Others Going Deeper [Beta 2.1] [NRFB Games]

[JuanokuG4]

i wanna get good but by god for a first time through it feels like the entire game is just impending doom.
so far the only option i've gotten to decrease P. Corruption is the dream sequences, but those do like. 2 P.C. into 8 T.C. and i'm gaining up to 15 per floor. because some monsters or traps are just insanely tough for no reason, and take forever unless all three girls go to that room. I also have to admit that i'm at a tad of a loss as to how to find H content, but so far the story, characters and general writing is pretty good and despite my incompetence with the mechanics it is pretty fun, so i'm holding on. Really fun game, just maybe some indicator as to how to increase longevity to make the floors not feel like a ticking time bomb- (-as much, this is a metroidvania, so loss is inevitable at the start, but with how much time investment the runs have, some way to know how to keep it going would be appreciated)

 

[Rosen King]

this is a metroidvania

...I'm used to people getting the genre name wrong, but this is the first time I've seen someone mix it up with Metroidvania. The proper term is rogue-lite (not to be confused with Roguelike, which is a gameplay genre rather than a progression system), assuming you're referring to games with semi-permadeath that let you start over stronger than before. Metroidvania refers to games where you explore a map that has lots of obstacles to progression which you can get past later once you find certain upgrades elsewhere on the map.

Anyway, if you unlocked Coraline's quests on your first run I'd say you're doing pretty well. My main piece of advice is to always get the skill that causes you to remove temporary corruption when you get Well-Rested (I think it was called Purity?), and always rest as soon as your Well-Rested buff expires even if you don't have that skill. If you've memorized the scroll, you can teach it to Raine and Lucette right away, and a quick tweak to Elli's Ideals stat will let her learn it as well. Once you get it to level 3, you can also learn the skill that prevents your knights from masturbating, which is the most obnoxious status effect in the game because it guarantees a corruption break unless you can pull one of your other knights off of whatever they're doing. As long as you let your knights rest as often as they can, you shouldn't have to worry nearly as much about the compounding effects of high damage and corruption, and can get pretty far without ever having a corruption break. This makes permanent corruption a much smaller issue that you don't have to worry about finding a cure for.

 

[RagueltheUFO]

Also, Ellie is the only knight that doesn't lose stamina after losing well-rested, so you can still have her explore without the exhaustion going up.

 

[Eurocorp]

So what curses are actually good to empower, or are there any that are relatively harmless from a progression standpoint?

 

[JuanokuG4]

...I'm used to people getting the genre name wrong, but this is the first time I've seen someone mix it up with Metroidvania. The proper term is rogue-lite (not to be confused with Roguelike, which is a gameplay genre rather than a progression system), assuming you're referring to games with semi-permadeath that let you start over stronger than before. Metroidvania refers to games where you explore a map that has lots of obstacles to progression which you can get past later once you find certain upgrades elsewhere on the map.

Anyway, if you unlocked Coraline's quests on your first run I'd say you're doing pretty well. My main piece of advice is to always get the skill that causes you to remove temporary corruption when you get Well-Rested (I think it was called Purity?), and always rest as soon as your Well-Rested buff expires even if you don't have that skill. If you've memorized the scroll, you can teach it to Raine and Lucette right away, and a quick tweak to Elli's Ideals stat will let her learn it as well. Once you get it to level 3, you can also learn the skill that prevents your knights from masturbating, which is the most obnoxious status effect in the game because it guarantees a corruption break unless you can pull one of your other knights off of whatever they're doing. As long as you let your knights rest as often as they can, you shouldn't have to worry nearly as much about the compounding effects of high damage and corruption, and can get pretty far without ever having a corruption break. This makes permanent corruption a much smaller issue that you don't have to worry about finding a cure for.

OH GOD I FUCKED UP I MEANT ROGUE LIKE

 

[RagueltheUFO]

Most curses are meant to be bad. The recent one where the knight skips over the trap is a double edge sword because on one hand, it nullifies the one time traps in the room. On the other hand, if the knight returns to that room or another knight enters, they will get hit by it. It's been helpful when scouting rooms and if Lucelle has it, she can disarm it rather quickly.

Flirting isn't a bad curse until it synergizes with other lust themed curses and then it becomes an issue (but not a lot).

Sloth is annoying but rather harmless. You just have to remember to do an extra click after they get well-rested.

Pride is easy to avoid by proxy of "Only when the knight leaves the room do they get penalized" versus Vainglory where if they fail to defeat the enemy and someone else does then they get penalized until they kill the next enemy (which becomes a problem if Lucelle has it because she can't kill).

Anonymity can work to your advantage especially if Ellie has it sense turning the room dark also means she gets stealth bonus.

Wrath on Raine is a double edge sword but sense she does the most damage and should be the one killing the most monsters, it shouldn't actually hurt you that much unless there's no enemies and a lot of traps and you just happen to see her fall into rage and chase after the other knights...

I always hate how Ellie somehow manages to get Scatterbrain and its a bad curse because god forbid it takes longer to disarm a trap ;v; I also hate Envy because of how it still manages to trigger even when the knight with it is in the same room as another person (you both got it, why are they getting penalized?)

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

So what curses are actually good to empower, or are there any that are relatively harmless from a progression standpoint?

That... depends on your progression.

Curses are corruption wave soaking pads, with side effects that you are meant to circumvent. The only catch is, this is roguelite, and your ability to mitigate stuff will be different on each run. For example, if you have immunity to shaken, Paranoia and Craven are way less harmful.

Generally, curses that deal corruption damage seem to be defeating their purpose, and are to be renounced ASAP. Gluttony and weaknesses of anything are in that category.

Personally, I find non-synergizing lust curses to be very manageable. Rope bunny, sadism, sweet dreams, easily suggestible, exhibitionism, idle hands. Just dont add curses like pheromones or voyeurism into the mix.

Pride, envy, suggestible and unremarkable are also pretty mild.

 

[merikanthus]

I just started a new game with the bugfix mod loaded, and for some reason, during the tutorial, I can't seem to advance to the next turn. Pressing Spacebar also does nothing. Any help would be appreciated.

This happened right after the tutorial note regarding events in the left sidebar. I did also have Raine use her spin move skill before this.

EDIT: Started a new game, made sure not to have Reine use her skill, and the tutorial progressed like normal.

 

[NRFB]

I just started a new game with the bugfix mod loaded, and for some reason, during the tutorial, I can't seem to advance to the next turn. Pressing Spacebar also does nothing. Any help would be appreciated.

This happened right after the tutorial note regarding events in the left sidebar. I did also have Raine use her spin move skill before this.

I'll have to look at what would cause this, but it's not surprising at all. The tutorial scripting is very hard coded and brittle, to the point where it has basically become a tradition that the last thing I do before an update is check what random thing broke it, because it always ends up broken by SOMETHING. I'm pretty sure there are still a couple of different ways you can break it just by doing inputs the game doesn't expect, though at least an actual new player is very unlikely to know how to do so.

Speaking of updates, I've talked about this a little in the game discord but it's uhhhh I'm still not sure when exactly the next update is happening? My health is still not in the best place, and while steps are being taken to try and fix that and work is being done on the game when I'm able, both are more slow going than I or anyone else wants.

 

[Rosen King]

Speaking of updates, I've talked about this a little in the game discord but it's uhhhh I'm still not sure when exactly the next update is happening? My health is still not in the best place, and while steps are being taken to try and fix that and work is being done on the game when I'm able, both are more slow going than I or anyone else wants.

I'd been meaning to ask about that, since I noticed there was still nothing being posted to the Twitter or Patreon. (Yeah, I'm still checking.) Does the fact that "steps are being taken" mean that you've figured out what the problem is?

 

[NRFB]

Does the fact that "steps are being taken" mean that you've figured out what the problem is?

That would be nice, wouldn't it?

Right now I have a specialist appointment for medication consultation stuff on monday, as well as a sleep study scheduled for... February 20th. I'm not actually sure whether the sleep study will matter or not though? I don't snore, which I guess doesn't NECESSARILY rule out sleep apnea. I have also been trying to use those nose strip things and I can't really tell if using them can be correlated with good rolls on my "slightly better day" RNG or not.

But I've been going to appointments and stuff and talking to people. Attempts are being made to do what you're supposed to do when you're struggling, and I have to keep telling myself that so I don't go crazy with anxiety when it isn't getting fixed as fast as I want.

 

[Rosen King]

Right now I have a specialist appointment for medication consultation stuff on monday, as well as a sleep study scheduled for... February 20th. I'm not actually sure whether the sleep study will matter or not though? I don't snore, which I guess doesn't NECESSARILY rule out sleep apnea. I have also been trying to use those nose strip things and I can't really tell if using them can be correlated with good rolls on my "slightly better day" RNG or not.

My sleep apnea originates in my throat, so the nose strips are only gonna help with certain types anyway. Have you done a home sleep study yet? It's more prone to user error and probably less accurate (there's no electrodes to stick on your head), but it might be a lot quicker than waiting for an appointment at the sleep place. Though I guess it wouldn't save that much time at this point, and you'd still need to do the actual study even if it comes up negative.

 

[NRFB]

Have you done a home sleep study yet?

Insurance

 

[Ignorable Idiot]

i wanna get good but by god for a first time through it feels like the entire game is just impending doom.
so far the only option i've gotten to decrease P. Corruption is the dream sequences, but those do like. 2 P.C. into 8 T.C. and i'm gaining up to 15 per floor. because some monsters or traps are just insanely tough for no reason, and take forever unless all three girls go to that room.

Been a few patches since I've played, but unlike most procedural generated floorplan games I've played where returning to a 0 negative effects and racking up level ups is possible, this game is a journey to an acheivable end. Now, not knowing where that end is and not knowing whether I was on pace to finish or not was an issue. So I guess maybe it'd be nice to have a "floors until completion" thing as a tracker? Like, every now and again when communicating with Witch or some other event, and then being able to always see it in NG+ thing? Again might have been implemented already, been a while

 

[RedAce1942]

Insurance

Hey man, just wanted to chip in and say that whatever happens, you'll get out on top(no pun intended). Take your time, take care of your mental health, been through that and i never wish for something like that to happen to a soul. You need your time and your rest

 

[NRFB]

the actual study

went GREAT, by the way...

Spoiler

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In any case, it was at least enough to say no to sleep apnea which is... good? I mean it's better to not have it than to have it, although it does leave the question of "why tired???" in a rather nebulous place. I'm not actually sure what the next steps are at this point as far as solving things other than like... Try to improve sleep habits and whatnot.

That said, I have implemented

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to

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. An update is technically possible whenever, the problem is just properly writing scenes and game content... Which is supposed to be the point of being in beta...

 

[Rosen King]

went GREAT, by the way...

Spoiler

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In any case, it was at least enough to say no to sleep apnea which is... good? I mean it's better to not have it than to have it, although it does leave the question of "why tired???" in a rather nebulous place. I'm not actually sure what the next steps are at this point as far as solving things other than like... Try to improve sleep habits and whatnot.

So wait, do those results mean that you have something else affecting your sleep, or did you just have a horrible time trying to sleep at the place, but still got enough info to say nothing was blocking your airways? In any case, it's too bad the whole problem *wasn't* sleep apnea, since I've heard that CPAP machines really are basically a miracle cure, as long as you don't have one of like five issues that prevent me from using one. (Turns out that breathing tics from Tourette Syndrome do *not* play nice with machines programmed to force air down your throat whenever you breathe weird.)

That said, I have implemented

You must be registered to see the links

to

You must be registered to see the links

. An update is technically possible whenever, the problem is just properly writing scenes and game content... Which is supposed to be the point of being in beta...

Monster descriptions! I always thought it was weird how that's been absent in a game that's canonically about a nerd writing info about the monsters in his book. Hopefully we get some lore about how some of them fit into the world, too. I remember you mentioned something about how werefolk don't actually originate from the dungeon, and was curious if there would be more to that.

 

[NRFB]

So wait, do those results mean that you have something else affecting your sleep, or did you just have a horrible time trying to sleep at the place, but still got enough info to say nothing was blocking your airways?

The latter, though the former is still TECHNICALLY possible. The only diagnosis that could be given from the study was "other insomnia disorder" which is meant to indicate that the cause is unspecified and not due to a known physiological condition.

 

[Rosen King]

Speaking of lore, I just had two interesting thoughts about how the particular rituals of the Syra and Melos religions might impact the game. (Yes, I'm a weirdo who thinks about the religious traditions in a sex game.) First, I was thinking about how the knights seem to be much more prone to sleeping with each other than with the Inquisitor, and particularly that one line where the Inquisitor wonders if being left out of their threesome is "a Syra thing". What if it *is* a Syra thing? There's a saying that "your body is a temple", and that seems like the kind of thing that followers of Syra might take literally. What if enjoying each other's bodies is a way of giving thanks to Syra for her gifts? This would particularly explain Lucette, who seems like she could be prudish but clearly isn't. Perhaps she's eager to join the other knights with the excuse of it being a form of worship, and only hesitates to be intimate with the Inquisitor because she wants to respect your own religion and doesn't want to pressure you into "worshipping at Syra's temple". Meanwhile, Elli's the type to shake what her goddess gave her, and might even joke about how she's trying to convert you.

But then that got me thinking about what kind of down-to-earth rituals of worship Melos followers might have, and... what about gardening? Granted, this would involve retconning some earlier scenes to include it, but I was thinking it would be interesting if the Inquisitor actually carried a special type of potted plant with them as a sort of mini-shrine that doubles as a zen hobby. It would be a Melosian tradition to care for this type of plant in its infancy, but then return it to nature once it gets too big for its pot - which is exactly what happens shortly after the Inquisitor arrives at camp. The plant would be planted on the outskirts of the camp, with the Inquisitor internally noting that they're unsure if being so close to the dungeon could "corrupt" it somehow, but tradition dictates that it be left to grow naturally in its new environment. And its proximity to the knights' camp could cause it to become influenced by Syra's power just as well... (Bonus: There could be a scene/subplot where one of the knights, probably Lucette, has been secretly sneaking out to take care of the plant because they don't really understand Melosian tradition but do know that it's something important to you.)

The plant could make an interesting in-universe excuse for some sort of upgrade system, possibly even the New Game+ system already in the game. Perhaps its exposure to the power of all three goddesses has caused it to transcend time, and its tendency to grow healthier when its caretaker gains knowledge (i.e. KP) is why it became a traditional plant for Melos followers to carry with them.

 

[NRFB]

What if enjoying each other's bodies is a way of giving thanks to Syra for her gifts?

This is actually more or less canon-ish. It always has been how I've thought of it to help maintain a relatively light tone where the girls are not particularly bothered by sex stuff happening to and around them. Something something "I know my body is still in Syra's hands so it's okay" or something to that effect.
It's also often implied if not outright stated that the knight's academy is/was casual sex central, which also makes sense when you think about it. A bunch of young adults going to basically college except everyone is extremely physically gifted and they're there to learn how to be even more so? Yeah.

The plant would be planted on the outskirts of the camp

I do have the internals set up to easily add more locations for visiting/activities/scenes in camp, I just haven't ever actually used it since most of my ideas on the subject have just been vague. Some ideas do certainly exist though.