Ren'Py Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[drdredit]

I think I messed up the spoiler - don't use it often. In any case -

I like the Sarah character - that's why I went on the expedition and why I played the VR and D&D - there is literally no other way to interact with her yet that I know of. And no, I do not like "games of chance" that give you no opportunity to win without backing up and restarting over and over. You may not call it a grind - but that's what it is to me. It is just pointless wash, rinse repeat until you get what you want. And I like Annie - and played the romance route but so far all I got was thrown in jail - and told to dance.

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If you you know how to "win in the VR" -I would sure love a hint. My MC gets slaughtered in about 3 rounds every time.

Same with the pool game - in my play through the pool game didn't seem like a game of chance - Annie hit every shot, I had to rollback and play again, but I hit every shot -then she proclaims "Ha, I won - now do your stupid dance..."

 

[Osamabeenfappin]

Really, what about Severus Snape or Anakin Skywalker? They're pretty misunderstood characters. Would you say how they're written is shitty?

Lol more like Eric from Big Brother.

 

[Akamari]

That "major feature" is my major downside : too many variations, I don't like to play dozens of times the same game with little differences. Yet I like when there are multiple routes with story impacting choices.

Then don't. It's not the intent of the game to play it dozens of time. Play your character and make your meaningful choices. You are not forced to replay. If you find you want more, choose another character and play it differently. And so on.

I never understood "too many variations" complaint. How can there be too many? The more variations there are, the more you can play your character the way you want. The more of an impact you can have on your character's story. An ideal game would have thousands of variations where pretty much the player's imagination is the limit...

 

[lonelygale]

how does this game have 1200 pages worth of comments but only 50 reviews?

 

[dolfe67]

Then don't. It's not the intent of the game to play it dozens of time. Play your character and make your meaningful choices. You are not forced to replay. If you find you want more, choose another character and play it differently. And so on.

I never understood "too many variations" complaint. How can there be too many? The more variations there are, the more you can play your character the way you want. The more of an impact you can have on your character's story. An ideal game would have thousands of variations where pretty much the player's imagination is the limit...

I mean it's not so much the fact that there is too many variations but rather how you get them : talking to certain characters at certain times and/or ignoring some content like missions. But like I said I'm not a fan of sandbox games, so there is that

 

[Akamari]

I think I messed up the spoiler - don't use it often. In any case -

I like the Sarah character - that's why I went on the expedition and why I played the VR and D&D - there is literally no other way to interact with her yet that I know of. And no, I do not like "games of chance" that give you no opportunity to win without backing up and restarting over and over. You may not call it a grind - but that's what it is to me. It is just pointless wash, rinse repeat until you get what you want.

OK, the point of Sarah's games is to play with her. You are effectively winning by just playing (unless you do some things she doesn't like in CoC). You don't need to actually win those games. So if luck is not favouring you, no problem. There's no need to get frustrated. If you lose the VR game twice, you still get to progress to the next one. So no grind. If your character dies in CoC, no problem, you can just roll a new one in the next session. Point is she'll be happy you played with her. So again - no grind.

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Same with the pool game - in my play through the pool game didn't seem like a game of chance - Annie hit every shot, I had to rollback and play again, but I hit every shot -then she proclaims "Ha, I won - now do your stupid dance..."

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You simply got unlucky. If you tried again, you'd likely win. And IMO dancing naked and singing a rude song for her is funny. So it's not that bad to lose.

 

[ename144]

Then don't. It's not the intent of the game to play it dozens of time. Play your character and make your meaningful choices. You are not forced to replay. If you find you want more, choose another character and play it differently. And so on.

I never understood "too many variations" complaint. How can there be too many? The more variations there are, the more you can play your character the way you want. The more of an impact you can have on your character's story. An ideal game would have thousands of variations where pretty much the player's imagination is the limit...

I'm not sure I can agree with this. Yes, you can just sit down and play through the game once, but the result will be, in my experience, extremely unsatisfying if you're looking for a structured story. The game does a very poor job of connecting our actions to the variations we get. As a result, a lot of what happens feels extremely random. Yes, some of the biggest choices have some clear consequences: deciding to blackmail Sarah, or fraternizing with Annie after being told repeatedly that you'd better not be caught doing that. But the vast majority of the choices are smaller, and they have a very circuitous route to their consequences.

To really get a sense of how our actions are directing events, we need to either play the game through multiple times or look "behind the scenes" at the underlying code. Likewise, trying to advance a particular task (repairing the station, for example) often boils down to a depth-first search of every available option. That's what can lead to the sense of grind, since a player winds up doing a whole bunch of things they didn't enjoy in the hopes of finding the one that they do.

That at least was my impression back in Chapter 3, and it does not sound like it has changed since then. The game seems to be embracing and expanding on the sandbox elements - which is fine for those that enjoy them, but tough on those who were hoping for the intriguing story elements to take center stage.

IMHO, obviously.

 

[Akamari]

I'm not sure I can agree with this. Yes, you can just sit down and play through the game once, but the result will be, in my experience, extremely unsatisfying if you're looking for a structured story. The game does a very poor job of connecting our actions to the variations we get. As a result, a lot of what happens feels extremely random. Yes, some of the biggest choices have some clear consequences: deciding to blackmail Sarah, or fraternizing with Annie after being told repeatedly that you'd better not be caught doing that. But the vast majority of the choices are smaller, and they have a very circuitous route to their consequences.

To really get a sense of how our actions are directing events, we need to either play the game through multiple times or look "behind the scenes" at the underlying code. Likewise, trying to advance a particular task (repairing the station, for example) often boils down to a depth-first search of every available option. That's what can lead to the since of grind, since a player winds up doing a whole bunch of things they didn't enjoy in the hopes of finding the one that they do.

That at least was my impression back in Chapter 3, and it does not sound like it has changed since then. The game seems to be embracing and expanding on the sandbox elements - which is fine for those that enjoy them, but tough on those who were hoping for the intriguing story elements to take center stage.

IMHO, obviously.

Well, ironically, as much as I enjoy freedom of choice, it wouldn't do it for me if I didn't like how well the story elements connect. I don't think any of the scene ever felt random to me. The story is always evolving, regardless of the direction you take. There is always a cause and an effect. You don't get stuck in a loop of - here's a part of the game you don't enjoy that you need to complete to progress to the next one - that many "sandbox" games tend to have. I don't like the term sandbox here, because open world elements don't constitute a sandbox. What you choose to do, where you choose to go, who you interact with... those are all choices that move the story and substories forward.

Now with great choice, comes a great responsibility, so to speak. So, yes, the player, in theory can make a series decisions that can be against his best interest storywise. This game heavily relies on the player paying close attention. It has its difficulty in that sense.

The story, as a whole is, I'd argue, is very well structured. Chapter One is more focused storywise. You get introductions to the main characters and to the setting before it moves to a dramatic event with a cascading series of malfunctions and becomes very story-driven at that point. Chapter Two, goes back to the introductory phase. To set the stage that is centerpoint of the game. Chapters Two, Three and Four are what I would call quiet before the storm. These are chapters of exploration, investigation and getting to know the characters. Chapters that build up the mystery. The center story goes into background. I don't know what will happen next, but I'll bet that with stage set, the story will rapidly gain momentum.

I think a mistake a lot of players make is they don't try to see a big picture. They want payoff now, and when they don't get it they're unhappy. I bet that if you played the complete game, you would speak differently. At the current stage of the game there are far more questions than answers. And rightly so. I think those who don't have the patience for the journey should wait until until the game reaches its destination. Then I believe, a single playthrough tailored to player's choices will truly shine.

This game is a one of a kind in what it is attempting to accomplish.

 

[Steve Carter]

I was impressed by the Porky's reference. Anyone else get Buela Balbricker'd?

 

[Guyin Cognito]

That "major feature" is my major downside : too many variations, I don't like to play dozens of times the same game with little differences. Yet I like when there are multiple routes with story impacting choices. Furthermore, the passing time is really stressful, you can't talk to all characters or visit all the places. I'm not keen on the investigation either. But I'm not a fan of sandboxes.

I've seen people praise the game on some discords (not a lot though) but to me it's nothing to write home about. It's not bad but not that good either imo. Maybe my brain is not big enough to get all the subtleties the game has to offer. The animations are plenty and lengthy but didn't impress me, and without dialogues it feels quite weird

This is only in a spoiler because it's another one of my characteristically long wordy posts.
Seriously, this may be one of the longest posts I've ever written. Sorry not sorry.
The TL;DR is: the game's design is very intentional and won't appeal equally to everyone, it is what it is.

Spoiler: Verbose version: you have been warned...

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[okrayo]

Boy, this game is a whole lot of nothing! Or maybe I am just spoiled by better games like Summertime Saga, Being a DIK, Mifly City, Holiday Island, Where The Heart Is, and Treasure of Nadia.

 

[okrayo]

Many folks on this board take any criticism of the game as if we are calling your baby ugly.

Well I am firmly in the camp that feels the game has gone off the rails.... much too slow, much too grindy. I don't mind slow builds and even not a lot of lewd scenes - but I want there to be some payoff for the grind. My MC made all the pools shots and still loses. He gets slaughtered in VR without even a chance. He gets killed in the D&D game, he gets dissed by just about everyone - and that is playing the nice guy romance routes. The D&D game is the essences of grind - wander around and get killed randomly, rewind, reset, and get killed again. Wasted animation on dice rolling - oh you lost again! The pool mechanics also obviously took a ton of time and programming skill but the juice is not worth the squeeze. Yup I've seen And yes, I've done the two field trips in different run throughs, but I am not impressed, From my perspective it is nearly impossible to "play your gut" and have anything good happen. And for me, the Chris domme thing is just plain boring, way too long, way too slow, not even a little erotic - so no, not well accepted. I agree with the comment that there is very little about most of the choices to suggest you are either opening a route or closing a route. I don't enjoy and will pass for a while.

Just my $0.02 - spend it wisely.

DrD

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct!

 

[XaGnard]

OK, the point of Sarah's games is to play with her. You are effectively winning by just playing (unless you do some things she doesn't like in CoC). You don't need to actually win those games. So if luck is not favouring you, no problem. There's no need to get frustrated. If you lose the VR game twice, you still get to progress to the next one. So no grind. If your character dies in CoC, no problem, you can just roll a new one in the next session. Point is she'll be happy you played with her. So again - no grind.

Whether you think it should be that way or not, for me, and maybe some others, these purely random defeats were frustrating. I also don't see the point of including this path if it is not linked to a corresponding complexity in the player's decision.

Imagine a story in which the MC was offered a training session before this fight, which he could have refused and thus he would not have been prepared. Ideally, the MC would have learned in the training how to read his opponent, so that the player could select the correct responce and win the fight by "skill". That is gameplay. Simply selecting a path at random is pointless and simply frustrating.

 

[rick87]

dunno if already reported, in one of my playthroughs at the start of the free roam section i first went and modified the shower then watched the scene with Markus and went for the fridge, at that point it was impossible to access the toolbox cause the image of the hole in the shower was instead showed. after that i guess the save was completely corrupted cause i kept on getting weird renders being showed randomly of previous scenes and finally even being brought back to ch 2 content.

apart from those strange bugs, this is the first chapter of this game where i really didn't enjoy the gameplay, i usually like RPG-ish games where you're supposed to roam around and solve puzzles or find stuff, those games that i like tho (EON for example) have a pretty good built-in guide to help you if you're getting stuck unable to guess what to do to catch all the scenes that you missed.
my first playthrough of ch4 lasted less than 15 mins, couldn't get any of the content, then i had to go back and figure out from the script which variables i was missing in each of the paths of my saves. i also agree with some of the other comments in this thread, both the pool and the VR games become way too grindy if you want to win.
i'm sorry to drop this game cause i was really enjoying the story, just like it happened with Deluca family, there too i couldn't stand the new gameplay, in that case though the developer has already let know that a VN version of the game will be be made available in the future, i hope this game too will have eventually one.

 

[Akamari]

Whether you think it should be that way or not, for me, and maybe some others, these purely random defeats were frustrating. I also don't see the point of including this path if it is not linked to a corresponding complexity in the player's decision.

Imagine a story in which the MC was offered a training session before this fight, which he could have refused and thus he would not have been prepared. Ideally, the MC would have learned in the training how to read his opponent, so that the player could select the correct responce and win the fight by "skill". That is gameplay. Simply selecting a path at random is pointless and simply frustrating.

Not think, I know that for a fact. You don't need to win these. If I didn't like games of chance, which I do, I wouldn't bother trying to win. You're making it frustrating for yourself when it doesn't need to be. It's your own fault.

You can sort of learn to read the opponent in the VR, if you notice that the animated combat stance of the orc is not always the same. So "skill" can play a factor, albeit small. There is of course still luck involved. And as the player progresses throughout the VR campaign he will unlock new skills, so... do you see where I'm going with this? Do you play roleplaying games? Because when you play a roleplaying game with dice rolls, your character doesn't have the "skills" at Level 1.

If there was a "I win" button it'd be dreadfully boring. That's not gameplay.

I find it curious that so many people who play adult games have aversion to all kinds of gameplay. Desired difficulty: none. They should play read VNs that don't have any.

 

[Akamari]

dunno if already reported, in one of my playthroughs at the start of the free roam section i first went and modified the shower then watched the scene with Markus and went for the fridge, at that point it was impossible to access the toolbox cause the image of the hole in the shower was instead showed. after that i guess the save was completely corrupted cause i kept on getting weird renders being showed randomly of previous scenes and finally even being brought back to ch 2 content.

I'll have a look later and pass it on. Thanks.

 

[SecretSal]

I have heard people raving about how great the Grand Theft Auto series is for YEARS, and you know what I've NEVER heard anyone talk about? The plot. To this day, I have no idea whatsoever what those games are about, except that they're mainstream games where you can do stuff like kill people and have sex with hookers. Point being, that's how unusual it is for games to have both actual gameplay and adult content.

Thing is, that's down to the series having the best ecosystem design in gaming, with many different behavioral routines interacting to form unpredictable and entertaining outcomes to player decisions. That way, the emergent design of the game becomes a much more personal experience - the stories it generates are your own. In comparison, the plot is a predetermined linear route from start to finish, with a handful of choices along the way.

But even though the story has to almost 'get out of the way' for the player to really have fun, there's still plenty of discussion about the plot from Vice City onwards. A lot of it has even been enshrined in meme culture - "Ah shit, here we go again..." "Hey cousin! Let's go bowling." "All we had to do was follow the damn train, CJ!" San Andreas in particular has standout performances from Sam Jackson and James Woods, they sold the hell out of their characters. Plus, the radio shows alone from the earlier titles have more great writing than you'll find in most full games.

---

As for H5 itself, it's hugely impressive what Notty is doing. More power to her, and I hope she's able to finish the game the way she's visualised it. I've also discovered that it's probably not a game for me, and that's perfectly fine. Time-gating and FOMO aren't things I typically enjoy in my games. I don't mind being locked out of paths based on decisions in games like Dark Souls, where the intrinsic gameplay loop of improving myself as a player and character is rewarding on its own. But in more pure exploratory games like this one, I can feel it pinch a little sharper.

I think that's probably aggravated by the episodic nature as well. Even in games where I've done multiple playthroughs, it's almost always start-to-finish as one playthrough, then do another run with different choices and paths. Can't do that with episodic releases, you'd have to mentally separate one run as your 'canon playthrough' and the others as experimental variations, and that's just not how I like to play.

Hopefully, the workload stays manageable. Like someone had mentioned, the problem with having so many divergent paths is that the work required increases all the time if new choices continue to be added. I'm guessing at some point the game would have to soft-lock you into a path and give you only minor choices from then on (or find a way to mix-and-match aspects of different playthroughs), otherwise each subsequent update would either be even more time-consuming to produce, or spend less time with each path.

Anyway, whenever the game's done, will definitely be interested in giving it a shot from scratch. I know that's probably years from now, but I should have that long. I hope.

 

[oliverste123]

is it even possible to get the pantie deal? If it is it's wayyy to rare

 

[Akamari]

is it even possible to get the pantie deal? If it is it's wayyy to rare

Theoretically, yes. But, I think the best approach is not to try to get this one and let it appear naturally in future chapters. More sessions played, the more likely it is to have its prerequisites met.

 

[oliverste123]

Theoretically, yes. But, I think the best approach is not to try to get this one and let it appear naturally in future chapters. More sessions played, the more likely it is to have its prerequisites met.

Yeah fair enough I was just curious because i've finished my main playthrough and just wanted to see some of the other scenes, still a brilliant chapter release either way