bruises, which considerably lower mood and beauty. They heal away but it takes time (where u not beat the slave). The worse the bruises or traces of beatings, the more time it takes.
(i believe..) u can prevent her from getting bruised by raising ur torture skill
You can also reward with rest (hour/evening), give her massages (if you don't have B+ or higher medical skill, the spa will do it better), and keep her happy, to heal bruises faster. Slave endurance and master/assistant medical skill of course plays a role also.
You could also injure her, depending what weapon you used. She won't rebel again on the same day, though, so you can proceed with punishment, if still appropriate.
if u have a proud or spoiled or dispaired slave: reduce this first.
summer dress and slippers keep her happy somewhat (mood is a factor in obedience)
Wait until she is ready. Awareness and some other aura stat grow over time (and for example by explaining the situation). Dont risk despair by locking her up, letting her sleep on the floor, raping her.
Punish according to her guilt (which should raise taming, habit, fear) and reward according to her merit (which should raise devotion). U can see the strength of punishment and reward by hovering the mouse over the arrow sign on each punishment.
Obedience is a combination of mood, devotion, fear, and to a lesser extent taming, habit, awareness, (and pride? ) and determines if she does what u want or not.
Since u need devotion, u want to create situations where u can reward, which almost always involves her being happy. I dont know u, but im pretty sure u arent happy when u slept on the floor without any food for days. This treatment also influences her health negatively...
Fear will help u at first, u can raise this by punishing... but u need to balance this with mood debuffs from those punishments. They also help lowering pride.
Know what every aura stat does, how u raise and lower it... u can read about this in the wiki.
Proud slaves will refuse anything physical, including sex, maid job, workout, to a greater extent even when they are more obedient.
if u have an unhealthy slave give her good food, supplements and rest, and wait until shes pliable enough for workout, dont stress it.
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there are 2 kinds of rebellion: if u stronger than ur slave she just get bruises and u continue ur punishment... if ur not she will fight u and this can have even deadly consequences... reduce her red hp to 0 and u kill her. Most deadly weapons (sword axe and that stuff) will cause red damage. With a whip or lash or fists u mostly reduce stamina and willpower (green and purple). This still could injure.
im not sure what exactly triggers the combat. Could be ur strenght v hers, aura strength v hers, ur equipment could play a role... even the assistant and her stats. Idk exactly... but it hasnt happend for me in ages.
These are priorities but not necessarily the top priority. A little bit of pride, spoiling or despair isn't the end of the world. High pride will oppose some activities (like housework) but not all. Forcibly lowering pride with punishments may not be worth the side effects, when you can instead let it drop more gradually through positive training. Again, this depends what your training goals are. If she needs to be a maid then maybe you do need to focus on pride... or maybe just buy her a complete maid outfit to get her in the proper mindset.
Spoiling and despair will resolve naturally over time if the causes aren't continuing. Spoiling goes away faster if the slave is unhappy. Despair is the opposite.
These no longer provide a stacking benefit. One is enough.
Rape side effects like despair are easier managed by a skilled master, but rape also quickly raises some obedience factors. Rape can also be used to mindbreak a slave that is very resistant. Mindbroken slaves will do whatever you want, which can be useful for training the master's skills with a disposable slave, although learning will be slow. You can also reverse mindbreak by building up the slave's nature again, although it's a slow process.
You can punish above her guilt if rewarding at her guilt is not effective, just manage the despair resulting from punishment beyond what she thinks she deserves. Punishment below guilt will spoil the slave, so it's usually not advisable, but it might also cheer her up, if you're looking for ways to do that.
Rewarding below merit is fine. Rewarding above merit will spoil.
Too many rewards or punishments on the same day will spoil or increase despair. Letting merit occasionally go unrewarded isn't a big deal. Letting guilt go unpunished is also ok now and then, but less good. It also can be a way to cheer her up, though, especially if she is very fearful.
Yes, and pride. And nature, temperament, intellect. Obedience just determines what she will refuse completely. Other attributes also come into play (both for slave and for master) when deciding whether she will refuse something sexual.
Devotion is usually something that you look to build after she's already D-, although there are shortcuts for skilled masters. Devotion also rises naturally when she is obedient and in a good mood, even if you aren't specifically rewarding her. Of course, keeping her happy is easier with regular rewards.
Sleeping on the floor can be an effective option for healthy slaves that are spoiled or disobedient.
Painful punishments also raise taming. On hard difficulty, only humiliating or disgusting punishments lower pride.
Good advice, but... Wiki is woefully out of date.
Giving fresh food is a treat and will spoil a slave with no devotion. Stick with dehydrated food and add supplements if her health is poor. Also, giving her bigger portions can help a bit if she's unhealthy, but watch her physique.
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- Apr 12, 2021
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Well, I think we may share a different standard, potions make sure you don't die in most occasions, so it's never necessary in testing but a guarantee in the unluckiest situation or when you have done a wrong decision, since arena combat bans potion, so I don't use potion in mist combats' testing with best two-handed weapons, but super attack permitted.
And all combat situations I mention should be a threatening one, with werewolf、huge fiend or champion absolute etc.
Health is usually the min number in three blood numbers, defend recover 10 stamina(green blood), while you don't have an immortal feature, when you defend you lose more red blood, and then you usually have to drink potions, wasting 2 turns doing no damage. Defend can be useful sometimes fighting multiple enemies, but combating with a single strong enemy, it's usually not a good choice.
Facing multiple enemies, the first to do is reduce the nums of enemies, gaining buff rabies、overclocking or marksmanship at the same time, that's the most error-tolerant strategy.
When you're facing a strong enemy, defense is more valuable. I partly agree with you, because of the champion absolute.
I say most threatening combats always ends in 4~5 turns, because they can kill you by the end of 5th turn, when you have 50~60 red blood at most and most elite mist enemies possess over 15 base harm or a super attack with over 20 damage, so attacking is always more valuable. So the 3-turn agility provided by Elven chainmail is very helpful, it saves one turn for you.
But arena combat with champion absolute doesn't suit for this situation, her base harm is 10, so she spends more turns to kill you, even if you don't defend at all, then you finally have more turns for more strategy, yes you can imagine, I tested all five weapon and armor suits in arena fighting her. Red attack is more effective because she may reduce your green and purple damage, and any super attack providing weakness to her is also helpful cause' she is more likely to deal more damage through red attack. It's always better for you to keep at least two buffs among adrenaline, agility and attention.
Ignore this part temporarily, I found in the new version codes that you removed most of the rand() in base harm of weapons.
And I am mistaken in some base harms, later I will give you a more detailed calculation.
Green damage
Any same color damage(2x)
The other colors except the same one(1x)
Details
| Enemy base damage | Elven chainmail 0 enemy harm modifier | Gothic Plate 0 enemy harm modifier | Elven chainmail 1 enemy harm modifier | Gothic Plate 1 enemy harm modifier |
| 10 | (2/3 red or purple)*(10-3) +(1/3 green)*(2 same color/2 agility* 10-3) =7 | (2/3 diff color)*(10-6) +(1/3 same color)*(20-6) =7.33 | (2/3 red or purple)*(20-3) +(1/3)*(2 same color/2 agility*20-3) =17 | (2/3 diff color)*(20-6) +(1/3 same color)*(40-6) =20.67 |
| 20 | (2/3 red or purple)*(20-3) +(1/3 green)*(2 same color/2 agility* 20-3) =17 | (2/3 diff color)*(20-6) +(1/3 same color)*(40-6) =20.67 | (2/3 red or purple)*(40-3) +(1/3 green)*(2 same color/2 agility* 40-3) =37 | (2/3 diff color)*(40-6) +(1/3 same color)*(80-6) =47.33 |
In version 2.0 it does, red and green attackings nearly miss all the time even if you have a 2x bonus, only purple attacking have a good hit rate.
But never mind, it's no matter any more.
Yes, necessary.
I would say, the loan become useless after you succeed to survive, so you only needs the first two level of loan(500 and 1000), the rest useless.
Why do we take a larger loan in real life, to purchase houses、buy cars、do business. And a installment plan is needed as well for it. but most importantly, the benefits should be worthy, it's not saying 'cheaper' than renting for a long time. When you have a large amount of money, you natually won't mind so much on the price–performance ratio. But focus on giving players a feeling that it's worthwhile.
Upgrade my lab can save my clicks nums with simple brewing system(choose your target potion instead of ingredients) and brew a bit more potions? Worthwhile!
Upgrade my boudior to gain a full set of cosmetic, my slave gain moral and instinct faster(extra +1 rate/day)? Worthwhile!
This part of designing can be more unrestrained
Apartment in the Outcasts send you a free barn, and a cheaper rent lab, while one in other towns need you to rent a barn.
Serpentine send you a free dungeon.
Necropolis send you a free music and art room, which give you the access to train an artist.(Value of an artist could be a bit more)
Bull send you a free boudior.
The White Town with all, kind of a free lab and a free fiend pen, and the rent cost less compared to apartment in Bull with all extended rentals, as a reward for achieving noble status.
All of these subject to change.
Reasonable, but changing interior design through the estate office shouldn't influence standard of living.
Do we have this restriction? Where is it in the codes?
And reward for better food, not only in moodlets. A bonus in strength、training diligence and obedience if you can keep eating decilicous food for several days.
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I think not necessary, it may bother more if players have to remind themselves of the durability often.
On the contary, I think it should be a large bag of money. Several months ago I mentioned a designing that, champions fight for their titles, you gain money reward the moment your slave win the arena battle, and if she became Arena Grand Champion, she can win reputation and guild reputation for you everyday, lasting for a decade. and 3 days before next arena day, use a pseudo random number to determine which enemy will she encounter, if she wins again, she gains even more fame(adding every time she succeed in fight her title), if she lose, she won't die, gaining less fame, then fall back to Arena Champion, waiting for next arena day.
Finishing C+ guild contract is a good way and maybe the fastest way to earn money, at least useful for a long time, because it doesn't require moral level and doesn't demand your slave to be master at any skills.
I don't think it's a good idea to reduce that income, but you can remove the low ranked contract after you gain more reputation, for example, provide only B-, B+, A-, A+ contracts if your reputation is A+
Adjust the fame rising speed fit for her rank demands, both in arena fighting and racing. But it shouldn't be slower than her training, cause' milf is not proper for racing, loli for arena either.
Shouldn't be too much before we add more game contents to this part.
In fact, I rarely use Lethe potions, maybe only for Fercility to clear her 5 spoil. Even fear and despair they do benefits for obedience. Most occasions I mention Lethe potion happen when I see players misguided by some old, wrong strategy that Lethe potion is helpful to mind-broken status.
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Unless you are lucky or have post-patrician rewards, I expect to need at least one healing balm in a top-tier mists battle. Those battles shouldn't be won consistently without consumables. If you are seeing that in your testing, then we should make those enemies harder.
Chimaera gem for reduced health damage taken (2.2.1 revised behavior) isn't hard to get, but I do want it to remain optional (make up for its lack with more consumables).
You can start a difficult or multi-way battle with a tonic elixir (gives acceleration, attention) and/or bacchic elixir (removes stiffness, pain, weakness, adds fury, adrenaline, distraction). In a 1vs1 battle, bacchic pairs nicely with gothic plate to remove the stiffness in the first round while also giving other buffs. But, if the enemy uses purple damage, it's a risk. Combining tonic + bacchic (in that order) gives you attention first, so you end up neutral on purple damage taken.
You can also wait to Defend until you are ready to use a green attack, and get the combined benefit of also clearing whatever negative effects the enemy put on you until then.
In most multi-enemy fights, you need two rounds to kill one, so that's two rounds of all of them hitting you. For an attack-first strategy, elven chainmail certainly helps, if one of their attack colors is green. But multi-enemies usually have lower base damage, and gothic plate gives slightly more base damage reduction than chainmail. Considering you are hit multiple times, gothic plate should leave you with more health at the end of the round, unless you are lucky with chainmail and most or all of the enemies picked green damage.
Your analysis makes more sense with the understanding that you're trying to kill them before they kill you, without using potions. But as I mentioned before, that's not really how I expect mists battles to go. For example, you should usually use a balm before your killing blow, to more efficiently minimize injuries. So minimum expectation for a difficult 1vs1 battle would be 5 turns: 2 turns applying attack multipliers, 1 turn using a super attack, 1 turn taking a balm, then 1 turn attacking again to finish.
After the first round, you might be taking double damage from more than one color, so this analysis is only for the first round, correct?
Curious.
As your slaver gains skills it becomes easier to complete contracts quickly, so the risk decreases. But still, if you are careless, you can find yourself with larger bills than expected, or maybe you made a mistake in training and you will need more time to finish a contract. The small loans are a way to bridge an immediate cashflow error. (Taking a guild contract for the prepayment and temporarily putting the new slave in cryo is another.)
On the other side, with large loans as you said, the idea is to take credit against future profits so you can achieve your goals sooner. But unlike reality, there is no escape into bankruptcy; if the player miscalculates and is unable to pay the long loan, it would be a very frustrating dead end. Therefore, I think few players would take such loans. That's why I'm thinking to make them all shorter, so the potential loss from miscalculation is a smaller amount of playing time.
I was thinking along similar lines. Already in 2.2.1, we have some of the homes giving you certain rentals for free. (Included, really.) The music and art room doesn't exist, currently, so we'd have to think more about that one. What would it do, functionally? You wouldn't be able to teach those lessons without the space for the musical instruments and art supplies? Seems like you could have some instruments and art supplies without a dedicated room, but maybe we should require special supplies to train above B+ in music and painting (and dance?) at home. Need to think if school still should be allowed to train to S+.
Not change it, but it might limit it. However, at the moment we are only allowing you to raise living standard by one level above the "natural" level of whichever apartment you choose. So for example, Necropolis can reach Luxurious but the "natural" level is Respectable. Purchasing better decor could be made a prerequisite to select the upper living standard.
Look in #options for colosseum "battle" button.
Currently (2.2.1), eating S+ food can raise master strength to A+. Eating B+ or better quality food is necessary to avoid losing strength.
Food ingredients are for the master's meals, not for the slaves. They eat pet food and maybe occasional table scraps from the master if they are good slaves. The "fresh" food diet for slaves is still pet food, not what you buy from the grocery.
Fair enough.
In 2.2.1 it's currently a maximum of 150 sparks. Overall, I'm thinking that we want the cost of living to exceed what you can earn from arena events every decade, so that you either need to sell slaves or live in the slums. Raising the cost of rentals will accomplish that.
On the other hand, should living in the slums without selling slaves be possible? If not, that puts a fairly low limit on arena rewards at least for the early game, as with a single arena champion and a racing champion you can reliably earn 150-300 sparks while living expenses in the slums usually will be less than 100 sparks. Maybe we need to increase the cost of living in the slums. Protection money (bribes) to local gangs to leave you alone?
One thing we decided not to do is scale up racing rewards for consecutive wins. Because we didn't want to create a situation where switching which slave you use for races would lose you a lot of potential earnings.
C+ requires 1 devotion and at least one mastered sex skill category for the slave.
C- needs no devotion, just enough obedience, skills and attributes. It does need some sex experience, but many young and mature slaves are generated with enough experience to qualify.
I don't think we should remove the low ranked contracts entirely, but maybe a speed bonus should only be given if you are completing contracts at your guild reputation level or higher. That would make the lower contracts less valuable but not worthless.
How long does it take you to train an S+ slave? Felicity challenge gives you 120 days, so it's achievable within that if the slave has high enough attributes. I think achieving Legendary fame should take longer than 120 days / 12 decades. I've come up with a formula that puts it at 19 battles for a slave starting with no fame, while also having sensible alignment for early fame (D- "rumored" after 3rd arena win, C- "recognized" after arena champion battle).
I'm waiting for Pianocat's input on the barn as most of it is his design.
Right. For Felicity I prefer to just train her and get rid of the spoiling "naturally." A fully skilled master has plenty of tools for dealing with a spoiled brat. In fact, I feel that Felicity isn't challenging enough. Maybe we should make her harder by adding some interesting traits...
does leather shackles still increase taming? I know you guys changed it to increase sex training but noticed that it doesn't decrease the mood anymore so I was just wondering if it only increases sex training now
If anyone is interested in playtesting some experimental changes, the latest master-ia(-patch) branches have been updated with the following changes:
These are numbered so please refer to them by number instead of quoting them if you want to comment or ask questions. At a high level, we can summarize the intention of the experimental changes as follows:
A. make it slightly easier to motivate slaves in the disobedient phase
B. slow down progression of fame and reputation for slaves and master
C. reduce income sources that don't involve progression in the core gameplay loop (slave acquisition, training and conversion into resources) such as arena battles and farming low-level guild contracts
D. increase value of higher ranked slaves so there is more incentive to invest the effort to train them
E. eliminate very long loans so you need to be strategic and can't simply use them to skip the resource scarcity period
F. increase per decade costs and differentiate the residences more so that there are compelling reasons to move around and keeping your cashflow positive becomes a long term management challenge instead of a solved problem after the first couple of slaves (starting out in the slums instead of immediately moving to one of the districts is probably an optimal strategy now unless you're doing a custom start with lots of advantages; also, renting an apartment to get Isabella and then returning it will now properly cost you a decade's rent)
G. make living in the slums forever an even less attractive option to encourage not just moving out temporarily but actually staying out if at all possible
H. tweak progression of master personality attribute so it doesn't simply track another attribute (reputation) but instead requires some investment and/or effort to develop
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These are numbered so please refer to them by number instead of quoting them if you want to comment or ask questions. At a high level, we can summarize the intention of the experimental changes as follows:
A. make it slightly easier to motivate slaves in the disobedient phase
B. slow down progression of fame and reputation for slaves and master
C. reduce income sources that don't involve progression in the core gameplay loop (slave acquisition, training and conversion into resources) such as arena battles and farming low-level guild contracts
D. increase value of higher ranked slaves so there is more incentive to invest the effort to train them
E. eliminate very long loans so you need to be strategic and can't simply use them to skip the resource scarcity period
F. increase per decade costs and differentiate the residences more so that there are compelling reasons to move around and keeping your cashflow positive becomes a long term management challenge instead of a solved problem after the first couple of slaves (starting out in the slums instead of immediately moving to one of the districts is probably an optimal strategy now unless you're doing a custom start with lots of advantages; also, renting an apartment to get Isabella and then returning it will now properly cost you a decade's rent)
G. make living in the slums forever an even less attractive option to encourage not just moving out temporarily but actually staying out if at all possible
H. tweak progression of master personality attribute so it doesn't simply track another attribute (reputation) but instead requires some investment and/or effort to develop
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are u playing 2.2.1? cuz in 2.2 the mood buff from clothes and shoes is stacking
i would never give the advice to mindbreak the slaves for newbies who dont know what they are doing.
It takes a long time to fix that.
Devotion is only built by appropriate reward at level, and it very useful, even early on. Since the first level of devotion (and the second) is very easily obtainable (only 10 and 20 points) theres no reason not to go for it. Despair is a harsh mistress and reduces nature quickly, while capping mood. Nature is one of the very hard to raise stats thats influential in price of a slave. High pride slaves take much longer to accept sexual training and training that would reduce pride like the maid job. Theres no reason not to use punishments. If done right punishment has basically no drawbacks and many advantages, like training ur slaver skills, increasing taming (as u said), increasing awareness, increasing fear (which might be one of the best contributors to obedience). Just need to manage mood a bit. Gradual depletion of high pride takes ages.
I'm playing 2.2.2 now (see post above describing experimental changes). But my comments were about 2.2.1.
A mindbroken slave can rank as high as C-, and the guild will accept them for contracts (or to the subpurchaser). Also, they are easy to train. Just slow. The tricky part can be getting the slave mindbroken without them first attacking you or committing suicide. Mostly I'm trying to point out that mindbreak isn't a bad thing to avoid at all costs, it's just a thing that can happen ... and also un-happen, if you need it to.
How do you "go for it"? My point was that it will happen naturally soon enough if you're keeping the slave happy once they become obedient. Specific rewards can speed it up a bit, but mostly the rewards that do that are the "intimate" ones that the slave won't accept before they are obedient. I usually think of the beginning of the game as a low-skill situation, but of course there are many possible advantages you can start with. As the master gains skills, more approaches become viable.
It's not that hard to raise nature. Martial arts lessons, sparring at the arena, "time off" rewards that give the slave a chance to interact with others, winning arena battles, sleeping in a boudoir, it even increases when the slave refuses orders or breaks rules. If trying to recover mindbreak, arena sparring or martial arts lessons are a good place to start the process.
I wouldn't say pride makes it take "much" longer for maid training. It's just 1 point of obedience. It just means that it probably won't be one of the first things they're willing to do. As for sex training, you can work around high pride by making the slaver more alluring, raising the slave's arousal and dressing them appropriately. It's totally possible to do sex training with a high pride slave if you stack the other factors in your favor. And once you're doing sex training, pride falls quickly.
I'm not saying don't use punishments. Of course, punishments are a great tool if used correctly. At the same time, they're not the only way to be successful, and sometimes a softer touch is needed, even if it takes longer. For example, if your master tries using physical punishments and ends up in a fight, that could be a game-over situation depending how capable the master is. So, there's multiple ways to play.
I found a small bug revealed by my attempt to adjust the guild contract timings. They were not actually being used in the calculation for the guild contract turn-in, so you'd be considered late if you were past the 2.2.1 timings and in the extra time allowance that I added. Now fixed.
New zero start with 2.2.2 experimental build. Day 37, just turned in a C- mature assistant for the first D- guild contract offered. 77$ sparks remaining after repaying 600$ loan. Playing Johny. She started with S+ intellect, S+ empathy, B+ nature, B+ temperament, S+ pride (unashamed), and was Feeble, so I had to build up her endurance first. Building her obedience was going very slow, I got her to be willing to do just about everything in the common skills but she was stubbornly stuck at F- rating and getting her mood up was a constant struggle, so finally I just took some faerie pollen and raped her several times (after buying an Aketon and training against unarmed slaves at the colosseum so I could beat her in a fight). She jumped from F- to C- in one day with the repeated rapes, but the despair it caused made her quality bonus negative when I turned her in, and made her suicidal if I ended the day. Instead of trying to fix her, although I still had 12 days on the loan, I just turned her in. Let's see how it goes with less starting sparks but a few master skills developed (C- strength, D- dominance, C- fighter [with Aketon], D- whip skill).
I tried this. Have to I change a gif name to PNG? I tried to convert gif to png and even animated png. It does find the png but only one image not all the images that are in the gif / animated png hence there is no movement. Am I missing something?
hj_general_young_2.png is an example of an animated image currently in the game. It's in content\pic\girls\sex_scenes. If you open that image file in a browser, it animates.