Ren'Py Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[moskyx]

It has been said that the important thing in CoC is just being there to play with her. The outcome of the games are not that important, you maybe get some quirks and kinks of her but that's all in the context of H5. What matters is that you are showing her you want to keep her company even though she's a poor GM.

But obviously those games are part of the player's experience in H5. And god, they can be frustrating and annoying and leave you thinking why am I wasting my nightime slot with Sarah, if there's no 'evident' progress with her and the game itself is not an enjoyable experience due to RGN and her lack of skills. It feels like a chore sometimes and I honestly understand why casual players wants to vent their frustrations with this part of the game. You must be very invested in H5 and Sarah to endure a CoC session without thinking you should never repeat this experience.

At this moment, H5 is not suitable for players who seek 'instant gratification', almost every path is still far away from the most desired outcomes (aka banging the girls you'd like to bang) and all the freeroam exploration can be felt as a filler grind instead of what It actually is (an ambitious world and story building system). People should take this into account before even trying the game out. This is going to be huge once finished, but I always have a hard time to reccommand it to other people as of now

 

[Akamari]

It has been said that the important thing in CoC is just being there to play with her. The outcome of the games are not that important, you maybe get some quirks and kinks of her but that's all in the context of H5. What matters is that you are showing her you want to keep her company even though she's a poor GM.

Why not just stick with that then? There is no real punishment for not winning the CoC minigame. It doesn't hamper progress.

...the game itself is not an enjoyable experience due to RGN...

That's a very subjective opinion. For me it is enjoyable thanks to RNG. I've always enjoyed rolling a dice and I've always played RPGs that have a strong element of luck involved in it. There would be very little gameplay or excitement without it. Y'know what I found least enjoyable in CoC? The final encounter - because there was no RNG in it. It was faked and that was frustrating.

I find it mindboggling when people play a game with dice rolls and then complain about RNG. That's like going swimming and complaining the water is wet.

 

[moskyx]

Why not just stick with that then? There is no real punishment for not winning the CoC minigame. It doesn't hamper progress.


That's a very subjective opinion. For me it is enjoyable thanks to RNG. I've always enjoyed rolling a dice and I've always played RPGs that have a strong element of luck involved in it. There would be very little gameplay or excitement without it. Y'know what I found least enjoyable in CoC? The final encounter - because there was no RNG in it. It was faked and that was frustrating.

I find it mindboggling when people play a game with dice rolls and then complain about RNG. That's like going swimming and complaining the water is wet.

No, the comparison is people going swimming and complaining they couldn't win a 1v1 race because they were forced to wear a red cap and some unknown god had decided blue cap will be the winner. I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I don't think is that hard to understand, really. Most people just want to beat games. If you offer them a minigame, players expect to be able to beat it (reasonably fast). It's not really fun to sit with a character you're interested in, just to be killed after 2 dice rolls before the scene is over, when you don't get anything immediately after in exchange. People want to beat that game too, explore all the options included by the dev, because their only incentive to endure that scene is precisely exploring and beating the game, unless they are some RNG junkies like you who enjoy being killed after 2 bad rolls because 'nice, that's how RNG works'. I know, I know, they can try again, but that can be frustrating and feel pointless after a couple of times. When it all comes down to pure RNG, well, I don't really think there are many people like you playing this kind of lewd games, if they really enjoy RNG systems they'd be playing some h-roulette or whatever. I think people play H5 for its story and not for the RNG, so they don't like it that much when they encounter that kind of content. You like that, but according to comments not many people do.

And I know your next point will be that then people should just choose another route, they are plenty for those who don't like to 'swim'. And I'd say there are plenty of unfinished routes that will leave you almost as frustrated because they lead nowhere at this point of development. That's why people say 'my playthrough this chapter was about 15 minutes long'. Because that's what's happening now if you don't like free-roam and focus on any given route. Some players still like the game or find it interesting enough, so they want to make their experience to last longer, so they try some other routes, and then find other things they don't like it either. And there aren't enough incentives implemented as of yet to change that bad taste, except a vague promise of things getting hotter down the line if you take the hundred of needed steps right. And from slightly frustrating, the game becomes annoying, and people come here and complain. That's how I see it and how I think things will go down from here until a real ending is available.

Tl, Dr: Notty wants to please every kind of player with elements they'd like, but at this point of development the largest group of players can't find what they like (sex scenes) and are prone to bitch about all those other elements they don't like and weren't there for them, but they still find just because they want to play the game a bit more to make the download worthwhile.

 

[Akamari]

No, the comparison is people going swimming and complaining they couldn't win a 1v1 race because they were forced to wear a red cap and some unknown god had decided blue cap will be the winner.

My comparison is complaining about very obvious nature of the given activity. Swimming requires water. Turn-based combat requires an element of randomness.

What do you think should determine a winner in a game with dice? Who can throw fastest? Who can throw farthest? No, the very purpose of a dice is to get a random result. To challenge the lady luck.

Do you think...

There is an orc in the room. He notices you and attacks.
"I fight!"
You automatically kill the orc.
"Yay?"

...would be more fun combat encounter?

People want to beat that game too, explore all the options included by the dev, because their only incentive to endure that scene is precisely exploring and beating the game.

I know, I know, they can try again, but that can be frustrating and feel pointless after a couple of times. When it all comes down to pure RNG, well, I don't really think there are many people like you playing this kind of lewd games, if they really enjoy RNG systems they'd be playing some h-roulette or whatever. I think people play H5 for its story and not for the RNG, so they don't like it that much when they encounter that kind of content. You like that, but according to comments not many people do.

And I know your next point will be that then people should just choose another route, they are plenty for those who don't like to 'swim'. And I'd say there are plenty of unfinished routes that will leave you almost as frustrated because they lead nowhere at this point of development. That's why people say 'my playthrough this chapter was about 15 minutes long'. Because that's what's happening now if you don't like free-roam and focus on any given route. Some players still like the game or find it interesting enough, so they want to make their experience to last longer, so they try some other routes, and then find other things they don't like it either. And there aren't enough incentives implemented as of yet to change that bad taste, except a vague promise of things getting hotter down the line if you take the hundred of needed steps right. And from slightly frustrating, the game becomes annoying, and people come here and complain. That's how I see it and how I think things will go down from here until a real ending is available.

I don't get this "must play everything because I need to beat everything?" mindset, but never mind that. I agree with you those "I want every reward NOW!" people shouldn't play until it's finished.

These in-development playable updates are for people who are interested in the journey not just the destination. For those who can see the bigger picture and think of the potential most of all. Those who don't understand that are not helping.

 

[moskyx]

My comparison is complaining about very obvious nature of the given activity. Swimming requires water. Turn-based combat requires an element of randomness.

What do you think should determine a winner in a game with dice? Who can throw fastest? Who can throw farthest? No, the very purpose of a dice is to get a random result. To challenge the lady luck.

Do you think...

There is an orc in the room. He notices you and attacks.
"I fight!"
You automatically kill the orc.
"Yay?"

...would be more fun combat encounter?


I don't get this "must play everything because I need to beat everything?" mindset, but never mind that. I agree with you those "I want every reward NOW!" people shouldn't play until it's finished.

These in-development playable updates are for people who are interested in the journey not just the destination. For those who can see the bigger picture and think of the potential most of all. Those who don't understand that are not helping.

Yet they have all the right to complain about all the things they didn't like. This is not a 'show your support to the dev' thread anymore, but a 'discuss the game and its shortcomings' one. Those who actually want to 'help' are already in Notty's forum, I assume.

I have nothing against RNG in CoC. I agree is the only way to do it right. I'm just stating that RNG segments aren't fun to everybody because many people out there just want to win everything they play within the game and feel vastly dissapointed when they can't because it's RNG and there's not a magic walkthrough to lead them to the victory. Or, at least, to make it last long enough to not feel they've wasted that timeslot. Add that to all the unfinished paths and all the fetish content and all the non-likeable characters (for them), and the broadest game out there becomes very thin if they have to opt out of all the content they might not like. So they play that content anyay and they complain, of course. It's only natural after downloading a 7GB game that promise a 'play as you want' experience that you can't enjoy properly if you actually play as you want because it's only chapter 4.

My personal 'issue' with CoC (appart from the untranslatable wordplay jokes) is probably Sarah herself. I mean, I'm still thinking this is all an act, she's putting on a show and these games are more like a trial for us to prove we are really interested in her, so interested that we're willing to accept all her foolish ideas. But oh my, if that's the case she's reaaaally good at that and I'm failing miserably. I need a really strong willpower to accept yet another crappy CoC game (crappy not by Dev design but by Sarah's leading). And to think that playing it won't lead to anything lewd till at least (maybe) 2 more chapters... *sighs* That's really hard. Sometimes I really wish to be killed after 2 bad rolls. Not being a fan of rpg in real life probably detracts from my experience too, but it's this or the VR rapey thingy without the rapey thingy, so... yeah, it's really difficult to force myself to play her paths even though I'm still hoping for her final reveal.

 

[NeimadFR]

Yet they have all the right to complain about all the things they didn't like. This is not a 'show your support to the dev' thread anymore, but a 'discuss the game and its shortcomings' one. Those who actually want to 'help' are already in Notty's forum, I assume.

I have nothing against RNG in CoC. I agree is the only way to do it right. I'm just stating that RNG segments aren't fun to everybody because many people out there just want to win everything they play within the game and feel vastly dissapointed when they can't because it's RNG and there's not a magic walkthrough to lead them to the victory. Or, at least, to make it last long enough to not feel they've wasted that timeslot. Add that to all the unfinished paths and all the fetish content and all the non-likeable characters (for them), and the broadest game out there becomes very thin if they have to opt out of all the content they might not like. So they play that content anyay and they complain, of course. It's only natural after downloading a 7GB game that promise a 'play as you want' experience that you can't enjoy properly if you actually play as you want because it's only chapter 4.

My personal 'issue' with CoC (appart from the untranslatable wordplay jokes) is probably Sarah herself. I mean, I'm still thinking this is all an act, she's putting on a show and these games are more like a trial for us to prove we are really interested in her, so interested that we're willing to accept all her foolish ideas. But oh my, if that's the case she's reaaaally good at that and I'm failing miserably. I need a really strong willpower to accept yet another crappy CoC game (crappy not by Dev design but by Sarah's leading). And to think that playing it won't lead to anything lewd till at least (maybe) 2 more chapters... *sighs* That's really hard. Sometimes I really wish to be killed after 2 bad rolls. Not being a fan of rpg in real life probably detracts from my experience too, but it's this or the VR rapey thingy without the rapey thingy, so... yeah, it's really difficult to force myself to play her paths even though I'm still hoping for her final reveal.

Everything you say make me feel that you're forcing yourself to play a game you don't like. Maybe you shoud just drop it, there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Akamari]

Yet they have all the right to complain about all the things they didn't like. This is not a 'show your support to the dev' thread anymore, but a 'discuss the game and its shortcomings' one. Those who actually want to 'help' are already in Notty's forum, I assume.

More of a "thrash the game" thread this year. I suppose you're right. It's not the feedback and discussion thread it used to be. It sorta makes sense without dev presence, unfortunately.

I have nothing against RNG in CoC. I agree is the only way to do it right. I'm just stating that RNG segments aren't fun to everybody because many people out there just want to win everything they play within the game and feel vastly dissapointed when they can't because it's RNG and there's not a magic walkthrough to lead them to the victory. Or, at least, to make it last long enough to not feel they've wasted that timeslot. Add that to all the unfinished paths and all the fetish content and all the non-likeable characters (for them), and the broadest game out there becomes very thin if they have to opt out of all the content they might not like. So they play that content anyay and they complain, of course. It's only natural after downloading a 7GB game that promise a 'play as you want' experience that you can't enjoy properly if you actually play as you want because it's only chapter 4.

Then I don't see the problem. I'd accept your points if playing CoC was necessary but it's not. And the RNG shouldn't come as a surprise. It's a tabletop RPG minigame, so of course there would be RNG. How can anyone expect something else? I think it becomes apparent soon enough that this isn't a simple VN, and most activities have some kind of gameplay element to them. Moreso, it's possible to switch from CoC to VR after the first (and even second I think?) session. I'd think the lack of "Completed" prefix is rather telling that paths are unfinished, no? A single playthrough regardless of choices offers significant playtime I'd argue. Those who claim otherwise either skip or take no time to think about what they read.

My personal 'issue' with CoC (appart from the untranslatable wordplay jokes) is probably Sarah herself. I mean, I'm still thinking this is all an act, she's putting on a show and these games are more like a trial for us to prove we are really interested in her, so interested that we're willing to accept all her foolish ideas. But oh my, if that's the case she's reaaaally good at that and I'm failing miserably. I need a really strong willpower to accept yet another crappy CoC game (crappy not by Dev design but by Sarah's leading). And to think that playing it won't lead to anything lewd till at least (maybe) 2 more chapters... *sighs* That's really hard. Sometimes I really wish to be killed after 2 bad rolls. Not being a fan of rpg in real life probably detracts from my experience too, but it's this or the VR rapey thingy without the rapey thingy, so... yeah, it's really difficult to force myself to play her paths even though I'm still hoping for her final reveal.

Heh, I rather agree with your thoughts on Sarah. I think she's defo playing with us in more ways than one.

Personally, I don't think she's that bad as a GM. She can sometimes go into interesting details (not talking about orcs) and certainly doesn't lack enthusiasm. For a light-hearted play I rather enjoy her silliness. Sometimes that's better than a super serious GM.

 

[moskyx]

Everything you say make me feel that you're forcing yourself to play a game you don't like. Maybe you shoud just drop it, there is nothing wrong with that.

No, please don't get me wrong. I do like the game because I see the project as a whole and even though some parts are not made for my tastes, I still see the insane amount of work behind them and the overall thing is going to be just great if she keeps going like this (and mostly I want to see what the hell is going on in Ophion). I'm just stating why other people don't like it, I find that criticism absolute legit because I understand their standpoint and how they played the game, expecting something else that simply is not there and getting frustrated by the content not designed for them but that they still find anyway while searching for something they hoped they could like. These are not people bashing the dev out with false accusations of milking and so on, these are people who played the game and hoped to like it but just couldn't, and then come here and try to explain why. And of course their comments are bitter and sometimes even illogical, because they just didn't like the game and there's no technical reason for it but just a personal feeling of... wasted time and frustration due to gameplay elements they never like. It's hard to explain that in a way you wouldn't find irrational or even offensive because they'll tend to focus precisely on those elements they absolutely hate and build their comment from there, and then you are going to think why the hell were they even playing to begin with. Of course you're going to think they can't appreciate nor even understand all what you love about H5 and they should just go and stay away (which is what they're going to do anyway). But I do understand them. That's all.

 

[ToxicLemming]

Am I the only one that noticed the blatant Big Brother reference?

 

[I'm Not Thea Lundgren!]

Am I the only one that noticed the blatant Big Brother reference?

I don't know what you mean...

 

[ToxicLemming]

I don't know what you mean...

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[NukaCola]

Damn, Barbarian babe is probably the hotest character in this game

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[Cabin Fever]

Damn, Barbarian babe is probably the hotest character in this game

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She's right up there but I still prefer Jane.

 

[DragonSkull773]

Can someone tell me where the secret hidden cache is in chapter 4? I'm really curious as to what it is.

 

[Akamari]

Can someone tell me where the secret hidden cache is in chapter 4? I'm really curious as to what it is.

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[DragonSkull773]

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Thanks. How do I get to it? It says to get a ladder and a power tool to get to the vent. Where do I find them?

 

[Akamari]

Thanks. How do I get to it? It says to get a ladder and a power tool to get to the vent. Where do I find them?

Mike has the ladder, so go see him at the power plant. You can find the drill in the workshop table.

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[DragonSkull773]

Mike has the ladder, so go see him at the power plant. You can find the drill in the workshop table.

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I got the ladder and I found the drill, but for some reason, it won't let me grab the drill. The MC just keeps saying "Easy access general toolkit. Handy for hitting pipes with but not much else" Am I supposed to do something else first or is this a bug in the game?

 

[Akamari]

I got the ladder and I found the drill, but for some reason, it won't let me grab the drill. The MC just keeps saying "Easy access general toolkit. Handy for hitting pipes with but not much else" Am I supposed to do something else first or is this a bug in the game?

You just to know where it is, so that your character can automatically get it and use when needed. You should now be able to open the vent.

 

[paragan]

I have just finished new content, now i will wait a week and try another route(s) and waifus .

Sometimes it is hard (even for me) to change paradigm - we play games for win (some people even pay for win = cheat/ hack ... but that´s another story). We are hunters and gathers, mighty conquerors we want to beat/ outsmart/ punish enemy (computer, player) - like Conan´s: What is best in life? To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of their women.

This game is different. It is like Swedish table. You pick what you want - chef don´t try (mostly ) to confuse you. So you have freedom. And rewards are different too: piece of information, nice picture or animation, clue, interesting story twist, witty dialogue ... - i think creator rewards our imagination - curiosity (what if ?) more than our ego.

So first things first - one (not so) simple question:
Is it going to be fun ?
Damn Yes, but ... (kill me there is but )

YES

There are (for) me three layers of gameplay:

* detective story
In every paradise is venomous snake - there is whole nest
This one is most tricky one - there are so many motives, hidden agendas, personal character goals that average writer will write 5 book space opera series ... I like that even characters who looks like their motives are clear want to manipulate, use you - they are not passive .... lovely
We are somewhere in the middle of story so hard to say where it will lead (and that´s great).
I ´m not sure how will creator handle all these clues - will we have opportunity to use them, make good/bad/questionable choices and actions and deal (die ? ) with consequences ?

* romancing walker
I love them all - Nottravis has created unique characters. They are like flawed gems - realistic, interesting - i can imagine them as whole people.

* engineer
For me least interesting part - but maybe it will lead to interesting things.

Btw with all those aliens, mens/womens, villains (hot/mysterious/vicious) is this really mission for mundane engineer ? Someone like captain Jack Harkness is man for this work, or not ?

BUT

This is problem of every game (for example Alpha protocol) that is really non-linear (authors don´t kill you when you go two steps another direction) - narrative looks sometimes unfocused. With so many choices and consequences author reacts to your actions and sometimes things have less emotional impact than when your story is straight as arrow.

Second thing is gameplay on a map screen - you do something (not so important) and suddenly there is evening. Maybe this is where realism has gone too far. I had always feeling that i missed something important (did i missed ? - i´m not sure). Maybe something like timer on screen and highlight important meetings will make game more clear.

CONCLUSION
When i see insane amount of effort, love and time that Nottravis invested into this game i can´t say anything bad. It is unique and better than 99% of games on this forum. It can be even better (after some polishing and balancing)

87%

PS: I hope i´m not Thea Lundgren .... you never know ...