Ren'Py Abandoned Heavy Five [Ch.2RS] [Nottravis]

[TomberryDude]

I don't get that or the Patreon votes and high tier scenes to decide content. I want to play developers story not some hodgepodge development by committee. One of first lectures I had the lit professor had us create a story on fly going around lecture hall adding one line at a time to show us why collaborative storytelling while funny is usually a mess.

Opinions polls on what happens next in a game when a dev knows what they want in their game but don't have to introduce things in a specific order is fine by me. Opinion polls about a minor thing the dev don't have strong ideas for what it should be is alright too (although that makes the dev look a bit bad in some way I guess)

High tier reward that lets ONE person design their own dumb scene is terrible though. Let's have one rando who isn't part of the crew working on the game decide for every player what should be in it. That sounds like a great idea.

 

[Dripping]

Opinions polls on what happens next in a game when a dev knows what they want in their game but don't have to introduce things in a specific order is fine by me. Opinion polls about a minor thing the dev don't have strong ideas for what it should be is alright too (although that makes the dev look a bit bad in some way I guess)

High tier reward that lets ONE person design their own dumb scene is terrible though. Let's have one rando who isn't part of the crew working on the game decide for every player what should be in it. That sounds like a great idea.

To me, a developer asking what to add to his (or her) game is simply a crappy developer who didn't do his or her homework.
If the design of the game permits it, then I'm fine with having a vote to let some patreons decide (to a degree) the order of the content to be released.. But a developer asking "Should I include content types X, Y or Z" obviously didn't do his homework, actually has NO plans whatsoever for his (or her) game, and basically just thought "Gosh, I have this vague idea for an opening scene, let's make a game out of it and milk some idiots for cash". Sooner or later, a developer who doesn't have a clue where he or she is headed for with the game, will end up pissing off more than half of his patreons for adding stuff they have no interest in (to put it very mildly), or not including content he or she promised to include earlier in the development process, or worse, in game.
Yes, there are a gazillion reasons to include or exclude content that you originally did or did not plan for. Player demand should not ever be one of them. It's better to be honest about your plans regarding requested content, and stick with it.

 

[TomberryDude]

To me, a developer asking what to add to his (or her) game is simply a crappy developer who didn't do his or her homework.
If the design of the game permits it, then I'm fine with having a vote to let some patreons decide (to a degree) the order of the content to be released.. But a developer asking "Should I include content types X, Y or Z" obviously didn't do his homework, actually has NO plans whatsoever for his (or her) game, and basically just thought "Gosh, I have this vague idea for an opening scene, let's make a game out of it and milk some idiots for cash". Sooner or later, a developer who doesn't have a clue where he or she is headed for with the game, will end up pissing off more than half of his patreons for adding stuff they have no interest in (to put it very mildly), or not including content he or she promised to include earlier in the development process, or worse, in game.
Yes, there are a gazillion reasons to include or exclude content that you originally did or did not plan for. Player demand should not ever be one of them. It's better to be honest about your plans regarding requested content, and stick with it.

Disclaimer I might be biased because I love that game to bits. But Runey of Harem Hotel at least used to ask on discord and patreon what type of girls we'd like to see in the hotel, mostly in terms in personality. A shy goth girl or a big sisterly kind of sweet girl for exemple.

TBF it was multiple choices. I would agree with you wholeheartedly if a dev was like "shit I don't know what to put in my game pls help". And even then I probably wouldn't peg them as terrible, they may not be too good as some aspects of game making and great at others. This is why most games are made by teams of people.

 

[TheDevian]

We've met her through Annie, and her BP is gonna give us a good idea of what she's like. For what we know now, I do love her until proven otherwise

Also, angry short redhead with a thick Scot accent. What's not to love?

For me, just the angry part. I am not a tsundere or yandere lover (usually, exceptions to every rule), and I have enough anger and drama in my life, I don't need to add to it. Also, I am broken enough, I don't need help making it worse...

Unfortunately, I'm progressing with the celerity of a very asthmatic turtle
By the time chapter 1 is out, Notty will have released all H5 and started working on the sequel...

I know the feeling, such a high learning curve right now, so busy some days, even checking in here feels like a bad plan, but I can't help it.

Your next playground (hopefully if you stick with me! )
View attachment 397362

Well I may as play with maps and things whilst I wait for renders and whatnot, no?

As if we would leave you? XD

Oh aye a straight up fight would be mad for her/you. Still sketching out at the mo but defo more a case of sneakiness than straight up shoot it out. Well with Collingwood at least.

With other ships, fighting and plunder are more of an option. Whether that's you as the aggressor or the defender...

You see, this is why you need super powers, first they need to go out and find some Devil's Fruits...

I know how you feel. There are lots of awesome songs out there, but people only know the cover version or the sampled version, that makes me sad.

Like that Kissed a girl song, most people like the Katie Perry version, but not Jill Sobule. Hers wasn't even that much older.
Of course, before they did the copyright laws in the late 70's, everyone used to copy everyone else.

Opinions polls on what happens next in a game when a dev knows what they want in their game but don't have to introduce things in a specific order is fine by me. Opinion polls about a minor thing the dev don't have strong ideas for what it should be is alright too (although that makes the dev look a bit bad in some way I guess)

High tier reward that lets ONE person design their own dumb scene is terrible though. Let's have one rando who isn't part of the crew working on the game decide for every player what should be in it. That sounds like a great idea.

Yes, polls can be well used, for some things, like which outfit do you like better, or help pick a name, or something, but when you are asking them to pick what to do next, you start to lose the project.

So many games that rely on that stuff end up focusing on certain characters (family) to the detriment of far too many others.

Disclaimer I might be biased because I love that game to bits. But Runey of Harem Hotel at least used to ask on discord and patreon what type of girls we'd like to see in the hotel, mostly in terms in personality. A shy goth girl or a big sisterly kind of sweet girl for exemple.

TBF it was multiple choices. I would agree with you wholeheartedly if a dev was like "shit I don't know what to put in my game pls help". And even then I probably wouldn't peg them as terrible, they may not be too good as some aspects of game making and great at others. This is why most games are made by teams of people.

As I said, exceptions to every rule.

 

[TomberryDude]

Yes, polls can be well used, for some things, like which outfit do you like better, or help pick a name, or something, but when you are asking them to pick what to do next, you start to lose the project.

So many games that rely on that stuff end up focusing on certain characters (family) to the detriment of far too many others.

It's true. Most devs are bad at management and end up diluting content, dropping features or worse. it is always massively impressive when a single person manages to make an all around great game.

 

[Dripping]

Disclaimer I might be biased because I love that game to bits. But Runey of Harem Hotel at least used to ask on discord and patreon what type of girls we'd like to see in the hotel, mostly in terms in personality. A shy goth girl or a big sisterly kind of sweet girl for exemple.

TBF it was multiple choices. I would agree with you wholeheartedly if a dev was like "shit I don't know what to put in my game pls help". And even then I probably wouldn't peg them as terrible, they may not be too good as some aspects of game making and great at others. This is why most games are made by teams of people.

While true to some degree, it would've been better if the developer had taken a bit more time, and planned the story of his game ahead of development. Even if the plan isn't really detailed yet, just a crude plan for the game starts with A, it concludes with Z, and inbetween I'll have the key story developments D, F, M and Q. I sadly see many developers here starting with the A, maybe a B, but who don't have a clue yet about D, even less about conclusion Z. Preperation really matters for making a consistent storyline instead of a pot-pourri (Thank you for the correction, Huitieme!!!)

 

[TheDevian]

While true to some degree, it would've been better if the developer had taken a bit more time, and planned the story of his game ahead of development. Even if the plan isn't really detailed yet, just a crude plan for the game starts with A, it concludes with Z, and inbetween I'll have the key story developments D, F, M and Q. Is sadly see many developers here starting with the A, maybe a B, but who don't have a clue yet about D, even less about conclusion Z. Preperation really matters for making a consistent storyline instead of a potpouri (I kindly ask Huitieme to forgive me any spelling mistakes on that one)

Yeah, I love Harem Hotel, but that has backed him into a corner on occasion. He is having a really hard time working on a story for the 'goth' girl Juliet for example.
But yeah, I am more the plan as much as I can out ahead of time kind of guy.

 

[TomberryDude]

While true to some degree, it would've been better if the developer had taken a bit more time, and planned the story of his game ahead of development. Even if the plan isn't really detailed yet, just a crude plan for the game starts with A, it concludes with Z, and inbetween I'll have the key story developments D, F, M and Q. I sadly see many developers here starting with the A, maybe a B, but who don't have a clue yet about D, even less about conclusion Z. Preperation really matters for making a consistent storyline instead of a potpouri (I kindly ask Huitieme to forgive me any spelling mistakes on that one)

Sorry, this, I have to disagree with. I like good stories as much as any nerd but games don't need good stories to be good games, in fact they don't need stories at all.

I don't exactly play Mario, Banjo Kazooie, Castlevania, Minecraft, The Sims, and hundreds of other games for the gripping storyline and 75 volumes of extended universe lore or some shit.

What keeps me going back to HH is the characters, mostly. Runey's been doing a surprisinly ok job at world building which I'll admit I'm not entirely sure was planned but I'm not gonna complain.

 

[Huitieme]

I kindly ask Huitieme to forgive me any spelling mistakes on that one

Its pot-pourri.

 

[Dripping]

Sorry, this, I have to disagree with. I like good stories as much as any nerd but games don't need good stories to be good games, in fact they don't need stories at all.

I don't exactly play Mario, Banjo Kazooie, Castlevania, Minecraft, The Sims, and hundreds of other games for the gripping storyline and 75 volumes of extended universe lore or some shit.

As odd as it may sound, those games do have a lot of consistency in the storyline running in the background of the game. And the ones you mention, also aren't limited by the two dimensional VN format of the games found here. There's a couple of games here that have that benefit of having something more going on than non interactive graphics, mostly platformers and the occasional 3D sandbox game, but the avarage game here is just a block of text with 2-3 options, and then some non-interactive image or animation showing the result of your decision. With such limited interaction, you do need some consistency that make it feel logical how you get from one scene to the next.

 

[TheDevian]

As odd as it may sound, those games do have a lot of consistency in the storyline running in the background of the game. And the ones you mention, also aren't limited by the two dimensional VN format of the games found here. There's a couple of games here that have that benefit of having something more going on than non interactive graphics, mostly platformers and the occasional 3D sandbox game, but the avarage game here is just a block of text with 2-3 options, and then some non-interactive image or animation showing the result of your decision. With such limited interaction, you do need some consistency that make it feel logical how you get from one scene to the next.

It also depends on what you are trying to accomplish, if you are doing something like Notty here, or Runey on HH, you have someone who is building a rich world, that is more story dependent, rather than some others that might be more of a fuckfest.

 

[TomberryDude]

As odd as it may sound, those games do have a lot of consistency in the storyline running in the background of the game. And the ones you mention, also aren't limited by the two dimensional VN format of the games found here. There's a couple of games here that have that benefit of having something more going on than non interactive graphics, mostly platformers and the occasional 3D sandbox game, but the avarage game here is just a block of text with 2-3 options, and then some non-interactive image or animation showing the result of your decision. With such limited interaction, you do need some consistency that make it feel logical how you get from one scene to the next.

There's more than a couple good games here with little to no story (or even bad stories altogether). Good story is always nice, I just don't think it's necessary. The fact most games here are VN is irrelevant to the point I'm making. I'm not talking just about games here but games in general, all of them.

Sorry about being kinda serious about this but I see these arguments often and it irks me... Although I could be completely wrong about this and story is the most important thing in the world I guess. Tastes and whatever.

 

[Akamari]

To me, a developer asking what to add to his (or her) game is simply a crappy developer who didn't do his or her homework.

Yes, there are elements patrons shouldn't touch. Be it core game design, the main story, characters personalities, etc. Letting people change the game's overall direction is definitely a bad idea. These things should be planned long in advance.

If the design of the game permits it, then I'm fine with having a vote to let some patreons decide (to a degree) the order of the content to be released..

This, however, is something I dislike. A dev should have a clear plan when to release every part of the game. I don't like updates focused on a single girl, for example. That is a sure way to get me off patronage, if it depends on a vote. Yes, the developer will eventually make all of them, but if I happen to like only one that also is not very popular? I can end up looking at two or more updates with nothing of interest to me.

One of the many things I like about Notty is that the order of release is entirely up to her to fit the chapter framework and the story in the best possible way. Every route gets something in every update. It's for everyone, not just those who won the poll.

But a developer asking "Should I include content types X, Y or Z" obviously didn't do his homework, actually has NO plans whatsoever for his (or her) game, and basically just thought "Gosh, I have this vague idea for an opening scene, let's make a game out of it and milk some idiots for cash". Sooner or later, a developer who doesn't have a clue where he or she is headed for with the game, will end up pissing off more than half of his patreons for adding stuff they have no interest in (to put it very mildly), or not including content he or she promised to include earlier in the development process, or worse, in game.

There are some devs who don't plan enough and do what you suggest, but inherently letting patrons decide specific content doesn't necessarily mean lack of planning. It can be actually be the opposite. The dev may have plans or ideas for more content than what can be fit in, so he lets patrons decide, while he is happy to do any of the options. A win-win.

I do plan to have large participation of patrons on certain important elements. All the options that I will offer, however, will be prepared. None of it should look like "I don't know what to do, choose something from me" I imagine I will have a ton of stuff written that will never see the light of day, but part of the fun for me is not knowing exactly everything that will be in the game. It's a bit of a team effort. I have complete creative control, but patrons can narrow the focus down to some extent.

Notty, by the way, also does content polls for high tiers from time to time. It's more of a side stuff where she has multiple ideas (lately the Scarlet Pirate for example), so she lets patrons choose one of them, but the principle is there. Patrons participate in the development. Surely you wouldn't say there is lack of planning here, would you?

 

[TheDevian]

Yes, there are elements patrons shouldn't touch. Be it core game design, the main story, characters personalities, etc. Letting people change the game's overall direction is definitely a bad idea. These things should be planned long in advance.


This, however, is something I dislike. A dev should have a clear plan when to release every part of the game. I don't like updates focused on a single girl, for example. That is a sure way to get me off patronage, if it depends on a vote. Yes, the developer will eventually make all of them, but if I happen to like only one that also is not very popular? I can end up looking at two or more updates with nothing of interest to me.

One of the many things I like about Notty is that the order of release is entirely up to her to fit the chapter framework and the story in the best possible way. Every route gets something in every update. It's for everyone, not just those who won the poll.


There are some devs who don't plan enough and do what you suggest, but inherently letting patrons decide specific content doesn't necessarily mean lack of planning. It can be actually be the opposite. The dev may have plans or ideas for more content than what can be fit in, so he lets patrons decide, while he is happy to do any of the options. A win-win.

I do plan to have large participation of patrons on certain important elements. All the options that I will offer, however, will be prepared. None of it should look like "I don't know what to do, choose something from me" I imagine I will have a ton of stuff written that will never see the light of day, but part of the fun for me is not knowing exactly everything that will be in the game. It's a bit of a team effort. I have complete creative control, but patrons can narrow the focus down to some extent.

Notty, by the way, also does content polls for high tiers from time to time. It's more of a side stuff where she has multiple ideas (lately the Scarlet Pirate for example), so she lets patrons choose one of them, but the principle is there. Patrons participate in the development. Surely you wouldn't say there is lack of planning here, would you?

Yeah, there is a fine line, and some can do things well, others ...not so much.
For example, if you ask the players to pick what order something might be in, normally you are going to get a few favorites who always get picked, but once you have done a bit with one, if you don't let people vote for that until you have done a bit of everyone else, then it's not so bad...

But, like with most things, moderation is key.

 

[TomberryDude]

This is the song that Heavy Five reminds me of. (kinda nervous about sharing though).

 

[Nottravis]

 

[TomberryDude]

View attachment 397676

She's looking very cute.

 

[Nottravis]

Thoughts? As opposed to the existing system?

 

[TomberryDude]

View attachment 397685

Thoughts? As opposed to the existing system?

I think that's great. Maybe the text color could pop out more it's a little hard to read.

 

[Nottravis]

Yeah, there is a fine line, and some can do things well, others ...not so much.
For example, if you ask the players to pick what order something might be in, normally you are going to get a few favorites who always get picked, but once you have done a bit with one, if you don't let people vote for that until you have done a bit of everyone else, then it's not so bad...

But, like with most things, moderation is key.

Aye as Akamari says I let Patrons choose a bit of content. Actually a fair bit now I think of it But all side stuff. Bored Pilot the Scarlet Pirate and the bonus mini-game content are the best examples tho. In the case of all of these they don't really impact on the main SL at all and it's rather fun for me having to come up with the interviews etc.