- Jul 2, 2020
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- Thread starter stoper
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- Apr 19, 2018
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Upps, late reply. Used this as an excuse to find some time and do a nice slow replay of the whole game to make sure I was characterizing shit correctly.
But for the record, some are. And some aren't. Just as there are vast differences within a sex. Big ol' world out there filled with people of all kinds of dispositions and attitudes (even if various cultural factors sadly shepherd many of us toward certain commonalities, women usually getting the shorter end of that stick). No one but the characters/people themselves gets to decide what's valid for them, and certainly not based on things like gender or orientation. This... sounds like MRA gender essentialist rhetoric or something.
Anyway, you say, “Female characters combine the perception of safety and care with the possibility of sexual attraction and exploration” What about BDSM? A perception of safety and care is certainly not the basis for this sexual fetish that has been found to be very popular among women. This just being one example that invalidates this sweeping, absolute declaration you’re making about human psychology. And, "A safe and caring male character would not be someone a woman would find sexually exciting or adventurous". But that is exactly Mr. Parker, who Jessica absolutely finds adventurous and sexually exciting. Also, “a combination that is very difficult to reproduce credibly in male characters.” Even if that were true about the real world, it’s as easy as writing it down when you’re telling a story. Which Stoper has already done with his characters.
Speaking of storytelling structures, few are more common than people that break conventional wisdoms. Especially negative ones like women having to feel vulnerable.
For example, by the time of the scene with Mr. Parker in his car after the night out, Jessica and him have already developed a sexual history and a high degree of sexual tension in just the events of the game itself. And yet, she barely manages to go as far as she does. Jessica's feelings for Parker are nothing but positive, up to and including feeling safety and trust with him, and certainly attraction and arousal.
Now lets contrast this to her actions with Heather. Jessica goes from thinking "Heather and Christian are sweet, but they both give me funny looks every time i talk to them" to make out sessions and handjobs with Heather, like, literally an hour later in terms of time spent together. And sex practically immediately after that. And then some more later. From oblivious non-interest and slight discomfort -- less comfortable than where she started with Parker -- to fucking, real quick. Talk about 'easily emotionally manipulable'.
And it's not like she had some unique thrill with Heather and wasn't also enjoying herself in every interaction with men either. She simply chooses to stop herself with men, to deny a good time. Not so with Heather. And it's getting a bit tired. Why would this double standard exist in the first place? You'll probably favor some explanation about how women feel less threatening, but Jessica has been having a good time with men she is comfortable with and only cuts it short out of duty or for some practical reason like an interruption, so any such arguments are going to be far from persuasive.
So why? I feel like fetishizing lesbianism for heterosexual audience is at least part of it, which is also where or at least one of the places the whole idea of "women don't count" comes from and why i believe it's likely happening at least a little bit in the case of this game.
You say "You want a girl that's a cock gobbler by update 0.2?", but no, not at all. That is practically what we got however, just substitute the 2nd update for the 3rd and 4th and cock gobbling with lesbian cheating. What i actually want - and have only been having frustrations about over the most recent updates - is for the story to have at least half as much efficiency in producing enthusiastic heterosexual content as it does lesbian content. Which is, again, easily achievable with no sacrifices of quality, atmosphere or realism.
Stoper has frequently said this won't develop into a game Where jessica sleeps with whole town at 3 people per update, and i'm completely fine with that. That is not at all what the complaint is, so please do not characterize it as such.
Finally, the main point here is that your reasoning for why characters should act is certain ways, regardless of it's very debatable validity, is completely irrelevant because the way in which characters should act is entirely based on their personality, circumstances and context. And in a fictional work where personalities, circumstances and context are whatever the author wants them to be, naturally occurring content of any type can be brought to bear. But certain types of content are being favored as a conscious choice for no good reason.
(Other than that's simply what Stoper wants to do of course, which is already granted)
Jessica starts with a nature that indicates no inclination for lesbian interest, and you can go through the story keeping it that way. Regardless of what happens to or around her or if she chooses to remain faithful or cheat or stick to grinding at work or use some sex appeal also or hell move to the country and become a farm girl, her nature remains unchanged. So the nature of her character is by default heterosexual. That was the point.
Please accept my apologies, because... much of this section reads kind of crazy and reductive to me? And talking right past the issues i was raising? I never said male and female characters are the same in the sense you're implying, for instance.
But for the record, some are. And some aren't. Just as there are vast differences within a sex. Big ol' world out there filled with people of all kinds of dispositions and attitudes (even if various cultural factors sadly shepherd many of us toward certain commonalities, women usually getting the shorter end of that stick). No one but the characters/people themselves gets to decide what's valid for them, and certainly not based on things like gender or orientation. This... sounds like MRA gender essentialist rhetoric or something.
Anyway, you say, “Female characters combine the perception of safety and care with the possibility of sexual attraction and exploration” What about BDSM? A perception of safety and care is certainly not the basis for this sexual fetish that has been found to be very popular among women. This just being one example that invalidates this sweeping, absolute declaration you’re making about human psychology. And, "A safe and caring male character would not be someone a woman would find sexually exciting or adventurous". But that is exactly Mr. Parker, who Jessica absolutely finds adventurous and sexually exciting. Also, “a combination that is very difficult to reproduce credibly in male characters.” Even if that were true about the real world, it’s as easy as writing it down when you’re telling a story. Which Stoper has already done with his characters.
Speaking of storytelling structures, few are more common than people that break conventional wisdoms. Especially negative ones like women having to feel vulnerable.
I feel like we're finally getting to the heart of the issues i was raising, which is the imbalanced structure Stoper has chosen to this point. More drastic structure changes of one kind or another, as you suggest, is one valid approach. But it is not necessary.
For example, by the time of the scene with Mr. Parker in his car after the night out, Jessica and him have already developed a sexual history and a high degree of sexual tension in just the events of the game itself. And yet, she barely manages to go as far as she does. Jessica's feelings for Parker are nothing but positive, up to and including feeling safety and trust with him, and certainly attraction and arousal.
Now lets contrast this to her actions with Heather. Jessica goes from thinking "Heather and Christian are sweet, but they both give me funny looks every time i talk to them" to make out sessions and handjobs with Heather, like, literally an hour later in terms of time spent together. And sex practically immediately after that. And then some more later. From oblivious non-interest and slight discomfort -- less comfortable than where she started with Parker -- to fucking, real quick. Talk about 'easily emotionally manipulable'.
And it's not like she had some unique thrill with Heather and wasn't also enjoying herself in every interaction with men either. She simply chooses to stop herself with men, to deny a good time. Not so with Heather. And it's getting a bit tired. Why would this double standard exist in the first place? You'll probably favor some explanation about how women feel less threatening, but Jessica has been having a good time with men she is comfortable with and only cuts it short out of duty or for some practical reason like an interruption, so any such arguments are going to be far from persuasive.
So why? I feel like fetishizing lesbianism for heterosexual audience is at least part of it, which is also where or at least one of the places the whole idea of "women don't count" comes from and why i believe it's likely happening at least a little bit in the case of this game.
You say "You want a girl that's a cock gobbler by update 0.2?", but no, not at all. That is practically what we got however, just substitute the 2nd update for the 3rd and 4th and cock gobbling with lesbian cheating. What i actually want - and have only been having frustrations about over the most recent updates - is for the story to have at least half as much efficiency in producing enthusiastic heterosexual content as it does lesbian content. Which is, again, easily achievable with no sacrifices of quality, atmosphere or realism.
Stoper has frequently said this won't develop into a game Where jessica sleeps with whole town at 3 people per update, and i'm completely fine with that. That is not at all what the complaint is, so please do not characterize it as such.
Finally, the main point here is that your reasoning for why characters should act is certain ways, regardless of it's very debatable validity, is completely irrelevant because the way in which characters should act is entirely based on their personality, circumstances and context. And in a fictional work where personalities, circumstances and context are whatever the author wants them to be, naturally occurring content of any type can be brought to bear. But certain types of content are being favored as a conscious choice for no good reason.
(Other than that's simply what Stoper wants to do of course, which is already granted)
You're conflating circumstances and events with personal nature. Perhaps only because i wasn't clear enough to begin with.
Jessica starts with a nature that indicates no inclination for lesbian interest, and you can go through the story keeping it that way. Regardless of what happens to or around her or if she chooses to remain faithful or cheat or stick to grinding at work or use some sex appeal also or hell move to the country and become a farm girl, her nature remains unchanged. So the nature of her character is by default heterosexual. That was the point.
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- Jun 30, 2018
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- Jul 17, 2019
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wait, in a few days the complete 0.35 was coming.
- Jul 17, 2019
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in my opinion, eve was initially a boy, then stoper changed his mindI hope of lewd stuff with this french hottie! Maybe "seductive" is a hint for it
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- Apr 19, 2018
- 570
- 934
Why do you say?
It's funny because Eve's name was originally Yves in the first update (or first couple?), which is a masculine name. Apparently she had the odd name for some specific reason IIRC, but it was changed cause people kept noticing and pointing it out.
- Jul 17, 2019
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right, perhaps stoper had thought of a trap then changed his mind; it wouldn't be bad, it wouldn't bother me but it would be too much for the story, and we should see what the fans would think of it. for example in summertime saga there is and it's called eve also there
- Apr 6, 2018
- 1,006
- 358
Still no, "cucking" action with the husband? Oh boy. Jessica and her mom could be a good cuckoldress for husband
I really thought we'd be able to go all the way with Mr. Parker in the car, such a shame. There's a slow build up and then there's a flat out cockblock from the dev. Mr. Parker should've porked her in his car IMO.
- Mar 14, 2020
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Why is this taking so long, if anyone doesn't mind me asking? As far as I see, the last update was almost months ago
- Jul 17, 2019
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there were hardware problems 2 times, plus his helper was out for a few days. the final scene of the beta version is currently ending maybe for the weekend the 0.35 will be complete.
- Dec 13, 2018
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- Jul 17, 2019
- 5,391
- 12,862
- Jul 17, 2019
- 5,391
- 12,862
- Dec 13, 2018
- 7,748
- 19,529
For some, reading seems to relative.for some, time is relative, brother
from what all im reading from people and what ive played is that there is clear favoritism with lesbian vs hetero and of course everyone's personal opinion on what they want. But anyway great story and graphics and of course i myself prefer mr. parker because alot of the games ive played dont havent development between two chars like that in any other game but the lesbian content you can find in almost every game on this site.