VN Ren'Py Abandoned Ecchi Sensei [Day 22-23 Final] [BlueCat]

[graz150]

Alright, guys. For those of us that are regulars around here, I would like to hear everyone's best estimate.

From 1 to 100%, in your mind, what is the likelihood that there is any significant new content at all; that Bluecat has actualy done anything at all to work on Ecchi Sensei over the last 16 months?

Is there any chance at all, in your opinion, that Bluecat has actually produced any new content as he claims, and is actually working on it, but just waiting for a translater (or whatever the delay reason of the month), or is everything from Bluecat and repeated by Skummy is just a smokescreen so Bluecat and Latecomer can collect as much Patron cash as long as possible?

I'll start:
Even if their Patreon drops to $100 a month, it is still free money. Bluecat and Latecomer will milk it until it goes down to under $100 a month.

Since nobody has seen a single line of dialog or a single image from the supposedly already created new content, nor has the merge been completed, which we have all seen can be done in an afternoon by a non-coder, my best estimate of the chance Bluecat has done anything for 16 months, and is working at all on on Ecchi Sensei now is:

2%

What about you all? Anyone out their with more faith than me? Are there any estimates as high as 10%? 20%? 50% or more?

Let's hear everyone's best estimate.

I'm going to be that guy and say... 95%!
Sure, nothing worth 16 months of work, but at least 2-3 days worth of content and maybe some sketches for the next couple of days. Content could also be done but without proper story to link everything together.

Though, this could be the last signficant thing produced for this game.
In these 16 months, nothing was learned by BC, whether technical or relational.
That thing about him not seeing why he should post more technical updates after all this time, say it all.
If presented with the same issue later on (6th month merge?), it would result in the same debacle, if not bigger.
So I wouldn't risk a cent on this game's future, or BC future as a dev.

I hope BC realize that being confronted with all this while still under patreon welfare is a real blessing, because if it was after establishing some kind of company in another country, consequences for such a fuckup would have been disastreous and not laughing matters.
Not everyone has the opportunity to survive a crisis and learn from their mistakes, let alone do so while burning other people's money.

 

[Jeff221]

Just made the mistake of joining the Discord to see if there was any different information in there. Do not make my mistakes. Do not subject yourselves to cat related horrors I have seen.

 

[Dukez]

Alright, guys. For those of us that are regulars around here, I would like to hear everyone's best estimate.

From 1 to 100%, in your mind, what is the likelihood that there is any significant new content at all; that Bluecat has actualy done anything at all to work on Ecchi Sensei over the last 16 months?

Mine would be in line with whatever the abandonment rate of games here is, but since I don't know, I'd probably echo what someone earlier said as they were originally doing it, but then eventually stopped. I think there's like a 50% chance Bluecat has still done work past that point of milking it, and like a 10% chance we see a released product in the next 3 months. If we exceed that 10% chance on 3 months with no released product then I think the numbers go drastically down (queue steiner math).

You know what would be great instead of the card info bs system, if they put in work on expanding the customization options. Like... give us text with outlines, like every good game here has. I remember being constantly annoyed by this and none of the different backgrounds would help alleviate this either. Such a simple solution to a problem I find, but, well we would need to add another year on to get this one added in I'm sure.

Just look at all of Bluecat's very few quoted comments. He is dismissive at best, and outright hostile most of the time. Most devs would be begging for forgiveness and trying to win back his fans loyalty by pledging specific actions and following through on it, but not Bluecat!

There is actually a surprising amount of devs in the games industry that are cocky and defensive when it comes to their creations and not that open to feedback, and if you disagree it's just "don't play the game" etc (they also tend to not be that great at their job too). If we didn't know Bluecat was in Germany (or around there?) I would've assumed he was an American since this is where that sort of behavior in the industry is typically found lol.

 

[Deleted member 156769]

I agree - no mentally stable person would be capable of producing something like this game. But it probably also says something about the mental state of us who play the game, especially with some of the shit from the patches

I'm not ashamed to admit that I brought this game up, and Lain's mod for it in particular (please don't look it up), in therapy as an example of how deep I had sunk. This game crosses a few moral boundaries I never thought I'd cross. At the time I felt really bad about it, now I can see that it was just the logical escalation of an addicted need for shocking, exciting content.

I think plenty of people can and do enjoy this game without being addicted or depressed or whatever. But creating it... I don't think so.

Just my take on it though. I'm sure I'm projecting things and that the reality is different in many ways. In fact I'd be very happy to be proven wrong.

 

[layer1avn]

However, I noticed from mid-week two onwards a general lack of inspiration. He started committing the sin of "Telling not showing" where it seemed like every second scene I was being told about something happening with a black screen to look at.

Narrator-kun started showing up in dialogue more and more as time went by. That was concerning even before I realized how long the game had been delayed.

 

[Bloodguard]

BUT TLDR; There's basically a 0% chance a game recovers from such a huge loss of momentum. Even if we get more content it will never be the Ecchi Sensei you or I remember after downloading when this first released.

Your infamous example has finally been hit with the abandoned tag, but that's probably cause the scummy Dev finally admitted he was abandoning it. BC is probably still far away from admitting this, as the money is still pretty good, but it seems to be the inevitable outcome.

 

[JTsmoothhands]

You are giving Bluecat a little more credit that I am, in that you think he actually has a decent amount of material he is sitting on, but this is quite plausible. To be fair, he released quite frequent and sizable updates at the start, so he can make content when he wants to.

I was a $50 a month contributor for a long time, I've seen the next two planned updates. The problem is these two update have been done(and give almost nothing new) for over a year. If he cared about the project he would A: already have about ten updates ready to drop once the coding is finished, or B: just do what literally every dev does and just keep making it with a part two with fixed code. Once you finish it go back and clean it all up

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

For the reason why we kept getting black screened:

Blue writes too much to be translated by humans effectively without burning them out, man just keeps writing and scripting out shit, granted he works a fine balance between everything in the good times. Thus he had to cut back content to ensure he didn't burn out his team with shit. Depending on how things shake out, we might see a return to that far more nuance storytelling he was doing before, dunno.

 

[ThaRealThiccShady]

For the reason why we kept getting black screened:

Blue writes too much to be translated by humans effectively without burning them out, man just keeps writing and scripting out shit, granted he works a fine balance between everything in the good times. Thus he had to cut back content to ensure he didn't burn out his team with shit. Depending on how things shake out, we might see a return to that far more nuance storytelling he was doing before, dunno.

 

[sheetkaroo]

Definitely not a regular, but as someone who has been a fan of multiple other games which have gone through this cycle I think that it is very likely that SOME work has been done, and that at some point an update will be released. Granted, I don't expect it to be very inspired, or well thought out.

For the most infamous example, milfy city has been dead or abandoned for a year+ how many times now?

The first week of this game was really top tier among all VNs on this site. Every scene was acted out by the characters, there was always dialog and story that had good flow and consistency. I think if you've never tried to tell a story like this its easy to not truly appreciate how hard it is to make a story with dialogue that flows nicely like this. However, I noticed from mid-week two onwards a general lack of inspiration. He started committing the sin of "Telling not showing" where it seemed like every second scene I was being told about something happening with a black screen to look at. The dialog got repetitive, the story elements were pushed to the wayside in favor of a treadmill of characters that you could never possibly make narrative arcs for. For example, you build up connections and stories with Kaede and Aki, and by far we spend more time in throwaway sex scenes with Satsune, or with random schoolgirl #45 who has no story relevance other than giving blowjobs in a public bathroom.

That being said, keeping up the kind of motivation that something like the first week of this VN would have taken, in my mind generally is very rare or nearly impossible.

That is sort of the key to all of these really good VNs. They start as genuine passion projects that are often just the escapism or fantasies of the writer/creator being put on the screen. I think it is more of a case that the money being so good is what keeps them around at all. At a certain point, whether from burnout or simple loss of passion for a project the creator doesn't actually want to do it anymore. Often times, however, the money is just too good to walk away from.

The honest thing would be to be up-front about this, and freeze payments until you want to continue working on the game, or pull the plug and delete the patreon altogether. Or hell, just give permission to someone else to continue making the game (if that person exists). But with the amount of money on the line, I think it becomes very easy to lie to yourself that its okay to keep the page open and that your few hours of work a week justifies it. That someday you'll be back to regular updates, that it's just a rough patch.

BUT TLDR; There's basically a 0% chance a game recovers from such a huge loss of momentum. Even if we get more content it will never be the Ecchi Sensei you or I remember after downloading when this first released.

What a shame. most likely this is what happened.

For the reason why we kept getting black screened:

Blue writes too much to be translated by humans effectively without burning them out, man just keeps writing and scripting out shit, granted he works a fine balance between everything in the good times. Thus he had to cut back content to ensure he didn't burn out his team with shit. Depending on how things shake out, we might see a return to that far more nuance storytelling he was doing before, dunno.

lmao. i can't tell if this is satire or real anymore.

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

Bruh its not that outlandish, if you've seen what Selebus outputs you'd have an idea just how much someone who is enthusiastic about their story can write for it. Now ask someone to translate that on a deadline, and you need to start trimming it back.

 

[ThaRealThiccShady]

Bruh its not that outlandish, if you've seen what Selebus outputs you'd have an idea just how much someone who is enthusiastic about their story can write for it. Now ask someone to translate that on a deadline, and you need to start trimming it back.

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

Well that argument cuts both ways, so you can't accuse him of being lazy if you aren't willing to entertain the fact that he writes too much for translators to feel comfortable with in a monthly deadline format.

 

[King Jr]

I swear Skummy Ecchi has ever day another reason why for 2 years BC gives nothing but empty promise.

Now it that he just wirte to much lol.

 

[ryyyn73]

It seems to me, that you are having three separate discussions in parallel?

Let's try to sort this out.

1)
It was stated that the story gets less and less detailed as the weeks progress.
If you talk about the total amount of text that Blue produces you are using the wrong metric here. But this point is really nothing to quarrel about. The level of detail is the creators decision. We may like his choice or not, but in the end he gets to choose:
Go faster with less detail or slower with more detail.

2)
It was also stated that sometimes we are shown a blank screen along the text.
Skummy picked this up

For the reason why we kept getting black screened:

Here i don't understand the connection to the translation at all. We know that Blue isn't doing the translation himself. How would translation slow down rendering? If there is a connection, wouldn't it be the other way around? When the translation is slow, i would expect more renders for the same amount of text.

3)
Blues work ethic.
If i understand Skummy correctly Blue writes much more than the text that makes it into the game. But is this really relevant here? The interesting thing is what text is put into the game. It doesn't matter how much additional text Blue hides in his cellar. Only what goes into the game. That is also the only text that needs translating...
I don't know how big and fast the releases came in the past. Was it really that much more text per time than other VNs?

Or am I fundamentally misunderstanding something here?
I don't get what point is being made at all.

 

[Wolfen5]

Well that argument cuts both ways, so you can't accuse him of being lazy if you aren't willing to entertain the fact that he writes too much for translators to feel comfortable with in a monthly deadline format.

Unfortunately, this is where you're wrong and acting childishly. In an argument the one providing the claim tends to need the other to provide the proof for that claim. Not having a counter claim of mere words as proof and then ask proof that they're lying. It's circular and won't lead anywhere. It's called the "Burden of proof fallacy".
Even we did entertain that notion, after 18 months of no news, comments, pics of anything all you're asking is to take your word.
The claim is "Show your work" and your argument is "Prove he isn't working" Seriously?!

 

[Nikeee]

Why are you taking anything ScummySimp says seriously ? He's a self-proclaimed PR boy for his god BlueScam who might not even know he exists and he spent the last 2 years lying just to defend him. Everything he said turned out to be some bullshit he pulled out of his ass, stop giving attention to him.

 

[OctoSky]

Wonder if Bluecat ever plays bingo?

 

[ThaRealThiccShady]

Well that argument cuts both ways, so you can't accuse him of being lazy if you aren't willing to entertain the fact that he writes too much for translators to feel comfortable with in a monthly deadline format.

Dude it’s been well over a year without even a single image being released. That’s the bottom line. No need for translators, coders, writing of any kind, nothing but a single image. Get him to answer/provide that then we’ll go from there into believing they’re actually doing something
Till then I repeat in various forms:

 

[Skummy Ecchi]

Alright, here's a few things:

Ii Bluecat writes a script, and it needs translated, there is only so much a translator is gonna translate before they get burnout in the process. Thus he would be forced to skim down on script to not burn out the translator doing the work, no script? No renders, it makes zero sense to render a scene if there is nothing but a few summary sentences to it. To call him lazy is and unsubstantiated statement, because you lack the full understanding of the situation, for me to defend without proof is also a unsubstantiated statement because all I have is my conversation on why translators seemed to struggle with Bluecats work.

So I called it in essence, a zero sum, you can't successfully argue your point to any reasonable measure, and neither can I. I accepted this, but certainly used the wrong language in that measure. I simply made the statement of why the story went the way it did, people like to call BS on anything because they're just as immature as my dumb ass, and thus the cycle repeats.

I don't know why you guys keep bringing up the other issues of no content, this isn't about that, this is about Weeks 2 and 3 being much more compressed and high paced than Week 1. It has nothing to do with new content upcoming and there isn't much I can do for pictures of why Bluecat had to trim down his script writing considering it happened before I was involved.