VN Ren'Py Abandoned Ecchi Sensei [Day 22-23 Final] [BlueCat]

[OctoSky]

So compromising on the quality

But thats the thing I don't get. He is not compromising. The MTL has been proven to be better than Latecomers translations. The quality would be better, not worse. Why would he need to wait for plan A to be done if MTL is better? Maybe even faster?

So thats what I am trying to get an answer for. Blue is losing support, he has a tool to translate better than his translator, his translator is currently busy with the merge, and he wants to put out content. So thats where my question comes in. Why wait instead of using MTL?

 

[ThaRealThiccShady]

Me coming back to this thread thinking there might be a development only to find it's still all just arguing with Skummy;

 

[OctoSky]

Me coming back to this thread thinking there might be a development only to find it's still all just arguing with Skummy;
View attachment 1703311

Hey! No one is arguing with Skummy......Did I just say that?...Huh...Felt weird to say....Anyway, all I did was ask a question.

 

[Wafflewaffuru]

But thats the thing I don't get. He is not compromising. The MTL has been proven to be better than Latecomers translations. The quality would be better, not worse. Why would he need to wait for plan A to be done if MTL is better? Maybe even faster?

So thats what I am trying to get an answer for. Blue is losing support, he has a tool to translate better than his translator, his translator is currently busy with the merge, and he wants to put out content. So thats where my question comes in. Why wait instead of using MTL?

Because there's less quality in MTL than there is a real translation. Have you gone to all those japanese MTL games and seen what would be considered a "good" MTL translation? and you get weird ass garbage? It's literally a compromise. It's an AWFUL compromise that would most likely cost him more support by just dropping it with a garbage MTL, than just waiting to find a good translator. It's NOT proven to be better than later translations. The quality would be *far* worse. New content =/= better quality.

 

[OctoSky]

Because there's less quality in MTL than there is a real translation. Have you gone to all those japanese MTL games and seen what would be considered a "good" MTL translation? and you get weird ass garbage? It's literally a compromise. It's an AWFUL compromise that would most likely cost him more support by just dropping it with a garbage MTL, than just waiting to find a good translator. It's NOT proven to be better than later translations. The quality would be *far* worse. New content =/= better quality.

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There is the two MTL that he posted. Looks better than Latecomer.

Here is a couple users replies to it.

The software actually sounds better than the translator. I don't know German so I can't say for sure, but it seems latecomer does more word for word while the software actually tries to make it more proper.

Judging by these examples, the machine translation is fine.

With the exception of example 3, I find the machine did a better job, better adjectives and verbs. imo

The machine learning translation itself is... fine, great even. I'd argue it just comes across as a different take almost, but in some of them it seemed like the better translation and others would just need proof reading and minor touch ups.

As a German myself I say the MTL is better than what Latecomer came up with or in other words if I would have made the translation, it would be very close to the MTL version.

Looking at the samples posted above, it seems Machine translation has got better sense I last experienced it.

I'm also a fellow german fan and have to say, LC's translation is crap. He translated word for word, one thing that also german english teachers don't approve. Most basic mistake. The MTL is WAY better and is as close to the german text as it can be to make sense.

 

[Blackdragon0083]

I can answer this one for him. Not defending bluecat or anything BUT it's a pretty obvious answer. This is for all intents and purposes, Bluecat's lovechild. It's his baby, it's his passion project. In that way, he's refusing to compromise on the quality of something he's put hundreds of hours of blood, sweat and tears into. He's probably sacrificed a lot of things to get this project to where it's at right now. So compromising on the quality is not only an insult to all the work he's put into it so far, but also an insult to everything he's sacrificed up to this point. Ultimately, he'd rather see what he envisioned the project to be, rather than what everyone else wanted it to be. Just like how JK Rowling spat in the face of everyone that wanted to see Harry and Hermione get together and shipped her with Ron instead. It's Bluecat's project. And if he thinks sacrificing a few unhappy people now, for ultimately more happy people down the road in the future in other endeavors, that's a right he has as the creator of this project, I'd think. Not trying to defend him, but it's logical enough.

If your producing a work of great import were skimping on quality could cost lives or set an entire nation back, sure. but from the context of a deliverable entertainment product this sounds like a whole lot of sunk cost death spiral to me.

Me coming back to this thread thinking there might be a development only to find it's still all just arguing with Skummy;
View attachment 1703311

there has been no movement on this game in 2 years and no explanation as to why from the dev. Why would you think there would be development?

 

[RandoCard3]

Because there's less quality in MTL than there is a real translation. Have you gone to all those japanese MTL games and seen what would be considered a "good" MTL translation? and you get weird ass garbage? It's literally a compromise. It's an AWFUL compromise that would most likely cost him more support by just dropping it with a garbage MTL, than just waiting to find a good translator. It's NOT proven to be better than later translations. The quality would be *far* worse. New content =/= better quality.

Whatever Blue used though actually came out better than Latecomer, for the most part, and QA on the translation can be done during the usual Alpha and Beta periods. He can extend the Alpha and Beta for a week or two if he feels that could help. If Skummy is right about his writing habits, then he's never going to get a translator to take on this job without a significant pay raise, and I'm not sure the Patreon money is going to be able to cover that.

This is probably the only option open to him at the moment, and it's honestly not even a bad one. He either uses MTL, or Ecchi Sensei just doesn't come out. New Content may not equate to better quality, but New Content prevents this game from dying.

The problem with games that use MTL, is that most of them are first time devs, working alone, with no Alpha or Beta. Ecchi Sensei doesn't have to worry about that. It's still in a pretty decent position to make use of MTL without compromising the quality. Despite the constant shit talking, most of the people here would chip in on the QA to put an end to this drought of content. No one bitches and moans about something this much if they aren't invested. If the content comes, they'll eat it up.

 

[Blackdragon0083]

Whatever Blue used though actually came out better than Latecomer, for the most part, and QA on the translation can be done during the usual Alpha and Beta periods. He can extend the Alpha and Beta for a week or two if he feels that could help. If Skummy is right about his writing habits, then he's never going to get a translator to take on this job without a significant pay raise, and I'm not sure the Patreon money is going to be able to cover that.

This is probably the only option open to him at the moment, and it's honestly not even a bad one. He either uses MTL, or Ecchi Sensei just doesn't come out. New Content may not equate to better quality, but New Content prevents this game from dying.

The problem with games that use MTL, is that most of them are first time devs, working alone, with no Alpha or Beta. Ecchi Sensei doesn't have to worry about that. It's still in a pretty decent position to make use of MTL without compromising the quality. Despite the constant shit talking, most of the people here would chip in on the QA to put an end to this drought of content. No one bitches and moans about something this much if they aren't invested. If the content comes, they'll eat it up.

I really couldn't agree more, the MTL does look better then the previous work in most areas anyways, so it may not be as good as this hypothetical professional translator the game may one day receive. It IS for the most part a quality improvement with a knock on effect of increasing turn around time and reducing work load from the deliverables of the past.

As much as we joke about how ever entertaining the drama is here, the cold hard reality is most of us here bitching are not doing it to shit on the game, we are doing it because we ARE intensely frustrated fans that actively want to see the product succeed, we are the people still passionate enough to give a shit about what bluecat wans to make and rather then doing what he can to support what little passion is left in his "Magnium Opis" he jerks us around obfuscates everything, refuses to talk, refuses community provided solutions to problems, and refuses to ever show proof of work, all the while hiding behind skummy like a human shield.

If he was honest he would have ether show something to the community to back up his claims, or he wouldn't have hide status updates behind a pay wall. or he would change his Patrion to extract money on release delivery rather then monthly if he was not confident that he could release an update on a timely manner. Any one of these things would have restored some amount of credibility.

the reality is is ether by intention, incompetency, or cowardice bluecat is continually choosing every option that disrespects the people who care about what he is trying to make, as well as those who care enough to trade there life's labor on the increasingly vain hope that he will release an update one day. all at a time all of us are hurting and its only getting worse. its enough to make me a little irate.

 

[Wafflewaffuru]

The problem with games that use MTL, is that most of them are first time devs, working alone, with no Alpha or Beta. Ecchi Sensei doesn't have to worry about that. It's still in a pretty decent position to make use of MTL without compromising the quality. Despite the constant shit talking, most of the people here would chip in on the QA to put an end to this drought of content. No one bitches and moans about something this much if they aren't invested. If the content comes, they'll eat it up.

I mean that's fair, but do you think he has enough backers in the native english speaking community tiered high enough to go through and alpha and beta, and have them critique the quality? He's obviously not going to reach out to a pirating community to ask us to quality control it before putting it out for public.

With the exception of example 3, I find the machine did a better job, better adjectives and verbs. imo
Looking at the samples posted above, it seems Machine translation has got better sense I last experienced it.
I'm also a fellow german fan and have to say, LC's translation is crap. He translated word for word, one thing that also german english teachers don't approve. Most basic mistake. The MTL is WAY better and is as close to the german text as it can be to make sense.

3 was something interesting for sure, idk. I'm not a german speaker myself, I just know that MTL more often than not doesn't make sense. But he really doesn't have many options available to him. I can't speak for anyone I just don't think MTL is exactly the best option. There could be others we just don't know about, but he did say in the thing you shared that if it comes down to it he will use MTL. I just more often than not have an awful experience when it comes to MTL. Hotsprings academy is a good example of a popularish game that just has dogshit MTL that doesn't make sense.

 

[RandoCard3]

I mean that's fair, but do you think he has enough backers in the native english speaking community tiered high enough to go through and alpha and beta, and have them critique the quality? He's obviously not going to reach out to a pirating community to ask us to quality control it before putting it out for public.

Yes, and once he's back to consistent updates, he'll have more.

That's not really relevant though, because as far as I can tell, it's the only option available to him. He either needs to move forward with this, or he is actively letting the project fail.

Besides, he doesn't actually need to reach out to the pirate community. The Alpha/Beta will probably leak, and as long as the Feedback channel remains open to everyone, people will point out bugs and any awkward translation issues.

Be honest with me here. Does Blue, Latecomer, Skummy or you have a better alternative to the MLT? Or any alternative?

 

[Wafflewaffuru]

Yes, and once he's back to consistent updates, he'll have more.

That's not really relevant though, because as far as I can tell, it's the only option available to him. He either needs to move forward with this, or he is actively letting the project fail.

Besides, he doesn't actually need to reach out to the pirate community. The Alpha/Beta will probably leak, and as long as the Feedback channel remains open to everyone, people will point out bugs and any awkward translation issues.

Be honest with me here. Does Blue, Latecomer, Skummy or you have a better alternative to the MLT? Or any alternative?

I legitimately don't know the answer to that. Only bluecat, and the others do. I'm not trying to speak for them, nor defend them. I'm just playing the devil's advocate because people here are quick to shill on devs for things they don't know or understand.

 

[___abbas___]

What the hell happened here ?!!!
I remember playing the last update a year ago and saying what a lovely game, I can't wait for the upcoming updates and I forgot about it only when I was cleaning my pc and found it again I said oh man it has been a year I wonder what this gem turned out to be only to come here and see this circus. Countless arguments, the community that once loved him so much is grilling him and sadly the game that bluecat always described as his baby is dying.
So can someone please explain what happened throughout this year or refer me to a post that does?

 

[LooLoo Baloo]

Skummy takes the vague statements from bluecat, and expands them to make it seem like more is going on. When nothings happening. Everything that skummy has said has turned out to be false. Which is what PR is built upon; spinning stories and deflecting. His biggest mistake was openly admitting he was doing that. It was a pretty stupid thing to do

I legitimately don't know the answer to that. Only bluecat, and the others do. I'm not trying to speak for them, nor defend them. I'm just playing the devil's advocate because people here are quick to shill on devs for things they don't know or understand.

Playing bluecats advocate has no benefit to anybody

Maybe if you were playing these games with people a year ago, your reasons would seem convincing for a few. But they seem pretty dense (Understatement) after an 18 month delay. There's only so much time that can pass before every excuse is worn out. Playing games with people is just a waste of time

 

[sklttles]

They died to coronavirus move on to the next game

 

[Soulpuppet]

Well just think everyone. In a couple weeks this will be marked as abandoned here unless BC gets a game update out, not a patreon post with some more BS on why there is no update. Then BC can finally just keep doing what they're doing now without any type of effort to "update" his community

 

[DoverUK25]

Well just think everyone. In a couple weeks this will be marked as abandoned here unless BC gets a game update out, not a patreon post with some more BS on why there is no update. Then BC can finally just keep doing what they're doing now without any type of effort to "update" his community

Hate to burst your bubble but he is active on discord as well he posts shit on the 28th of Feb meaning it won't get the ab tag

 

[Dukez]

There is more:
View attachment 1701902
Plan A ... are we back to waiting on the merge?
That question was asked. And the answer:
View attachment 1701908

You know, It's probably been said before but BlueCat is a very poor businessman. You would think he would acknowledge his dwindling paying customers over time and think about releasing some substantial information to try and get those people back who left.

Also, can I shit on him for a second? That's not even Plan C, It's Plan D.

Plan A = original merge with all features
Plan B = merge with some features dropped
Plan C = merge on hold / worked on separately, new content made in a separate project to put something out.
Plan D = New content in separate project getting translated through MTL instead of a person.

So his lost even within his own plans, but can he use some critical fucking thinking for once and acknowledge Plan "C" will never work because it's translated by the guy who's working on PLAN A. Plan D could proceed without Latecomers help whatso-fucking-ever because he doesn't need to do shit, much like he already does for this game.

To sum it up... there is no Plan B etc put in motion because BlueCat just made it abundantly clear it's Plan A or nothing and all this MTL talk, dropping features was only a distraction to get away from the original and still very much only plan, the full original merge.

Who knows if it'll come out, but it'll be 100 years too late if it ever gets "finished".

Also @ Skummy, the unpaid fan / "friend" of BlueCat with the self appointed PR role as if they were paid, if you still can't acknowledge how BlueCat has fucked us, you, everyone around on purpose with lies and deceit I have no nice words for you, they would even be appropriate given this community but I'll leave them out.

 

[Soulpuppet]

Hate to burst your bubble but he is active on discord as well he posts shit on the 28th of Feb meaning it won't get the ab tag

No. It's been stated that if there isn't a game update by April it will be marked as abandoned. 18months without a game update=abandoned. So no you aren't bursting my bubble. What he posted wasn't a game update, it was dev "update".

 

[DoverUK25]

No. It's been stated that if there isn't a game update by April it will be marked as abandoned. 18months without a game update=abandoned. So no you aren't bursting my bubble. What he posted wasn't a game update, it was dev "update".

It's that the case about time but we c won't we if it gets AB tag or not but normally if dev is active on Patreon or subscribe star or discord then it usually won't get the Ab tag even if it is a shity dev note.

 

[LooLoo Baloo]

It's that the case about time but we c won't we if it gets AB tag or not but normally if dev is active on Patreon or subscribe star or discord then it usually won't get the Ab tag even if it is a shity dev note.

Yeah, except it'll be one and a half years worth of shitty dev notes. It's gone on for too long