VN Ren'Py Abandoned Estate : Dominate [v0.36.1] [Henissart]

[Fiufia]

Laughable. The last update was sept 2020. I don't care what the dev writes about an update released when its done. How does that look in reality when almost 1.5 years has gone by without an update. Literally no info about what he is working on, just "shut up and you will get it when I am happy with my overly perfectionist project".

Go and check the updates for the monster excuse list as to why nothing has moved. If he said "My dog ate my PC and then went and ate the cloud server where I have it backed up at!" I would not be surprised. In fact the re-render last spring was pretty much this anyway.

Don't talk down to people. We have been in this forum for a long time. Hell I signed on because of how much I liked this game. However I am now playing other ones because a fairly short game hasn't had ANY, not a major, not a minor, update in a long long time. Now that may sit fine with those of you that can't separate your personal submissiveness(you need to wait SLAVE!), however with most of us that are just playing a game and find the topic interesting its a no go.

I am going to unfollow this thread because there is no point giving this wallpaper app any more attention. Love the renders, interesting dialogue(though the premise is stupid we will let it slide because we need the plot to advance) don't even mind a bit of a wait for some anticipation. But its like those indie games you keep hoping get a patch to fix a mid game bug that crashes the entire game. And it just never comes to pass. Oh well it had great promise you think and you move on.

This makes the delays on cyberpunk look like a minor hiccup. And we saw how bad that one was even with its delays. The longer it goes the more people expect, until they don't at all.

If you want to criticize the dev or don't believe him go ahead. I don't care about that and I won't comment (I probably agree with you)
But if you come with BS comments that make no sense yes i will say something.
And no I don't need to "Go and check the updates for the monster excuse list as to why nothing has moved" because I'm not defending the dev I'm just criticizing your comment. In case you don't understand they are two very different things.

Why don't you go read what you quote form f96zonetrooper and try to make sense of what you answered.
You can't because as i told you "What you wrote and what the dev wrote are 2 completely different things" but you come here say it's the same thing.
Basically you come criticize someone for giving you BS giving BS to everyone here.

And don't even come talk about how long you've been here. That just makes it seem like you want to give yourself credibility because you don't have good arguments

Edit - I went to see your last activity . and you really need to discover more games. because most of your interactions on this forum are here to criticize and support those who criticize. you have so many good games here try to discover new things and stop to be another angry guy on the internet

 

[infomercial]

Hello I'll just forward to a post from 2 years ago so I can say "I knew it" and stroke my ego a little bit: https://f95zone.to/threads/estate-dominate-v0-36-1-henissart.29298/post-3104660

So anyway, the guy MIGHT be continuing the development, the math works. The game was simply too ambitious for a one man project. However this doesn't change the fact that he has done a terrible job planning and PR wise. At this point he should just focus on being done with one of the paths if he cares about finishing this.

 

[Skylaroo]

Laughable. The last update was sept 2020. I don't care what the dev writes about an update released when its done.

Agreed on this part. This is why I never like the crowd who championed the "when it's ready" release date. Devs don't have to always hit the target with release date (it's always better to under-promise and over-deliver), but not having any estimate release date at all means the devs are acting without plan which is bad. What makes it worse is that the devs might not even realize it's a problem because they don't take any accountability with their work.

Imagine going to a restaurant for lunch and you order your meal only to be told that your meal will come out whenever it's ready. Then you wait. And wait. And wait some more. You're getting hungry, really hungry. While the chef just took their time. Before you know it, it's now 10pm and you're still waiting for the meal that hasn't come out. Then you overheard the chef yelling from the kitchen, "Don't worry, I'm still making your meal. It'll come out when it's ready." It's a lose-lose situation by that point.

 

[f96zonetrooper]

Agreed on this part. This is why I never like the crowd who championed the "when it's ready" release date. Devs don't have to always hit the target with release date (it's always better to under-promise and over-deliver), but not having any estimate release date at all means the devs are acting without plan which is bad. What makes it worse is that the devs might not even realize it's a problem because they don't take any accountability with their work.

Imagine going to a restaurant for lunch and you order your meal only to be told that your meal will come out whenever it's ready. Then you wait. And wait. And wait some more. You're getting hungry, really hungry. While the chef just took their time. Before you know it, it's now 10pm and you're still waiting for the meal that hasn't come out. Then you overheard the chef yelling from the kitchen, "Don't worry, I'm still making your meal. It'll come out when it's ready." It's a lose-lose situation by that point.

AfaIk patreon is very different from business types like restaurant, (online)shop, etc.

On patreon you voluntarily support a dev because you like what the dev produced in the past and may produce in the future. You don't buy a product (except maybe for those guarantied wallpapers and extra renders for high tiers per month) and so you have no legal claim on the dev, especially the dev does not become the work slave or employee of his patrons. So the example with the restaurant falls short. You cannot order or demand a finished game or game update on patreon. You can support a dev and if the project does not run as expected you can cancel your patronage.

Having to communicate with hundreds of (angry) patrons with individual wishes may easily kill every one-man-project because the communication burns all the time and energy which were better spend working on the project or for rest and recreation.

Even successful devs like DPC (BaDIK) use the "when it's ready" strategy ... they wait with communicating a release date until they are sure they can keep it.

 

[noway1]

AfaIk patreon is very different from business types like restaurant, (online)shop, etc.

On patreon you voluntarily support a dev because you like what the dev produced in the past and may produce in the future. You don't buy a product (except maybe for those guarantied wallpapers and extra renders for high tiers per month) and so you have no legal claim on the dev, especially the dev does not become the work slave or employee of his patrons. So the example with the restaurant falls short. You cannot order or demand a finished game or game update on patreon. You can support a dev and if the project does not run as expected you can cancel your patronage.

Having to communicate with hundreds of (angry) patrons with individual wishes may easily kill every one-man-project because the communication burns all the time and energy which were better spend working on the project or for rest and recreation.

Even successful devs like DPC (BaDIK) use the "when it's ready" strategy ... they wait with communicating a release date until they are sure they can keep it.

Yes, the metaphor with the restaurant is not fitting.
But, if you open up a patreon page, you have to consider that the expectations of a part of the audience is still like in the restaurant metaphor. If you open up patreon and do not deliver (updates, proper communication), you must expect a mob of angry people anyway.
It's like wanting to become a famous rock star, but than complain about privacy issues. "Oh all those people have no rights to disturb me and take photos of my private garden behind the house".

 

[Skylaroo]

So the example with the restaurant falls short.

You're too focused in trying to find the difference between patreon and restaurant that you completely missed the point. I never for once mentioned that they function the same. I didn't even mention the payment/donation because the money is not the point. The analogy is about the silliness of saying "when it's ready" without having any plan.

For example, the last update has been more than a year ago. Can an update take more than a year to develop? Absolutely yes. But there's a big difference between "I have so much to do and it'd take me more than a year to develop the next update" (having a plan) and "I'm just going to take whatever time because it'll be ready whenever it's ready and I have zero idea when it'll be ready" (no plan).

Having to communicate with hundreds of (angry) patrons with individual wishes may easily kill every one-man-project because the communication burns all the time and energy which were better spend working on the project or for rest and recreation.

You're massively exaggerating on this. If dev is worried about communicating, they can do what most other devs do and simply keep the communication one-way (devs making announcement) rather than two-ways (devs replying to patrons). Staying silent simply makes things worse. It's also questionable to use time/energy as an excuse as if more than a year is not enough time.

Even successful devs like DPC (BaDIK) use the "when it's ready" strategy ... they wait with communicating a release date until they are sure they can keep it.

This is a completely different scenario than what's happening here. In BADIK's case, the "when it's ready" is used simply to not give specific time-frame of the next update, but it isn't an issue because BADIK has the track record of consistent update cycle along with ample amount of content that warranted the length of development time. So while they don't publicize their release date, it's pretty clear that they internally do have a rough deadline on their work. They have a plan.

In this case, there is no track record of consistent update considering that we've had a few updates for the first 17 months, and we haven't had a single update for the 16 months (and counting) after that. "When it's ready" should not be used and accepted as an excuse if without any valid justification. The lack of transparency leans heavily toward "when it's ready" being used as a magic word for the dev to not hold themselves accountable.

Going back to the restaurant analogy, the problem is not just you being hungry waiting for the meal, but it's also that the chef being oblivious that still making the meal at 10pm when the order was for lunch is a big problem. That's why I said it's a lose-lose situation. You don't get the food, and the chef had no awareness of their inability to cook the meal in a timely manner thinking that everything is going ok.

That's what we're seeing here, the dev being unaware that taking more than 16 months and still not being able to produce an update is problematic, and it isn't something that they should hide behind the "when it's ready" mantra. You might think I just want to talk shit about the dev, but it isn't about that. This whole thing is very avoidable by making reasonable plan, and being transparent and honest if the plan didn't work out. For example, the last I saw was the dev mentioning release date around mid-October by the end of September. We are now in mid-January. That's 3 months and counting since then. The questions are:
1. Why was there a planned release date in mid-October to begin with? Was the update "almost ready" by the end of September?
2. Why was it missed? Was it because the dev was unable complete that last bit in time? Was there a change about something else? Did something break?
3. Why was it still not done 3 months after? That's an extra 20% of development time and it's still not enough? Surely the problem is bigger than initially thought?
4. "When it's ready" release date? Does that mean now the dev has even less idea as to when the update is going to be ready?

Those are all valid questions that pointed towards the lack of planning by the dev. Using "when it's ready" here is poor because it simply hid the problem and just make the dev think they were doing fine.

 

[Fiufia]

You're too focused in trying to find the difference between patreon and restaurant that you completely missed the point. I never for once mentioned that they function the same. I didn't even mention the payment/donation because the money is not the point. The analogy is about the silliness of saying "when it's ready" without having any plan.

For example, the last update has been more than a year ago. Can an update take more than a year to develop? Absolutely yes. But there's a big difference between "I have so much to do and it'd take me more than a year to develop the next update" (having a plan) and "I'm just going to take whatever time because it'll be ready whenever it's ready and I have zero idea when it'll be ready" (no plan).


You're massively exaggerating on this. If dev is worried about communicating, they can do what most other devs do and simply keep the communication one-way (devs making announcement) rather than two-ways (devs replying to patrons). Staying silent simply makes things worse. It's also questionable to use time/energy as an excuse as if more than a year is not enough time.


This is a completely different scenario than what's happening here. In BADIK's case, the "when it's ready" is used simply to not give specific time-frame of the next update, but it isn't an issue because BADIK has the track record of consistent update cycle along with ample amount of content that warranted the length of development time. So while they don't publicize their release date, it's pretty clear that they internally do have a rough deadline on their work. They have a plan.

In this case, there is no track record of consistent update considering that we've had a few updates for the first 17 months, and we haven't had a single update for the 16 months (and counting) after that. "When it's ready" should not be used and accepted as an excuse if without any valid justification. The lack of transparency leans heavily toward "when it's ready" being used as a magic word for the dev to not hold themselves accountable.

Going back to the restaurant analogy, the problem is not just you being hungry waiting for the meal, but it's also that the chef being oblivious that still making the meal at 10pm when the order was for lunch is a big problem. That's why I said it's a lose-lose situation. You don't get the food, and the chef had no awareness of their inability to cook the meal in a timely manner thinking that everything is going ok.

That's what we're seeing here, the dev being unaware that taking more than 16 months and still not being able to produce an update is problematic, and it isn't something that they should hide behind the "when it's ready" mantra. You might think I just want to talk shit about the dev, but it isn't about that. This whole thing is very avoidable by making reasonable plan, and being transparent and honest if the plan didn't work out. For example, the last I saw was the dev mentioning release date around mid-October by the end of September. We are now in mid-January. That's 3 months and counting since then. The questions are:
1. Why was there a planned release date in mid-October to begin with? Was the update "almost ready" by the end of September?
2. Why was it missed? Was it because the dev was unable complete that last bit in time? Was there a change about something else? Did something break?
3. Why was it still not done 3 months after? That's an extra 20% of development time and it's still not enough? Surely the problem is bigger than initially thought?
4. "When it's ready" release date? Does that mean now the dev has even less idea as to when the update is going to be ready?

Those are all valid questions that pointed towards the lack of planning by the dev. Using "when it's ready" here is poor because it simply hid the problem and just make the dev think they were doing fine.

just to clarify because of my last post here. I agree with most of what you said and dont think you are one of the ones that just want to talk shit about the dev.
I just think that the dev decision to not speak and not give dates was the best decision he made. because it seems he is not very good at communicating.
And at this point how things are no matter what he says pll will criticize anyway (and it's understandable) the only way to calm things down is to release a good update. and even so I bet you will see ppl complaining

I could be wrong and he could be just giving more BS. but if he is really working on the game I think the decision to not speak was a good one

 

[f96zonetrooper]

You're too focused in trying to find the difference between patreon and restaurant that you completely missed the point. I never for once mentioned that they function the same. I didn't even mention the payment/donation because the money is not the point. The analogy is about the silliness of saying "when it's ready" without having any plan.

For example, the last update has been more than a year ago. Can an update take more than a year to develop? Absolutely yes. But there's a big difference between "I have so much to do and it'd take me more than a year to develop the next update" (having a plan) and "I'm just going to take whatever time because it'll be ready whenever it's ready and I have zero idea when it'll be ready" (no plan).


You're massively exaggerating on this. If dev is worried about communicating, they can do what most other devs do and simply keep the communication one-way (devs making announcement) rather than two-ways (devs replying to patrons). Staying silent simply makes things worse. It's also questionable to use time/energy as an excuse as if more than a year is not enough time.


This is a completely different scenario than what's happening here. In BADIK's case, the "when it's ready" is used simply to not give specific time-frame of the next update, but it isn't an issue because BADIK has the track record of consistent update cycle along with ample amount of content that warranted the length of development time. So while they don't publicize their release date, it's pretty clear that they internally do have a rough deadline on their work. They have a plan.

In this case, there is no track record of consistent update considering that we've had a few updates for the first 17 months, and we haven't had a single update for the 16 months (and counting) after that. "When it's ready" should not be used and accepted as an excuse if without any valid justification. The lack of transparency leans heavily toward "when it's ready" being used as a magic word for the dev to not hold themselves accountable.

Going back to the restaurant analogy, the problem is not just you being hungry waiting for the meal, but it's also that the chef being oblivious that still making the meal at 10pm when the order was for lunch is a big problem. That's why I said it's a lose-lose situation. You don't get the food, and the chef had no awareness of their inability to cook the meal in a timely manner thinking that everything is going ok.

That's what we're seeing here, the dev being unaware that taking more than 16 months and still not being able to produce an update is problematic, and it isn't something that they should hide behind the "when it's ready" mantra. You might think I just want to talk shit about the dev, but it isn't about that. This whole thing is very avoidable by making reasonable plan, and being transparent and honest if the plan didn't work out. For example, the last I saw was the dev mentioning release date around mid-October by the end of September. We are now in mid-January. That's 3 months and counting since then. The questions are:
1. Why was there a planned release date in mid-October to begin with? Was the update "almost ready" by the end of September?
2. Why was it missed? Was it because the dev was unable complete that last bit in time? Was there a change about something else? Did something break?
3. Why was it still not done 3 months after? That's an extra 20% of development time and it's still not enough? Surely the problem is bigger than initially thought?
4. "When it's ready" release date? Does that mean now the dev has even less idea as to when the update is going to be ready?

Those are all valid questions that pointed towards the lack of planning by the dev. Using "when it's ready" here is poor because it simply hid the problem and just make the dev think they were doing fine.

You sound like a person who hired the dev and paid him 100,000 $ (or Euro) per year in advance to work on the game and now is worrying about his money ...

The dev financed the project mostly with his own funding, worked hundreds of hours per month with a patreon income around 1000 $ while living costs in his country are probably much higher which was constantly eating up his savings ... it is obvious that he could not continue the project like this forever. At some point he has to take a break to not burn out and depending on his savings at some point he also has to look for a paid full- or part-time job to not go bankrupt.
It is obvious that the change from a fulltime project to a fulltime job with side project multiplies the times between game updates. I don't have the numbers, but if you assume that the dev worked ca 1,000 hours per update every 3 months (ca 11 h per day), then reducing the workload to 20 hours per week would already increase time between updates to ca 1 year. However doing the game as a side-project is probably less efficient, so the time between updates could easily grow to 2 years. (This is just an example, I don't have the real numbers.)
In this case the dev probably should consider to make much smaller updates to keep his patrons onboard.

While some devs tell their patrons every detail of their private and business life including sickness, handicaps, deaths in family, etc., the devs are not obliged to do so. And no dev is obliged to ruin his health, wealth and life for a game project he posted on patreon.

 

[BorgiaBou]

You don't buy a product (except maybe for those guarantied wallpapers and extra renders for high tiers per month) and so you have no legal claim on the dev, especially the dev does not become the work slave or employee of his patrons.

The heck you talking about, you seem to forget that pretty much all devs have GOALS on their patreon in which they pretty much promise something in return for your financial help and when those GOALS are achived and they broke their word then we have a problem... so what are we talking about that we don't buy a product here cuz we are...

 

[f96zonetrooper]

The heck you talking about, you seem to forget that pretty much all devs have GOALS on their patreon in which they pretty much promise something in return for your financial help and when those GOALS are achived and they broke their word then we have a problem... so what are we talking about that we don't buy a product here cuz we are...

What do you buy when becoming a patreon?

(quoted from the patreon page)

ca 1 $ :
"Access to the Patreon feed with development news and preview images
Membership in the private Discord community"

ca 5 $ :
"Estate : Dominate updates on release day
Monthly 4K wallpaper
Any other bonus content I publish
Access to the Patreon feed with development news and preview images
Membership in the private Discord community"

There is no talk about any release schedules, just that he is working on the project.
What you buy is access to communication, bonus art and older versions as well as early access IF there is a new version.
According to patreon, there were 6 versions so far, 1-2 are free and 3-6 are exclusive for the 5 $ tier.

 

[DarkDemon]

What do you buy when becoming a patreon?

(quoted from the patreon page)

ca 1 $ :
"Access to the Patreon feed with development news and preview images
Membership in the private Discord community"

ca 5 $ :
"Estate : Dominate updates on release day
Monthly 4K wallpaper
Any other bonus content I publish
Access to the Patreon feed with development news and preview images
Membership in the private Discord community"

There is no talk about any release schedules, just that he is working on the project.
What you buy is access to communication, bonus art and older versions as well as early access IF there is a new version.
According to patreon, there were 6 versions so far, 1-2 are free and 3-6 are exclusive for the 5 $ tier.

 

[f96zonetrooper]

View attachment 1602143

Current funding is ca 40% of what the dev estimates he would need for living without exhausting his resources. (I wonder if he actually considered tax.) If he now works only 40% of fulltime, updates will take longer, especially if he worked like 150% - 200% fulltime in the beginning when he was fully motivated.

There are no development nor release goals mentioned besides him trying to make "the best possible game" if funding allows him to continue working fulltime.

 

[Odin73]

IF Dev need more money then Dev need to keep up with updates. This game is awesome but if Dev not keeping up then game will go to trash just like Milfy City

 

[Lammehand]

I hope everything is alright with the dev and his team, this game is just awesome and unique in its sort would love to see more of it. So DEV, keep up the good work and I hope everything is alright and i wish you all the best.

 

[Skylaroo]

just to clarify because of my last post here. I agree with most of what you said and dont think you are one of the ones that just want to talk shit about the dev.

Just to be clear, I wasn't talking about you. I quoted the other guy, so all good

You sound like a person who hired the dev and paid him 100,000 $ (or Euro) per year in advance to work on the game and now is worrying about his money ...

You sound like a person who will just accept any excuse and not worried about the dev digging bigger and bigger and bigger hole while believing that you're concerned about the dev's wellbeing. Despite me already posting that money is not even the point, your post is still focused on the money. Let me repeat once again, the point is about how bad saying "when it's ready" is without having any plan.

The dev financed the project mostly with his own funding, worked hundreds of hours per month with a patreon income around 1000 $ while living costs in his country are probably much higher which was constantly eating up his savings ... it is obvious that he could not continue the project like this forever. At some point he has to take a break to not burn out and depending on his savings at some point he also has to look for a paid full- or part-time job to not go bankrupt.
It is obvious that the change from a fulltime project to a fulltime job with side project multiplies the times between game updates. I don't have the numbers, but if you assume that the dev worked ca 1,000 hours per update every 3 months (ca 11 h per day), then reducing the workload to 20 hours per week would already increase time between updates to ca 1 year. However doing the game as a side-project is probably less efficient, so the time between updates could easily grow to 2 years. (This is just an example, I don't have the real numbers.)
In this case the dev probably should consider to make much smaller updates to keep his patrons onboard.

You even went to the length of making detailed hypothetical scenario despite not knowing what actually happened. However, even in your hypothetical scenario, you still had plan. You made up things like working 11 hours per day, or update could take as long as 2 years, etc. To me, that's fine. The point is not about how long it takes (I even made it clear when I previously said that updates can absolutely take more than a year to develop). The point is whether there's plan or not (a year because there's a lot to do, or a year because no idea what's happening). The dev staying silent and hiding behind "when it's ready" continued to hint heavily on the dev having no plan.

You continue to just accept any excuse and not willing to question anything. If by the end of September the dev said that update would be ready in a few weeks time, and now it has been more than 3 months since, you're ok with how the finishing touch of the update that was supposed to take 2 weeks ballooned into 12+ weeks. If you truly believe in what you said in bold in your hypothetical scenario that I quoted above, you should definitely give that as constructive criticism to the dev. Make him understand that what he's currently doing is not working well, and there are ways that he could do to improve.

 

[gio1243]

For newcomers to this thread:

This game hasn't released an update in well over a year, it has however released several release dates and a bunch of wallpapers ... you can decide for yourself if it's abandoned or not and factor that into your decision on offering a patreon pledge.

 

[TheManFromEarth]

What a great little game. I think I'm in love with Anja.

I wish the developer good luck with any future updates that will hopefully still follow.

 

[joker2008]

This is my big problem with the whole Patreon model. You're basically paying for a subscription. In most cases tiered at that but nothing there is actually guaranteed. A dev can and will and we have seen it before, not saying this dev, consistently take money and then a project does get abandoned and patreons are left with nothing but bad feelings. And don't get me wrong developers deserve to get paid for their work but consumers are deserve to get what they paid for. Can you imagine if a triple AAA studio trying to do this with normal gamers, never happen and if it did money would either have to be refunded or class action. Patreon's business model has always been shady at best. Yeah there are developers out there you know are pretty much are going to follow through but if abandonment was so rare F95 and other sites wouldn't have an abandoned section. Now Patreon could force developers to submit a plan and money goes to escrow. Developer provides release date for update and money is released when that update is completed. Patreon would never do that though because it would then make them legally accountable.

 

[ButTom459]

I like how this game transitioned genres from femdom to findom.

 

[Behappy69]

Anyone got any idea when there will be an update? I feel like it has been over a year and nothing. I really like this one and I checked it again as I hadn't seen it updated on new releases but when I checked my version it was the same that save game file is from 24/3/2021 so not a year but getting really close. Really looking forward to the next update.