VN Ren'Py Jessica O'Neil's Hard News [v0.60] [stoperArt]

[Maviarab]

I just don't understand how so many devs are so horrendously bad at estimating release dates for these things.

I've never built a house before, so if you were to ask me for a completion date the day before I start building my first house - I could give you an estimate and it'd probably be way off.
But if I'd already built Seven houses and you asked me to estimate a completion date for the Eighth, and my estimate is still way off - you'd be forgiven for thinking I'm a fucking moron.

Sure the artistic process has hidden depths of meaning and multi-faceted emotions, blah blah blah - Stoper isn't painting with all the colours of the wind here, he's telling a story with a combination of dialogue, images and animations. He should know roughly how long it takes to write, stage, pose, render, animate and code - yet this update has been 'one or two weeks away' for a month and a half.

We all enjoy the game, the renders, the writing - I don't even mind if it takes a while.
Just want to see these updates be a little more bloody punctual.

And if you worked a job and built that house part time for the enjoyment of it? Still give an estimate? Chances of missing that estimate? I say this a lot, get a lot of facepalms (not that they bother me)....but ultimately,...if you're not giving him money, he owes you nothing, you're entitled to nothing so what's the damn prolem with how long it takes? No one forcing anyone to wait for it.

If you are a patreon and have an issue with him...stop giving him money. Not rocket science is it (nor do you need a degree to figure this shit out) unless you're self-entitled and think you deserve something you don't.

This post is for every little whiner who complains about the time/delays.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

And if you worked a job and built that house part time for the enjoyment of it? Still give an estimate? Chances of missing that estimate? I say this a lot, get a lot of facepalms (not that they bother me)....but ultimately,...if you're not giving him money, he owes you nothing, you're entitled to nothing so what's the damn prolem with how long it takes? No one forcing anyone to wait for it.

If you are a patreon and have an issue with him...stop giving him money. Not rocket science is it (nor do you need a degree to figure this shit out) unless you're self-entitled and think you deserve something you don't.

This post is for every little whiner who complains about the time/delays.

So by your judgement it isn't even worth discussing? That he's beyond criticism? This is a forum to discuss games, I don't see any reason why people shouldn't express their frustration.

It's also worth noting that this forum acts as a great advertisement for people's work. I've discovered many new games from this forum that I have gone on to support. But that advertisement is a double edge sword. I would love to support JOHN, but with the terrible development cycles I can't justify it. That is feedback that the Stoper needs to hear, because there's no other way for him to hear it if his Patreon is the only way he receives feedback. He needs to know that he's leaving money on the table. I understand that JOHN "isn't about the money" for him, but that doesn't mean that leaving money on the table is something he would be happy to hear.

Lastly, if it's accurate that there was only one update in 2020, that is absolutely worth discussing and criticizing. If there weren't a laundry list of devs who had development periods stretch out to six months+, a year+, etc, only to ultimately abandon the product, maybe you'd have a point. Are the people who supported Dual Family not allowed to criticize the dev even though he's 2 year's overdue and just decided to relaunch the whole game? When is the cutoff point when criticism for a development cycle isn't warranted?

 

[pmano]

I just don't understand how so many devs are so horrendously bad at estimating release dates for these things.

I've never built a house before, so if you were to ask me for a completion date the day before I start building my first house - I could give you an estimate and it'd probably be way off.
But if I'd already built Seven houses and you asked me to estimate a completion date for the Eighth, and my estimate is still way off - you'd be forgiven for thinking I'm a fucking moron.

Sure the artistic process has hidden depths of meaning and multi-faceted emotions, blah blah blah - Stoper isn't painting with all the colours of the wind here, he's telling a story with a combination of dialogue, images and animations. He should know roughly how long it takes to write, stage, pose, render, animate and code - yet this update has been 'one or two weeks away' for a month and a half.

We all enjoy the game, the renders, the writing - I don't even mind if it takes a while.
Just want to see these updates be a little more bloody punctual.

I agree with you mate! I mean given the sheer number of estimates Stoper has thrown at us, he should know enough by now if he will be able to realistically deliver, I would rather have no estimates and that would sure be more bloody punctual than this!

 

[cakeny]

Mate, that is Stoper. A perfectionist.

Perfect is the enemy of good.

 

[aftvisajoke]

Wait a minute...! He really said that he give at december new chapter of Paola? Because if he did, he clearly lied here to us, that he don't make Paola, until came out two new chapters of JOHN. If it's true, that may be the problem, why we still waiting for JOHN release!

He said he will release Paola in december AFTER finishing JOHN. So he didn't lie he is just really bad with schedules. Paola is also going to be late.

 

[Kaidman]

guys can we not call the creator a liar just because they ran into unforeseen problems in the rendering of the game and didn't they say that they would give access to the update of paola to those patrons of december even if the game dropped after december

 

[Geko1711]

guys can we not call the creator a liar just because they ran into unforeseen problems in the rendering of the game and didn't they say that they would give access to the update of paola to those patrons of december even if the game dropped after december

He has had "unexpected" rendering problems for two years! It seems to me that they are not so much "unexpected"

 

[Mariano95]

I don't consider Stoper a "patrons milker", that's an adjective I would rather use for others devs.
I agree with Maviarab on the "no patreon no complain" philosophy but on the other hand I agree more with gingersweetgirl.
Thanks to this forum we are able to discover new games and developers, it's a good way to advertising and let people know you and your work.
I'm a patreon of a couple of some devs that lately let me down for a lot of reasons: content, delays, excuses, long absences and some rude answers to polite questions from other patrons. I'm looking for a new dev and Stoper might be at the top of the list, but then there are these huge delays (release an update 1/2 week after is not a big problem for me), questionable content: cheating /corruption/ntr/swinging tags and then Jess ia having sex just with her husband or having fun with the neighbour's wife, some times in his posts is like he doesn't have a lot of motivation, ...
If this is just a hobby is fine, but then you should write a nice post where you explain your philosophy like the dev of Tentacular: "Hey kid, I'm a zoo clown. Now buy a giraffe or go to hell". At least people will know how to behave.

 

[OllisNews]

I agree with that. Of course, there is a certain obligation to people who have made their contribution to Patreon. To everyone else, they probably have nothing to report! love greetings .... HC.

 

[umby]

accept it, He is PERFECTIONIST
LMAO

I don't consider Stoper a "patrons milker", that's an adjective I would rather use for others devs.
I agree with Maviarab on the "no patreon no complain" philosophy but on the other hand I agree more with gingersweetgirl.
Thanks to this forum we are able to discover new games and developers, it's a good way to advertising and let people know you and your work.
I'm a patreon of a couple of some devs that lately let me down for a lot of reasons: content, delays, excuses, long absences and some rude answers to polite questions from other patrons. I'm looking for a new dev and Stoper might be at the top of the list, but then there are these huge delays (release an update 1/2 week after is not a big problem for me), questionable content: cheating /corruption/ntr/swinging tags and then Jess ia having sex just with her husband or having fun with the neighbour's wife, some times in his posts is like he doesn't have a lot of motivation, ...
If this is just a hobby is fine, but then you should write a nice post where you explain your philosophy like the dev of Tentacular: "Hey kid, I'm a zoo clown. Now buy a giraffe or go to hell". At least people will know how to behave.

I personally believe that stoper's intentions are clear. he wants to work with his times but at the same time he wants to create hype

 

[Creeping Death]

I personally believe that stoper's intentions are clear. he wants to work with his times but at the same time he wants to create hype

Hypes are not created by someone, solely by weak people jumping on that train ...

I for myself found a good way to get of those hype trains. When I notice I drool too much for a CGI blonde (or a brunette *wink to Ellie*) I rub one out and you know what? At least for 15 minutes I have my peace

 

[mma456]

I personally believe that stoper's intentions are clear. he wants to work with his times but at the same time he wants to create hype

Nah he doesnt want to create any hype or even any speculation which is pretty evident when he doesnt show any update previews or spoilers and keeps on posting unrelated renders. Why do you think this games thread has no speculation about anything at all? It's because stoper himself doesn't give any clues about what's to come, hence people just keep on waiting months upon months with no info whatsoever.

 

[Creeping Death]

It's because stoper himself doesn't give any clues about what's to come, hence people just keep on waiting months upon months with no info whatsoever.

Reverse psychology ...

 

[✧Darax✧]

Guys.... if we finally want to play this game we are going to have to wait for what it takes, and especially knowing that Stoper is such a perfectionist with his work.
Let's hope he surprises us with this new update.
Darax.

 

[Poser_Voyeur]

So by your judgement it isn't even worth discussing? That he's beyond criticism? This is a forum to discuss games, I don't see any reason why people shouldn't express their frustration.

It's also worth noting that this forum acts as a great advertisement for people's work. I've discovered many new games from this forum that I have gone on to support. But that advertisement is a double edge sword. I would love to support JOHN, but with the terrible development cycles I can't justify it. That is feedback that the Stoper needs to hear, because there's no other way for him to hear it if his Patreon is the only way he receives feedback. He needs to know that he's leaving money on the table. I understand that JOHN "isn't about the money" for him, but that doesn't mean that leaving money on the table is something he would be happy to hear.

Lastly, if it's accurate that there was only one update in 2020, that is absolutely worth discussing and criticizing. If there weren't a laundry list of devs who had development periods stretch out to six months+, a year+, etc, only to ultimately abandon the product, maybe you'd have a point. Are the people who supported Dual Family not allowed to criticize the dev even though he's 2 year's overdue and just decided to relaunch the whole game? When is the cutoff point when criticism for a development cycle isn't warranted?

Speaking personally I don't mind seeing criticism when it is articulated like you did in a reasoned and respectful manner. The problem is that criticism like your is in the minority. Too much criticism is just rude and unfounded - I see too many times people who are nt Patreon supporters (and thus getting their games / VN for free) just criticizing Devs for milking and cheating and lying.

I follow and play several games / VN where the renders are at the top end and thus suffer from slower release schedules. Therefore I see this criticism repeated five or six times, often by the same people but unvariably by posters that don't contribute anything positive in a thread. That get's tiring.

 

[Ice piece]

stoper

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[armion82]

I just don't understand how so many devs are so horrendously bad at estimating release dates for these things.

I've never built a house before, so if you were to ask me for a completion date the day before I start building my first house - I could give you an estimate and it'd probably be way off.
But if I'd already built Seven houses and you asked me to estimate a completion date for the Eighth, and my estimate is still way off - you'd be forgiven for thinking I'm a fucking moron.

Sure the artistic process has hidden depths of meaning and multi-faceted emotions, blah blah blah - Stoper isn't painting with all the colours of the wind here, he's telling a story with a combination of dialogue, images and animations. He should know roughly how long it takes to write, stage, pose, render, animate and code - yet this update has been 'one or two weeks away' for a month and a half.

We all enjoy the game, the renders, the writing - I don't even mind if it takes a while.
Just want to see these updates be a little more bloody punctual.

If that was truth we will never have a project on Kickstarter or Patreon that is late.Guess what even a dev or team with more than 5 games in his belt have a delay after delay.Not to mention Kickstarter where all estimate dates are going off with months or even years(in some cases even 4 years) or never.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Speaking personally I don't mind seeing criticism when it is articulated like you did in a reasoned and respectful manner. The problem is that criticism like your is in the minority. Too much criticism is just rude and unfounded - I see too many times people who are nt Patreon supporters (and thus getting their games / VN for free) just criticizing Devs for milking and cheating and lying.

I follow and play several games / VN where the renders are at the top end and thus suffer from slower release schedules. Therefore I see this criticism repeated five or six times, often by the same people but unvariably by posters that don't contribute anything positive in a thread. That get's tiring.

Let’s be real, we’re talking predominantly of JOHN, and A Wife and Mother.

As was mentioned earlier, I think one of the things that hurts these games (JOHN more so) is the lack of previews; specifically previews to spur discussion and theories. In some of the games I follow, there is a pretty active fan base discussing theories and story related matter. These are largely fed by strategic teaser images and comments from the dev team. I feel like AWAM and JOHN really don’t do nearly as much marketing as these other devs with similar development cycles.

This can contribute to an environment where there is little to talk about...except for how long development is taking. AWAM seems to have a very active fan base that can draw blood from a stone, but it doesn’t seem like JOHN’s fanbase is even given much of a stone to begin with.

 

[mma456]

 

[Spctereus]

"5 days later"
Hey, everyone..

I was going to post the game link today but my cat was running after a cockroach so she pulls the power cable and flipped over it but it didn't plug out, so the cockroach escape and my cat is okay, after the cockroach escape it went inside my ESC key and pressed it so the render cancelled and I have to do it again, I hope I can find the cockroach so I can release the game in February or I'm scared it will get cancel by it again.

Stay safe, and thanks for the support.