VN Ren'Py Earth Girls [v0.29] [Lydcreations]

[goobdoob]

Thank you for your suggestions.

I like to provide replay ability, but my main goal is to provide players with meaningful choices. Say a player really likes 5 girls and the others not so much. I'm trying to provide choices that let players pursue the girls they like the most. The choices is also largely about strategy. Should I take sports to improve my athletic stat or Photography to improve my fashion stat? The class choices is how the stats are built. And the stats are needed to progress with the girls who each have different stat preferences. When the player progresses with a girl, they are awarded points. How the player manages their choices will determine how many points they score and thus if they win the game. I don't see how I could preserve this strategy in using a format to show all content.

I'm not familiar with a scene viewer. I'm fairly new to Renpy as I have used Rags in the past to make games. I've seen galleries for images that unlock when an image is shown in the game. Of course, this wouldn't address missing scenes. I'm still learning to code the non basics in Renpy.

Replay and gallery docs here:

You must be registered to see the links

 

[dce8383]

My game follows traditional dating sim format. That is, the player chooses what class to attend based on what stat that they want to increase. For example, attend English Lit to increase charm. I have a stat bar across the top of the screen to show that attending English Lit increases the charm stat. Should I include within the text charm increase +1 for attending English Lit to make the stat gain more clear? I also have interactions with the girls to increase the relationship level. The player creates a journal after meeting all the girls that tracks info on each girl similar to the stat bar. Should I also include in the text relationship increase +1 after interacting with a girl ? I'm working on an interaction system where the player would select a girl that they would like to interact with. Then choose say the talk options. The talk options will provide talk options such as art, books, etc. The girls will comment on the topic the player selects and the relationship level will increase or decrease based on the girls interest in said topic. Would these changes address the confusion? The goal of the game is to build the relationship level with the girls to become more intimate with them and being more successful in doing so than the Eternals champion. This is shown by the player score and the Eternals score in the stat bar.

I'm seeing that you have put a huge amount of thought into the interactions and story; however, the presentation to a first time player is as I described earlier (jumping around, hard to follow, no idea what the choices mean). A "sandbox" style game (by which I mean a daily or weekly schedule that repeats endlessly and the player can choose what happens at each time period) would help provide a framework for exploring the world and meeting the key players. If you want to restrict play time, build into the story a time limit (say 5 days), in which the player can meet the girls, learn about their personalities and history with the MC, and then make choices to further relationships with the girl(s) of their choice.

A method I've seen used elsewhere is to have a dialog or action choice that fails but gives a hint as to why. For example, if the "charm" stat is too low, the MC's words would be obviously bad, and the girl would react badly to it, followed by the MC thinking to himself that maybe attending the English Lit class would help with his word choices. Next day, after the MC attends the class and the charm stat increased, the same choice with the girl would have a new outcome where the girl was impressed and the relationship increased.

I don't follow how a sandbox style would improve the game or how providing choices for strategy is labeled as making it difficult to see content. The player gets to choose from Religion or Chemistry as their first class. Going to Religion class for example, the player learns that the girl Britney introduced as Sharon in the school hall on the morning of their first day prefers to be called Lincy. Choosing to interact with Lincy in the school hall after class provides a scene later in which the player will overhear Lincy on the phone. These are examples of meaningful choices that would be lost in a sandbox style that my understanding of the style is to show all content. The choices allow the player to choose how they will play the game. Will they focus on the girls in the Religion class and thus won't be as close to the other girls? Which classeses will the player attend and how will these choices affect their succees with the girls. Having the player be able to attend all classes removes the strategy. The goal of the game is to score more points than the Eternals. The strategy the player uses will determine if they will succeed. I don't follow how I could keep this strategy while using a sandbox format. Please let me know if I'm missing something. I would like to improve my game and properly understand player feedback so that I can make my game better.

In your example about Lincy (which I still don't understand as a story point), how is the player supposed to know about anything that's being revealed by the choice? The game gives glimpses, without any foundation... the average player (myself included) doesn't really remember one girl out of all the others the first, second or even third time she shows up. From the glimpses we see, it's very hard to understand how a choice relates to a girl, stats or the game the Eternals are playing.

Maybe a better format for the game would be initially a sandbox with repeating days and as many interactions as the player wants. During this phase, the player can learn about each of the girls understand the regular world and how school works, maybe build some initial stat and relationship points to see that mechanic. Then, once some threshold or specific choice is made, the game as you currently envision it could start, with a clear deadline and set of events and goals. That way, the glimpses we see now will have a context and the choices we make are at least somewhat understood. Adding in hints about what's needed for an event would be even better.

Good luck!

 

[Venoma]

Maybe a better format for the game would be initially a sandbox with repeating days and as many interactions as the player wants. During this phase, the player can learn about each of the girls understand the regular world and how school works, maybe build some initial stat and relationship points to see that mechanic. Then, once some threshold or specific choice is made, the game as you currently envision it could start, with a clear deadline and set of events and goals. That way, the glimpses we see now will have a context and the choices we make are at least somewhat understood. Adding in hints about what's needed for an event would be even better.

After sitting down for a playthrough (the dev's interaction here made me feel it was worth it), I'm going to agree there. I understand the stated vision intent here, but I think as a whole the game is getting too caught up in the broad sense of striving for meaningful choices and potential replay value to an extent that the actual game play (which should matter above all else) ends up suffering as a consequence. That is before even getting into the down the road concern that this game will be deemed all but unplayable for many checking in without tediously following a walkthrough step by step....which is never a good thing either.

Bottomline - the theme of the game and setting is just screaming for a more tried and true sandbox elements approach imo.

 

[ut1stgear]

After sitting down for a playthrough (the dev's interaction here made me feel it was worth it), I'm going to agree there. I understand the stated vision intent here, but I think as a whole the game is getting too caught up in the broad sense of striving for meaningful choices and potential replay value to an extent that the actual game play (which should matter above all else) ends up suffering as a consequence. That is before even getting into the down the road concern that this game will be deemed all but unplayable for many checking in without tediously following a walkthrough step by step....which is never a good thing either.

Bottomline - the theme of the game and setting is just screaming for a more tried and true sandbox elements approach imo.

A lot of games on here no matter what the engine is are sandbox which tend to become very grindy, some to the extreme. very few of those find a way to strike that balance, especially on the first try.

 

[istlover08]

A lot of games on here no matter what the engine is are sandbox which tend to become very grindy, some to the extreme. very few of those find a way to strike that balance, especially on the first try.

true but grindy is better in every way than confusion or lack of information also tbh this game already feels like it would be quite grindy

 

[lydcreations]

I'm not super familiar with the inner workings (I was a programmer years ago, but never python and I haven't looked into how renpy works much) but I imagine a scene viewer works very similar to a gallery (From the user side they're pretty much identical) I know there are a couple people on this forum who've made gallery mods for other games, so you could probably find some good help in the dev section here. (If that's something you choose to pursue)

To clarify, a scene viewer would show choices the player didn't select. I presume that I wouldn't need to include classroom interactions that weren't chosen. So a scene viewer would play Lincy's phone conversation from start to finish if it wasn't chosen during the game? If there are an average of say 3 such scenes a day, these would quickly start to add up. Would players be interested in watching 20+ scene views that would accumulate in just a week of game time? And wouldn't the scene views loose something as they are being played outside of the game context?

 

[lydcreations]

I'm seeing that you have put a huge amount of thought into the interactions and story; however, the presentation to a first time player is as I described earlier (jumping around, hard to follow, no idea what the choices mean). A "sandbox" style game (by which I mean a daily or weekly schedule that repeats endlessly and the player can choose what happens at each time period) would help provide a framework for exploring the world and meeting the key players. If you want to restrict play time, build into the story a time limit (say 5 days), in which the player can meet the girls, learn about their personalities and history with the MC, and then make choices to further relationships with the girl(s) of their choice.

Sorry, but I'm confused. It sounds like you are suggesting a repeating framework. I see my game as having a repeating framework. 1. Early morning Julia arrives for the MC wake up call. 2. Player class choice between Religion & Chemistry. The stat bar shows the MC info but I could add in the text what effect taking the class has. 3. Between class interaction with a choice between 2 girls. 4. Class 2 English & Marketing. 5. Between class interaction with a choice between 2 girls. 4. Class 3 Sports & Photography. 5 Class 4 Free period & Art. And so forth in a repeating pattern. So it seems to me like I have what you are suggesting but I'm clearing missing the differences. The classes or to build the player stats. The interactions with the girls are to get to know more about them and build the relationship level.

A method I've seen used elsewhere is to have a dialog or action choice that fails but gives a hint as to why. For example, if the "charm" stat is too low, the MC's words would be obviously bad, and the girl would react badly to it, followed by the MC thinking to himself that maybe attending the English Lit class would help with his word choices. Next day, after the MC attends the class and the charm stat increased, the same choice with the girl would have a new outcome where the girl was impressed and the relationship increased.

I'll keep in mind to include indications like you suggest to let players know why an action didn't have a good outcome.

In your example about Lincy (which I still don't understand as a story point), how is the player supposed to know about anything that's being revealed by the choice? The game gives glimpses, without any foundation... the average player (myself included) doesn't really remember one girl out of all the others the first, second or even third time she shows up. From the glimpses we see, it's very hard to understand how a choice relates to a girl, stats or the game the Eternals are playing.

My intent is that the girls attending a class indicate she likes the stat associated with the class. Thus taking the class helps the player advance in his relationship with her. Choosing to interact with a girl between classes is a way to get closer with the girl chosen. The example I provided shows how taking Religion class with Lincy attends helps the player when he later chooses to interact with Lincy between classes because he has the increased stat that she likes.

Maybe a better format for the game would be initially a sandbox with repeating days and as many interactions as the player wants. During this phase, the player can learn about each of the girls understand the regular world and how school works, maybe build some initial stat and relationship points to see that mechanic. Then, once some threshold or specific choice is made, the game as you currently envision it could start, with a clear deadline and set of events and goals. That way, the glimpses we see now will have a context and the choices we make are at least somewhat understood. Adding in hints about what's needed for an event would be even better.

Good luck!

Confused as to why the current repeating of classes and between class interactions is not providing the repetition you mention to show the mechanics. The player does start with zero stats so I haven't done to many stat related actions on day one in particular as many would fail due to this. Perhaps if I include text that says the stat result of taking a class or interacting with a girl will make this more clear? Currently I leave the stat changes to be reflected by the stat bar. And to include comments in the text like you suggest that let players know why an action succeeded or failed.

 

[lydcreations]

After sitting down for a playthrough (the dev's interaction here made me feel it was worth it), I'm going to agree there. I understand the stated vision intent here, but I think as a whole the game is getting too caught up in the broad sense of striving for meaningful choices and potential replay value to an extent that the actual game play (which should matter above all else) ends up suffering as a consequence.

I'm trying to follow what changes to the framework people are looking for when they suggest a sand box. The classes schedule repeats each day with a choice between 2 subjects so that players can have choices as to which stat they prefer to build. As I've mentioned, I believe this provides a good amount of strategy. This provides a repeating structure that it sounds like players are interested in. The between class interactions with the girls has more variety so that more than just the same girls are available to interact with.

So are players okay with the class schedule or do they want to attend all the classes? I have the impression it is the interactions with the girls that players are not wanting to miss. So, if the format was changed so that all classes and interactions are seen, my concern is the lost strategy. The goal of the game is to defeat the Eternals. What variables remain in place for the player to effect a winning outcome if class stats are predetermined by a set schedule? And most of the interactions with the girls as part of showing each scene? As a player, I would like to have input on whether I win the contest. The best way I can see to do that is by the strategy choices. I'm hoping to get a good understanding of the issues with my game so that I can improve it and make it more interesting for players.

That is before even getting into the down the road concern that this game will be deemed all but unplayable for many checking in without tediously following a walkthrough step by step....which is never a good thing either.

I hope players won't need a walkthrough either. My concept is that a player who likes say Julia will attend the classes that Julia is in, select between class events with Julia, and after school events with Julia. Julia isn't always available, so their second girl could be Charlie. And so forth. Or a player may prefer a harem approach. Despite the approach, a player will see which classes and interactions involve which girls so many of the choices are straight forward player preferences.

Bottomline - the theme of the game and setting is just screaming for a more tried and true sandbox elements approach imo.

I appreciate your sharing your thoughts. I'm trying to make sure that I follow each players suggestions and determine how I can include them to make my game better.

 

[lydcreations]

true but grindy is better in every way than confusion or lack of information also tbh this game already feels like it would be quite grindy

With everyone's feedback, I'm looking to address the confusion/lack of info matters. The game format is a dating sim, so it does depend on stats. However, I will also being telling the stories of each girl as part of the character interactions. In this way, a girl becomes Britney instead of just the blonde cheerleader character. Hopefully discovering each girl's stories will become the heart of the game and capture the player's interest.

 

[tigerdiamond]

To clarify, a scene viewer would show choices the player didn't select. I presume that I wouldn't need to include classroom interactions that weren't chosen. So a scene viewer would play Lincy's phone conversation from start to finish if it wasn't chosen during the game? If there are an average of say 3 such scenes a day, these would quickly start to add up. Would players be interested in watching 20+ scene views that would accumulate in just a week of game time? And wouldn't the scene views loose something as they are being played outside of the game context?

To clarify, scene viewers generally only include the lewd scenes

 

[ut1stgear]

true but grindy is better in every way than confusion or lack of information also tbh this game already feels like it would be quite grindy

I was only commenting about sandbox in general since I haven't played this yet so I don't really know anything about what the dev has done. I don't mind grindy if kept to a minor to medium range but when it gets to being ridiculous it's no better than what people are referring to in this game. I usually dump overly confusing and/or overly grindy games. Don't want to spend weeks of game play for either unless I have a clue that the story is worth it.

 

[RaevenDarc]

answer : "a living pussy"

(reference to the question mark on the title...)

Or that really bad late night soft core porn Movie...... Earth Girls are easy. Which I hope to god it is not

 

[lydcreations]

Or that really bad late night soft core porn Movie...... Earth Girls are easy. Which I hope to god it is not

The game has nothing to do with the movie.

 

[RaevenDarc]

The game has nothing to do with the movie.

Sweet. Forgive me! Just ran through it. It is a good game. And a whole lot better than that movie.

 

[Legendary101]

Admittedly, I got more and more disinterested towards the end as time went on, so I was not at my full attention. I blame it on the game being so jumpy scene wise and an overload of a plot I thought was straight forward. Ok, I think 60% of all the plot lines you added could of been removed and it still would not have taken away from the main story you wanted to tell.

You added in some computer world, a dog helper who thinks the game world is real ........ I think ..... julia halia ....... wtf ...some jumpy scenes into other scenes and dream worlds with a light saber that controls dreams ......... I mean what. Chet who can alter people I think..... and I can fight his altering in a dream world.


I thought it was going to be some dating game in a school and you compete to win the worlds salvation on a level playing field. It feels to me all this dream worlds and computer worlds and dog guide and light sabers and adding to a bloated plot is all unnecessary ?? You could be in the school just romancing the woman and all this other stuff would be unneeded, just a school romance dating sim against chet. You get the same outcome without overburdening the plot. I mean dream worlds and light sabers and dog guides just seemed an odd choice and adding layers of confusion that should be something straight forward.

I don't know, just seemed very messy, jumpy and a lot of plot threads overburdening it. I would need to really sit down and focus to leave a review. I won't be leaving one, but this is just a post to say how I felt at least playing it.

 

[lydcreations]

Sweet. Forgive me! Just ran through it. It is a good game. And a whole lot better than that movie.

Thanks. I'm glad that you liked it.

 

[lydcreations]

Admittedly, I got more and more disinterested towards the end as time went on, so I was not at my full attention. I blame it on the game being so jumpy scene wise and an overload of a plot I thought was straight forward. Ok, I think 60% of all the plot lines you added could of been removed and it still would not have taken away from the main story you wanted to tell.

Thank you for your feedback. I'm trying to follow the jumpy impression so that I can address it. The game structure provides choices of classes to attend with hallway interactions between classes. The player attends the classes of their choice to improve their stats. The hallway interactions are to increase the relationship with the girls. I'm adding text that will show the stat or relationship increase gain from these scenes. Will showing the results of these scenes make them feel less jumpy? The scenes aren't short, so I'm not sure why they give the jumpy impression.

You added in some computer world, a dog helper who thinks the game world is real ........ I think ..... julia halia ....... wtf ...some jumpy scenes into other scenes and dream worlds with a light saber that controls dreams ......... I mean what. Chet who can alter people I think..... and I can fight his altering in a dream world.


I thought it was going to be some dating game in a school and you compete to win the worlds salvation on a level playing field. It feels to me all this dream worlds and computer worlds and dog guide and light sabers and adding to a bloated plot is all unnecessary ?? You could be in the school just romancing the woman and all this other stuff would be unneeded, just a school romance dating sim against chet. You get the same outcome without overburdening the plot. I mean dream worlds and light sabers and dog guides just seemed an odd choice and adding layers of confusion that should be something straight forward.

I don't know, just seemed very messy, jumpy and a lot of plot threads overburdening it. I would need to really sit down and focus to leave a review. I won't be leaving one, but this is just a post to say how I felt at least playing it.

The extra elements you mention were about adding humor and making my game different from other dating sims. It does provide for a full plot and can be confusing. I'll give your suggestions some thought. Perhaps some combination of removing elements and bringing in others more slowly would improve the game.

 

[Cernunnos.]

Story is an interesting one and the models are (mostly) nice but I felt like I was flailing my way through the entire playthrough which isn't conducive to further play. Good luck with the project.

 

[lydcreations]

Story is an interesting one and the models are (mostly) nice

Thanks for your post. Good to hear that you liked the story and most of the models. Are there particular issues with some of the models? Or is it personal preference, such as blondes or brunettes?

but I felt like I was flailing my way through the entire playthrough which isn't conducive to further play. Good luck with the project.

I've been working on revising my game to improve renders, clarify material, and address various player feedback. I'm currently working on V0.11. The framework of the game is a dating sim in which the player can choose which classes to attend. In this way, they can determine which stats they improve, as well as which girls that they interact with. As the game progresses, stats and relationship level provide for additional scene options and unlock new locations.

To clarify, does your comment mean that you would like more guidance as to the goals of the game and the various MC options? I've revised the intro to provide an explanation of the interface as well as a short tutorial for the game. I hope these are helpful. The game follows traditional dating sims. The MC attends classes to improve his stats and interacts with girls to improve the relationship level. Higher MC stats allow for additional scene options and causes the girls to become more attracted to the MC. A higher relationship level with the girls will increase options with them and unlock new locations. I've created a new conversation interface for talking to the girls that lets the MC learn what stats the girl likes and dislikes.

 

[Osamabeenfappin]

Anyone know when the next update is due.