QSP Jack-o-Nine-Tails [v2.3] [ImperatorAugustusTertius / qwertyu12359]
Been playing this a lot. Never really understood how to play, but toughed it out and got through the learning curve. Have a lot of feedback, but I'll break it into categories from least to most controversial in my opinion.
Least
- There's a lack of feedback for slaver skill increases. We need a number, plus sign, progress bar, or some kind of indicator to suggest when an improvement is made, because I have no idea what "A+" outcome is in training.
- When a slave is over-rewarded when some merit exists, the game treats it as if you've just given her a reward without her earning it at all. If I give a two merit slave a trip to the beach [3 merit], she gets a full rank of spoiling. This feels excessively harsh and illogical. Just subtract the merit earned from the total.
Moderate
The early game, especially in the slums, is really rough. The difficulty in this game is front-loaded, and it would be nice if the beginning could be made easier, and the later sections more difficult. I don't know how to fix mid to late game difficulty, but I can make some suggestions for the beginning regarding the slums.
- A lot of the slaver's mood penalties should be negated while he lives in the slums. This is the absolute bottom. A slaver whining about how he has to do the cleaning, or that he's horny and he can't bang a slave, doesn't make much sense considering his circumstances. A flat mood penalty, or a cap to mood, would make more sense, but the cleanliness/horniness/living standards/SECRETARY/personal effort penalties to mood are excessive. Suck it up Johny, and my god its not THAT hard to figure out how food bills work when its the only bill you have.
- It'd be nice if the slums came with a free fiend cage. If there's a logical place where one would be, it would be here. Would cut down on food costs in the long term with enough setup, and could eventually be used to get the raven crown, which starting players in particular could really use.
Controversial
In trainer games where the trainer can be permanently improved, I find that the best games minimize maintenance and road blocks to trainer progress. Its fine to require effort to improve, but things like skill/stat decreases for what's supposed to be permanent improvements, are tedious and effectively exist to pad out play time, even if this isn't the intent.
- Remove all stat losses for the trainer, outside of drug use. No more requiring S rank food just to maintain S rank strength and so on. Derived stats like Allure can be left alone.
- No penalties to stats or skills just for choosing a particular character. Different starting skills or stats, or unique mechanics are fine, but your ability to improve strength or whatever shouldn't be impacted because you chose Johny.
- Related actions should always improve the skill or stat, even if only a little. Drop the A+ requirement for skill gains for example, as it absolutely sucks to get no improvement at all in the beginning because everyone is miserable.
- Don't punish the player for having high stats. Its messed up that because Johny can't figure out how to masturbate, he's punished for having a high libido stat with mood issues until he finds a [slave] girlfriend.
Least
- There's a lack of feedback for slaver skill increases. We need a number, plus sign, progress bar, or some kind of indicator to suggest when an improvement is made, because I have no idea what "A+" outcome is in training.
- When a slave is over-rewarded when some merit exists, the game treats it as if you've just given her a reward without her earning it at all. If I give a two merit slave a trip to the beach [3 merit], she gets a full rank of spoiling. This feels excessively harsh and illogical. Just subtract the merit earned from the total.
Moderate
The early game, especially in the slums, is really rough. The difficulty in this game is front-loaded, and it would be nice if the beginning could be made easier, and the later sections more difficult. I don't know how to fix mid to late game difficulty, but I can make some suggestions for the beginning regarding the slums.
- A lot of the slaver's mood penalties should be negated while he lives in the slums. This is the absolute bottom. A slaver whining about how he has to do the cleaning, or that he's horny and he can't bang a slave, doesn't make much sense considering his circumstances. A flat mood penalty, or a cap to mood, would make more sense, but the cleanliness/horniness/living standards/SECRETARY/personal effort penalties to mood are excessive. Suck it up Johny, and my god its not THAT hard to figure out how food bills work when its the only bill you have.
- It'd be nice if the slums came with a free fiend cage. If there's a logical place where one would be, it would be here. Would cut down on food costs in the long term with enough setup, and could eventually be used to get the raven crown, which starting players in particular could really use.
Controversial
In trainer games where the trainer can be permanently improved, I find that the best games minimize maintenance and road blocks to trainer progress. Its fine to require effort to improve, but things like skill/stat decreases for what's supposed to be permanent improvements, are tedious and effectively exist to pad out play time, even if this isn't the intent.
- Remove all stat losses for the trainer, outside of drug use. No more requiring S rank food just to maintain S rank strength and so on. Derived stats like Allure can be left alone.
- No penalties to stats or skills just for choosing a particular character. Different starting skills or stats, or unique mechanics are fine, but your ability to improve strength or whatever shouldn't be impacted because you chose Johny.
- Related actions should always improve the skill or stat, even if only a little. Drop the A+ requirement for skill gains for example, as it absolutely sucks to get no improvement at all in the beginning because everyone is miserable.
- Don't punish the player for having high stats. Its messed up that because Johny can't figure out how to masturbate, he's punished for having a high libido stat with mood issues until he finds a [slave] girlfriend.
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- Jan 2, 2023
- 75
- 53
That`s the answer: Johny is about "skill grind" from bottom of city to the most richest places. From "14 years nerd with 100TB of hentai before meeting truck-kun" to "youngest SSS rank slaver".
I can confirm that I for one pick Johnny because I want to start with nothing and end up building to the best in the game, and have earned it because just surviving at first was hell.
Have you updated to the dev version? https://f95zone.to/threads/jack-o-n...ugustustertius-qwertyu12359.390/post-14806958
Slaver skill tooltips were added. The text displayed at the end of a lesson describes how it went.
The formulas for spoil gained when rewarded above merit differ from one reward to the next, but generally the more obedient the slave, and the less fearful, the more it spoils them, and vice versa. Gaining a level of spoiling causes the slave to generate more merit so there's a benefit in exchange for the hit to obedience. As long as your training methods don't cause her spoiling to rise uncontrollably it's not cause for concern.
Some of the slaver mood penalties only kick in with higher rep/personality, but living in the slums is supposed to be terrible. In story mode Johny has access to an apartment from day 1, and if he takes a loan he can make it work. Try alcohol and drugs to raise slaver mood if you care. Johny is a terrible teacher of anything non-fetish so very inefficient to do the training. His shitty mood further reducing efficiency of training is therefore mostly irrelevant in early game. He is miserable, so what? He can also attend colosseum events (audience only) for a mood buff, and use the brothel to manage his libido (bonus: raises strength).
Fiends grow big and need a secure enclosure. The slums are not overflowing with free space (the opposite).
In JONT if you use the resources available you can get up to 24+ actions in a single day for the slaver, 12+ for a slave. With task-appropriate bonuses applied the efficiency is maximized and you can make very fast progress. The game rewards investment and knowledge with better results. When you lack funds you are constrained but you can take loans to bootstrap that problem too. The early game is best viewed as "get out of slums / get to stable cashflow while relying on school / tutors" phase, once you can do that then it moves to "increase income using tools available in apartment: train more slaves in parallel, build obedience faster, supplement income using barn, reduce food costs with fiend, etc" and that's the point where you have the luxury of investment more into the slaver's progression. If you prioritize leveling up the slaver while living in the slums, you are taking the masochist's route.
Prior to this version we usually saw slavers going from zero to S+ in skills in a few hundred days. The intention is to make "master of all" progression take longer, so that the skills your slaver had at the start have more weight on your choices. Being S+ in everything isn't required to achieve the "win" condition (becoming a patrician) and gives a goal to work towards after that if you didn't achieve it by then.
Stat decay is gone in dev version. A+/S+ medical skill for assistant allows lower quality food to maintain slaver strength.
Without the A+ requirement it would be optimal to make the slave perform poorly so it takes her longer to level up so you maximize skill ups for the slaver.
Johny's high libido allows him to "perform" more times at the brothel so he can powerlevel his strength in the early game. Or if he is abstinent, it gives him more time to find his perfect waifu before erectile dysfunction kicks in. The slaver is the only trainer for sex skills which are required for higher slave value. Rape is also an option, so "waiting" is a roleplay/gameplay choice.
I don't understand the feature with compensation for food quality due to the nurse skill of the assistant. My strength is B+, the nurse skill of the assistant is A+. Does this mean that I only need to eat C- food? If I eat shawarma (C-), and turn off auto-cooking of food, my character tries to cook food, which he also gets a C- rating, and his strength rate drops by 1. Although it seems that the drop in strength is not due to the quality of the food, but due to excess action.
Bought Wilhelmine. Jesus just get to one point of devotion took me long enough. LoL how much traits does she have? List of traits gotten squised!
Frigid trait kinda harsh.
Frigid trait kinda harsh.
you can replace frigid with nymphomania by making her cum 100 times(?). back then, i did it by throwing her at tentacle beast over and over and over, that thing is insane, at max level she can cum even with 0 arousal like wtf.
but the optimal strategy i found out is just using active sex and making her cum to cap(5 times?) per day then use the remaining energy by using tentacle beast.
that is if you planning to sell her, because frigid actually debuff her price but imo being frigid is not bad if you are planning to make her assistant like, assistant is prone to mood swing because of arousal and hygiene, being constantly at 0 arousal remove 1 of the variable entirely making her mood much more stable and lower the chance of her making mediocre B+ than the usual S+ food seemingly out of nowhere.
- May 30, 2018
- 98
- 69
does prince need fame? cuz its the only thing i didnt have despite the slave being S+ and S+ in Stye/Beauty
"Slaver skill tooltips were added. The text displayed at the end of a lesson describes how it went."
Cool.
"The formulas for spoil gained..."
Spoiling is mostly a negative. Giving undeserved rewards also impacts other aura stats. I'm saying the code is wonky for giving slaves higher merit then they deserve. Sometimes you just want to get them the teddy bear without getting slammed by excessive hits to the aura.
"...living in the slums is supposed to be terrible..."
It is, there's no running water and that alone drives me crazy.
That said, the point was the slums are the fallback option for players who over-extended and are on the verge of bankruptcy, as well as the starting point for several characters. The game should accommodate multiple playstyles and circumstances, not every player is going to know the efficient way to do things so there needs to be some room for failure and less effective play.
Making things a bit easier in the slums isn't going to make everyone rush to play there, but it can help make it a good base until the player accumulates enough money, stats, and future barn slaves to reasonably get out of there. Rent kills games if you don't know what you're doing.
"The slums are not overflowing with free space..."
Neither is the anthill, yet it has space for every rental in the game. We have slum smugglers who trade in fiends, its not that much of a stretch that the home your slaver found had space for a cage, considering it doesn't have room for any other rental.
"...The early game is best viewed as "get out of slums / get to stable cashflow while relying on school / tutors" phase..."
That's not how I view it at all. Tutors are expensive, there's no school to train slaver skills (...right?), so when there is little money, you need to grab cheap/contracted slaves to turn around quickly (D- or D+) while paying low costs. The slums is perfect for that. Its a low cost training area in other words.
In my play style, the biggest benefit of the anthill is the barn, so until you advance enough to get a farm hand and "hen" in storage, solving the cash flow problem issue permanently (until you want to boost personality), there's not much point to moving into any apartment besides the luxury of water.
The move out into the apartment right away play style is fine for those folks who don't mind dealing with the tighter money clock, but I don't like to min max every turn that much, and I imagine I'm not the only one.
"Without the A+ requirement it would be optimal to make the slave perform poorly so it takes her longer to level up so you maximize skill ups for the slaver."
The player is incentivized to sell all slaves besides his assistant and barn "animals" as soon as he meets his goal (usually rank/specialization), so he can grab another slave and start training it. If you boost the speed of skill gain of A+ outcomes it comes back to being the optimal way to train again even ignoring the incentive I mentioned, while being less harsh on new players. I'm fine with it taking a while to raise the skills, but it doesn't feel good when the player doesn't get rewarded for his effort.
something is weird with the new spoil calculation?
normal diff, slave got 1 erotic reward every day and still somehow is spoiled? even tho it was only petting (4) for 5 merits
normal diff, slave got 1 erotic reward every day and still somehow is spoiled? even tho it was only petting (4) for 5 merits
Spoiled slaves feel more merit and less guilt, and devoted/fearful/unhappy slaves lose spoil faster. It's designed to self-correct from occasional above-merit rewards. It starts to lower other aura stats only at higher levels of spoil and even then may be countered by the benefits of higher merit allowing for more effective rewards. The offset to obedience is minor, not enough to prevent training.
There's already a lot of room for less effective play. Rent for normal game difficulty in outcasts / serpentine is 62$ / 75$. Standard of living costs up to 30$ / 60$. Living in an apartment gives you access to a free assistant (Isabella) to reduce training costs. Access to a bath removes 20-50$ of hygiene maintenance costs. Living in the slums can be more expensive in practice due to incidental costs and less efficient training. Loans provide extra time when needed.
The serpentine district is an entire quadrant of the city, much larger than the slums. It has very high population density which is why space is at a premium.
Milking a fiend has a high sexual obedience threshold. If a slaver has a slave or assistant at that level, they are capable of covering rental costs.
Fiends cost 100$ (or an unlucky slave) to acquire. If the slaver is stuck in the slums due to financial constraints, how will he afford that? How long will it take for that investment to pay for itself? Dehydrated food for a slave costs 0.33$ per calorie, which is 19$ per decade for a B+ Healthy slave. So buying a fiend breaks even for one slave at 52 days (or more).
There is no cryostorage in the slums. Where to keep the excess production?
There's a school to train slave skills. Most slavers are not teachers, which means that any cost savings from personal training vs. paying for better teachers are likely offset by extended training time with implicit maintenance costs. If you are working on an appropriately-leveled guild contract, each day is worth 10$ in speed bonus or late penalty. As I said earlier, staying in the slums when you have an alternative is the masochist route. You'll have an easier time if you rent and take a loan if you need one (obviously not until you need one, to maximize time).
Granted, staying in the slums may cost less if you don't maintain hygiene or the slaver's strength, but you're trading slower / more expensive progression for the luxury of marginally lower financial pressure if you avoid spending to compensate for what the slums lack. Supplementing income with arena winnings works just as well in an apartment to reduce financial pressure.
What effort? Mediocre training results do not merit a reward for the slaver. Achieving A+ outcomes isn't hard once the slave is obedient.
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In the past, I could see numerical stats through auspex. Now, even though I'm at A+ in magic with the robes, UI can't see the numerical stats. Why is this?