Ren'Py Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[Huitieme]

Good and bad is, of course, a matter of perspective, but allow me to disagree with you. I think anyone who is not an idiot tries to be a good guy in his own perspective. Whether others agree or not is a different matter. Saying "just a guy" is basically the same.

Hmm, I accept your disagreement, but I disagree with it
Not strongly, mind you, it's just that I find strange to live your everyday life thinking of yourself as a good guy. I think, mostly, people just try to be "not a bad guy", but it doesn't necessarily mean "good". Also, everyone has their own definition of what a bad guy can be. I'm speeding 10km/h higher than the limit, am I a bad guy? I'm recycling my garbage on a daily basis, am I a good guy? I'm using unsuspecting colleagues for illegal tryouts of medicine of my own device, am I a... Okay, doesn't sound so good, actually.

What I'm saying is that if you have to define yourself as "good" or "bad", it means you're already in a narrative where the border is quite blurry. So all the H5 characters thinking themselves as "the good guy"? Me no trust them.

 

[TheDevian]

Hmm, I accept your disagreement, but I disagree with it
Not strongly, mind you, it's just that I find strange to live your everyday life thinking of yourself as a good guy. I think, mostly, people just try to be "not a bad guy", but it doesn't necessarily mean "good". Also, everyone has their own definition of what a bad guy can be. I'm speeding 10km/h higher than the limit, am I a bad guy? I'm recycling my garbage on a daily basis, am I a good guy? I'm using unsuspecting colleagues for illegal tryouts of medicine of my own device, am I a... Okay, doesn't sound so good, actually.

What I'm saying is that if you have to define yourself as "good" or "bad", it means you're already in a narrative where the border is quite blurry already. So all the H5 characters thinking themselves as "the good guy"? Me no trust them.

I am a good guy, I have cards that say so to prove it!

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[TomberryDude]

Hmm, I accept your disagreement, but I disagree with it
Not strongly, mind you, it's just that I find strange to live your everyday life thinking of yourself as a good guy. I think, mostly, people just try to be "not a bad guy", but it doesn't necessarily mean "good". Also, everyone has their own definition of what a bad guy can be. I'm speeding 10km/h higher than the limit, am I a bad guy? I'm recycling my garbage on a daily basis, am I a good guy? I'm using unsuspecting colleagues for illegal tryouts of medicine of my own device, am I a... Okay, doesn't sound so good, actually.

What I'm saying is that if you have to define yourself as "good" or "bad", it means you're already in a narrative where the border is quite blurry already. So all the H5 characters thinking themselves as "the good guy"? Me no trust them.

Hell, I'm as straight arrow "lawful-ish" good as they come and I don't think you have to be dumb to not try to be a good guy. Plenty of evil people are smart. I wish they weren't, the world would be a better place if evil people were easier to stop because they're stupid.

 

[frap]

On characters and motivations....

None of them think of themselves as the bad guy. Your mileage may vary....

Make of that what you will

Only the worst-written bad guys see themselves as the bad guy.

Your writing is not the worst. It's like... the opposite of worst... like... most bestest!

 

[Akamari]

"not a bad guy", but it doesn't necessarily mean "good".

My dinner was not bad. Good enough for me.

No, i didn't have a guy for dinner, sheesh!

 

[Akamari]

I agree if it was consensual...though you drawing a very long bow to call it that

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Don't get me wrong, I love game and even jumped on board in Patreon. Is just the whole Chris/Kelly/MC dynamic I find distasteful and totally manipulative non consensual. And yes I also uncomfortable with the MC/Sarah blackmail path for same reason. This is about my personal tastes not about game itself.

With Chris I would recommend to take a step back. She may seem aggressive, but is she really?

• Kelly made the bet with Chris (after she refused a bet from her), which she didn't need to do.
• Why the MC didn't warn her? Maybe because he knows her longer than we do and she wouldn't appreciate it?
• He also didn't know Kelly is there until the second day.
• We don't know the stakes of their bet, do we?
• All Chris' bets are consensual. She even offers to cancel the frogette bet after her identity is revealed. I don't see that as manipulation, but rather a prank. Chris always plays fair, unless someone else doesn't.
• No charges were proven. Innocent until proven guilty.
• Chris likes to be in control. Suggesting bets in which you have an advantage is a smart thing to do. It's on the recipient if he dares to challenge the odds. You can play safe and smart and don't accept any bets.
• Annie is her best friend. You were trouble.
• Chris doesn't actually make out with Sarah. She just likes to flirt.

 

[Sinphil]

With Chris I would recommend to take a step back. She may seem aggressive, but is she really?

• Kelly made the bet with Chris (after she refused a bet from her), which she didn't need to do.
• Why the MC didn't warn her? Maybe because he knows her longer than we do and she wouldn't appreciate it?
• He also didn't know Kelly is there until the second day.
• We don't know the stakes of their bet, do we?
• All Chris' bets are consensual. She even offers to cancel the frogette bet after her identity is revealed. I don't see that as manipulation, but rather a prank. Chris always plays fair, unless someone else doesn't.
• No charges were proven. Innocent until proven guilty.
• Chris likes to be in control. Suggesting bets in which you have an advantage is a smart thing to do. It's on the recipient if he dares to challenge the odds. You can play safe and smart and don't accept any bets.
• Annie is her best friend. You were trouble.
• Chris doesn't actually make out with Sarah. She just likes to flirt.

By your logic there would be no fraud laws or non disclosure laws in real estate. If you want a legal example just look at the old Pool Sharks, for a century now a person that pretends to be weaker than they are at pool to sucker people to bet and caught has been charged with fraud if caught. Any bet where you dont disclose all details including skill levels of competitors is fraud. There are so many examples across sports where people have been charged with fraud. Chris is a con artist in any country.

As for Sarah not been made out with. I would love to hear any court where fondling a woman and sticking tongue down her throat would be considered reasonable method to calm someone down and not molestation as before emergency planet side landing.

 

[TomberryDude]

By your logic there would be no fraud laws or non disclosure laws in real estate. If you want a legal example just look at the old Pool Sharks, for a century now a person that pretends to be weaker than they are at pool to sucker people to bet and caught has been charged with fraud if caught. Any bet where you dont disclose all details including skill levels of competitors is fraud. There are so many examples across sports where people have been charged with fraud. Chris is a con artist in any country.

As for Sarah not been made out with. I would love to hear any court where fondling a woman and sticking tongue down her throat would be considered reasonable method to calm someone down and not molestation as before emergency planet side landing.

I don't think you can call it fraud when it's a bet between friends/colleagues that doesn't involve money in any way. Not saying Chris isn't trying to take advantage of people, sexually. I just don't think the term's acurate.

As for Sarah, I dunno. She might not mind the sexual harrassment or she might not say anything because she's scared for her job. Can't really tell.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

I don't think you can call it fraud when it's a bet between friends/colleagues that doesn't involve money in any way. Not saying Chris isn't trying to take advantage of people, sexually. I just don't think the term's acurate.

As for Sarah, I dunno. She might not mind the sexual harrassment or she might not say anything because she's scared for her job. Can't really tell.

Kinda agree about the reasoning on Chris but we never see how she was "pursuing" Kelly during the day. That could be a bit of skirting the rules.

About Sarah it is sexual harrassment but isn't that the evil corruption path? So it should be like that.

 

[Sinphil]

Kinda agree about the reasoning on Chris but we never see how she was "pursuing" Kelly during the day. That could be a bit of skirting the rules.

About Sarah it is sexual harrassment but isn't that the evil corruption path? So it should be like that.

I think I may have overlooked something potentially big in whole thing.

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Of course I probably totally wrong lol

 

[Akamari]

By your logic there would be no fraud laws or non disclosure laws in real estate. If you want a legal example just look at the old Pool Sharks, for a century now a person that pretends to be weaker than they are at pool to sucker people to bet and caught has been charged with fraud if caught. Any bet where you dont disclose all details including skill levels of competitors is fraud. There are so many examples across sports where people have been charged with fraud. Chris is a con artist in any country.

Sorry, but these are bets between two soldiers and not a law abiding contract. Y'know people do these for fun. Maybe it's different where you are, but if someone offered me a bet, the first thought that would come to mind is that he/she has some kind of advantage. Likewise, if I was making a bet like Chris does, I damn well would do it only if I was confident in my victory, and I would expect the other party not to accept. Again, this is just fun, it's not meant to be harmful in any way.

As for Sarah not been made out with. I would love to hear any court where fondling a woman and sticking tongue down her throat would be considered reasonable method to calm someone down and not molestation as before emergency planet side landing.

I suggest playing again because that simply didn't happen.

 

[Oddball2k]

Morning, i left the thread at 10am(GMT+1) yesterday and now 5 pages more, nice!

, Notty was really chatty today!

Chris does like her rules, no?

I think this is a pretty key way of thinking about the girls generally tbh. If you view them more as people rather than as sex quests the whole game makes more sense. Sexually Chris won't be to everyone's tastes (indeed that applies more broadly to all of the girls really) but that doesn't stop them from being interesting characters in their own right. A lot depends on how you want to play your MC. I imagine if you play your MC as being the ultra professional officer you'll gravitate to Chris and Amanda's storylines not for sexual reasons but because they are more professional.

By that I mean you may well follow down their non-romance storylines - you of course have other romance storylines which aren't dependant upon those.

On the other hand why be professional? You got roused out of bed to do someone else's job and what's Ophion's problems to you? Screw them. Place should have been shut down when they had the chance. So let the others worry about that. Pay lip service to your mission, recommend the place gets shut down and just go drinking, playing games or get.....well, that last one would be telling.

Rambling. Sorry

H5 is two games in one. The actual mission based storyline and the romance/sexings and your focus as a player can be either or both as you chose. As long as you find something to enjoy - even if just the Scarlet Pirate books - then I've done my job and entertained you.

And me with my canon path named "The professional", i am delectation!
I will restart it first and from the beginning to enjoy the redo renders as i will later for my other paths.

The Chris romance path (not the domme sex path) is probably one of the hardest and emotional of them all. I seriously doubt if anyone will do it. Not because mechanically it's hard. There's no grinding or anything like that. It's just "story" hard. But we'll see....

Oh, i am prepared for all the hard stuffs to my taste with this motivation sentence:

"It is by will alone I set my MC in motion. It is by the leather thong of ACIO that actions acquire consequences, the back acquire bruises, bruises become a warning. It is by will alone I set my MC in motion."

All resemblance with a 1984 movie quote is totally coincidental.

Thank you so much for trying my little game. I wish I'd pulled my finger out and remastered it earlier now! And thank you for dropping in with your feedback. It's always really appreciated.


*grins at a job well done*

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As pure as crystal and superbly explained!
For the situation bias part, you choose a very good example, i know this crash case.

 

[Nottravis]

*peeks in over coffee, chuckling*

Morning guys

I do love these types of conversations. As a writer ("oooo get her!") I love the fact there is a element of strong feeling about the characters and not just "X is -my- waifu" sort of bollocks y'know?

As always you all make sensible and valid points based on what you know - which again is ideal. Of course some of you scamps who play -every- path (no names, no pack drill...)*

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...have a slight advantage in that larger aspects of the characters....well, character I suppose, is revealed and so apparent inconsistencies are revealed not to be perhaps far earlier than I expected. It is of course hugely tempting to leap in and go "Ah but...." but given I'd set out the story in a certain way for reveals to drop at certain points it would be rather silly of me to do so I suppose

So incredibly for once I won't say that much. Other than I'm loving the discussion and it's so nice to see some new players bring their own take on it.

I do wonder what happened in the cabin after the MC was kicked out tho....

Oh wait! I know

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[Akamari]

As for Sarah, I dunno. She might not mind the sexual harrassment or she might not say anything because she's scared for her job. Can't really tell.

Or they are friends and a bit of flirting doesn't hurt?

 

[TomberryDude]

Or they are friends and a bit of flirting doesn't hurt?

It's really hard to say for me. I didn't see that scene in 2 playthroughs and some people say it didn't even happen. Either way I think it's reading too much into it to pin Chris as a terrible monster.

Also it's hard for me to blame a character for being flirty with others in a game where one of the point is having sex with them.

 

[Akamari]

I do wonder what happened in the cabin after the MC was kicked out tho....

You just like pouring more oil in, don't ya?

 

[Nottravis]

I didn't see that scene in 2 playthroughs

Perfect

I mean that purely by this is what I was aiming for. That -your- story would be your story y'know? That the game you end up playing is tailored very much to your own decisions and preferences. Plus of course it also shows that your choices and decisions do indeed have consequences both for you and what other characters do

 

[Nottravis]

You just like pouring more oil in, don't ya?

*looks innocent!*

 

[TomberryDude]

Perfect

I mean that purely by this is what I was aiming for. That -your- story would be your story y'know? That the game you end up playing is tailored very much to your own decisions and preferences. Plus of course it also shows that your choices and decisions do indeed have consequences both for you and what other characters do

I love you too.

 

[Nottravis]

Sorry, but these are bets between two soldiers and not a law abiding contract. Y'know people do these for fun. Maybe it's different where you are, but if someone offered me a bet, the first thought that would come to mind is that he/she has some kind of advantage. Likewise, if I was making a bet like Chris does, I damn well would do it only if I was confident in my victory, and I would expect the other party not to accept. Again, this is just fun, it's not meant to be harmful in any way.


I suggest playing again because that simply didn't happen.

On the bets in general the MC has several opportunities to ask just why they are all so wager obsessed in Four....