Ren'Py Family, Friends and Strangers [v2024.01] [JohnAndRich]

[Rich]

I can look past the no incest, but it's really shitty how there's no internal dialog for the mom, given all she's going through. This is a great example of a game with a male protagonist for no good reason. Other than maybe the dev just doesn't know how to write women. The son is one thing, but why the fuck do we have to read what the asshole cop abusing her is thinking? Meanwhile she's like, "..." so he or her son can describe her experience for us. It's so cringe.

So, I'll answer you here, since your profile is set up such that I couldn't start a PM with you to respond to the review where you make an extended version of this same complaint.

This story was very consciously designed to be done with multiple male protagonists and to be "from their point of view" at any given time. Parker and Bill, of course, being the primary ones, but with a bit of Carl thrown in. So, you're not "hearing Bill's thoughts," you are "being Bill" at one moment in time, and then later shifting to "being Parker" or "being Carl." Hence the fact that all the narration is done in the first person, regardless of who is the "MC of the moment," and that it's rare (no sure I ever did it, but I might be misremembering) that you switch points of view during a scene.

Since you're supposed to be put in the protagonists' shoes at any given point, this is very specifically why you do not hear the thoughts of the other characters. Even the other protagonists. When you "are Parker" in a scene involving him and Bill, you don't hear Bill's thoughts, because Parker can't. When you "are Bill," you don't hear Parker's thoughts, for the same reason. Although, of course, you may figure them out later when the story shifts back to the other's point of view. And none of the females are protagonists (again, conscious choice), so you never "are them," and then never "hear their thoughts." (Exception: In the "Scenes that Didn't Happen" companion, there are scenes told from female POV's.)

Essentially, you're intentionally left guessing as to what's going on in the other characters' heads, just the way that the protagonists are. This is particularly the case for the female characters - Parker's supposed to be confused about them, and guess wrong. You, as the reader, are supposed to empathize with him and also wonder what they are thinking, because you don't know what's going on in their heads either.

All that being said, I'm perfectly OK with the fact that you don't particularly care for this - that you want a story where you're "inside the minds of all the characters at all times." I just don't happen to prefer that particular method of storytelling, as it feels like it takes all the mystery out of some of the events. In fact, in my own experience, giving you the thoughts of someone other than the protagonist is a very rare thing outside of adult games - I don't ever remember reading a novel where that was done "as events happened," even if the novel uses multiple protagonists. Not saying it never happens, just that I don't recall ever having seen it.

So, bottom line, this aspect of the story was a very conscious choice, right from the beginning. Sorry that you didn't care for it. Good luck finding projects that you like more.

 

[Rich]

Still so disappointed this game will NOT have incest like the original literotica stories did. I know this is a creative project based loosely off those stories, but the game had so much potential to develop in that direction. Damn

Sigh. As the immediately previous response, this was a conscious decision right from the beginning of the project. This has been repeated over and over and over again in this thread.

Just remember that JohnCBB, who wrote the Literotica stories, was the primary writer of this story in the beginning, and he very much did not want to go down that particular path with this project. He very consciously wanted a "reset and go where he thought it really should have gone."

I know that incest is one of the most popular tropes around this place, but you'll just have to deal with the fact that there's at least one story here that has a mother, son and daughter that does not go down that particular path. So, perhaps it'd be better if you focused on some of the story telling in Scenes That Didn't Happen, or else leave Parker's world altogether and find another project you like better.

 

[Rich]

Me seeing brad at the start: Oh no, not another stereotypical football bully...

Five minutes later: I didn't realize you were chill like that! Aight you good

LOL. Thank you.

FYI, the "football player vs soccer player competition" was taken from real life - son of a close friend of mine.

 

[Six0]

[snip]

All that being said, I'm perfectly OK with the fact that you don't particularly care for this - that you want a story where you're "inside the minds of all the characters at all times." I just don't happen to prefer that particular method of storytelling, as it feels like it takes all the mystery out of some of the events. In fact, in my own experience, giving you the thoughts of someone other than the protagonist is a very rare thing outside of adult games - I don't ever remember reading a novel where that was done "as events happened," even if the novel uses multiple protagonists. Not saying it never happens, just that I don't recall ever having seen it.

So, bottom line, this aspect of the story was a very conscious choice, right from the beginning. Sorry that you didn't care for it. Good luck finding projects that you like more.

That is not what I want and it's not what I look for in most stories. What I'm saying is it's very chauvinistic of you to be telling the story from three different men before you'd give the one woman going through the worst of it an ounce of character development. If it were just the son, I'd understand that. It'd still be annoying, but at least we wouldn't be made to read the cringe thoughts of a pig.

Here are a few examples of Bill's thoughts taken from the script:

    Line 728:     billn "I could see the gears in her head working behind her lost eyes."
    Line 891:     billn "She really is a good student. She’ll go far."
    Line 425:     billn "Ah, yes. The “day-after morality show.” Happens like clockwork."
    Line 472:     billn "Motherhood instinct. You gotta love it."
    Line 499:     billn "And there it is. Biology over morality every time."

Why do we need to know these things over what's going through the Melissa's mind instead? I'll tell you why, because he's your self-insert. You say it was a conscious choice to write the story this way and trust me, I know. It was the atypical conscious choice of a male writer to have zero empathy for their female characters. Even if the protagonist was a woman, you'd still anchor story telling to a man. Be it a random nobody or someone close to her. Even that "scenes that didn't happen" DLC of yours does this when you tell Melissa's story entirely from Tom's point of view.

 

[Rich]

That is not what I want and it's not what I look for in most stories. What I'm saying is it's very chauvinistic of you to be telling the story from three different men before you'd give the one woman going through the worst of it an ounce of character development.

As I said, thanks for stopping by, and good luck finding a project whose writing you like better.

I also look forward to your game/story in which you'll demonstrate the "proper" way to develop the characters.

 

[TheUberstuff]

That is not what I want and it's not what I look for in most stories. What I'm saying is it's very chauvinistic of you to be telling the story from three different men before you'd give the one woman going through the worst of it an ounce of character development. If it were just the son, I'd understand that. It'd still be annoying, but at least we wouldn't be made to read the cringe thoughts of a pig.

Here are a few examples of Bill's thoughts taken from the script:

    Line 728:     billn "I could see the gears in her head working behind her lost eyes."
    Line 891:     billn "She really is a good student. She’ll go far."
    Line 425:     billn "Ah, yes. The “day-after morality show.” Happens like clockwork."
    Line 472:     billn "Motherhood instinct. You gotta love it."
    Line 499:     billn "And there it is. Biology over morality every time."

Why do we need to know these things over what's going through the Melissa's mind instead? I'll tell you why, because he's your self-insert. You say it was a conscious choice to write the story this way and trust me, I know. It was the atypical conscious choice of a male writer to have zero empathy for their female characters. Even if the protagonist was a woman, you'd still anchor story telling to a man. Be it a random nobody or someone close to her. Even that "scenes that didn't happen" DLC of yours does this when you tell Melissa's story entirely from Tom's point of view.

damn dude, complain more. Maybe write your own story/game? Getting tired of all these woke idiots.

 

[Night Hacker]

As I said, thanks for stopping by, and good luck finding a project whose writing you like better.

I also look forward to your game/story in which you'll demonstrate the "proper" way to develop the characters.

I know in the past, when people used to be respectful, it was always considered rude to tell an author how to write their story.

 

[Rich]

I know in the past, when people used to be respectful, it was always considered rude to tell an author how to write their story.

...and I try hard not to overreact to that type of criticism, although I do fail sometimes. Sigh.

Mark Twain had

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, some of which I love.

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is a hoot as well.

For the record, however, the vast, vast majority of the comments that have been made in this thread have been supportive, or have been constructive criticism, and I'm thankful for that. I'm also not offended if someone doesn't like this project - everybody has their own tastes, and there's no way to appeal to them all. Finally, this story was targeted at somewhat of a niche from the start, so it's only to be expected that it won't have the kind of appeal that some of the others might.

 

[crotch69]

Why do we need to know these things over what's going through the Melissa's mind instead? I'll tell you why, because he's your self-insert. You say it was a conscious choice to write the story this way and trust me, I know. It was the atypical conscious choice of a male writer to have zero empathy for their female characters. Even if the protagonist was a woman, you'd still anchor story telling to a man. Be it a random nobody or someone close to her. Even that "scenes that didn't happen" DLC of yours does this when you tell Melissa's story entirely from Tom's point of view.

Cathy Newman is that you? Just reminded me of that skit with Peterson.

 

[mrMarko]

I renew my compliments to Rich for this VN, which never ceases to amaze me.
I only had the opportunity to play the new version yesterday and I didn't expect the drastic change of Parker, into a son of a bitch equal to the cops. I didn't expect him to be so furious with poor Ashley.
At this point I have an idea of how it will end: Parker is now screwed!
I could venture the plot, but if it were true it would only be a huge spoiler, so I'll keep quiet!

Congratulations again to Rich!

 

[Rich]

I renew my compliments to Rich for this VN, which never ceases to amaze me.
I only had the opportunity to play the new version yesterday and I didn't expect the drastic change of Parker, into a son of a bitch equal to the cops. I didn't expect him to be so furious with poor Ashley.
At this point I have an idea of how it will end: Parker is now screwed!
I could venture the plot, but if it were true it would only be a huge spoiler, so I'll keep quiet!

Congratulations again to Rich!

Thank you, mrMarko. Your kind words mean a lot.

Yes, as you've observed, the "a" path is the "Parker goes to the dark side" route. This is actually the story that JohnCBB and I had blocked out from the beginning. We jokingly referred to it as "Darth Parker" - kind of paralleling Anakin's transformation into Darth Vader. The "b" path ("Parker as hero" / "Happy ending") was an alternate path that I couldn't resist putting in... just because. But the concepts for that path came much later.

A little disappointed that the "good guy" route is shorter reinforcing the common VN trope of being bad getting more sex scenes.

I didn't respond to this particular item earlier, asahibito, but the above is the explanation for your observation. It wasn't consciously intending to reinforce that trope - it's simply due to the fact that when JohnCBB was still involved, we'd blocked out a lot more possible content for the "bad guy" path, because originally that was going to be all there was - just the one path. I just didn't do as good a job at fleshing out the "good guy" path on my own due to my own deficiencies as a writer.

 

[shavone1]

Damn... Parker's mum is worth it just to play this game.

 

[Deleted member 3869711]

Damn... Parker's mum is worth it just to play this game.

Have you seen her here? https://f95zone.to/threads/ff-s-scenes-that-didnt-happen-v2023-10-rich.133086/

 

[shavone1]

Have you seen her here? https://f95zone.to/threads/ff-s-scenes-that-didnt-happen-v2023-10-rich.133086/

Ya mon, instant download haha

 

[Rich]

Damn... Parker's mum is worth it just to play this game.

Why, thank you! I worked hard on her character's "look." As you've probably figured out, she's not just a "take a stock Daz character and run with it."

 

[Night Hacker]

Why, thank you! I worked hard on her character's "look." As you've probably figured out, she's not just a "take a stock Daz character and run with it."

Hmmm... sounds like a challenge. I need to work on recreating her now! She's a nice looking creation anyhow, nice work. Reminds me a little bit of people I have known in life.

 

[shavone1]

Why, thank you! I worked hard on her character's "look." As you've probably figured out, she's not just a "take a stock Daz character and run with it."

For sure, having a beautiful model makes the game much more enjoyable. I'm glad you tweaked it to your liking.

 

[Rich]

Hmmm... sounds like a challenge. I need to work on recreating her now!

You're obviously welcome to try. I've been asked several times to "give up my formula so I can make fan art" and haven't agreed to so far. FYI, she's a blend of three different Daz Studio characters, with additional knob-twiddling on top of it, so "pretty heavily customized."

Maybe some day...

She's a nice looking creation anyhow, nice work. Reminds me a little bit of people I have known in life.

And, again, thank you.

 

[Night Hacker]

You're obviously welcome to try. I've been asked several times to "give up my formula so I can make fan art" and haven't agreed to so far. FYI, she's a blend of three different Daz Studio characters, with additional knob-twiddling on top of it, so "pretty heavily customized."

Knob twiddling you say? Sounds like fun.

 

[Night Hacker]

You're obviously welcome to try. I've been asked several times to "give up my formula so I can make fan art" and haven't agreed to so far. FYI, she's a blend of three different Daz Studio characters, with additional knob-twiddling on top of it, so "pretty heavily customized."

Maybe some day...



And, again, thank you.

I decided to give a crack at recreating Melissa... this is what I ended up with...

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