HTML Female Agent [v1.20.1p] [Crushstation]

[root]

i don't understand why this game has made literal 0 progress in 2 years and the dev is actually going to cut content before making more. Like I get what he said, it will make things easier to add in his words, but truly just make more content and your supporters will pay more...I don't get it

this game is very challenging, twine engine with 1500 passages and 2000 links, objects, variables (7,2MB html file) insane numbers, very difficult to grow

 

[berny]

Yep, that's sums it up.
The game is a disappointment, I agree completely, but the dev is absolutely not a scam artist and he is not milking anyone - if you would check his posts on Patreon, you would see that he is actually working his ass off - the problem that he is just incompetent, due to the lack of skill, knowledge and and an attitude, that's not compatible with such a big project - he literally told his patreon that he was considering abandoning his project because he felt bad that he letting his supporters down. I mean, come on...
But the point is - being bad at something is not a crime, and yet everyone who "critiques" this project tends to portrait Crush as a scammer, who "demands" money. I mean, sure, that's exactly how that works - when you agree to support a creator on Patreon you are a signing an eternal soulbound contract, which will charge a bajillion shekels from your credit cards every month. If only you'd had an option to somehow stop pledging.
I'm not saying that there aren't creators who are consciously post-poning updates for their project in order to make more money - but even in this cases you are not in any way forced to pay anything. And nor creators are required to meet expectations that you specifically set for them - and the amount of money that creators may earn from their Patreons shoudn't set any requirements either - because they don't ask for that amount of money, they are given that money from people who want to give that money to them - they may set "pay per release" system or they may not - and as long as they are not forcing anyone to pay for their games they can do what they want.

I completely agree with you.
I always heavily argued against the "patrons are responsible for their money" argument when people on this forum used it to defend lazy and shady developers. Not because the argument per se is wrong, but because people use it to blame the patrons instead of the scam artists that call themselves creators on patreon.
But in this case I agree with you about crush. Absolutely, the development has been (is?) an absolute disaster, but it's so bloody obvious and crush isn't really trying to hide the state of the development that I can't really blame crush for misleading anybody. Anybody who followed his posts must be aware that funding this project is a gamble with a low chance of success. Sure, he would be a great salesman for insurances, but that itself isn't really a crime. Like you said, he admitted that he was close to abandoning the game. If he is really trying to milk people, he is doing a pretty bad job.

 

[DrDerpington]

this game is very challenging, twine engine with 1500 passages and 2000 links, objects, variables (7,2MB html file) insane numbers, very difficult to grow

I sense sarcasm here.

 

[MidaHanna]

"and also did preliminary work on the new improved Bangkok! "

Taken DIRECTLY from patreon. He's just straight up lying now, is that it ? "New", really ? I literally laughed out loud.
Crush, when you say "new", that imply that there was something there before. There's no "new" bangkok cause you never made bangkok. And so long as it isnt implemented in a build that is not "dev only" it still doesnt exist.

I can't believe he's just straight up lying now. Getting more disappointed with each update/log.

 

[GitinGud]

I don't know why people even bother defending this kind of thing. I'd like to remind everyone that the Japanese more or less invented this entire Genre, and there are hundreds of Japanese devs that create and release games on a relatively consistent schedule with consistent quality all the time. They don't go months upon months, or even years with no meaningful updates. I follow a couple dozen different developers on Ci-En, and some of them have created and released MULTIPLE fantastic games in the time that this game has been in development. In some cases they work entirely solo on the game as well, creating CG, sprites, writing the game, programming it, bug-fixing it and often releasing post-launch updates that add all new content. Here's some that I like:

You must be registered to see the links

(Two games released since 2017, third in dev)

You must be registered to see the links

(Three games released since 2017, fourth in dev)

You must be registered to see the links

(Last game released last summer, next game scheduled for next month)

This is embarrassing, and indefensible. People are free to give money to whomever they wish, but nobody should pretend that this isn't unethical. Every single person that pays money into the development of a game for months only to receive zero new actual content and some bug fixes would be disappointed. I'm not going to go so far as to say that developers need to be sued or something, people are responsible for what they spend their money on and are equally responsible for this kind of outcome when they support a creator with a bad or inconsistent record, but the fact that people still run defense for games like this and Accidental Woman are insane to me. The Patreon model is perfectly suited to milking people for absurd amounts of money with almost zero accountability for your lack of actual effort or content and I wish more western developers would just develop the games and release them without demanding a steady stream of $5000 per month first.

Honestly i think you forgot the worst of them all: NewLife From SplendidOstrich. That guy is milking for years now and it’s a real shame given that he had laid the groundwork for a really interesting game; he just had to write scenes...

 

[Joe Steel]

Yeah, I'm sure the work that goes under the hood may be a lot, but that ultimately doesn't matter. When you're working, people only care about deliverables. Nobody cares that you've crunched a billion variables last night... only that you've presented a nice report with visuals. Sucks, but people don't pay for effort.

Except that what people are moaning about is that we patrons of Crush DO pay for effort!

Somehow, that offends them mightily - enough so that they will get on this thread and repeat what each other is saying, and each expresses shock... SHOCK! that those who've followed the process continue to support it.

 

[koshino]

Hell ... I played it just 2 days ago and I really liked this game. I was full of joy and enthusiasm! Until it turned out that the game is in a half-dead state. What a disappointment! It will be very bad if the author completely abandons the game. I hope that development will continue and the game will acquire new content, not just fixes. Or if the author throws the game, it will be developed by someone else (a guy named Jesus Christ, ). I'm just a big fan of the spy genre, here's a mix of espionage RPG and erotic, a dream game for me, damn! After a pleasant first impression, it hurts to see that, apparently the project is dying

 

[Ragnar]

...

Patreon is not a shop, the game is free to play.

 

[giruru]

Except that what people are moaning about is that we patrons of Crush DO pay for effort!

Somehow, that offends them mightily - enough so that they will get on this thread and repeat what each other is saying, and each expresses shock... SHOCK! that those who've followed the process continue to support it.

Yeah, because paying for effort is a waste of money. It's your money and all and nobody can tell you what to do with it, though.

 

[DbatRT]

"and also did preliminary work on the new improved Bangkok! "

Taken DIRECTLY from patreon. He's just straight up lying now, is that it ? "New", really ? I literally laughed out loud.
Crush, when you say "new", that imply that there was something there before. There's no "new" bangkok cause you never made bangkok. And so long as it isnt implemented in a build that is not "dev only" it still doesnt exist.

I can't believe he's just straight up lying now. Getting more disappointed with each update/log.

It exists in his head, he understands the main idea, and the possible limitations of the engine, by the way, I also encountered this problem, although I took a different mechanics as a basis, but all this is theory, in practice there will be much more problems, this always happens, however, in practice development is faster, he just needs to start.

this game is very challenging, twine engine with 1500 passages and 2000 links, objects, variables (7,2MB html file) insane numbers, very difficult to grow

That's why you should not make such an ambitious project on a ready-made engine, in the end it limits you, and the cost of expanding it is colossal.

 

[allenjohn]

Patreon is not a shop, the game is free to play.

Doesn't matter. Like I said, I'm not saying the creators that do this kind of thing deserve to get dragged through court or anything, but if you don't think it's unethical to gather monthly donations to support your game's development only to release tiny, massively staggered updates, then I don't know what to tell you. Developers release a very solid proof-of-concept with above average production values or presentation, then proceed to only provide minor updates for months or years while raking in absolutely absurd amounts of money. Newlife, Accidental Woman, and Female Agent all fit this description.

This game has been in development for over 3 years and we still haven't reached Bangkok, the actual location that the main part of the game is supposed to take place in. At the rate it's going, Female Agent probably won't be done for at least another 8 years or so, which would put the development time/budget at about 11-12 years and over $500K, and that's of course making the very generous assumption that the project doesn't just get abandoned before it's done. Does that seem reasonable for a game that's almost entirely text based? It doesn't seem reasonable to me at all.

Is what these developers do illegal? No. Are their Patreon supporters innocent children that have been forced at gunpoint to open their wallets? Of course not. Are these guys primarily profiting off nothing but a pretty pitch/proof-of-concept that will almost certainly never be fully realized? Yeah, they are, and they deserve every bit of hate that gets flung their way for it.

I like porn games, and it doesn't make me happy to log into this site every day just to see a bunch of half-assed demos specifically designed to bait you into dropping 5-10 bucks on temporary access to one single early alpha version of their game. Games with gimped free versions to bait you into paying, games that make so much money that it's more profitable to just not finish the game than it is to finish it, games with Patreon-only features, devs that don't communicate despite making fat stacks every month, and the list goes on. This genre sucks, and the overwhelming majority of games never even get finished. Japanese developers know what they're doing. They make the game, they collect monthly donations through Patreon or Ci-En if they so choose, and then they release the god damn game. One flat fee, pay it to own the game forever. The Patreon model sucks and benefits nobody but the developers. Every negative thing I say is said out of love for H games. I want them to be great, I want big budget titles made by real studios that blow everything we have right now out of the water, but that's never gonna happen when the best way to be a successful H-game developer is to never actually finish your game and just blue-ball people until the well runs dry.

 

[asdfasdf12341234ACSACA]

That's why you should not make such an ambitious project on a ready-made engine, in the end it limits you, and the cost of expanding it is colossal.

Twine does have a ton of limitations, but the engine is very much not the limitation for this project. If it needed to do something in real time, something interactive in real time (like a generic "shoot (click) the targets as they appear!) then yes, but "going from A to either B, C, or D while setting up some variables and checking some object properties" is not that limited in Twine.

 

[memoefe]

Shedule postponed indefenetly. Every month we have walls painted another color. Sometimes you ask about second floor, but your contracor says that he used blue color for the walls and now he understands that the walls must be yellow and until then he won't do nothing. And you remind him that he already repainted the walls quite a few times. But contractor stubbornly continue to recolor the walls. When you turn around to leave he stops you. Money, he says, now. Surpised you look at him for a moment then ask - but you did nothing for almost a year! I recolored the walls - he answers proudly.

LMAO best analogy

 

[root]

in the end it limits you, and the cost of expanding it is colossal.

Technical debt

 

[Interracial UglyB NTR Fan]

>$4,851
>4 months
>Attached is a minor update with some bug fixes and small QOL improvements.
is this for real ?

welcome, you must be new here, set a reminder for 5 years there might be some decent updates in that time

 

[ajsimps]

His sycophant patrons truly deserve him.

I guess there's a reason why NTR is so popular - people are just gluttons for pain and disappointment.

 

[Orlu]

Hell ... I played it just 2 days ago and I really liked this game. I was full of joy and enthusiasm! Until it turned out that the game is in a half-dead state.

If it's half dead, the other half is in a coma.

This game has been in development for over 3 years and we still haven't reached Bangkok, the actual location that the main part of the game is supposed to take place in. At the rate it's going, Female Agent probably won't be done for at least another 8 years or so

Going by the changelogs in the OP, there doesn't seem to have been an all-new scene in over a year. Unless anyone cares to correct me on that?

 

[DbatRT]

Twine does have a ton of limitations, but the engine is very much not the limitation for this project. If it needed to do something in real time, something interactive in real time (like a generic "shoot (click) the targets as they appear!) then yes, but "going from A to either B, C, or D while setting up some variables and checking some object properties" is not that limited in Twine.

As far as I remember, a lot of different systems, mechanics, and a sex engine with a generator are being developed now, which is not what Twine can give, and this is what It will probably limit.

You know, it's not so easy to implement in pure JS, let alone implement it in the framework of the engine...

Technical debt

This is true in all cases, but Twine is simply not designed for large and huge projects that also deviate from the concepts it provides. Anyway, that's what I see.

 

[Faceless0ne]

While I like the setting and the idea...the lack of content for a HTML-Story 3 years in development is making me sad...

 

[Odin's Eye]

This guy is essentially that author who wrote some really great first few chapters but hasn't written anything in over a decade because he is still world building and just hasn't got all the plots, ideas and concepts set up yet. But just wait! As soon as he finished the world's history and it's 26 religions, and 15 languages, he'll be back on what the main characters are going to do after they've done the morning shit that the preview chapters finished on.

Essentially, he doesn't believe in himself to do anything more. So there's always something else that needs tweaking before he can make Bangkok.