VN Ren'Py Abandoned Ecchi Sensei [Day 22-23 Final] [BlueCat]

[Deleted member 1471]

Alright, guys. For those of us that are regulars around here, I would like to hear everyone's best estimate.
...
Let's hear everyone's best estimate.

0%.

Clusterfucks like this don't turn around, in my experience. Losses are cut, assets are salvaged, communication dwindles, and doors close. You need to start a project with a strong core team if you want any chance of recovering from a momentum loss of this magnitude.

Starting with a weak, inexperienced team? Starting with THIS incompetent team? Forget about it. This is their first project. They fucked up. Here's to the next one.

 

[Smarmint]

I think this is basically what happened.

- The merge starts. Bluecat was legitimately working on other content while the merge was being coded.
- A little while later, the coders realized the game is a complete mess and they can't figure out how to do the new features.
- Bluecat then started posting about the delays and merge issues. However, he was still working on new content.
- Later. The coders realized this is unfixable, and they need to redo a lot of stuff. By this point, BC was pretty much done with the content he had planned to make.
- A little more times goes by....

And this is where the real issues start. BC and the team realized that they're still making a good bit of money, so let's drag this out a little more. I don't believe, not even a little, that they planned this whole thing from the start. That takes planning and competence. They fully intended to get the merge done and release new content shortly after, they have no prior history of being shady as far as I know. They just happened upon the fact that they don't actually have to do anything to make decent money.

And that's when the excuses start to pile up. Can't figure out the new features. Can't figure out the save system. Can't find translators. And they somehow have to recode renpy itself to make their stuff work. Which is completely nuts.

So, as of now, I think pretty much nothing has been done for a few months at least.

You are giving Bluecat a little more credit that I am, in that you think he actually has a decent amount of material he is sitting on, but this is quite plausible. To be fair, he released quite frequent and sizable updates at the start, so he can make content when he wants to.

Your assertion that the money was too good to pass up, so Bluecat is intentionally stalling, hits the nail on the head. While 90% of AVN games would never even start without the Patron model, it definitely encourages this type of manipulative, dishonest behavior.

Just look at all of Bluecat's very few quoted comments. He is dismissive at best, and outright hostile most of the time. Most devs would be begging for forgiveness and trying to win back his fans loyalty by pledging specific actions and following through on it, but not Bluecat! Plus he sends Skummy out to do his dirty work of passing on his fake excuses to keep the game from being marked abandoned, because Bluecat is afraid to speak for himself.

Unfortunately, the natural progression of many games seems to be quick and high quality updates at the beginning to build a large following and get the monthly Patron cash up, and then updates get slower and slower, as the devs procrastinate more and more, and realize that they make the same money whether they work or not. In fact, they make more money by not producing updates, because once the game is completed, the money ends, so economically, the incentive is to drag it out as long as humanly possible.

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

I thought MTL's were shit because the ones I used sucked astronomically with context, and all the games in the past I have play that used MTL's had the most engrish ass language. Why did I change my tune? Because someone who knows better than me told me that modern MTL software is better than years past and that I should look into it. I took the advice of someone who knows better than me, and passed it on to Bluecat. I'll own that I was biased to this shit, but if it works then I'd say that's fantastic and apologize for my comments.

 

[Deleted member 156769]

Not everyone is cut out to make a good porn game. Many of us, however, can fake it for a couple of months. Guys like BlueCat have some talent so their initial efforts get some success. But actually following through and making this a job rather than a hobby is something else.

It's hard to understand from the outside, when you see how much money rolls in for comparatively little effort; the porn game industry is a case of way too little supply for a humongous demand. But guys like BlueCat aren't here because they've got a business plan. They're here because they are so mentally unstable that they can't function in normal society. Most of their time and energy is spend on escapism and the search for easy dopamine. Making a porn game fits in that pathology. With patreon, and the huge unsatisfied need for porn games, guys like BlueCat luck out. Their addiction makes them money, and tons of it.

But BlueCat didn't start Ecchi Sensei to make money, he started it to escape from reality. And after a few months, it wasn't fun any more. Reality had seeped in, the pressure was on, and the dopamine got harder and harder to achieve. So he dipped out. Not consciously, at first. He figured the desire to continue would return, as so many like him do. So he made excuses. And once he realised he was never going to get back in the groove, the excuses became malevolent. Because the money was great.

Guys like BlueCat, addicted messes of psychopathology, don't have a lot of money. Nine out of ten won't be able to hold down a good job, if any at all. And what income they have they spend to fuel their addiction. So this considerable revenue is hard to turn away, even once it had clearly turned into outright stealing. Many porn game developers in the same boat as BlueCat, to their credit, will stop billing their patreons, or otherwise communicate that the project is on hold. But others are desperate enough to just keep it going until the money stops coming in. With the counter still above €2k a month, that moment is still some ways away.

So do I think BlueCat is sitting on some content? Not really. I think the last few updates were already a struggle to get out. Do I think he consciously planned this to happen? No, certainly not. However, I do believe he's conscious of it now, and fine with it, in so far as a crippled addict can be fine with anything in his life. So 0% for me.

 

[Bloodguard]

So do I think BlueCat is sitting on some content? Not really. I think the last few updates were already a struggle to get out. Do I think he consciously planned this to happen? No, certainly not. However, I do believe he's conscious of it now, and fine with it, in so far as a crippled addict can be fine with anything in his life

So, are you saying he is actually mentally ill? That's a bit disturbing, but hard to argue with your logic.
Some very successful Hollywood folks have OCD that borders on psychosis, but people just call it art at the end of the day, as long as it makes piles of money.
I really enjoyed parts of the game, but that could be because he was willing to go places with the story, someone who was not actually unhinged, would not be willing to go. Interesting theory.

 

[Deleted member 3482284]

Alright, guys. For those of us that are regulars around here, I would like to hear everyone's best estimate.

From 1 to 100%, in your mind, what is the likelihood that there is any significant new content at all; that Bluecat has actualy done anything at all to work on Ecchi Sensei over the last 16 months?

Is there any chance at all, in your opinion, that Bluecat has actually produced any new content as he claims, and is actually working on it, but just waiting for a translater (or whatever the delay reason of the month), or is everything from Bluecat and repeated by Skummy is just a smokescreen so Bluecat and Latecomer can collect as much Patron cash as long as possible?

I'll start:
Even if their Patreon drops to $100 a month, it is still free money. Bluecat and Latecomer will milk it until it goes down to under $100 a month.

Since nobody has seen a single line of dialog or a single image from the supposedly already created new content, nor has the merge been completed, which we have all seen can be done in an afternoon by a non-coder, my best estimate of the chance Bluecat has done anything for 16 months, and is working at all on on Ecchi Sensei now is:

2%

What about you all? Anyone out their with more faith than me? Are there any estimates as high as 10%? 20%? 50% or more?

Let's hear everyone's best estimate.

I was going to give it 2% but then I thought about it more

I'd give it 0%. I think Bluecat did a few renders well over a year ago that he gave to high tier patrons, but nothing else. Not a smidge. No story, no dialogues, no code

Otherwise there should be three or four ready made updates already, at least. Seeing as bluecat wasn't doing anything on the merge, it was latecomer and the other coder, the fact that one update isn't ready to be released (Which was a months worth of work on average) means he's had over a year to work on updates and has nothing to show for it

 

[graz150]

Alright, guys. For those of us that are regulars around here, I would like to hear everyone's best estimate.

From 1 to 100%, in your mind, what is the likelihood that there is any significant new content at all; that Bluecat has actualy done anything at all to work on Ecchi Sensei over the last 16 months?

Is there any chance at all, in your opinion, that Bluecat has actually produced any new content as he claims, and is actually working on it, but just waiting for a translater (or whatever the delay reason of the month), or is everything from Bluecat and repeated by Skummy is just a smokescreen so Bluecat and Latecomer can collect as much Patron cash as long as possible?

I'll start:
Even if their Patreon drops to $100 a month, it is still free money. Bluecat and Latecomer will milk it until it goes down to under $100 a month.

Since nobody has seen a single line of dialog or a single image from the supposedly already created new content, nor has the merge been completed, which we have all seen can be done in an afternoon by a non-coder, my best estimate of the chance Bluecat has done anything for 16 months, and is working at all on on Ecchi Sensei now is:

2%

What about you all? Anyone out their with more faith than me? Are there any estimates as high as 10%? 20%? 50% or more?

Let's hear everyone's best estimate.

I'm going to be that guy and say... 95%!
Sure, nothing worth 16 months of work, but at least 2-3 days worth of content and maybe some sketches for the next couple of days. Content could also be done but without proper story to link everything together.

Though, this could be the last signficant thing produced for this game.
In these 16 months, nothing was learned by BC, whether technical or relational.
That thing about him not seeing why he should post more technical updates after all this time, say it all.
If presented with the same issue later on (6th month merge?), it would result in the same debacle, if not bigger.
So I wouldn't risk a cent on this game's future, or BC future as a dev.

I hope BC realize that being confronted with all this while still under patreon welfare is a real blessing, because if it was after establishing some kind of company in another country, consequences for such a fuckup would have been disastreous and not laughing matters.
Not everyone has the opportunity to survive a crisis and learn from their mistakes, let alone do so while burning other people's money.

 

[Jeff221]

Just made the mistake of joining the Discord to see if there was any different information in there. Do not make my mistakes. Do not subject yourselves to cat related horrors I have seen.

 

[Dukez]

Alright, guys. For those of us that are regulars around here, I would like to hear everyone's best estimate.

From 1 to 100%, in your mind, what is the likelihood that there is any significant new content at all; that Bluecat has actualy done anything at all to work on Ecchi Sensei over the last 16 months?

Mine would be in line with whatever the abandonment rate of games here is, but since I don't know, I'd probably echo what someone earlier said as they were originally doing it, but then eventually stopped. I think there's like a 50% chance Bluecat has still done work past that point of milking it, and like a 10% chance we see a released product in the next 3 months. If we exceed that 10% chance on 3 months with no released product then I think the numbers go drastically down (queue steiner math).

You know what would be great instead of the card info bs system, if they put in work on expanding the customization options. Like... give us text with outlines, like every good game here has. I remember being constantly annoyed by this and none of the different backgrounds would help alleviate this either. Such a simple solution to a problem I find, but, well we would need to add another year on to get this one added in I'm sure.

Just look at all of Bluecat's very few quoted comments. He is dismissive at best, and outright hostile most of the time. Most devs would be begging for forgiveness and trying to win back his fans loyalty by pledging specific actions and following through on it, but not Bluecat!

There is actually a surprising amount of devs in the games industry that are cocky and defensive when it comes to their creations and not that open to feedback, and if you disagree it's just "don't play the game" etc (they also tend to not be that great at their job too). If we didn't know Bluecat was in Germany (or around there?) I would've assumed he was an American since this is where that sort of behavior in the industry is typically found lol.

 

[Deleted member 156769]

I agree - no mentally stable person would be capable of producing something like this game. But it probably also says something about the mental state of us who play the game, especially with some of the shit from the patches

I'm not ashamed to admit that I brought this game up, and Lain's mod for it in particular (please don't look it up), in therapy as an example of how deep I had sunk. This game crosses a few moral boundaries I never thought I'd cross. At the time I felt really bad about it, now I can see that it was just the logical escalation of an addicted need for shocking, exciting content.

I think plenty of people can and do enjoy this game without being addicted or depressed or whatever. But creating it... I don't think so.

Just my take on it though. I'm sure I'm projecting things and that the reality is different in many ways. In fact I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

 

[layer1avn]

However, I noticed from mid-week two onwards a general lack of inspiration. He started committing the sin of "Telling not showing" where it seemed like every second scene I was being told about something happening with a black screen to look at.

Narrator-kun started showing up in dialogue more and more as time went by. That was concerning even before I realized how long the game had been delayed.

 

[Bloodguard]

BUT TLDR; There's basically a 0% chance a game recovers from such a huge loss of momentum. Even if we get more content it will never be the Ecchi Sensei you or I remember after downloading when this first released.

Your infamous example has finally been hit with the abandoned tag, but that's probably cause the scummy Dev finally admitted he was abandoning it. BC is probably still far away from admitting this, as the money is still pretty good, but it seems to be the inevitable outcome.

 

[JTsmoothhands]

You are giving Bluecat a little more credit that I am, in that you think he actually has a decent amount of material he is sitting on, but this is quite plausible. To be fair, he released quite frequent and sizable updates at the start, so he can make content when he wants to.

I was a $50 a month contributor for a long time, I've seen the next two planned updates. The problem is these two update have been done(and give almost nothing new) for over a year. If he cared about the project he would A: already have about ten updates ready to drop once the coding is finished, or B: just do what literally every dev does and just keep making it with a part two with fixed code. Once you finish it go back and clean it all up

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

For the reason why we kept getting black screened:

Blue writes too much to be translated by humans effectively without burning them out, man just keeps writing and scripting out shit, granted he works a fine balance between everything in the good times. Thus he had to cut back content to ensure he didn't burn out his team with shit. Depending on how things shake out, we might see a return to that far more nuance storytelling he was doing before, dunno.

 

[ThaRealThiccShady]

For the reason why we kept getting black screened:

Blue writes too much to be translated by humans effectively without burning them out, man just keeps writing and scripting out shit, granted he works a fine balance between everything in the good times. Thus he had to cut back content to ensure he didn't burn out his team with shit. Depending on how things shake out, we might see a return to that far more nuance storytelling he was doing before, dunno.

 

[sheetkaroo]

Definitely not a regular, but as someone who has been a fan of multiple other games which have gone through this cycle I think that it is very likely that SOME work has been done, and that at some point an update will be released. Granted, I don't expect it to be very inspired, or well thought out.

For the most infamous example, milfy city has been dead or abandoned for a year+ how many times now?

The first week of this game was really top tier among all VNs on this site. Every scene was acted out by the characters, there was always dialog and story that had good flow and consistency. I think if you've never tried to tell a story like this its easy to not truly appreciate how hard it is to make a story with dialogue that flows nicely like this. However, I noticed from mid-week two onwards a general lack of inspiration. He started committing the sin of "Telling not showing" where it seemed like every second scene I was being told about something happening with a black screen to look at. The dialog got repetitive, the story elements were pushed to the wayside in favor of a treadmill of characters that you could never possibly make narrative arcs for. For example, you build up connections and stories with Kaede and Aki, and by far we spend more time in throwaway sex scenes with Satsune, or with random schoolgirl #45 who has no story relevance other than giving blowjobs in a public bathroom.

That being said, keeping up the kind of motivation that something like the first week of this VN would have taken, in my mind generally is very rare or nearly impossible.

That is sort of the key to all of these really good VNs. They start as genuine passion projects that are often just the escapism or fantasies of the writer/creator being put on the screen. I think it is more of a case that the money being so good is what keeps them around at all. At a certain point, whether from burnout or simple loss of passion for a project the creator doesn't actually want to do it anymore. Often times, however, the money is just too good to walk away from.

The honest thing would be to be up-front about this, and freeze payments until you want to continue working on the game, or pull the plug and delete the patreon altogether. Or hell, just give permission to someone else to continue making the game (if that person exists). But with the amount of money on the line, I think it becomes very easy to lie to yourself that its okay to keep the page open and that your few hours of work a week justifies it. That someday you'll be back to regular updates, that it's just a rough patch.

BUT TLDR; There's basically a 0% chance a game recovers from such a huge loss of momentum. Even if we get more content it will never be the Ecchi Sensei you or I remember after downloading when this first released.

What a shame. most likely this is what happened.

For the reason why we kept getting black screened:

Blue writes too much to be translated by humans effectively without burning them out, man just keeps writing and scripting out shit, granted he works a fine balance between everything in the good times. Thus he had to cut back content to ensure he didn't burn out his team with shit. Depending on how things shake out, we might see a return to that far more nuance storytelling he was doing before, dunno.

lmao. i can't tell if this is satire or real anymore.

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

Bruh its not that outlandish, if you've seen what Selebus outputs you'd have an idea just how much someone who is enthusiastic about their story can write for it. Now ask someone to translate that on a deadline, and you need to start trimming it back.

 

[ThaRealThiccShady]

Bruh its not that outlandish, if you've seen what Selebus outputs you'd have an idea just how much someone who is enthusiastic about their story can write for it. Now ask someone to translate that on a deadline, and you need to start trimming it back.

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

Well that argument cuts both ways, so you can't accuse him of being lazy if you aren't willing to entertain the fact that he writes too much for translators to feel comfortable with in a monthly deadline format.

 

[King Jr]

I swear Skummy Ecchi has ever day another reason why for 2 years BC gives nothing but empty promise.

Now it that he just wirte to much lol.