playing two games at same time, where the more interesting part of the chars and their relations was snowed under by the side crimestory that was way less interesting and worse done in my view. (Yeah in my eyes it was a side story, since it did not feed back into the growth of the chars).

Now part of the main problem I got some players have rightly or wrongly from their remarks is that due to this update being so heavily focused away from MC, which may well be needed for the story, they get that feeling the game is split too much as I had with Our Fate. If so and if unwanted by you as devs that may be a hint to go back to the storyboard and maybe have a look at when what is showed and at which time, so that during the WIP you make sure that the antagonist does not feel like taking over updates and becomes the protagonist, unless that is what you actually want. Who said storytelling is easy.

Good luck though with the game and development as you want to do it. Fact quite a few people feel strongly means the characters are capable of gripping the players. So you are def doing things right.

 

[NateGrey]

In a game: usually you I try to insert yourmyself as the MC..

Fixed that for you. There are also a lot of people for whom the MC (or MC's, if there are multiple protagonists) are just the tool they use to make choices to move the story toward the things they want to see.

Now if you'll leave me the fuck alone since I already said I'm not interested in this game, that'd be great.

If you're not interested why do you keep coming back to respond?

 

[hatefuldisplay]

Got a side heroine people love? Find a way to work her in more.

I always wish for that with characters I find of interest. Unfortunately, it becomes difficult for developers to be that inclusive once they add more than a few characters. There are some games (WMV and Ataegina are good examples) that might go several updates without more than a slight glimpse of the ladies I was hoping to see.

As much as that disappoints me, I find that these games still have other characters of interest to me so I just hope for the return of my favorites at some point.

hah, yea I got the same let down with Aubrey too. I did another playthrough being a dirtbag screwing whenever the option came up, either way makes no difference in the Aubrey story.

Edit: This would have been so much more fun if the MC for this game was Kelly. A character like that would be unique, be an asshole adding every influential women in the city to your harem, destroying enemies...why do Dev's shy away from strong/dominant/ruthless MC's? it's just weird to me.

I am unsure about Aubrey's thoughts at this point. If you do some public action with Mac, Aubrey is seen to be watching you. I couldn't place the feelings she was meant to portray, but it might have been some form of disdain or jealousy. Again, I couldn't tell, but she didn't look exactly pleased. I mean, the developers didn't have her walk around the corner and diddle herself or anything.

A game playing as a character like Kelly might be pretty interesting now that you mention it. My Employee's Family touches on that concept a bit, but not on the complete scale that you are talking about.

 

[Pizzapockets]

Hi don't know if this is one of those games where the dev checks the thread but your not using the right word in describing rebuilding the warehouse. you want you use the word Reno/Renovate or instead Rehab. the word rehab is primarily used for people recovering from alcohol or drug use and doesn't fit the way your using it. Your dialog is good it's just the usage of rehab throws it completely off.

 

[hatefuldisplay]

Hi don't know if this is one of those games where the dev checks the thread but your not using the right word in describing rebuilding the warehouse. you want you use the word Reno/Renovate or instead Rehab. the word rehab is primarily used for people recovering from alcohol or drug use and doesn't fit the way your using it. Your dialog is good it's just the usage of rehab throws it completely off.

You had me curious so I dug around a bit. Yes. The devs do check in on this thread.

Rehabilitation is defined as the act or process of making possible a compatible use for a property through repair, alterations, and additions while preserving those portions or features which convey its historical, cultural, or architectural values.

Restoration is the process in which you return the building to its original condition. Historic buildings are common sites for restoration projects, but modern buildings also undergo restoration as well.

Renovation is the process of renewing a building or structure by fixing what's already present—and in some cases, adding new components.

Remodeling involves changing an entire room or building.
Remodeling tends to be a much more involved process than restoring or renovating, as it involves making changes to a building's structure.

I'm not sure that helps at all....

 

[Jstforme]

I am unsure about Aubrey's thoughts at this point. If you do some public action with Mac, Aubrey is seen to be watching you. I couldn't place the feelings she was meant to portray, but it might have been some form of disdain or jealousy. Again, I couldn't tell, but she didn't look exactly pleased. I mean, the developers didn't have her walk around the corner and diddle herself or anything.

A game playing as a character like Kelly might be pretty interesting now that you mention it. My Employee's Family touches on that concept a bit, but not on the complete scale that you are talking about.

It's interpretation at this point, as we haven't really got much inner monologue for Aubrey, but on the surface, she cares for him like a good friend, or maybe even a brother; more or less spelled out to the MC that she's not interested sexually.
One talk toward the end of this update, when she was talking trash about his cars paint job, basically calling him low class, and she doesn't associate with people like that; then telling him she wants to start a new relationship with her new business partner; I was hoping for an option where we could move out of her place.
When I saw her standing there at the end of this update, I was thinking to myself "what the fuck does she care, go call your new lesbian friend"

I'm really tempted to learn how to make one of these games, I think a game featuring a MC like Kelly would be a refreshing change to the MC's of late.

 

[Sunflare]

Is there something off with Joyce scene in Daddy route? You have some CGs of her blowing you then an image of Smecker and right after Rachel tlak to you. Some images are missing?

 

[hatefuldisplay]

Is there something off with Joyce scene in Daddy route? You have some CGs of her blowing you then an image of Smecker and right after Rachel tlak to you. Some images are missing?

It did feel a bit rushed when I did the same. I hadn't really put much thought into it. Both the scene with her and the one with Mac seemed pretty short. I'm not sure if the concept of both was to let you know people were watching you. Being caught with Joyce could provide some serious danger later on where as being caught with Mac will most likely lead to drama.

 

[laeg]

A game playing as a character like Kelly might be pretty interesting now that you mention it. My Employee's Family touches on that concept a bit, but not on the complete scale that you are talking about.

i must only agree, from this point it would be much better if kelly was MC instead of whatewer "pathetic" beeing is mc right now...

 

[GraphicusRex]

To Sunflare and hatefuldisplay:
The scenes with Joyce where Smecker spots you, as well as the interaction with Mac in the bar, could probably be fleshed out a bit more, it's true. I'm pretty sure we were being hit with some serious "good god why isn't this DONE yet?" vibes at the time we were dealing with it. I don't see us putting out a new version with more added there any time soon, but we'll consider updating that segment for later versions.

To Everyone Who Is Worried That Aubrey Is Unbangable:
At the start of Day 3, Kelly and Smecker / Greenley talk about how Aubrey and the MC are getting along. Depending on how you're doing on that front determines how positive or pathetic Smeckley describes your situation. We added that (as well as the interday stat screens) to help people have an idea of how they're doing, but since people are still worried about it, I'll just say this right here - we do not intend for Aubrey to be an unwinnable love interest. Yes, she's bi, and yes, she has some interest in Sabrina. Please note there are also love interest stats for Sabrina. Without stating any specifics, we want to try to allow for several possible outcomes regarding that particular trio of characters.

-Coding Guy

 

[GraphicusRex]

By the way, question for everyone who's played the latest version: does anyone have feedback on the animations? While Poncho's DAZ skills have improved tremendously since we started this project, we're both still learning here, and no one's said a word about those so far.

-Coding Guy

 

[Jstforme]

By the way, question for everyone who's played the latest version: does anyone have feedback on the animations? While Poncho's DAZ skills have improved tremendously since we started this project, we're both still learning here, and no one's said a word about those so far.

-Coding Guy

I've noticed the improvements, and it's definitely better than original release. Aubrey however still seems a little weird at times, her hair looks like she has a fan following her around wherever she goes, but it's easy enough to ignore in most cases. Honestly, the animations are good enough now, that it all boils down to the story.
Lots of us still have bad taste in our mouths from prior games (most already listed by others already) with weak/unrelatable MC's going up against a big bad guy so powerful, that even god would be jealous of. I think that's why the discussion has been focused on that, rather than animations.

 

[Look-see]

By the way, question for everyone who's played the latest version: does anyone have feedback on the animations? While Poncho's DAZ skills have improved tremendously since we started this project, we're both still learning here, and no one's said a word about those so far.

-Coding Guy

in regards to the Sheena animations i thought they were good. but it was either a slight posing problem or a view problem.

the missionary wasnt bad for what we saw.

Doggystyle- being able to see her face would've been nice.

On side- wouldve been better if we couldve seen the whole body or at least where their bits connect. it kinda gave me the impression you avoided that purposefully because you got the movement right but if you showed that part we'd see the models arent where they need to be to make sense. (MC would be banging the air for example.)

 

[Sunflare]

My comment about Joyce scene is mainly about the end. It is not a big deal but there is no transition, 1 image you are spotted by Smecker and next one you speak to Rachel, nothing to show that joyce left/goodbye or something to explain why Rachel is here