Ren'Py Abandoned Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[sabadongelov]

I would encourage everyone to avoid comparing themselves, that's all.

Agreed. When you start having trouble separating fantasy from reality, you should probably lay of the fantasy until you get your shit together.

 

[Skylaroo]

that's because the wt was a simple breakdown of the script.

It's irrelevant because it's not the WT's presentation that I was talking about. It's the logic of the relationship between the options that is convoluted. The WT simply confirmed it.

I respectfully disagree as I feel this game is meant to be played by taking into account that the characters all have their own personality and agenda. It tries to give as close as a real life experience as possible, and this can't be obtained by playing it as a "I need to do X to get Y", but more as a "I want to do X to please or piss off this character". The aim of the game, in the end, is to give every player their own adventure, which explains the number of options that ultimately don't change the big scheme of things.

That has nothing to do with my criticism at all though. Trying to be realistic with the personalities/agenda is not something that means it must be presented in a convoluted way.

For example, to get the boxing invite by Chris, you must pick "Make smalltalk" during her free time. But the way the options are presented it's in the order of "Complain about the crew", "Ask about the mission", "Make smalltalk", "Nothing" in which that if you don't pick "Make smalltalk" first, then it's gone. But if you pick "Make smalltalk" first, then the other options are still available. The way it's presented simply doesn't make sense.

The game itself however is not. Choices matter and I haven't seen any other game here do it better. Ultimately, it's a role-playing experience, so the amount of "if x, then y" is necessary and important. That's where the gameplay is.

Just like the others I replied to, you are missing the point of my criticism. Yes choices matter. My criticism is that the choices are presented in a convoluted way that the game simply lacks clarity. It's great for "choose whatever you want and roll with it" (which is my original playstyle) but it's bad for "oh damn I missed something, and now I have no idea how to find it without looking at walkthrough" (which is my criticism).

Let's take a look at the very first options in the game, when meeting Sarah. The choices are meant to show what kind of character the MC is. But for some reason, it already somehow affected Sarah's points. This is done blindly without knowing what kind of character Sarah is. If she's too casual, is it really bad to be more firm with her? If I play along, is that something that will make her have no respect to me? We simply don't know. And ultimately, we have no idea either how big those choices affected things.

Basically my criticism is about the lack of clarity in design. If you bake a cake and it came out wrong, you'd know what to fix. Cake is too sweet? Use less sugar next time. Cake is burnt? Take it out of the oven earlier or lower the temperature of the oven. And so on. With this game, if you miss something at the end of the chapter, you might not know how to fix it without consulting the walkthrough.

 

[Huitieme]

It's irrelevant because it's not the WT's presentation that I was talking about. It's the logic of the relationship between the options that is convoluted. The WT simply confirmed it.

That has nothing to do with my criticism at all though. Trying to be realistic with the personalities/agenda is not something that means it must be presented in a convoluted way.

For example, to get the boxing invite by Chris, you must pick "Make smalltalk" during her free time. But the way the options are presented it's in the order of "Complain about the crew", "Ask about the mission", "Make smalltalk", "Nothing" in which that if you don't pick "Make smalltalk" first, then it's gone. But if you pick "Make smalltalk" first, then the other options are still available. The way it's presented simply doesn't make sense.

Looks like we'll agree to disagree, then.

When you mention Chris' options "Ask about the mission" and "Make smalltalk", did you tell Chris things she might not like to hear? Our skipper can be quite the petulant child, and if you did scorn her in any way, she'll just treat you as hostile and refuse to talk things further. If you were nice to her, you get the option to make small talk with the lady. That's why I said it was trying to feel "real", people don't like it when you badmouth them or their friends.

I know, I know, you said it seems convoluted, and I tend to agree with you that when I tried the game at first, I thought so as well. The point I'm merely trying to make is, once I tried to think of the characters as real people, I stopped clicking on dialog options just to advance in the story and instead started to take their feelings into account. The game became a lot easier to follow afterward.

Of course, it's not perfect, as there's only a handful of choices, so it's far from realistic, but I'd rather play games like this one that other games I won't name where you can have the same bit of badly written dialog again and again until your roommate starts to munch on your dick.

Let's take a look at the very first options in the game, when meeting Sarah. The choices are meant to show what kind of character the MC is. But for some reason, it already somehow affected Sarah's points. This is done blindly without knowing what kind of character Sarah is. If she's too casual, is it really bad to be more firm with her? If I play along, is that something that will make her have no respect to me? We simply don't know. And ultimately, we have no idea either how big those choices affected things.

Well, this example actually works in favor of my point. The MC can either be a dick or a smooth guy. This is your choice as a player to make a good or bad first impression, and of course Sarah will judge the MC in consequence. IRL, when you act like a dick the first time you see someone, it will impact the way they see you, independently of the reason behind your behaviour. I dare say the lack of foreseeable consequences is a gamedesign point.

Just like the others I replied to, you are missing the point of my criticism. Yes choices matter. My criticism is that the choices are presented in a convoluted way that the game simply lacks clarity. It's great for "choose whatever you want and roll with it" (which is my original playstyle) but it's bad for "oh damn I missed something, and now I have no idea how to find it without looking at walkthrough" (which is my criticism).
(...)
Basically my criticism is about the lack of clarity in design. If you bake a cake and it came out wrong, you'd know what to fix. Cake is too sweet? Use less sugar next time. Cake is burnt? Take it out of the oven earlier or lower the temperature of the oven. And so on. With this game, if you miss something at the end of the chapter, you might not know how to fix it without consulting the walkthrough.

Well my friend, this might be where the problem resides. The player is not meant to discover EVERYTHING during the first playthrough. It's perfectly normal not to see all the scenes, and most big scenes are mutually exclusive anyway (go with Chris' or Annie's plan in the first chapter, go see Sarah or Annie in the second, etc.). Nottravis wanted the player to experiment as the MC lives things instead of just giving you evident choices. And the MC, as well as the player, does not have every bit of information about the other characters. I would go as far as decided to use even go want to do look more like saying the "convoluted" choices are a core part of the game design.

tl;dr you make valid points, but if you try playing the game not as a porn game but a visual novel, it does get better

 

[Akamari]

For example, to get the boxing invite by Chris, you must pick "Make smalltalk" during her free time. But the way the options are presented it's in the order of "Complain about the crew", "Ask about the mission", "Make smalltalk", "Nothing" in which that if you don't pick "Make smalltalk" first, then it's gone. But if you pick "Make smalltalk" first, then the other options are still available. The way it's presented simply doesn't make sense.

If your opening is to complain about the crew, why would she want to make small talk with you? Isn't that logical? See, the thing is the game encourages you to use your bone box. To think about what you say. First choice is not always the best choice. If you say something that will piss the other off, you should expect there is a consequence to it. Like in this case she won't discuss anything not related to the mission. This is actually a great example how to do it right in my opinion.

Just like the others I replied to, you are missing the point of my criticism. Yes choices matter. My criticism is that the choices are presented in a convoluted way that the game simply lacks clarity. It's great for "choose whatever you want and roll with it" (which is my original playstyle) but it's bad for "oh damn I missed something, and now I have no idea how to find it without looking at walkthrough" (which is my criticism).

All the choices are logical. If you miss something, there was a hint or a clue along the way. This is subjective of course, but for me missing something was always a motivation to try again and perhaps think differently. There is replayability in it. Once you learn to pay close attention in chances of you missing something important go down. I have never used a walkthrough here and I won't either. It's part of the fun.

Let's take a look at the very first options in the game, when meeting Sarah. The choices are meant to show what kind of character the MC is. But for some reason, it already somehow affected Sarah's points. This is done blindly without knowing what kind of character Sarah is. If she's too casual, is it really bad to be more firm with her? If I play along, is that something that will make her have no respect to me? We simply don't know. And ultimately, we have no idea either how big those choices affected things.

Kind of like real life, no? When we make the decisions we don't know the consequences. We don't know if saying this or that will give us "points" one way or another. It's subjective, but I really don't like, if the game spoils what "stat" differences choices make. The beauty of the whole "choices and consequences" concept is that you don't know. You should think to choose what's best in relation what personality you're playing as and what your goals for the character are.

Basically my criticism is about the lack of clarity in design. If you bake a cake and it came out wrong, you'd know what to fix. Cake is too sweet? Use less sugar next time. Cake is burnt? Take it out of the oven earlier or lower the temperature of the oven. And so on. With this game, if you miss something at the end of the chapter, you might not know how to fix it without consulting the walkthrough.

Games can have some difficulty, no? This is a VN, choices are pretty much all it has in terms of gameplay. Why should they be super easy? Walkthrough means that you give up and cheat basically.

 

[tontoman]

A fair opinion.

I'll note that it's the walkthrough that is extremely convoluted, playing just by following it would probably give me a headache.

The game itself however is not. Choices matter and I haven't seen any other game here do it better. Ultimately, it's a role-playing experience, so the amount of "if x, then y" is necessary and important. That's where the gameplay is.

Yeah the walkthrough is more complex than needed, assuming you don't have to do things EXACTLY to get 10 out of 10 relationship points say, to trigger an event. If you only need 6/10, then just guessing the right option that makes sense is probably enough and you don't need all that detail. Depends how much slack is in the game.

The hard switches are mentioned in the walkthrough though, which is the most useful. Like choosing which solution to save the ship, isn't obvious you're also opening/closing the Chris DOM paths. That's definately need to know for a walkthrough. But easily found on save scumming.

Walkthrough I'd guess is actually stripped out coding, semi translated to english (some great work done there) which is why it will give some a headache and looks complicated. It has EVERYTHING even if probably not needed.

But having choices that matter and getting more complicated for me in inclusive. If a choice just triggers something on the next page (and only that), that's not real meaningful choices. If it opens/closes different paths, that's meaningful but also more complex to follow. Don't think you can escape that, just have to accept it.
Bit like puzzle games, the old school and the new. Old days of Lucas Arts and Myst, you had to get info from everywhere to use it to solve a puzzle. Nowadays, you find all the items in the same room as the puzzle (*Find key, use key in door, SOLVED!).

 

[preglovr12]

Yeah the walkthrough is more complex than needed

There's no such thing in my opinion. I like knowing all I can personally.

 

[tontoman]

There's no such thing in my opinion. I like knowing all I can personally.

So if you had a tax question, you'd want me to sent you all the volumes of the tax code .
edit: But it's really making the same point as Akamari, it might seem complicated but doesn't mean it plays that way.

 

[tontoman]

...
For example, to get the boxing invite by Chris, you must pick "Make smalltalk" during her free time. But the way the options are presented it's in the order of "Complain about the crew", "Ask about the mission", "Make smalltalk", "Nothing" in which that if you don't pick "Make smalltalk" first, then it's gone. But if you pick "Make smalltalk" first, then the other options are still available. The way it's presented simply doesn't make sense.
...

Pro tip on the gaming side of this stuff: When you lose options like that, save scum that screen . What all the saves are for. Not disappearing choices bug me (like so often in Fallout).

"Your mother is a dirty whore"
"Can I borrow $20?"
Shouldn't work out the same way regardless of the order I use them heh. You might not agree with when/where your options get reduced (smalltalk before work/crew complaints makes sense to me), but it's not like you don't notice it and can try again.

Actually, big dialog options are pretty much a save point for me regardless. Even though I'm playing through story wise, I do so as never quite sure what I think my choice is going to be, is the same as the writers. If it is, I continue on, it not might try others.
Lesser version of Fallout 4 FUBAR choice of having generic conversation options on release, when you had no idea what your choice would actually come out as. Had so many folks saving at every conversation.

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

For example, to get the boxing invite by Chris, you must pick "Make smalltalk" during her free time. But the way the options are presented it's in the order of "Complain about the crew", "Ask about the mission", "Make smalltalk", "Nothing" in which that if you don't pick "Make smalltalk" first, then it's gone. But if you pick "Make smalltalk" first, then the other options are still available. The way it's presented simply doesn't make sense.

This particular case makes perfect sense.. if you annoy someone first you can still talk about the important stuff later

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

If you bake a cake and it came out wrong, you'd know what to fix. Cake is too sweet? Use less sugar next time. Cake is burnt? Take it out of the oven earlier or lower the temperature of the oven. And so on. With this game, if you miss something at the end of the chapter, you might not know how to fix it without consulting the walkthrough.

But you are not the baker, just a fat kid drooling over the bakery's vindow.
Notty knows what she's baking. And if this first cake will have any flaws (becca being just a tutorial girl doesn't count) the next one will be even tastier

 

[frap]

Basically my criticism is about the lack of clarity in design. If you bake a cake and it came out wrong, you'd know what to fix. Cake is too sweet? Use less sugar next time. Cake is burnt? Take it out of the oven earlier or lower the temperature of the oven. And so on. With this game, if you miss something at the end of the chapter, you might not know how to fix it without consulting the walkthrough.

This isn't like baking a cake, though. It's more like walking through the buffet line with a very small plate. You can't get everything in one trip, you just have to pick what you most want at that time.

The list of things at the end of the chapter aren't there to say "if you didn't get all of these you're a loser," because there is no way to get all of them in one playthrough. They are more like the placard at the table where you sit with your tiny plate of food, telling you of all the wonderful things the buffet still has to offer, and enticing you to take another trip through.

Notty's buffet line will only get longer the more chapters are released. Can't wait to see what that final desert tray will look like.

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

This isn't like baking a cake, though. It's more like walking through the buffet line with a very small plate. You can't get everything in one trip, you just have to pick what you most want at that time.

The list of things at the end of the chapter aren't there to say "if you didn't get all of these you're a loser," because there is no way to get all of them in one playthrough. They are more like the placard at the table where you sit with your tiny plate of food, telling you of all the wonderful things the buffet still has to offer, and enticing you to take another trip through.

Notty's buffet line will only get longer the more chapters are released. Can't wait to see what that final desert tray will look like.

I'm doing loops since new year's eve

 

[pay.nl]

There's no such thing in my opinion. I like knowing all I can personally.

Agreed. I can confirm that the existing guide can be used with only one free hand, which is all that matters for a walkthrough imo. I've already played for the story; sometimes you have to go back and catch the things you've missed.

 

[batanegra]

Here is a compressed pc and mac version of Ch2 v1.1!

PC (130MB):

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Mac (131MB):

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maybe just me, but with your version i have a full black in the dialogue when there is no dialogue

 

[The ArcKnight]

Which routes with everyone yields the best results? I kinda want to do the sub route with Sarah because dom/sub is a hot dynamic but i dont want to be the villain and still want Annie to like me. also hate fuck Chris.

Should I be going for respect points? Subpoints? Affection?

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

Which routes with everyone yields the best results? I kinda want to do the sub route with Sarah because dom/sub is a hot dynamic but i dont want to be the villain and still want Annie to like me. also hate fuck Chris.

Should I be going for respect points? Subpoints? Affection?

Play the vr route it may have better options for what you are planning.

 

[Akamari]

maybe just me, but with your version i have a full black in the dialogue when there is no dialogue

@crust There is an issue with gui images losing transparency after the compression.

Here's a fix for this. The "gui" folder in this archive needs to be copied into the the "game" folder overwriting existing "gui" folder and all files within.

 

[Akamari]

Which routes with everyone yields the best results? I kinda want to do the sub route with Sarah because dom/sub is a hot dynamic but i dont want to be the villain and still want Annie to like me. also hate fuck Chris.

Should I be going for respect points? Subpoints? Affection?

If you don't want to be a villain then not blackmailing her seems like a good choice, no?

Still, you can go with the blackmail and be nice to Annie simultaneously and get away with it (for now).

I suggest playing without a walkthrough. You are missing out on the fun parts of gameplay the choices and consequences offer. As one article I read today put it, choices and consequences are the holy grail of a good RPG.

 

[Goblin Baily: DILF]

If you don't want to be a villain then not blackmailing her seems like a good choice, no?

Still, you can go with the blackmail and be nice to Annie simultaneously and get away with it (for now).

I suggest playing without a walkthrough. You are missing out on the fun parts of gameplay the choices and consequences offer. As one article I read today put it, choices and consequences are the holy grail of a good RPG.

My official walkthrough for Heavy Five is this song
I've never been closer
I've tried to understand
That certain feeling
Carved by another's hand
But it's too late to hesitate
We can't keep on living like this
Leave no track
Don't look back
All I desire
Temptation
Keep climbing higher and higher
Temptation
Adorable creatures
Temptation
With unacceptable features
Temptation
Trouble is coming
Temptation
It's just the high cost of loving
Temptation
You can take it or leave it
Temptation
But you'd better believe it
You've got to make me an offer
That cannot be ignored
So let's head for home now
Everything I have is yours
Step by step and day by day
Every second counts I can't break away
Leave no trace
Hide your face
All I desire
Temptation
Keep climbing higher and higher
Temptation
You can take it or leave it
Temptation
But you'd better believe it
Step by step
Day by day
Every second counts
I can't break away
Keep us from temptation (x3)
Lead us not in temptation
All I desire
Temptation
Keep climbing higher and higher
Temptation
Adorable creatures
Temptation
With unacceptable features
Temptation
Trouble is coming
Temptation
It's just the high cost of loving
Temptation
You can take it or leave it
Temptation
But you'd better believe it
You've got to make me an offer
That cannot be ignored
So let's head for home now
Everything I have is yours
Step by step and day by day
Every second counts I can't break away
Leave no trace
Hide your face
Trying to find it
Temptation
You've got to get up behind it
Put your dime in the hot slot
Temptation
But it's a million to one shot
Temptation
you think that you're right
Temptation
Your gonna face it tonite now
Temptation
Give me a breakdown
Because it's time for a shakedown
temptation (x10)
then repeat last verse
eg.
Trying to find it
get up behind it
dime in the hot slot
million to one shot
think that you're right
Your gonna face it tonite now
Give me a breakdown
it's time for a shakedown
After all it is the soundtrack of Notty's creativity

 

[gtomlinson]

Is there an android port for this?