VN Ren'Py Abandoned Estate : Dominate [v0.36.1] [Henissart]

[TheWando]

I was on the creator his discord for quite a while. He seems to reply frequently on that discord, daily from what i've seen which is a good sign. I was just there to see when the next update would come out, so i didn't actually reply or react at all except when a discussion about the waitingtime came up which happened maybe 3 times over 3 months. I tried to keep the content creator motivated so defended him but after these 3 months... he disabled the chat for non-patreons after "too much" discussing.

Other non-patreons and patreons alike got annoyed about the waiting times and by good right. Whenever politely asked what was going on, the non-patreons didn't get any info and got a cold reply or were made fun of by the patreons, never by the content creator, for pirating the game and got redirected to the patreon page (a unique way to promote a game honestly, never seen it before so i hope it works?). I always wondered why he didn't ask the patreons to be nicer... he never did which honestly leaves me baffled.

It seems the creator doesn't seem to get that after 13 months of no updates... the non-patreon fans need a bit more than no info what so ever... how else can you keep the interest in a game which you basically ask money for and expect people to jump into a project which is on hold for 13 months.

I'm also lacking in understanding why the renders and graphics have to be better and improved for 13 months, it was already good. Way better than Karlssons Gambit and look at their Patreon income. 3 to 4 times as much. The story and content is all that matter here so the only reason i can think of is that it is for his own personal interest to gain experience. An odd and bad business strategy to do when ppl are waiting and paying for updates and he really needs the money because he has made this his full time job.

I'm not here to poke at the game or content creator, i got mad respect for him and the game. I really hope that update comes soon. I would of just liked him to actually see the non-patreon view on this and why ppl are scared to jump into this project.

 

[RubyEriksen7]

Other non-patreons and patreons alike got annoyed about the waiting times and by good right. Whenever politely asked what was going on, the non-patreons didn't get any info and got a cold reply or were made fun of by the patreons, never by the content creator, for pirating the game and got redirected to the patreon page (a unique way to promote a game honestly, never seen it before so i hope it works?). I always wondered why he didn't ask the patreons to be nicer... he never did which honestly leaves me baffled.

It seems the creator doesn't seem to get that after 13 months of no updates... the non-patreon fans need a bit more than no info what so ever... how else can you keep the interest in a game which you basically ask money for and expect people to jump into a project which is on hold for 13 months.

I'm also lacking in understanding why the renders and graphics have to be better and improved for 13 months, it was already good. Way better than Karlssons Gambit and look at their Patreon income. 3 to 4 times as much. The story and content is all that matter here so the only reason i can think of is that it is for his own personal interest to gain experience. An odd and bad business strategy to do when ppl are waiting and paying for updates and he really needs the money because he has made this his full time job.

Dev is not worrying about engagement or growth or whatever. if he did he would be posting ACTUAL previews for the ACTUAL update to generate hype or to keep people crawling back, it ain't it fam. Patrons are essentially paying for a DeviantArt page at this point.

$1,302 is very good for a wallpaper a month, and you can just tell the motivation is not there. i can see the dev putting the kibosh on the entire thing by 2022 cause the Patrons patience will eventually wear out...


P.S Karlssons Gambit is filled with notable events in every single update, makes it the best Femdom game around!

 

[bones hardscrew]

At this point I just show up for the laughs about wallpapers. Was checking in daily for an update, but I know its not worth it so I spend my time on other forums IRL. Maybe one day, on an off chance, I come here and see an update.





Download and the story advances 2 in game hours...next update 2025.

 

[Belnick]

no abandoned tag?

 

[smokincandi69]

no abandoned tag?

because its not abandoned

 

[DanThaMan]

because its not abandoned

Oh right yea, he's hard at work doing wallpapers each month.

 

[Terminator_26F]

The proverb says: "Hope gives life" ... then we will all live to be hundred years old! Thank you Henissart ...

 

[gio1243]

It really isn't ! He has released 12 wallpapers in the past 12 months!

 

[DarkerThenBlack]

because its not abandoned

So at what point you would consider ths project abandoned?

 

[iplayfortheplot]

It really isn't ! He has released 12 wallpapers in the past 12 months!

a rate of 1 wallpaper per month ? does he do anything right ?

 

[Deleted member 573924]

he didn't get lazy he started having health problems so he had to slow down also it seems like he might be a bit of a perfectionist which adds to the time it is taking I'm hoping for the update at least before the end of the year though

weird how all these kinds of things suddenly start happening to devs once they get to a certain level of income on Patreon. Obviously, there are exceptions, but there is too much of a correlation between Patreon income and the rate of updates for it to be a mere coincidence. The positive of the Patreon model is that it creates a financial incentive for people to make great games like this. The downside is that at a certain level of income/popularity the best move for many devs seems to make each update take as long as they can possibly get away with. Since they are getting paid monthly the longer each update takes, the more they make off of each update. Not to mention it means less work for them to make that money. With the funding model of Patreon, they could make an update every single month and in 6 months they would make basically the same amount they would make if they only released a single update. Sure, you can argue that they would get more patrons from having a faster update schedule but it would not be proportional to the extra effort that it would take to keep that kind of update cadence. Not to mention since due to sites like F95, the game is constantly being played by new people, so they will continue to gain patrons regardless (although potentially at a slower rate). Basically, the funding model of Patreon makes "milking" a very easy and attractive business strategy for devs. Plus, there are many patrons who have no problem being milked, or at least will do whatever mental gymnastics necessary to convince themselves that they aren't. Because each person is only giving a couple dollars a month, the developer only really needs to provide like $5 of value a month to each patron in order for them to feel as though they are getting somewhat equal value in return. If 1 person was giving you $1000 a month they would most likely expect a lot more in return than 1 wallpaper a month. But if instead, you have 1000 people giving you $1 a month, a wallpaper will seem pretty fair.

All this being said, if the dev is having health issues I wish them the best. They've made a great game that has provided me with many hours of enjoyment. My paragraph above is more of a statement on the overall economics of Patreon and VNs than a direct criticism of this game or developer in particular. It's just a comment in this thread prompted me to write on this topic. The value of any game is something that is subjective, so it's up to those who choose to contribute money to decide whether it's worth it or not. But I also think it is important for people to understand the incentive structure that Patreon puts in place, and to start judging developers on their actions, or at least not just immediately believing excuse after excuse. To be fair, I am a huge procrastinator and I'd imagine that with the payment model of Patreon it can be very easy to let deadlines slip and eventually get into the habit of it, especially when you have a community that is extremely kind and supports you even when you miss the deadlines you give them. While Patreon and funding models like it have their issues, for the moment they seem to be the best funding model we have for this kind of content. Personally, I'd like developers and artists to be able to make a living off of their work, even if it means that some people may end up abusing the system and the trust of those who support them. All things considered, this funding model isn't too bad especially since with sites like F95 not only are devs able to make money from making these games but it is still possible for everyone to experience the games even if they aren't able/willing to pay for them (everyone wins!?). It just kinda sucks that time after time the best adult games I find on F95 end up taking longer and longer and longer and longer and longer to get updates.

I did not plan on writing anywhere near this much. But hopefully, it made a bit of sense and someone out there got something out of it.

 

[bolsiita]

So at what point you would consider ths project abandoned?

As I understand it, the forum considers a project abandoned after a set amount of months without any kind of updates from the dev. All it takes is for the dev to say something like "I'm still working on it" every few months and it can't really be called abandoned. I'm sure it comes down to a case to case thing though and I feel like the tag cannot even be definitive until the project lead calls it abandoned.

I think there is a report function to request it, if you think it applies here.

I don't really follow the development or the dev that close, but I hope that helped you if you do.

 

[KingAV]

weird how all these kinds of things suddenly start happening to devs once they get to a certain level of income on Patreon. Obviously, there are exceptions, but there is too much of a correlation between Patreon income and the rate of updates for it to be a mere coincidence. The positive of the Patreon model is that it creates a financial incentive for people to make great games like this. The downside is that at a certain level of income/popularity the best move for many devs seems to make each update take as long as they can possibly get away with. Since they are getting paid monthly the longer each update takes, the more they make off of each update. Not to mention it means less work for them to make that money. With the funding model of Patreon, they could make an update every single month and in 6 months they would make basically the same amount they would make if they only released a single update. Sure, you can argue that they would get more patrons from having a faster update schedule but it would not be proportional to the extra effort that it would take to keep that kind of update cadence. Not to mention since due to sites like F95, the game is constantly being played by new people, so they will continue to gain patrons regardless (although potentially at a slower rate). Basically, the funding model of Patreon makes "milking" a very easy and attractive business strategy for devs. Plus, there are many patrons who have no problem being milked, or at least will do whatever mental gymnastics necessary to convince themselves that they aren't. Because each person is only giving a couple dollars a month, the developer only really needs to provide like $5 of value a month to each patron in order for them to feel as though they are getting somewhat equal value in return. If 1 person was giving you $1000 a month they would most likely expect a lot more in return than 1 wallpaper a month. But if instead, you have 1000 people giving you $1 a month, a wallpaper will seem pretty fair.

All this being said, if the dev is having health issues I wish them the best. They've made a great game that has provided me with many hours of enjoyment. My paragraph above is more of a statement on the overall economics of Patreon and VNs than a direct criticism of this game or developer in particular. It's just a comment in this thread prompted me to write on this topic. The value of any game is something that is subjective, so it's up to those who choose to contribute money to decide whether it's worth it or not. But I also think it is important for people to understand the incentive structure that Patreon puts in place, and to start judging developers on their actions, or at least not just immediately believing excuse after excuse. To be fair, I am a huge procrastinator and I'd imagine that with the payment model of Patreon it can be very easy to let deadlines slip and eventually get into the habit of it, especially when you have a community that is extremely kind and supports you even when you miss the deadlines you give them. While Patreon and funding models like it have their issues, for the moment they seem to be the best funding model we have for this kind of content. Personally, I'd like developers and artists to be able to make a living off of their work, even if it means that some people may end up abusing the system and the trust of those who support them. All things considered, this funding model isn't too bad especially since with sites like F95 not only are devs able to make money from making these games but it is still possible for everyone to experience the games even if they aren't able/willing to pay for them (everyone wins!?). It just kinda sucks that time after time the best adult games I find on F95 end up taking longer and longer and longer and longer and longer to get updates.

I did not plan on writing anywhere near this much. But hopefully, it made a bit of sense and someone out there got something out of it.

I found your reply pretty interesting. I can see your point where the monthly payments doesn't encourage devs to keep up the work and keep a tight schedule in putting out the updates. There are definitly some devs out there looking to profit of their monthly wallpaper. But I think this is only a part of the story. I mean this in a general sense as well and not specific to this game.

I have some experience with programming. It's not a lot but enough to give me an idea as to the work that goes into building these types of games. I think the work can be split up into mostly 3 parts: programming, story writing and graphical design. I have messed around a little with graphical design for a hobby and boy do I hope you get better at it with time because small stuff still takes me way to much time.

But what I think some people underestimate the most is how much more work each subsequent update will take: At first you can make due with a few characters and just a few branches of the story. This makes it very doable to develop and implement a new part of the story.
As the work continues more and more branches of the story have to be made. I think this results in the work load increasing by a lot. Story building becomes more complex and more work because you want people to stay interested and you don't want branches with just 1 scene. You also don't want people to get stuck in a branch so there needs to be connections between the story lines increasing the complexity. This of course results in a lot more programming work. Structuring the programming becomes harder as well, especially if the structure wasn't good at the beginning and it almost never is. Next to this tracking down errors in the code becomes harder as well. And of course every branch of the story needs graphics so the graphical design will also become way more work. This will happen again and again with new updates of a good game resulting in the coming updates becoming more and more work.

This is also meant as a more general statement than specific to this game but I thought it was worth sharing. I will never deny money playing a role for devs. But it also wouldn't surprise me if some of the bigger/better games become to much work around the same time that the patreon money really starts flowing. At that point 1 person probably can't handle the work load anymore, especially if it is still a side project. I think more than a few projects also end up abondened or heavily delayed due to this.

I hope this helps a bit in generating a little more understanding for the Devs working on major projects (like this one).

 

[Innocience]

I found your reply pretty interesting. I can see your point where the monthly payments doesn't encourage devs to keep up the work and keep a tight schedule in putting out the updates. There are definitly some devs out there looking to profit of their monthly wallpaper. But I think this is only a part of the story. I mean this in a general sense as well and not specific to this game.

I have some experience with programming. It's not a lot but enough to give me an idea as to the work that goes into building these types of games. I think the work can be split up into mostly 3 parts: programming, story writing and graphical design. I have messed around a little with graphical design for a hobby and boy do I hope you get better at it with time because small stuff still takes me way to much time.

But what I think some people underestimate the most is how much more work each subsequent update will take: At first you can make due with a few characters and just a few branches of the story. This makes it very doable to develop and implement a new part of the story.
As the work continues more and more branches of the story have to be made. I think this results in the work load increasing by a lot. Story building becomes more complex and more work because you want people to stay interested and you don't want branches with just 1 scene. You also don't want people to get stuck in a branch so there needs to be connections between the story lines increasing the complexity. This of course results in a lot more programming work. Structuring the programming becomes harder as well, especially if the structure wasn't good at the beginning and it almost never is. Next to this tracking down errors in the code becomes harder as well. And of course every branch of the story needs graphics so the graphical design will also become way more work. This will happen again and again with new updates of a good game resulting in the coming updates becoming more and more work.

This is also meant as a more general statement than specific to this game but I thought it was worth sharing. I will never deny money playing a role for devs. But it also wouldn't surprise me if some of the bigger/better games become to much work around the same time that the patreon money really starts flowing. At that point 1 person probably can't handle the work load anymore, especially if it is still a side project. I think more than a few projects also end up abondened or heavily delayed due to this.

I hope this helps a bit in generating a little more understanding for the Devs working on major projects (like this one).

That is a very, very good point. A lot of these projects fail not because of a lack of care or passion on the devs side but many underestimate the time effort and necessary planning involved when they try to cram more and more stuff into their baby.
That's even before you (hopefully) amass a following on patreon and now feel obliged to up yourself on each successive update. Afterall, double the patrons double the quality, right? I know by personal experience that it's easy to fall into a trap of continuous addition and enhancement when you're not giving yourself enough restrains that are of utmost importance when you're actually planning on finishing a game. There's also the issue of keeping your vision and motivation consistent for a project the whole way through the process.
Having great organizational skills is a must for any large project - the more complicated and complex it gets the better the planning must be.

Developers like DumbKoala are a great counter example that a more focused, short approach may not yield as extensive epics as other works, but has a higher rate of actually finishing a project while keeping a certain quality throughout the entirety of the experience. Obviously kinetic novels are a lot easier to plan out and I'd encourage many aspiring devs to try themselves on such a small scale project before they delve deep into the next pornographic epic. Unless you're just making a low quality asset flip or are already deeply familiar with an engine developement takes a huge time commitment.
At least with a smaller project the potential patreons can be more confident that their investment actually pays off in due time.

My two cents.

 

[Wooloomooloo]

...and my $0.02 and TL;DR version is that EVERYBODY has all sorts of miserable stuff going on from time to time - moving house, problems at work, health issues, losing motivation, losing pets, losing friends, losing relatives, the works... and yet none of us gets a free pass from anywhere for any of it, we're expected to DEAL with it AND keep doing what's expected of us all throughout.

Except if you happen to have a Patreon or Kickstarter, of course, apparently: not only are you guaranteed to have ALL of the above happen to you within a single year (multiple times), but you will also fully expect to keep all the money and be excused from delivering anything INDEFINITELY. Because "what kind of monsters are you people, can't you see the poor gal/guy is just pummeled by fate relentlessly..."

 

[Modsognir]

...and my $0.02 and TL;DR version is that EVERYBODY has all sorts of miserable stuff going on from time to time - moving house, problems at work, health issues, losing motivation, losing pets, losing friends, losing relatives, the works... and yet none of us gets a free pass from anywhere for any of it, we're expected to DEAL with it AND keep doing what's expected of us all throughout.

Except if you happen to have a Patreon or Kickstarter, of course, apparently: not only are you guaranteed to have ALL of the above happen to you within a single year (multiple times), but you will also fully expect to keep all the money and be excused from delivering anything INDEFINITELY. Because "what kind of monsters are you people, can't you see the poor gal/guy is just pummeled by fate relentlessly..."

Are you a paying Patron?

 

[FinrayB]

Are you a paying Patron?

I would highly doubt it, he seems like a smart fella....but who knows?

 

[Deleted member 4331767]

weird how all these kinds of things suddenly start happening to devs once they get to a certain level of income on Patreon. Obviously, there are exceptions, but there is too much of a correlation between Patreon income and the rate of updates for it to be a mere coincidence. The positive of the Patreon model is that it creates a financial incentive for people to make great games like this. The downside is that at a certain level of income/popularity the best move for many devs seems to make each update take as long as they can possibly get away with. Since they are getting paid monthly the longer each update takes, the more they make off of each update. Not to mention it means less work for them to make that money. With the funding model of Patreon, they could make an update every single month and in 6 months they would make basically the same amount they would make if they only released a single update. Sure, you can argue that they would get more patrons from having a faster update schedule but it would not be proportional to the extra effort that it would take to keep that kind of update cadence. Not to mention since due to sites like F95, the game is constantly being played by new people, so they will continue to gain patrons regardless (although potentially at a slower rate). Basically, the funding model of Patreon makes "milking" a very easy and attractive business strategy for devs. Plus, there are many patrons who have no problem being milked, or at least will do whatever mental gymnastics necessary to convince themselves that they aren't. Because each person is only giving a couple dollars a month, the developer only really needs to provide like $5 of value a month to each patron in order for them to feel as though they are getting somewhat equal value in return. If 1 person was giving you $1000 a month they would most likely expect a lot more in return than 1 wallpaper a month. But if instead, you have 1000 people giving you $1 a month, a wallpaper will seem pretty fair.

All this being said, if the dev is having health issues I wish them the best. They've made a great game that has provided me with many hours of enjoyment. My paragraph above is more of a statement on the overall economics of Patreon and VNs than a direct criticism of this game or developer in particular. It's just a comment in this thread prompted me to write on this topic. The value of any game is something that is subjective, so it's up to those who choose to contribute money to decide whether it's worth it or not. But I also think it is important for people to understand the incentive structure that Patreon puts in place, and to start judging developers on their actions, or at least not just immediately believing excuse after excuse. To be fair, I am a huge procrastinator and I'd imagine that with the payment model of Patreon it can be very easy to let deadlines slip and eventually get into the habit of it, especially when you have a community that is extremely kind and supports you even when you miss the deadlines you give them. While Patreon and funding models like it have their issues, for the moment they seem to be the best funding model we have for this kind of content. Personally, I'd like developers and artists to be able to make a living off of their work, even if it means that some people may end up abusing the system and the trust of those who support them. All things considered, this funding model isn't too bad especially since with sites like F95 not only are devs able to make money from making these games but it is still possible for everyone to experience the games even if they aren't able/willing to pay for them (everyone wins!?). It just kinda sucks that time after time the best adult games I find on F95 end up taking longer and longer and longer and longer and longer to get updates.

I did not plan on writing anywhere near this much. But hopefully, it made a bit of sense and someone out there got something out of it.

yep, every 2nd abandoned game was abandoned due to "health problems" or "broken computer"
kinda suspicious

 

[xxxLNxxx]

yep, every 2nd abandoned game was abandoned due to "health problems" or "broken computer"
kinda suspicious

Not really suspicious, it's pretty obvious what's happening. Few humans have the drive and discipline to finish projects that go on for years. One day you have inspiration and you start the project and then it wanes and disappears over time.
You can't expect them to have the brutal honesty to come out and say I am a failure and I just don't want to continue creating this something you are all invested in. Closest passable excuse they can come up with for their lack of drive is mental health problems and that's how you get the same lame explanation over and over.
I don't really blame devs when it happens, most projects are doomed to fail. Its just a result of inherent human trait. Nothing malicious there. Now, when I believe devs are subject to criticism is when another human trait comes into play - greed. When they know they tapped out and no progress is being done on the project but they still squeeze the free money just because they can. Unfortunately this dev turned into one of those.

 

[Terminator_26F]

When you embark on a pharaonic project, of whatever nature, you have to be sure of being able to complete it within "reasonable" deadlines. The story must already be conceived and written in its broad outlines and that until its denouement. Above all, it is necessary to avoid modifying and increasing the scenario according to the requests of the amateurs and to avoid unexpected twists which would not have been carefully incorporated into the scenario from the start. The more time passes, the more complicated it becomes, the more we forget about the goals and the means to achieve them. What I fear is that DEV has gotten to a point where he don't quite know how to evolve his story and how to finish it. Not to mention the temptation to extract the maximum amount of money from his supporters.