VN Ren'Py Abandoned Ecchi Sensei [Day 22-23 Final] [BlueCat]

[me130]

Where can I see the github repo that's mentioned in the patreon post? I'm a programmer (A shit one) but at least I can look at the code and get a sense of what work is being done that requires a year of just refactoring the game. Then to find out that the engine(?) itself needed to be forked for what? Saves? I'm so confused all you need to do is create a datafile with the objects/variables and write it to hdd which pretty much any game engine does. What does this game need that specifically that an engine fork is needed?

Anyway if someone can link their github page or whatever code repo they have I'd be grateful.

 

[baloneysammich]

But it is sad, that Bluecat's creativity is mangled by at least one team member being so inept and yet receiving so much leeway.

While I'm particularly critical of the programmers, I'm not sure BlueCat is exactly a victim here. Very early on he was dreaming of a whole Ecchi Sensei franchise:

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Also consider his choice of medium:

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And the fact he seems singularly determined to create or improve upon features few people care about:

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Along with some other things I can't point my finger at, I don't think pragmatism is one of BC's virtues. So I can imagine that his vision of ES represents a constantly moving target that would challenge even experienced programmers.

 

[literaloxygen]

the big challenge lies in Ren'Py itself — It's necessary to disassemble the core code of the engine because of our new storage system.

I really hope this is a translation error. Disassembling code means taking a closed-source binary and turning it into (minimally readable at best) source code, usually for the purpose of reverse-engineering it to figure out how it works. It's not something you would ever do for open-source code like RenPy. (I have a graduate degree in comp sci, and I used to routinely disassemble things.)

Like I said, maybe this is a translation error, since BlueCat is German. I'm generally a patient person, and I haven't been too stressed about the delays; I know shit happens in this field. (I am also not a Patron, so I have no basis to be unhappy about delays.) But the above quote definitely raised my eyebrow. Skummy, if you happen to have BlueCat's ear and it's not too much bother for you or him, would you be able to ask him to clarify what he meant here?

 

[baloneysammich]

Where can I see the github repo that's mentioned in the patreon post?

AFAIK the repo isn't public. What's being referred to is a Discord channel which AFAIK is only accessible to patrons. And I imagine just consists of commit messages or something similar.

I realize this is all conjecture, but I share your interest and this is the best I can figure.

 

[Dragon59]

Along with some other things I can't point my finger at, I don't think pragmatism is one of BC's virtues. So I can imagine that his vision of ES represents a constantly moving target that would challenge even experienced programmers.

I'm hoping that when I start making my own project, I will have learned from developer stumbles I've seen to avoid the most obvious pitfalls.

 

[Smarmint]

I'm hoping that when I start making my own project, I will have learned from developer stumbles I've seen to avoid the most obvious pitfalls.

I am not a game developer, but I program in Python and several other languages for a living. I think with everything, the best advice as a beginner is to keep it simple, and to not try to reinvent the wheel. Whatever you want to do, especially as a beginner, has been done many times before, and much of the code is available online, for free.

After you have lots of projects under your belt, then try to tweak things if absolutely necessary.

RenPy does most things for you, which is why there are so many low effort games released every day. Look at F95, there are at least 20 games released a day, about 50% or more in RenPy. 90% of the games just have a custom main menu graphic, with everything else totally stock RenPy.

I wish someone from the Ecchi Sensi team would take all of our advice, but clearly they are antagonistic toward anyone telling them what they should do. They should just make a workable game using the built in tools, and after everything is solid, add in more features if they want, and if they have the expertise to do it.

Since BlueCat clearly isn't a programmer, he needs to take control of his own game. Even with the declining donations, he has plenty of funds each month to get a new programmer. Give someone $500 a week, and they will have the merge done in a few weeks. Or even better, BlueCat can learn it himself in a few weeks of online training.

That is what baffles me so much about this project. RenPy is very simple, and Python is one of the simpler programing languages, compared to Java or C. And there are tons of tutorials online to walk you through everything. Plus, this game is simpler than most with no choices other than "see scene" or "skip scene". No long term variables needed. Ecchi Sensi is just about the simplest RenPy game I have ever played, so all the claims about the complexity of the code, don't make any sense.

Everyone has their opinion, but I think it is all a smokescreen to distract from what is really going on, which only BlueCat really knows. Maybe someday he will tell all his Patrons the truth.

 

[Dragon59]

I am not a game developer, but I program in Python and several other languages for a living. I think with everything, the best advice as a beginner is to keep it simple, and to not try to reinvent the wheel. Whatever you want to do, especially as a beginner, has been done many times before, and much of the code is available online, for free.

After you have lots of projects under your belt, then try to tweak things if absolutely necessary.

RenPy does most things for you, which is why there are so many low effort games released every day. Look at F95, there are at least 20 games released a day, about 50% or more in RenPy. 90% of the games just have a custom main menu graphic, with everything else totally stock RenPy.

Thanks for the advice. I'll take it to heart.

 

[baloneysammich]

Plus, this game is simpler than most with no choices other than "see scene" or "skip scene". No long term variables needed.

Isn't there enough to criticize about this game without resorting to hyperbole?

 

[Smarmint]

Isn't there enough to criticize about this game without resorting to hyperbole?

I like Ecchi Sensei. Too much for what is going on, unfortunately. I hope that all of us can be proven wrong one day, and that we will login and see a surprise update, with new content.

But, what did I say that wasn't correct? Are there any choices other than "see scene" or "skip scene"? Sure, Bluecat uses different language like "Visit Mao's Room" or "Go To Bed", but basically each choice is just to see a particular scene or not. Occasionally there will be a choice of two different scenes presented to the player, but none of the choices, as far as I can tell from the gameplay, affect anything other than the current moment. So no need to track a lot of long-term player variables.

If I missed something, and there are long term choices that I just forgot about, since it has been awhile, than I will stand corrected. My only point was that the status updates try to make it sound like Ecchi Sensei is an especially complex game, which is why so much re-coding is needed. My point is just that ES seems very simple compared to other RenPy games. The only thing "special" that I can discern are the bios, which is fairly basic, and the phone, which is done in many, many RenPy games without issues.

Look, I don't want to sound like a broken record (too late probably). I honestly hope for success for Ecchi Sensei. It is not the absolute greatest game here, but it is honestly quite fun to play, and I enjoy the large variety of characters, and the story. I just wish the devs were straight with the fans. Just tell us that he wants to take 10 months off to learn Japanese, or travel, or work on another job, or whatever. Or admit that he doesn't know what to do next, that he has writer's block, or whatever the issue is, and that he hopes he can get back to it. Or that a team member took all the code, and won't give it back to him, or whatever the real problem is. But what we are being told, at least his paying supporters on Patreon, about how the code is so complicated that it takes nearly a year to "merge" everything together, makes no logical sense, and it hasn't since January when he told everyone that the merge was almost complete.

 

[Dragon59]

Look, I don't want to sound like a broken record (too late probably).

Wait, what?
You're old enough to know what a broken record sounds like?

 

[Smarmint]

You're old enough to know what a broken record sounds like?

Haha. Barely! I played some of my parents old records growing up, mostly Elton John and the Beach Boys, but by the time I had my own money, I bought all my music in cassette tapes. Eventually, I saved up enough from my after-school job to buy a compact disk player. Which I think cost about $400,. It was quite an upgrade to cassette tapes. No more rewinding!

 

[baloneysammich]

But, what did I say that wasn't correct? Are there any choices other than "see scene" or "skip scene"? Sure, Bluecat uses different language like "Visit Mao's Room" or "Go To Bed", but basically each choice is just to see a particular scene or not. Occasionally there will be a choice of two different scenes presented to the player, but none of the choices, as far as I can tell from the gameplay, affect anything other than the current moment. So no need to track a lot of long-term player variables.

I'm not making a case for complexity here, but for example there are the character routes with Fuyu and Himiko, how you handle Christa's secret, whether or not to indulge Nanami's fetish, whether or not you visit Satomi in the club, etc.

In fact, given that they currently track choices with variables like d1d1 (ie. day 1 decision 1), it's easy to find that in D10_11.rpy for example there are over 20 references to previous days' decisions.* Even if the implications are minor or even trivial, they're being used regardless.

* Full disclosure, that seems to be an outlier but it happened to be the first I checked.

My only point was that the status updates try to make it sound like Ecchi Sensei is an especially complex game, which is why so much re-coding is needed.

Meanwhile, to me the updates sound like the genuine perspective of amateurs who are "trying to solve a problem with the same kind of thinking that created it." Granted I didn't start paying close attention to the updates until after reading Skummy's "incompetence defense" and learning that... well, let's just say learning something else that IMO bolstered his case. So maybe I'm guilty of confirmation bias.

 

[Dukez]

Surely they aren't rewriting the engine core to accomodate some storage system changes, which apparently are tied to saves? Like what the... just learn to code properly and be smart with what actually needs saving and what it should do when it opens that save.

They unironically could've started from scratch and just copy/pasted pictures & dialogue text and it would be done MONTHS ago. Heck they could've even changed engines to UE4, learn how that engine works, built a full visual novel system for said game, taken advantage of the Oodle compression for smaller game size on all those pictures as a side benefit (and hopefully UE4's blueprints forcing them to write data smarter) and they'd come out ahead of where they are currently.

I bet they will have even more problems in the future, god forbid if the current coder leaves (probably should've been replaced anyway if that's their solution) and gives them a mess for someone else to try and fix.

 

[locomotor79]

is this game still alive even though there patreon gets update's but only paying members can read it

 

[Nikeee]

They're trying to rewrite Renpy lmao. Just a bunch of retards.

 

[msr9568]

Qusestion is what version of the Rona will we be on by the time of the next release lol

 

[blackpowerman]

damn dude, their patrons fell OFF

if they couldn't get an update out for 6k a month they sure as hell aint getting it for 3k

let all software devs learn from this: Learn what people like about your stuff, and then do more of that

you make a gonzo incest porn game, no one cares if you have dynamic porn camera angles (which is nearly impossible in renpy as it stands). They just care if you fuck everyone in a 100 mile radius of the town

 

[Sam10]

is there a DM patch for halloween 2020?

 

[RandoCard3]

is there a DM patch for halloween 2020?

Yeah, it's the latest one.

 

[BiggySmall]

How do I get the DM patch for the Valentine Special? Or is the Valentine Special in one of the weeks as a flashback?